going beyond enlightenment

[j000han]

It appeared that i had missed a couple of PM's (private messages)
as i had not checked the PM section in the Big View.
In a previous thread named becoming enlightened and going beyond enlightenment i used the expression bad karma,
while suggesting that it would be considered as such if one where to enter that thread.
I was preempting on possible misunderstanding of the intent/meaning of the presented content.
Though that content is not entirely incoherent and/or not so rational as some have suggested, it is nonetheless, genuine and sincere.
Bad karma in this context would have entailed needless tedious discussions about the meaning of the word enlightenment and the value attributed to that expression and not unlikely unnesscairy confusion, in short it would mean to waste my time like i'd be wasting yours.
My purpose is clear as to why i have chosen TBV as a platform to share my understanding of the LOGOS of this era that humanity has entered and i mean sharing.
So..
The title of this tread is a sincere strategic attempt to bypass the obscurity of that E word
and avoid the implications that might rise from the use of that E word.

(stardate)
26/09/2008 05:36:48


Recently I heard on a talk of Richard Dawkins
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6308228560462155344&hl=nl
[The following (parafrased dialogue) happened between Witgenstein and somebody else.
W:
Tell me why do people always say that it was ‘natural’ for the ancients to assume that the sun went around the earth, rather then that the earth was rotating
A:Obviously because it ‘looks’ as if the sun is going around the earth.
W:
Well what would it have ‘looked’ like as if the earth were rotating?]
That is yet another proove that any experience is relative to the condition of the observer.
Indeed how come that the ancients did not infer the fact that the earth is rotating
or at least must be moving in some way or even considered the two possibilities as equally plausible?
Amazon.com: The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution ... (http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Watchmaker-Evidence-Evolution-Universe/dp/0393315703)
Amazon.com: The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design: Richard Dawkins: Books.
Don’t even need to read it to know to understand,
how profoundly deceived one come become.
Despite all intellectual understanding and scientic grooming, nonetheless not understanding that quantumfysics is a portal to the mystery Multiverse also refered to as in:


<< (http://biblecc.com/mark/10-24.htm) Mark 10:25 >> (http://biblecc.com/mark/10-26.htm)
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/johan/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/johan/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image002.gif (http://isv.scripturetext.com/mark/10.htm)file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/johan/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image003.gif (http://isv.org/)................................................. ...............................
It is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God."
And make no mistake my friends that person not even need to be so very rich.to find him/her self ACESS DENIED to EDEN.


Experience I find a somewhat obscure expression.
What is it that is being experienced?
Sounds, colours, tastes, smells, touches, movements,senstations,thoughts?
But what are t-h-o-u-g-h-t-s about?
What are they made of?
Sounds, colours, shapes, tastes, smells, touches, movements, senstations,thoughts?
What’s the sound of one hand clApping?
What’s the colour of your essence?
what’s the shape of your original fAce?
How does the cake thaste that you can have but cannot not eat?
What is the smell of Bullshit?
How does it feel to be touChed by the masters hand?
Can you feel the earth move?
In someway life is all about sensation isn’t it?
So..
MT
Your dream has profound meaning and significance to me.
In that sense you have been correct that it was not (only) meant for you.
Even more so it may have profound impact to a number (as yet not to determine) of people
but in my estimate it can and will be many.
Is the concept of the black hole perhaps the missing link in evolution theory,
Is it is perhaps also where science and religion can come together
and can be understood and lived as a logical sequence,
in the developent of intelligent life?
Though some may find it a bit disconcerting it must be understood,
that there is indeed a hiercharchy in intelligence.
And if you know what your status is there,
then you’ll know what to do and what not to do.:loveyou:

[j000han]

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=qqL9c4jYigk&feature=related (http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=qqL9c4jYigk&feature=related)
Krishnamurti with Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, part 1 of 5
Kquestion-quote:
[What is the quality of the mind that is no longer held in the ‘matrix of experience’?]
>
Are memory and time perhaps the material of that of which conciousness is made of?
If counciousness would be made of strange matter then what is gravity?
^note as matter is containing space thus strange matter then would contain strange space,
one might be inclined to conclude then that,
gravity then must be a (somewhat) strange force that,
(somehow) keeps conciousness coherent.end note^

[j000han]

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=qqL9c4jYigk&feature=related (http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=qqL9c4jYigk&feature=related)
Krishnamurti with Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, part 1 of 5
Kquestion-quote:
[What is the quality of the mind that is no longer held in the ‘matrix of experience’?]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...05277695921912 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912)
:applause:

[...]

