Skillful Verbal Action

[clyde]

Regarding “skillful verbal action,” the Buddha taught:

"And how is one made impure in four ways by verbal action? There is the case where a certain person engages in false speech. When he has been called to a town meeting, a group meeting, a gathering of his relatives, his guild, or of the royalty [i.e., a royal court proceeding], if he is asked as a witness, 'Come & tell, good man, what you know': If he doesn't know, he says, 'I know.' If he does know, he says, 'I don't know.' If he hasn't seen, he says, 'I have seen.' If he has seen, he says, 'I haven't seen.' Thus he consciously tells lies for his own sake, for the sake of another, or for the sake of a certain reward. He engages in divisive speech. What he has heard here he tells there to break those people apart from these people here. What he has heard there he tells here to break these people apart from those people there. Thus breaking apart those who are united and stirring up strife between those who have broken apart, he loves factionalism, delights in factionalism, enjoys factionalism, speaks things that create factionalism. He engages in abusive speech. He speaks words that are harsh, cutting, bitter to others, abusive of others, provoking anger and destroying concentration. He engages in idle chatter. He speaks out of season, speaks what isn't factual, what isn't in accordance with the goal, the Dhamma, & the Vinaya, words that are not worth treasuring. This is how one is made impure in four ways by verbal action.

-- from Cunda Kammaraputta Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an...0.176.than.html

Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde

[namtso]

I think you are going to have to just come out and commit yourself to what the point you are making is. You could apply this "skillful verbal action" quote to pretty much any thread on TBV so if you want this to have some real impact you may just want to come out with it.

[clyde]

The Buddha's teachings apply to human beings, not threads.
So, the Buddha's teachings apply to all of us.

Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde

[namtso]

I guess I just don't understand your intention with starting this thread then.

[Starry_Canopy]

I think Clyde is saying that we should not accept as truth the things said here that show the following:

divisive speech
abusive speech
words that are harsh, cutting, bitter to others, abusive of others, provoking anger and destroying concentration

[namtso]

I think Clyde is saying that we should not accept as truth the things said here that show the following:

- Starry_Canopy

I would agree with that. I guess one of the few useful purposes it would serve in engaging the antagonists would be as a mental exercise, i.e. "iron sharpens iron". Kind of like a lawyer learning how to fight a legal case. Otherwise it is just a big pain in the hind end. However I do think that it can sometimes be useful for the uninitiated to see a verbal brawl now and then that can help shed light on various viewpoints. Even if the argument is futile, often times some very good statements can come out into the light. It can require quite an investment in a person's energy though.

The Buddha's teachings apply to human beings, not threads.
So, the Buddha's teachings apply to all of us. - clyde

Threads don't write themselves, we are talking about people.

[clyde]

Namtso;

Yes, my writing style is somewhat “formal”, but that’s comfortable and natural for me.

My intention was to remind all of us that the Buddha, whom many regard as having been an enlightened human being, taught four things regarding communication: avoid lying, avoid divisive speech, avoid harsh speech, and avoid idle chatter. It was not my intention to point to any particular thread(s) or person(s), nor was it intended to stimulate accusing others of unskillful communication.

It was meant as a reminder to me.

Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde