the landscape at the moment of death

[Molly Brogan]

I watched my friend Chris Bernard face his eminent death with love, courage and dignity. While participating in this with him, I wondered, what is the state of mind that death requires of us?

What can we bring to it to ease our own suffering at the moment of death? Should we rage against the dying of the light like Dylan Thomas? Should we reach out for spiritual support, ask forgiveness, say farewell? What do YOU think?

[Michael]

The greatest human achievement, in my view, is to give up one's spirit when the time time is right in confidence, joy and love, knowing that you shall be received in the same way.

This is not a requirement, it is the ideal.

We are our own spiritual support.

There is nothing to forgive unless you wish to seek forgiveness from another.

Say farewell, but don't make a drama out of it.

As in any journey, the focus is on where you are going NOW.

[Avni]

The greatest human achievement, in my view, is to give up one's spirit when the time time is right in confidence, joy and love, knowing that you shall be received in the same way.

Hello Michael,

There has been much written about the experiences which accompany the transition (death) and for those people who have read these accounts, death may be something to be greeted with much enthusiasm, For some, it will be that much awaited spiritual experience which may have passed them by their entire lives. So, I am not sure whether the anticipation and confidence at death, although certainly desirable, could be regarded as the greatest human achievement.

Avni

[Michael]

You cite other people's experiences. They will not be there when you die.

You must ask yourself what is your best case scenario (to couch it in modern language).

And what would you consider the greatest human achievement - compassion, creating fire, numbers, splitting the atom, love? What of all the deeds , conceptions and moralities will you have as you die? None but your own. You will not be thinking about TBV. That is the time of letting go.

[Michael]

My apologies, Avni. Welcome. Thank you for your contribution.

[jufa]

No one here knows about death. All that anyone here knows about is life. If I am wrong, then someone tell me what death looks like before ones dies, and what is the appearance of death beyond the flesh body?

I am not talking about how the body does or does not look when one is dying from a disease, for death takes the babies, the youth, the healthy, so death appears upon all stages of life, and being it is death, it appearance cannot be identified. So one does not know what the landscape of death is.

[schrodinger]

No one here knows about death. So one does not know what the landscape of death is.

How can you speak for everyone else? In any case, you are wrong!

[Michael]

Ah yes.Schrodinger, the old Zen trick of the bamboo pole crisply down upon the head to let in some light! I'm sure Jafa is a lot wiser after that. In any case, you are right! Indeed, how can he speak for anyone else? In which case...?

[schrodinger]

Ah yes.Schrodinger, the old Zen trick of the bamboo pole crisply down upon the head to let in some light! I'm sure Jafa is a lot wiser after that. In any case, you are right! Indeed, how can he speak for anyone else? In which case...?

I only speak for myself, Michael and never make assumptions about what you or Jufa or anyone else knows. I ask questions!

[Michael]

To state that someone else is wrong is not to speak for yourself.
I think what you are trying to say is that in stating he is wrong you are speaking of - out of - yourself, and therefore saying that in your subjective experience, as distinct from belief, Jufa is wrong. Which is also, in my subjective experience, true. :)

[jufa]

schrodinger Quote:
Originally Posted by jufa
No one here knows about death. So one does not know what the landscape of death is.

How can you speak for everyone else? In any case, you are wrong!

Michael Ah yes.Schrodinger, the old Zen trick of the bamboo pole crisply down upon the head to let in some light! I'm sure Jafa is a lot wiser after that. In any case, you are right! Indeed, how can he speak for anyone else? In which case...?

schrodinger Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael
Ah yes.Schrodinger, the old Zen trick of the bamboo pole crisply down upon the head to let in some light! I'm sure Jafa is a lot wiser after that. In any case, you are right! Indeed, how can he speak for anyone else? In which case...?

I only speak for myself, Michael and never make assumptions about what you or Jufa or anyone else knows. I ask questions!

Michael To state that someone else is wrong is not to speak for yourself.
I think what you are trying to say is that in stating he is wrong you are speaking of - out of - yourself, and therefore saying that in your subjective experience, as distinct from belief, Jufa is wrong. Which is also, in my subjective experience, true.

If I am wrong, then either of you tell me what it is to die, and what happens at the moment of death, and what is going on after one leaves this parenthesis of living. Simple as that.

If you have not experienced death, you don't know nothing about it. And I'm talking about death like that of M. Jackson, J.F.K.

schrodinger, Michael, tell me what happened when you died, and they drained the blood from you body, and they put you in a casket, and closed the lid, and placed you in the ground. Come on, tell me what do you know about that?

[Michael]

schrodinger Quote:





If I am wrong, then either of you tell me what it is to die, and what happens at the moment of death, and what is going on after one leaves this parenthesis of living. Simple as that.

If you have not experienced death, you don't know nothing about it. And I'm talking about death like that of M. Jackson, J.F.K.

schrodinger, Michael, tell me what happened when you died, and they drained the blood from you body, and they put you in a casket, and closed the lid, and placed you in the ground. Come on, tell me what do you know about that?

Jufa, you just gotta be there. But I'll tell you this, death itself is not as bad as people usually imagine. Mostly it's your own fear that makes things difficult. Of course the more difficult or surprising the circumstances of your death, the more difficult it can be to have calm and recall as you die.

[jufa]

Jufa, you just gotta be there. But I'll tell you this, death itself is not as bad as people usually imagine. Mostly it's your own fear that makes things difficult. Of course the more difficult or surprising the circumstances

Michael, isn't that what I said when I stated if you haven't experienced it, you don't know anything about it.

Who that is alive, inclusive of you, myself, and schrodinger have been there? I speak for all who are alive when I state broadly categorically

No one here knows about death. All that anyone here knows about is life. If I am wrong, then someone tell me what death looks like before ones dies, and what is the appearance of death beyond the flesh body?

I am not talking about how the body does or does not look when one is dying from a disease, for death takes the babies, the youth, the healthy, so death appears upon all stages of life, and being it is death, it appearance cannot be identified. So one does not know what the landscape of death is.

Answer the question will give evidence of whether I am right or wrong, which you nor schrodinger have done. And you know, abscent evidence, is evidence abscent.

I speak for all who are alive when I state broadly categorically in saying what I said, and said I don't, is basura unless you can answer the questions.