Health Care Bills - News

[Ron-the-Elder]

House Version: http://news.google.com/news?q=House+of+Representatives+Health+Care+Bill&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=OmgeS4DePILZlAeLkbGSDA&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQsQQwAA

Senate Version: http://news.google.com/news?q=United+States+Senate+Health+Care+Bill&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=wmgeS4HtOJSOlAf04KGJDA&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQsQQwAA

[Ron-the-Elder]

House Version: http://news.google.com/news?q=House+of+Representatives+Health+Care+Bill&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=OmgeS4DePILZlAeLkbGSDA&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQsQQwAA

Senate Version: http://news.google.com/news?q=United+States+Senate+Health+Care+Bill&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=wmgeS4HtOJSOlAf04KGJDA&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQsQQwAA

Seems like we should all be familar with these and how each version will affect our society.

Any thoughts or conclusions?

[Ron-the-Elder]

Seems like we should all be familar with these and how each version will affect our society.

Any thoughts or conclusions?



Abortion Funding:

From purely a Buddhist perspective the issue regarding abortion funding seems clear: "Cause no harm to sentient beings." This topic has been discussed ad-nauseum on Buddhist boards with the inevitable conclusion that conception is a karmic consequence, fetuses are sentient, and The First Precept is designed to prevent suffering, which even the mere discussion of the topic of abortion causes a plenty.

Engaged Buddhism on the other hand is most effectively focused on loving-kindness and compassion with mental equanimity no matter which side any given politcal activist or religiostic supports: pro-abortion/pro-choice, or pro-life/anti-choice.

Loving-kindness and compassion are apex considerations since making decisions regarding the life and death of a sentient being and/or the health consequences of birthing on a mother-to-be is fraught with suffering, stress, and disatisfaction no matter what your political or religious view is being considered.

Engaged Buddhist's therefore are wise to focus on how their intentional actions can be of benefit to all is a worthy priority and reflect thoroughly upon the consequences of their actions upon others and upon themselves. Education as to the means by which suffering, stress, and disatisfaction can be alleviated is to be considered and reflected upon foremost, most productive, and most worthy of an engaged Buddhist's efforts.

The Public Option:

My personal preference is for a combination of local volunteer and professional management of health-care. For example licensed professionals are needed for medical treatement. Hospital/clinic management is a worthy professional endeavor. Information Technologists will most likely be required to keep computer systems up and running for the purpose of ready access to client/patient records. Ditto for utility, maintenance, engineering, recycling, waste management, and insurance specialists. I am certain there are many other worthy professional positions, which must be employed. But there are also many jobs that can be filled by volunteers.:

1. Retired Persons
2. Students
3. Interns
4. Those willing to work on weekends & spare time
.....even if only for a few hours per week.

Those who have difficulty making a contribution to the insurance pool can work off their debt in assistive/volunteer positions such as is done in health food cooperatives.

All of these folks can be of worthy assistance and help to keep health-care costs down and health-care available to all of our citizens.

[Michael]

The Public Option:

My personal preference is for a combination of local volunteer and professional management of health-care. For example licensed professionals are needed for medical treatement. Hospital/clinic management is a worthy professional endeavor. Information Technologists will most likely be required to keep computer systems up and running for the purpose of ready access to client/patient records. Ditto for utility, maintenance, engineering, recycling, waste management, and insurance specialists. I am certain there are many other worthy professional positions, which must be employed. But there are also many jobs that can be filled by volunteers.:

1. Retired Persons
2. Students
3. Interns
4. Those willing to work on weekends & spare time
.....even if only for a few hours per week.

Those who have difficulty making a contribution to the insurance pool can work off their debt in assistive/volunteer positions such as is done in health food cooperatives.

All of these folks can be of worthy assistance and help to keep health-care costs down and health-care available to all of our citizens.

While this is very worthy, it fails to look at the larger issue of the nature of healthcare today, while tacitly, if unintentionally, giving support to a system that exploits human fraility and suffering to make a profit.

I/3 of deaths in the Western World are caused by medical intervention. Health care costs rise to pay for more and more sophisticated drugs with equally sophisticated side effects. Meanwhile virtually nobody in the medical profession observes best practise for the prescription of antibiotics. This requires first identifying the bacillous responsible for the infection and then prescribing the appropriate antibiotic. As a result we have resistant strains which are running rampant, particularly in hospitals.

The issue of swine flu vaccinations is a further example of medical, govermental and societal failure to look reality in the face. The fact is that the vaccine has statistically been proven not to protect the healthcare workers, young and others who have given priority to receive it. The reason is simple, the templates for most biological matter are laid in DNA which is highly stable. Swine flu is composed of RHA which is highly unstable. The vaccine cannot keep up with its rate of change. Yet billions are being spent worldwide on this worthless vaccine. Just looking at that one would save the American tax payer a whole lot of bucks.


Another costly issue is that more and more people are being kept alive by machines, the cost of which is thousands of dollars weekly per body. An extension of this is that old people with alzhimers and no sense of who, what or where they are are kept alive, often in dreadful conditions and in great physical discomfort to make profit for some and to salve the conscience of others.

These are just a few of the top line negative issues which infect both the healthcare industry and the society at large. Many of the issues are ones we don't want to address because we find them too painful, difficult and complex to address. If they were to be responsibly addressed billions could be saved. And many, many people would live healthier, happier. more informed and more responsible lives

Finally, I will put my hand up. When I no longer know who or what or where I am, please kill me. I would not wish my body to suffer the soulless ignomity, the society to bear the cost and the medical fraternity to make the profit.

[Ron-the-Elder]

Finally, I will put my hand up. When I no longer know who or what or where I am, please kill me. I would not wish my body to suffer the soulless ignomity, the society to bear the cost and the medical fraternity to make the profit.

Hi, Michael. I am only responding to your opinions and statements because you asked me to. Otherwise, in this country, we allow all persons to speak their peace ( in the appropriate forum ) and then voice our decisions in the voting booth.

P.S. I agree with many of your observations, but not all.

[Michael]

You actually haven't. I was genuinly interested in what the Buddist view of such complex issues might be because I myself find them extremely difficult. But I think enough has been said.

[Ron-the-Elder]

Latest links with regard to progress of U.S. Health Care bill:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Health+Care+Bill&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBR_en

Since some are interested in opinions, my observation is in agreement with the following quote:

"Progress. Not perfection!"

[sonrisa]

this so-called healthcare bill sucks.

the public option has been dropped.

lowering Medicare to age 55 has been dropped. Infact healthcare for seniors is being cut across the board.

allowing folx to get their medicenes from Canada has been dropped (Merry Christmas to Big Pharma!)

everybody will be forced to buy crappy health insurance whether they can afford to or not, iow, if the choice is between food & health insurance, or rent & health insurance, if you don't choose the insurance you are slapped with a $1000 fine, which you probably can't afford either. Romneycare on steroids.

here's my plan. I simply won't pay the fine (hey you can't squeeze money from a turnip) & they can throw me in jail. Then- viola!- I'll get free health care! :P

[Ron-the-Elder]

this so-called healthcare bill sucks.

the public option has been dropped.

:P

Well, actually we don't yet have a U.S. Bill. What we have is The House of Representatives version and The U.S. Senate version. The two must be integrated and voted upon before we have a bill.

My take is let's get something first. Assuring that all citizens must buy into the system is a start, and there are provisions to help those who "cannot" pay rather than those who don't want to pay.

Here is a personal example as to why this above move is beneficial: My one and only son, 22 at the time, when he was competing in The Olympic trials after college, he chose not to buy health or hospitalization insurance. The reason was that he wanted money for beer, gasoline, auto payments and snowboarding equipment before he wanted insurance. When his mother, my deceased wife, found out she bought insurance for him. About a year after the 1998 Olympics he tore both ACL's in both of his knees and required surgery.

Progress, not perfection is my motto. Let's get something on the books now and make it perfect later, perhaps when we can afford it better. Best to concentrate on shutting down/ending the wars in which U.S. is participating first. As Buddha stated very clearly: "Violence leads only to more violence."

Perhaps we can also ask for some foreign aid from those countries we have been supporting for the last two hundred years as well. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Japan, France, Great Brittain, and most of South America, Mexico, Indonesia, Asia and Africa come to mind. For example some of the wealthier magnates, kingdoms, and otherwise to be described nations could perhaps find it in their hearts to start a public insurance cooperative for the poor and needy in our country, and perhaps the socialist countries like Russia, Cuba, France, Canada, and Great Brittain could send us a few hundred of their finest interns that we are told about by Michael Moore to staff them for a few years grattis.