..Johan, would it be possible for you to use a proper format for posting your posts? I can't make heads nor tails of your posts most of the time...

[j000han]

..Johan, would it be possible for you to use a proper format for posting your posts? I can't make heads nor tails of your posts most of the time...

can you please describe your problem with reading to me they just appear in the format that all posts appear into.

[...]

..what browser are you using? It could be a browser issue, but almost every post of yours looks garbled ['n zootje]. No paragraphs, interpuntion or spaces between the text. It basically prevents proper understanding of what you are trying to say, but whether i'm the only one having this problem remains unclear...

[j000han]

..what browser are you using? It could be a browser issue, but almost every post of yours looks garbled ['n zootje]. No paragraphs, interpuntion or spaces between the text. It basically prevents proper understanding of what you are trying to say, but whether i'm the only one having this problem remains unclear...

I use Firefox 3.01 and i compose my messages in MS word 2002,
then paste them into the reply to thread pane.
nobody else has yet notified me of having difficulties with the format of the content
that is provided.
Does this post shows the same difficulty?
It was done directly typing in the message without using MS- word.
:)

[Akamu]

I use Firefox 3.01 and i compose my messages in MS word 2002,
then paste them into the reply to thread pane.
nobody else has yet notified me of having difficulties with the format of the content
that is provided.
Does this post shows the same difficulty?
It was done directly typing in the message without using MS- word.
:)

I have noticed the same problem with your posts. This latest post, however, is quite clear. Just though I'd throw in that it is not only dots who sometimes has problems reading your posts. :)

[j000han]

I have noticed the same problem with your posts. This latest post, however, is quite clear. Just though I'd throw in that it is not only dots who sometimes has problems reading your posts. :)

I wonder why this 'problem' turns up after i have writen over a 100 posts on which
i never got any notifaction that something "od" was going on.
Also i'm completely in the dark as to what you intent to communicate with this:
vis:
[Just though I'd throw in that it is not only dots who sometimes has problems reading your posts.]:)

[...]

I use Firefox 3.01 and i compose my messages in MS word 2002,
then paste them into the reply to thread pane.
nobody else has yet notified me of having difficulties with the format of the content
that is provided.
Does this post shows the same difficulty?
It was done directly typing in the message without using MS- word.
:)

..that explains it, usually pasted text from Word doesn't render properly in forum software. I mentioned this only now because, well.. it started to annoy me :p

[Akamu]

I wonder why this 'problem' turns up after i have writen over a 100 posts on which
i never got any notifaction that something "od" was going on.
Also i'm completely in the dark as to what you intent to communicate with this:
vis:
[Just though I'd throw in that it is not only dots who sometimes has problems reading your posts.]:)

Well, I have always noticed it...it didn't just now come up. It just did not bother me to the point of forcing me to log in and confront you about it, my apologies.

"Just though I'd throw in that it is not only dots who sometimes has problems reading your posts."

All I was trying to communicate to you was that dots, the poster who first pointed out to you the obscurity of your posts ( ... ), was not the only member of this forum to have noticed.

[schrodinger]

I wonder why this 'problem' turns up after i have writen over a 100 posts on which
i never got any notifaction that something "od" was going on.
Also i'm completely in the dark as to what you intent to communicate with this:
vis:
[Just though I'd throw in that it is not only dots who sometimes has problems reading your posts.]:)

I did make a comment on this in an earlier thread, when I jokingly asked if you were using dada dodo to compose your posts. I thought the disjointed sentence effect was intentional; apparently that is not the case. You obviously possess a good intellect and have many interesting things to say, but the format of your posts sometimes makes them very difficult to read and understand.

[j000han]

I did make a comment on this in an earlier thread, when I jokingly asked if you were using dada dodo to compose your posts. I thought the disjointed sentence effect was intentional; apparently that is not the case. You obviously possess a good intellect and have many interesting things to say, but the format of your posts sometimes makes them very difficult to read and understand.

...,Schrodinger, Akamu:)
thanks for your kind explanation(s) i'll make an effort to improve the formatting.

