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the_aphid
21st July 2009, 01:40 PM
A string of words manifested in my mind today while I was at work:

The seed of sentience sprouts into the light of day before it begins to secure itself by the clinging of its roots.

I was unsure whether or not this was something that I had heard or read somewhere before, or if it was something unique, likely initiated by the conversations over in the Buddhism forum, so I entered the entire line into google, and this is what was yielded (http://www.google.ca/search?q=the+seed+of+sentience+sprouts+into+the+li ght+of+day+before+it+begins+to+secure+itself+by+th e+clinging+of+its+roots&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a).

Within the second result, The Non-Dualistic Teachings of Sri Nisargadatta (http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:FQ5i6KiISMIJ:www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/H%2520-%2520World%2520Religions%2520and%2520Poetry/World%2520Religions/From%2520the%2520Indian%2520Tradition/Teachers%2520from%2520the%2520Indian%2520Tradition/Nisargadatta%2520Maharaj/Teachings%2520by%2520Nisargadatta%2520Maharaj/Teachings%2520by%2520Nisargadatta%2520Maharaj.pdf+ the+seed+of+sentience+sprouts+into+the+light+of+da y+before+it+begins+to+secure+itself+by+the+clingin g+of+its+roots&hl=en&gl=ca), I found this paragraph:Understand that the consciousness has arisen spontaneously in you, the Absolute. Once you are conscious of yourself you know you exist and you love this beingness; you do not want this beingness to depart from you, and it is this that makes you strive all day until sleep overcomes you, in order to keep the beingness satisfied. Then the guru tells you the true state of affairs, that this consciousness which you love so much is only an illusion. It is the basic cause of all unhappiness and your true state is before this consciousness arose. Understand this thoroughly, intuitively, beyond all words and concepts, but also know that if this understanding is just something happening in the intellect it will be of no use to you, because it will be at the level of phenomenal consciousness... concepts... and that consciousness is nothing but illusion. Whatever you know is imperfect, fraudulent. Go where you do not know. Recede into the source, into no form, no beingness; there you are perfect. Whatever you witness will not remain with you; it is imperfect. The one who recognizes the imperfect as imperfect is perfect; that one is complete in himself.

Have firm faith in the words of the guru. Nothing, nobody existed prior to you. When your beingness appeared then everything appeared. Understand that first moment when you understood that you are, the point at which everything arose. The source and the end are the same point. In the spiritual hierarchy going from the grossest to the subtlest, you are the subtlest. The very base is you, full and complete, without need for knowledge of who you are. Suddenly the space-like, all-pervading 'I amness' appears. Spontaneously, uncalled for, the beingness has come and is being witnessed by you, the Absolute. Later, this space-like 'I amness' disappears and the beingness goes back into oblivion. You remain in the eternal state, your true unchanging state. Prior to your beingness, nothing was... but you, the Absolute. After the beingness comes, still all there is is you, the Absolute. Without the beingness you, the Absolute, don't know you are. You are without any stigma, not covered by anything. You are the Paramatman, the core Self, the highest Self, the Absolute, subtler than space, beyond consciousness, beyond the 'I amness'.

In meditation, let your beingness merge in your Self, the non-dual state. Remain still. Do not struggle to come out of the mud of your concepts, you will only go deeper. Simply abide in the stillness. The Self has no occasion to say it exists; it is in eternity. When there is no body-mind there can be no practice; only the stillness of the Self remains.
I had no knowledge of this guru, Nisargdatta Maharaj (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisargadatta_Maharaj#Quotes_of_Nisargdatta_Maharaj ), until today. It is interesting how sometimes you can tumble and roll into insight. :)

Akamu
22nd July 2009, 01:50 AM
Very cool, I like it! :thumbsup:

Thomas Knierim
22nd July 2009, 11:10 AM
He is quite famous. Most people who looked into the Advaita Vedanta would probably recognise his same. His life and his teaching (video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsH6y0Y1ni4) were both amazingly simple, as he spent most of his life as a shopkeeper in Bombay, and he taught "looking into the self". I almost brought myself to reading I am that (http://www.amazon.com/I-Am-That-Talks-Nisargadatta/dp/0893860220/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248231124&sr=8-1), but decided that rather than reading 550 pages of "pointers" I better spend the time with meditation. :) The relationship with the Buddhist teaching is quite peculiar. Obviously, the suggested method is not the same. Nisargadatta says: "get to the bottom of the self", whereas the Buddha said: "don't bother with it". Different methods, same goal, I suppose. The philosophical views are quite different, however. Most of what is considered central to the Advaita, especially Brahman and the Brahman/Atman identity, is denied by Buddhism.

