Universal Evolution

[the_aphid]

I had a very interesting lucid dream last night that inspired a thought. Could the universe, as we know it, be the product of a string of developing universes? I do not capitalize universe here as I want to make a distinction between one 'world' and another parallel world. All of these, possibly infinite, worlds of existence would constitute the whole Universe.

But with this idea come some necessities. With evolution you have an undirected development of 'survivability' over time. So, if this were true, there would have to be a connection between our current universe and the proceeding universe (assuming there is one), as well as the potential connection between our universe and the one that might follow. Furthermore, they could not be 'identical' as this would disable the possibility for change or adaptation required in evolution. They could be extremely similar with essentially the exact same fundamental physical laws, but with a differing amount of matter and energy. Perhaps growing or shrinking with each 'offspring' as the proceeding universe crunches or rips with more 'energy' than the universe that proceeded it.

So allow me to play around with this idea, and for arguments sake, let's assume our current universe is an example of a universe which is 'well suited for survival', and that it will bring about another universe in time. Which "traits" of our universe would make it well suited? Perhaps its isolation or location in the 'sea of possible universes'? By developing in a way as to not interact with other parallel universes, our universe could increase it's longevity per se. Perhaps it's structure, of a myriad of physical forms that interact in such a phenomenal way?

There is a similarity between the apparent design of life, and the structure of the universe in a whole. Forces and energy that have very specific values and interact in such a way as to allow the phenomenal existence of galaxies, stars, black holes, planets, life, etc. If say, the strong nuclear force was altered, you'd change the entire spectrum of matter, and could perhaps disable the ability for stars to form and burn, fueling nucleosynthesis.

<_<

Well, I'll just leave it at that for now, letting the idea simmer.

[Chan Tiger]

I think Daniel Dennet, an analytic philosopher who makes frequent use of evolutionary theory in his writings, has proposed something very similiar to this idea. As I understand it, black holes act as "seeds" or "spores" for a given universe, and that the natural laws of any given universe develop much the way that an organism's characteristics are formed via natural selection. The universes that are "born" from black holes take on similiar characteristics as the universe from which the black hole originated, akin to hereditary in organisms.

It's an interesting idea, and I find the idea that the universe behaves organically to be a very attractive one. I would go even further and say that it may be possible to link microcosmic evolution (i.e. of organisms) and macrocosmic evolution (of entire universes) via the idea of a holographic reality. By "holographic reality" I mean that the whole of reality is imprinted in each of its parts and vice-versa. The physicist David Bohm describes this theory very elegantly in his book Wholeness and the Implicate Order. More philosophically, this idea is echoed in the "Jeweled Net of Indra" image of Huayan Buddhism and the Alchemical dictum "As Above, so Below."

[the_aphid]

I think Daniel Dennet, an analytic philosopher who makes frequent use of evolutionary theory in his writings, has proposed something very similiar to this idea.Interesting, I'll have to investigate. I am familiar with him from a number of talks he has done for the TED conference.
The physicist David Bohm describes this theory very elegantly in his book Wholeness and the Implicate Order.I will certainly have to read this as well. I recall the Dalai Lama referring to David Bohm in the Universe in a Single Atom as one of his scientific tutors. I also have to agree that it is an attractive idea that I will continue to contemplate for some time. :mellow:

[Akamu]

Unrelated question, the aphid, but was this just a random lucid dream or do you actively incubate them? I only ask because surprisingly few people have lucid dreams or are even aware of their existence. A few years ago, I stumbled upon methods to trigger them at will and have had much success.

On topic: I am very glad you brought this topic up. I have thought about this in the past and, as has been said, it is a very attractive idea. I have always wondered whether we are just smaller parts in some impossibly immense organism (the universe, whatever). I mean there is an entire 'universe' that we can't see at the microscopic and quantum levels so who's to say that we aren't just some quantum level of an even larger system? And, as some Buddhists (and scientists for that matter) have pointed out, our universe may be contained within a larger universe and that one in a larger one still...ad infinitum. The world is really quite interesting isn't it?

[the_aphid]

Unrelated question, the aphid, but was this just a random lucid dream or do you actively incubate them? I only ask because surprisingly few people have lucid dreams or are even aware of their existence. A few years ago, I stumbled upon methods to trigger them at will and have had much success.I haven't had a lot of success, but I have been practicing. Using some of Stephen LaBerge's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_LaBerge) techniques, such as MILD, combined with meditation, I have been having lucid dreams more frequently. Lately I have been going to sleep about an hour earlier, and then I wake up about 2 hours before my normal waking time. I get out of bed, go downstairs for a glass of water, and basically just look out the window and meditate on the illusionary nature of reality for about 20-30 minutes. Then when I go back to bed an I meditate further, concentrating on the fact I will be dreaming soon. The sensations of 'falling asleep consciously' are very strange, and at first I found myself unable to get myself back to sleep. But now, that isn't much of the worry, but rather losing concentration on my task and simply falling asleep and having ordinary dreams for the next couple hours.

What methods do you use if I may ask?
On topic: I am very glad you brought this topic up. I have thought about this in the past and, as has been said, it is a very attractive idea. I have always wondered whether we are just smaller parts in some impossibly immense organism (the universe, whatever). I mean there is an entire 'universe' that we can't see at the microscopic and quantum levels so who's to say that we aren't just some quantum level of an even larger system? And, as some Buddhists (and scientists for that matter) have pointed out, our universe may be contained within a larger universe and that one in a larger one still...ad infinitum. The world is really quite interesting isn't it?Very interesting indeed. I had contemplated similar ideas in the past, but it was the lucid dream that put things in perspective. It became very apparent how natural selection is essentially a fundamental algorithm which can be applied to far more than just biological life.