[j000han]

...,Schrodinger, Akamu:)
thanks for your kind explanation(s) i'll make an effort to improve the formatting.

i hope the content is not garbled again:)

Once upon a time there was a civilization that hat managed to built a Large Hadron Collider.
On the day that the first collisions were scheduled to happen there was somebody who wrote a message to an internet forum called the Big View.
The message was posted in a thread named Becoming enlightened and go beyond.
That somebody had givien the name to that thread and began the post with.
[1)
Please, if you enter here and after reading
you feel inclined to respond to any part of the content then start a new thread
titled re-<threadname as is><
It is a simple procedure.]
Though nobody had asked for it nonetheless somebody began to tell a story:

Once upon a time there was a civilization that hat managed to built a Large Hadron Collider.
On the day that the first collisions were scheduled to happen there was somebody who wrote a message to an internet forum called the Big View.
The message was posted in a thread named Becoming enlightened and go beyond.
That somebody had given the name to that thread and began the post with.
[1)
Please, if you enter here and after reading
you feel inclined to respond to any part of the content then start a new thread
titled re-<threadname as is><
It is a simple procedure.]
Though nobody had asked for it nonetheless somebody began to tell a story:

Once upon a time there was a civilization that hat managed to built a Large Hadron Collider.
On the day that the first collisions were scheduled to happen there was somebody who wrote a message to an internet forum called the Big View.
The message was posted in a thread named Becoming enlightened and go beyond.
That somebody had given the name to that thread and began the post with.
[1)
Please, if you enter here and after reading
you feel inclined to respond to any part of the content then start a new thread
titled re-<threadname as is><
It is a simple procedure.]
Though nobody had asked for it nonetheless somebody began to tell a story:


Once upon a time there was a civilization…………..,

It can go on and on,
but it had to start somewhere right?
Currently the LHC experiment has been delayed, that is in the reality we share in this context.
Can you conceive the possiblity that in an other reality (call it a paralell universe)
we were succesfull in bringing about collisions and what we are now is the result of those collisions?
Is not fragmentattion the root of all problems?
if so then, it also may be the solution.

[j000han]

Is not fragmentattion the root of all problems?
if so then, it also may be the solution.

http://actualfreedom.com.au/richard/articles/poster.htm
:loveyou:
if it's your thing then it is your thing:)

[j000han]

if it's your thing then it is your thing:)

The following message was sent to:

http://www.lhcconcerns.com/LHCConcerns/Forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=703&p=9841#p9841
^note as someone on that forum quite astutely called that forum a trainwreck,
nonetheless some intresting stuff i think is/has been happening there end note^
^in another thread (here on the BV) the discussion with regard to 'stretchy deities',
i find quite significant and tying into this is the (albeit somewhat arbitrairy) proposition that follows below. end note^



It is easy for anyone alife today,
to see that our planet orbits around the sun ( a star)
and hence ‘nobody’ can dispute this as not being a fact, irregardless of his/her
social/national/cultural/religious conditioning..
Iow. ‘humanity’ is part of a stellar system thus being ‘human’ implies being part of this system, again, irregardless of his/her social/national/cultural/religious conditioning;no need to believe this..
Why then is it, that social/national/cultural/religious conditioning still breeds and fosters false notions of identity/individuality and these false notions override the significance of the realisation of this fact?
Is it because social/national/cultural/religious conditioning runs so deep?
Speaking from my own experience, indeed it does run very deep.
It runs so deep, that it is almost impossible to fully undergo that realization AND
actually experience the full impact of that fact..
Only those who can SEE, that social/national/cultural/religious conditioning
has disabled most of us to live as helio-centric beings,
are able to see through the false notion of ‘humanity’ as a common denominator.
Time for playing silly ‘çybergames’ is realy running out.
It is fruitles to invest any hope for change in any of your socalled leaders/gurus/teachers be they the religious or political providers of a solution for the current crisis that each member of the current population will have to face.
If indeed you are/were on this forum and have participated sincerely with an intent to ‘understand’ what the LHC is about, you have been sufficiently been ‘exposed’ such as that you now must be capable of grasping that BLACK HOLES are nodes in the OMNICREATIVE MIND.
IF the above information has been taken aboard, one will be capable of seeing that the following proposition for course of further action is sensible.
So…
Please,
pass this information over as a chain letter!
End message.