Cheers, Thomas

the_aphid
22nd July 2009, 12:17 PM
Most of what is considered central to the Advaita, especially Brahman and the Brahman/Atman identity, is denied by Buddhism.But is there not a striking similarity to the teaching of tathāgatagarbha? That beneath all the aggregates that create the illusion of self, there is actually the eternal, luminous Buddha Self?

Thomas Knierim
22nd July 2009, 01:42 PM
But is there not a striking similarity to the teaching of tathāgatagarbha? That beneath all the aggregates that create the illusion of self, there is actually the eternal, luminous Buddha Self?

I think that is a somewhat "dangerous" interpretation. The tathāgatagarbha understood as a Buddhic self essentially amounts to claiming Atman for the tathāgatagarbha. This is a minority view in Mahayana and it is rejected -or rather it doesn't crop up in the first place- in Theravada.

Cheers, Thomas

the_aphid
22nd July 2009, 04:55 PM
I think that is a somewhat "dangerous" interpretation. The tathāgatagarbha understood as a Buddhic self essentially amounts to claiming Atman for the tathāgatagarbha. This is a minority view in Mahayana and it is rejected -or rather it doesn't crop up in the first place- in Theravada.I see.:unsure: I must admit though, I have come to a particular appreciation of this view - or at the very least I have a hard time seeing much of a difference between them. I mean, essentially it would imply that our discriminated 'selves' which we perceive are illusions, based on the aggregates and our differentiated experiences, etc. (this much is the general anatman notion in Buddhism, correct?). However, underneath it all, all sentient beings possess the same potential for liberation, Buddha nature, and this is because we are all the same Self (the Absolute as Nisargadatta refers to it).

You feel it is "dangerous" because people could misunderstand, and come to assert that their perceived self, their egos, are in fact this Buddhic Self?

Thomas Knierim
23rd July 2009, 10:18 AM
With "dangerous" I meant an interpretation that leaves the doctrinal ground of Buddhism. Perhaps I should have called it "fringe area" interpretation. Buddhism denies any notion of self, including the one postulated by the Advaita Vedanta. If I were diligent (not today:)) I could produce the suttas in which the differentiation of an illusionary ordinary self and a real "higher" self is denied. The word tathāgatagarbha means something like "embryo Buddha" and it denotes the potentiality for Buddhahood. It does not imply a real higher self or that tathāgata is atman.

Personally, I am a little torn on the issue. Both Buddhism and the Advaita are great teachings. Either of them can lead to enlightenment. Until I will find out for myself, I remember the old saying that "a great truth (atman) is one whose opposite (anatman) is also a great truth". Though that notion has been denied by the Buddha, too. :p

Cheers, Thomas

j000han
24th July 2009, 08:14 AM
But is there not a striking similarity to the teaching of tathāgatagarbha? That beneath all the aggregates that create the illusion of self, there is actually the eternal, luminous Buddha Self?

H-Ear-TH
a-PHI-d

i n-dI-PHI-duaL-i-T-Y
Sr. i N isar-ga da TTa Ma-hara-J

S- (I) am-Sa-Ra

g-UR-u

T-hera?-?vAdA

OMNg nAMo
wHat does ThaT mean on a Q-UAM-T-UNG level?
Here is a clue how to find out:
Just call it (a) BullsHit
and
then ask wheter if it is true or IT is not TR-U-E.
Yep, it’s
crYpToZen
so….
it all goes into the NOOsPhere
and then…….
regards
johan:)