In the dream I basically disintegrated into the ground below me when I was actually trying to fly. It was kind of like I was shrinking down to the molecular level of the rock I was standing on. I got to thinking about the intrinsic emptiness of the rock, which was something I considered to be comparatively simple to the entire cosmos. It is here that I realized that the intrinsic 'qualifiers' of complixity and simplicity were really as empty as the materials that composed them....all things are equally empty (basically). For some reason, once I realized this I became overwhelmingly convinced that 'natural selection' was the diversifying force of all causally physical existence.

[Akamu]

I haven't had a lot of success, but I have been practicing. Using some of Stephen LaBerge's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_LaBerge) techniques, such as MILD, combined with meditation, I have been having lucid dreams more frequently. Lately I have been going to sleep about an hour earlier, and then I wake up about 2 hours before my normal waking time. I get out of bed, go downstairs for a glass of water, and basically just look out the window and meditate on the illusionary nature of reality for about 20-30 minutes. Then when I go back to bed an I meditate further, concentrating on the fact I will be dreaming soon. The sensations of 'falling asleep consciously' are very strange, and at first I found myself unable to get myself back to sleep. But now, that isn't much of the worry, but rather losing concentration on my task and simply falling asleep and having ordinary dreams for the next couple hours.

What methods do you use if I may ask?

You may. It appears as if we have read the same book (Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming) or, at least, are familiar with the author and his work. Yes, I employ the MILD techniques as well. I think the most helpful tool is keeping a dream journal (you probably already do this) and vowing to yourself to write down every dream you have an every possible detail you can remember. At first this was much harder than it would seem and quite discouraging when the average person rarely remembers their dreams in any great detail. Anyway, this allowed me to begin to get to know my dreams on a personal level. I noticed patterns, themes, certain "dream signs" etc. that were always common throughout them. That, combined with making sure I contemplate the "dream-like" nature of waking life several times throughout the day, began yielding marvelous results. The waking up from sleep and staying awake for a short period of time that you described works very well. I also find that going to bed before 11pm and getting a full night's rest greatly increases my chances. And also afternoon naps have an almost 100% success rate for me. I also have a book on Tibetan Dream Yoga which helps out a lot...it is basically everything that La Berge states within his own work, but it has some refreshing ways to look at lucid dreaming and interests me due to my background in Buddhism.

Nice to meet another oneironaut :thumbsup:

[j000han]

I find the idea that the universe behaves organically to be a very attractive one. I would go even further and say that it may be possible to link microcosmic evolution (i.e. of organisms) and macrocosmic evolution (of entire universes) via the idea of a holographic reality. By "holographic reality" I mean that the whole of reality is imprinted in each of its parts and vice-versa. The physicist David Bohm describes this theory very elegantly in his book Wholeness and the Implicate Order. More philosophically, this idea is echoed in the "Jeweled Net of Indra" image of Huayan Buddhism and the Alchemical dictum "As Above, so Below."
These were some thought i had yesterday and when i read this thread i thought i might as well share them:)

I find this the most charming hypothesis that i have come across.
This universe is fastly more alive then is generally believed.
I think it is one giant organic structure dead matter is a myth.
It will take a while before morfogenesis can be tied into this hypothesis,
but I’m quite convinced that that well could be a next step in further comprehension.
Any process of replication seems to be happening according to a preexisting matrix.
This matrix that provides the encoding of the ‘replicant’ can vary in complexity.
The patch theory of darkmatter providing the compensation for the gap in the calculation
of the mass that is nessesary to keep the galaxy a more or less coherent structure could be
done away with (perhaps) if the assumption that there exists a ‘force’ that is an intrinsic property of the nucleus and electron is rconsidered as a force that through and through the entire universe fucntions as an algorithm that ‘aims’ at maximal coherence.


:loveyou:

[the_aphid]

Just read this tonight, and thought it was a very interesting concept. George Chaplain suggests that what physicists believe to be black holes are actually dark energy stars. (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:bq4tJ3xY680J:arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0503200+dark+energy+star&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=ca&client=firefox-a) Formed at the centers of every galaxy in the universe are believed to be 'supermassive black holes', and it is within these galaxies that dark matter is believed to 'cluster' at it's highest density. Now, because my understanding of theoretical physics is not very refined I could be wrong here, but basically I think what he suggests is that black holes could be composed of dense dark matter, and emitting dark energy, analogous to the way that stars are composed of hydrogen and helium and emitting light. This seems reasonable since the universe appears to be accelerating, and dark energy is believed to be the culprit.

He goes into much more detail that is unfortunately beyond me, talking of the nature of superfluids and the speed of sound, and it's relation to photons falling through the event horizon of black holes...:think: but anyways, I thought it would be worth mentioning in this thread.

[Chan Tiger]

...dead matter is a myth....


I agree with this. At the very least it must be admitted that the concept of "dead matter" is at least as much of an assumption as "live (i.e. conscious) matter"----after all, the only sort of existence we're directly familiar with is conscious existence. Given that, I don't think it's a total stretch to presume some form of experience is as fundamental to existence as matter.

Alfred North Whitehead, who is probably the most underrated and neglected philosophers of the 20th century, called the idea of dead matter "vacuous actuality" and argued against it as a holdover from the days of Cartesian dualism.

[the_aphid]

So, I'd like to correct my interpretation of Chaplain's theory on Dark Energy Stars. Here is an article which explains his theory in a more palatable manner.

New Scientist - Three Cosmic Enigmas, One Audacious Answer (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18925423.600-three-cosmic-enigmas-one-audacious-answer.html?full=true)

Very interesting, but mind-boggling :blink: