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coberst
1st December 2008, 08:21 PM
Our Ignorance is no Accident

One technique used to maintain the slave economy in the Antebellum South was to outlaw any form of behavior that allowed the slave to become learned. It was necessary that the slave not only be illiterate but that s/he be isolated as much as possible from the world around them; if they knew little of the outside world they were more easily confined, constrained, and controlled.

Ignorance in the free white community and the black slave community in Antebellum South was no accident. I suspect the depth of ignorance within the American population today is, likewise, no accident.

Potlatch was a common characteristic of primitive cultural practice and ritual. Potlatch ceremonies were a common practice in the winter months because the summer months were busy times for gathering wealth for the family and community.

Quickie from wiki:
“Sponsors of a potlatch give away many useful items such as food, blankets, worked ornamental mediums of exchange called "coppers", and many other various items. In return, they earned prestige. To give a potlatch enhanced one’s reputation and validated social rank, the rank and requisite potlatch being proportional, both for the host and for the recipients by the gifts exchanged. Prestige increased with the lavishness of the potlatch, the value of the goods given away in it…The status of any given family is raised not by who has the most resources, but by who distributes the most resources. The hosts demonstrate their wealth and prominence through giving away goods.”

In primitive communities social life was a continuous dialogue of gift giving and reciprocation. When there was food there was food for all when there was scarcity all shared in this scarcity. The successful hunter kept the least desirable parts of the kill for himself and gave the most desirable to the community. “This was the core truth in the myth of primitive communism.”

Primitive man was judged not by the magnitude of his accumulated wealth but by the magnitude of his shared wealth.

Present day economic theories are of a self-regulating system of markets. Such a social theory did not come from history. We are taught that this practice of private property and gain are the natural order of human social evolution; such is not the case. “Gain and profit made in exchange never before played an important part in human economy.”

Adam Smith theorized that the division of labor results from man’s “propensity to barter, truck, and exchange one thing for another…This phrase was later to yield the concept of the Economic Man.” This observation represents a misreading of the past and a great fallacy that has led us into today’s culture of human social behavior becoming dominated by economic ideology.

We must discard some 19th century prejudices underlying the hypothesis of primitive man’s predilection for gainful employment. The bias that caused Smith and his generation to incorrectly view primitive man induced succeeding generations to lose interest in early man.

“The tradition of the classical economics, who attempted to base the law of the market on the alleged propensities of man in the state of nature, was replaced by an abandonment of all interest in the cultures of “uncivilized” man as irrelevant to an understanding of the problems of our age.”

Anthropologists inform us today that there has been a remarkable sameness for all societies throughout earlier history and that sameness is “that man’s economy, as a rule, is submerged in his social relationships. He does not act so as to safeguard his individual interest in the possession of material goods; he acts so as to safeguard his social standing, his social assets…the economic system will be run on noneconomic motives…All social obligations are reciprocal.”

Our present economic system of acquisition with little or no regard for the rest of society is not our naturally evolved culture. This is a totally artificial system that we have been raised to recognize as a natural phenomenon. Our ignorance of many things is maintained by those who manage to control social policy and especially our educational systems.

We are maintained in a semi sophisticated state of ignorance in order to prevent us from critically evaluating our institutions and changing them in a manner that is less alienating to our nature.

Quotes from “The Great Transformation: The Political and Economic Origins of Our Time” by Karl Polanyi

scameter
2nd December 2008, 12:29 PM
I think that every person is inherently ignorant, from birth, of any knowledge beyond instincts, which is why life is a mystery for us at least somewhat throughout our lives, regardless of our individual or cultural wisdom. The reason why societies tend to be for the most part ignorant, and this includes all societies throughout history in terms of both knowledge and wisdom, is because most people find it easier to only have adequette knowledge to function in their role in society. That is the only reason that modern people tend to have more knowledge than people in the past, because now, it requires more knowledge to function; not because they are actually more intelligent. Babies haven't changed in millennia, and neither, really, has civilization, because it is composed of people. Wisdom is an individual, personal endeavour which has never had widespread popularity.

coberst
2nd December 2008, 07:49 PM
Wisdom is an individual, personal endeavour which has never had widespread popularity.

We can no longer afford the luxury of ignorance and apathy because we have created a technology that places great power in the hands of a few.

scameter
3rd December 2008, 03:38 PM
Unfortunately, ignorance and apathy are easier, and as long as the normal people can be safe while still being ignorant and apathetic, they aren't concerned. But, how would you suggest normal people to act?

coberst
3rd December 2008, 06:04 PM
Unfortunately, ignorance and apathy are easier, and as long as the normal people can be safe while still being ignorant and apathetic, they aren't concerned. But, how would you suggest normal people to act?

Normal people are no lomger safe in their ignorance and apathy.

For five years I have been attempting to transmit what I consider to be an important message for adults. The message is ‘Get a Life—Get an Intellectual Life’. The medium for my message is the Internet discussion forum.

I generally transmit my message not directly but in a nuanced manner by trying to allow my audience to become conscious (focus attention) on what an intellectual life is about and why having this hobby, of an intellectual life, is important.

I have lived the life that I am trying to convince others to embrace. My experience, resulting from having this hobby of an intellectual life, has convinced me that acquiring such a hobby is very beneficial for the individual and for the community.

The Internet is a medium with much but little realized potential for intellectual matters. It appears that most people have given up on utilizing the Internet for rational discourse. It, the Internet, has proven quite useful for more emotional activity especially partisan political rants.

I think that Internet discussion forums offer an opportunity for many of us to nourish in others a consciousness of important concepts that have received little exposure in most lives. I have many thousands of hits on my posts per month. There are many forums with many readers that provide an infinite opportunity to deliver useful messages.

schrodinger
3rd December 2008, 08:29 PM
Normal people are no lomger safe in their ignorance and apathy.



The Internet is a medium with much but little realized potential for intellectual matters. It appears that most people have given up on utilizing the Internet for rational discourse. It, the Internet, has proven quite useful for more emotional activity especially partisan political rants.

I think that Internet discussion forums offer an opportunity for many of us to nourish in others a consciousness of important concepts that have received little exposure in most lives. I have many thousands of hits on my posts per month. There are many forums with many readers that provide an infinite opportunity to deliver useful messages.

I don’t share your enthusiasm for the Internet as being the solution to mankind’s ignorance. In fact, it is quite the opposite! These days, no one seems to think he needs to learn anything, as “information” is readily available at the touch of a keyboard or the click of a mouse. Unfortunately, a vast proportion of the “information” is crack pot opinions and ideas that have never received a proper peer review, and are published on the Internet under the guise of “freedom of expression”.
For some people, it may be a mind awakening experience to absorb many different points of view, including nonsensical ones, but for many it leads to confusion and apathy towards real learning experience. Fortunately, there are web sites that are peer reviewed and have the bull-shit filtered out, but access is limited to a select few who are already members of this or that association. The vast majority of websites are unfiltered and there is much more crap being dispensed than useful information.

coberst
3rd December 2008, 10:03 PM
I don’t share your enthusiasm for the Internet as being the solution to mankind’s ignorance. In fact, it is quite the opposite! These days, no one seems to think he needs to learn anything, as “information” is readily available at the touch of a keyboard or the click of a mouse. Unfortunately, a vast proportion of the “information” is crack pot opinions and ideas that have never received a proper peer review, and are published on the Internet under the guise of “freedom of expression”.
For some people, it may be a mind awakening experience to absorb many different points of view, including nonsensical ones, but for many it leads to confusion and apathy towards real learning experience. Fortunately, there are web sites that are peer reviewed and have the bull-shit filtered out, but access is limited to a select few who are already members of this or that association. The vast majority of websites are unfiltered and there is much more crap being dispensed than useful information.

I do not hold the Internet in high regard when considering matters of intellectual importance. However, I think that could chanage if people who cared about such matters were to engage this great vehicle in an intellectually sophisticated way. Just as Obama changed what can be accomplished on the Internet I think that we could do likewise if there were enough of us willing to try.

scameter
4th December 2008, 02:45 PM
People's foolishness and ignorance (i.e. lack of wisdom and lack of knowledge), especially the former, do not stem from lack of available resources or stimulation. It comes from a lack of motivation within the individual. To modern people, especially Americans, wisdom and learning as seen as "high-falutin'", only for rich and spoiled arrogant people to do who have the time for such trivialities while they're out working. That is the common mentality, from the poor to the rich, of all races and subcultures in this country. And the main reason for this is because America came about in direct opposition to Europe, especially Britain, and because it had such a focus on intelligence and philosophy, we naturally turned against that in favour of practicality and capitalism. I agree that our problem derives from foolishness/ignorance, but providing the means for change in those areas will not necessarily provide the motivation.

coberst
5th December 2008, 09:17 PM
scameter

Our nation (USA) has a strong anti-intellectual bias. I think it is the responsibility for all of us who comprehend this problem to take to task every anti-intellectual statement.

I think that we can motivate adults into becoming self-actualizing self-learners if we make a strong enough effort.

scameter
6th December 2008, 03:23 PM
:lol: Good luck with that then.