[j000han]

End message.
http://www.2012evolution.com/community-forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=1585#p1585


The Mayans (http://www.2012evolution.com/community-forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=1585#p1580)

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/johan/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif (http://www.2012evolution.com/community-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1580#p1580)by EARTH (http://www.2012evolution.com/community-forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=90) on Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:11 pm
According to ancient Mayan beliefs the Cosmos was made up by Nine Underworlds.
>
Earth and her inhabitants are currently travelling through the 13th baktun cycle - the final period of 1618-2012 AD. This cycle is known both as "the triumph of materialism" and "the transformation of matter." The Maya predicted this final baktun would be a time of great forgetting in which we drift very far from our sense of Oneness with Nature and experience a kind of collective amnesia. Like a memory virus in which we begin to believe the limited reality of appearances and grow dense to the spiritual essence which fuels this world, so humanity's sense of ego and domination has grown.

>

The Gregorian calendar is not based on logic, science, or nature. It denies and covers up the true annual human biological cycle conserved in the body of woman. It is the current world standard because of the forceful issuance of this system upon conquered (indigenous) peoples who lost their land as well as their religious freedoms. The Gregorian calendar is a product of its predecessors - Julius Caesar's calendar and the earlier Roman Empire calendar.

>

Our societal paradigms have continued to operate with these limitations in place. Thus if something can not be seen, touched, or proven with measurements, it does not, in effect, exist.

Through the Cartesian lens, Nature has become reduced to pure quantifiable resources - no longer a living qualitative aspect of ourselves, but now something outside of ourselves which we observe, analyze and ultimately come to replicate, manipulate, dominate, toxify, and even destroy or extinguish. As Rene Descartes stated plainly,"I perceived it to be possible to arrive at knowledge highly useful in life...and thus render ourselves the lords and possessors of nature."

It seems the modern world wants nothing more than to improve upon Nature, or at least extract her wisdoms and magical properties in order to make a buck by fulfilling increasing consumer demand.



>


We are being invited to realize that we are Time. We are the Living Prophecy. The Synchronic Order of Natural Time governs the unfolding of our lives. Time's cycles are found within our bodies and within Nature's daily rhythms and cyclic seasons. We have forgotten this, thinking that time is money or that time is the clock, or the relentless progression of work weeks and weekends. Time is the ever-changing, unfolding Now as it synchronistically coordinates the Whole living Universe.

>
It is for us to decipher how to live our lives with integrity; to determine what truths empower us to model our lives according to our greatest harmonious potential.

>

A peak point in this time on Earth is what's called the "transition of the biosphere into the no-osphere." According to Russian scientist V.I.Vernadsky,"This is the result of a climax of human self-reflective thought and industry upon the environment, resulting in an exponential change in consciousness in which all becomes revealed and known."

>
Returning to Natural Time

>

The "Dreamspell" is subtitled "Timeship Earth 2013." If we understand that Time refers to the fourth dimension of Mind which governs third dimensional space, (Intention preceding manifestation), then what if we translate this as "Mindship Earth 2013?" As humans all over the planet unite through this synchronization tool, we are in fact linking minds over the next 7 years, and beyond. Perhaps the design and the quality of the Ship of 2013 will reflect the consciousnesses of those minds who have linked up! All aboard!


"The purpose of the 13-moon calendar is to assist in converting third-dimensional materialism into the fourth-dimensional rainbow nation."
-The Dreamspell
"Like the Maya who preceded us, we shall understand that the path to the stars is through the senses and that the proper utilization of our mind as the auto-regulatory control factor will help facilitate the passage to different levels or dimensions of being." -José Argüelles

This prophecy is unfolding, right now!
As Valum Votan said: "We are the Peacemakers we've been waiting for!"

All that has been unconscious is becoming conscious.

May Our Paths Be Illumined By The Highest Light Of The Creator That We May Live In Harmony With All Our Relations, In Service to the Whole.

Personal and Planetary awakening is here, now.
As Werner Erhardt says:
"Now is when it is. Here is where it is. You are what it is. Celebrate!"

IN LAK'ECH
YUCATEC MAYAN CODE OF HONOR
"I AM ANOTHER YOURSELF"

- Xa Ta Zac Xa Ta Amac -
"Only May There Be Peace In Your Presence"
Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence...

[Chan Tiger]

Hi j000han,

I think you have a lot of interesting things to say, especially in your last post about time. I really like your observations on the Gregorian calender vs. indigenous calenders (and the broader issue of linear time vs cyclic time) and the effect of Cartesian-Baconian "instrumental reason" on how we view the natural world are fascinating and insightful and I would love to discuss these in greater depth.

But I have to say, you lost me when you dove into the whole 2012 business.

I am a 2012 skeptic and I've yet to see any convincing reason to believe that "something big" is going to happen on New Year's. As far as I can tell, it's the same millennial impulse that inspired the Millerites to don white robes and march to Le Roy, New York in 1843 and certain Adventists to follow suit in the 1880s, and the followers of Robert Reidt in the 1920s, the Chen Tao cult in 1997 (that time they had white cowboy hats along with the the white robes), and most recently the Y2k hysteria in 2000. The various 2012 prophecies seem to me to be much the same, but dressed up in a more "New Age" garb.

Christianity is the "cultural operating system" of the West, and I think these sort of movements really reflect this. The notion of an "end times" is almost uniquely Christian, and betrays the same concept of linear time that you critiqued earlier in your post. The fact that many 2012 prophets of doom try to map their predictions onto a larger cycle does not hide the fact that they are, consciously or unconsciously, the heirs to a specifically Christian tradition of Apocalyptic prophecy and ideology (incidentally, the same is true of supposedly secular Marxists and purportedly atheist transhumanists. But that's a discussion all in itself).

Now I very much empathize with the notion that the world is crumbling, but I do not subscribe to the notion of an "end times". As Nietzsche said, if the world could come to an end, logically it would have done so; it hasn't, so it doesn't. The "world" has ended many times, but somehow this hasn't stopped events from flowing on.

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this. I am still very much open to possibility that something will happen on January 1, 2012 or whenever the scheduled date is for whatever it is that is supposed to happen.

The great thing about the 2012 prediction is that we can test it. On New Year's Day, 2012, we will know the truth of these predictions. :)

[j000han]

Hi j000han,
>
Now I very much empathize with the notion that the world is crumbling, but I do not subscribe to the notion of an "end times". As Nietzsche said, if the world could come to an end, logically it would have done so; it hasn't, so it doesn't. The "world" has ended many times, but somehow this hasn't stopped events from flowing on.

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this. I am still very much open to possibility that something will happen on January 1, 2012 or whenever the scheduled date is for whatever it is that is supposed to happen.

The great thing about the 2012 prediction is that we can test it. On New Year's Day, 2012, we will know the truth of these predictions. :)

CT:
[Now I very much empathize with the notion that the world is crumbling]
J:It is quite plain to see eh.
CT:
[Of course, I could be wrong about all of this. I am still very much open to possibility that something will happen on January 1, 2012 or whenever the scheduled date is for whatever it is that is supposed to happen.]
J:
I'm a sceptic myself in this matter.
Anyone who claims to possess extraoridinairy information(aquired by ie. channelling an elderly maya as some women/men who have managed to commercialize this Maya filosofy i consider as a dubious sources.
But the Maya system in itself seems to me is the most apealing believesystem
so far i have discovered and perhaps it will appear to be more then just a believestystem indeed we will know by January 1, 2012 :)

[Chan Tiger]

I'm a sceptic myself in this matter.
Anyone who claims to possess extraoridinairy information(aquired by ie. channelling an elderly maya as some women/men who have managed to commercialize this Maya filosofy i consider as a dubious sources.

But the Maya system in itself seems to me is the most apealing believesystem
so far i have discovered and perhaps it will appear to be more then just a believestystem indeed we will know by January 1, 2012 :)

That seems like a reasonable enough position to take. :) I'm glad you are aware of the dubious claims and commercial aims of many of the 2012 prophets. As the date itself grows closer, I think we can only expect to see more of this.

Beyond all that though I'm willing to grant that it's entirely possible some cosmic event will occur---and I also find the beliefs of the Mayans to be very interesting. :) Maybe we should start a whole threat devoted to Mayan philosophy, science, and religion?

[sonrisa]

actually it's not Jan 1st, it's Christmas Eve 2012... altho Schrodinger has presented a convincing argument somewhere on this site as to why this will probably turn out to be just another holiday....

[j000han]

actually it's not Jan 1st, it's Christmas Eve 2012... altho Schrodinger has presented a convincing argument somewhere on this site as to why this will probably turn out to be just another holiday....
i found this link quite ellucidating.
http://2012-comet.com/phpbb/2012/obama-the-anti-christ-t147-90.html#p3092