I left out Red China because they are mostly already our landlord and banker at this point, and of course WalMart is their landord and banker, so I guess as our country's largest retail employers everything financially comes out close to even. Most working U.S. citizens with 401K's own WalMart stock whether they know it or not. :thumbsup:

My only real regret is U.S. Congress not letting all insurance companies compete across state and even international lines. This really bothers me, but so does all the corruption in The U.S. Congress and Senate. I saw last night on CBS News that some sixty congressmen jailed for corruption are still pulling-down six digit pensions paid for by us citizens. Being "on the take" seems pandemic with all politicians, though. But we citizens don't have to be foolish about it.

Anyway, enough babbling! Just some thoughts from a wayward and silly mind.:think:

Time to meditate re. loving-kindness and compassion beginning with myself, you, all members of this board, family, friends, neighbors, fellow citizens, members of the world community, the poor, the diseased, all suffering sentient beings, especially those dying and injured in the war-torn countries, and yes........even politicians. :shakehead:

[sonrisa]

the problem is these bills are a Christmas present to Big Pharma & the insurance industry, NOT to the American people.

many people will be forced to choose between rent & health insurance, or groceries & health insurance, & if they don't choose the insurance they will be slapped with a +$1ooo fine (sliding scale), which they probably won't be able to afford either. This is draconian. It is also a recipe for civil unrest. As I understand it, it may also be unConstitutional, so hopefully a couple of class action suits can get this monstrocity struck down.

don't get me wrong, I truly believe we need decent healthcare in this country. That's healthcare not Romneycare. What is so damn difficult about expanding Medicaid & Medicare to include everybody in this country? What is so goddam hard about that?

speaking of Medicaid, do you know that Walmart shows it's employees how to fill out Medicaid forms?

so your son was in the Olympics? cool! :) what sport? any medals?

[Ron-the-Elder]

....don't get me wrong, I truly believe we need decent healthcare in this country. That's healthcare not Romneycare. What is so damn difficult about expanding Medicaid & Medicare to include everybody in this country? What is so goddam hard about that?

speaking of Medicaid, do you know that Walmart shows it's employees how to fill out Medicaid forms?

so your son was in the Olympics? cool! :) what sport? any medals?

What is difficult about expanding Medicaid and Medicare is that congress is lobbied by the insurance industry, and there would be little pork for the membership to bring home to the folks down home. Complexity leads to more opportunity for corruption......that's about it. I have no idea why it wouldn't be better to form a North American Health Alliance with Canada and Mexico as we did with NAFTA.

Ron-the-Younger was and is a half-pipe specialist. He didn't medal, but competed in the finals, which was no small consolation. Unfortunately he fell during the second phase of the finals. His fellow U.S. Competitor, Ross Powers, placed 3rd with a Bronze medal that year, and took first place with a Gold in 2002.

We were just with him in Vermont for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. He has a beautiful home, a lovely wife, and an almost two year old future Olympian.

Happy Holidays. Don't forget your H1N1 shots. :thumbsup:

[sonrisa]

What is difficult about expanding Medicaid and Medicare is that congress is lobbied by the insurance industry, and there would be little pork for the membership to bring home to the folks down home. Complexity leads to more opportunity for corruption......that's about it.

-- exactly. Don't forget Big Pharma. Like I said earlier, these bills are a Christmas present to Big Pharma & the insurance industry


Ron--I have no idea why it wouldn't be better to form a North American Health Alliance with Canada and Mexico as we did with NAFTA.

-- NAFTA sucks. All the decent jobs have literally gone South- of the Border, that is. However a helathcare system like what the Canadians have would be great- & too much like right, so don't hold your breath for it


Ron-- Ron-the-Younger was and is a half-pipe specialist. He didn't medal, but competed in the finals, which was no small consolation. Unfortunately he fell during the second phase of the finals. His fellow U.S. Competitor, Ross Powers, placed 3rd with a Bronze medal that year, and took first place with a Gold in 2002.

We were just with him in Vermont for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. He has a beautiful home, a lovely wife, and an almost two year old future Olympian.

- I'm sorry he didn't make it all the way, but I'm glad you had a nice Christmas with him & his family :xmas:

Ron--Happy Holidays. Don't forget your H1N1 shots. :thumbsup:

-- can't afford it :blink: