Ultimate Societal Break Point -- My Dream Two Nights Ago

[MultipleTentacles]

I had a dream on the night of the 13th:

Humans were traveling in deep space with huge space ships. They built a large civilization in the center of the galaxy -- it was a beautiful city, a very large city. The city grew and grew, and built on top of itself again and again. More shops, more trade routes, more and larger transportation networks -- bigger and larger.

Sensing trouble, I commissioned a space ship to take me out to a planet in the wilderness -- not unlike Idaho is compared to the rest of the United States. (I live in Idaho, by the way).

I watched the frenzy of bigger and better take over the civilization in the center of the galaxy, knowing something bad was going to happen. Finally, through some natural accident, the civilization created a supermassive black hole (kind of like people are afraid will happen on Earth because of the Large Hadron Collider.) I say "natural accident" because it was (in the dream) an event that was certain to happen at some point due to murphy's law and the laws of probability. Big systems are more likely to contract fatal errors.

Anyway, I watched the center of the galaxy implode. The leaders of the civilization took their space ships farther and farther out into the galaxy to try to find inspiration that would prevent the black hole from getting any worse, or even perhaps reverse the process. I knew it was inevitable that they would reach my planet.

The leaders of the galactic civilization sent me a distress message. The message said something to the effect of, "We created a natural order and it imploded on us. Please tell us, how does this natural order reflect something which is, when it naturally implodes to something it was not intended to be?" In other words, they were saying, "Our intentions were good, but the result was bad. How can this be if good is destined to win over evil? What was the significance of our hard work?"

I did the best I could to respond. I said, "Your hard work exemplified the more robust view of the form of the good (that is, the natural order in your mind as opposed to the material presentation of it.) In essence, your hard work was done in faith, and carried with it the notion of the unphysical. The black hole was going to happen anyway. Look, we even create black holes here:" At which point, I created a small black hole. Then, I created another.

After creating the last black hole, I got sucked into one. The black hole made a sucking sound, which was actually the furnace of the house, which woke me up.

The significance of the fact that the black hole woke me up was that it was a transition to the next reality -- the reality outside of the dream. What a perfect transition!

Here's what I learned from this dream:

I am a guy who always looks at things moralistically. In a sense, I project "natural orders" of good vs. bad. But this dream helped me to remember that things in this material world are impermanent. No matter what I project, like a moat of sand on a beach, it will eventually be washed away.

Another interesting part of this dream is the commentary on society. We form governments and corporations to bring us a more meaningful type of freedom. (We would not be as free if we didn't have the corporation-produced shoes or the government-created lack of crime.) We have the thought, "if only the right person (usually me) is the king of the world, all problems would be solved." But the more we concentrate power, the more serious errors in judgment become. However, in western society, there is a big push for bigger and better and more and more powerful. We have huge, nuclear weapons; gigantic, greatly influential corporations with worldwide scope; we can talk to people across the world; in short, it is possible for mere individuals to acquire vast amounts of power and influence. Is this push for bigger and better going to be our downfall?

I think someone's got to be the most powerful, the most influential. But eventually, it just gets crazy. You turn on the television, and nothing's being said. But personally, I really don't think this dream was referring to that. If it was referring to the "bigger and better" problem, I don't think it was referring to the idea of society in general, because society is a massively decentralized system. I think it was referring to the power of individuals. Individuals seem more likely to make great, grievous errors than societies. What do you think, is it possible to have vast power with no checks on your power, and yet live a life without making so grievous an error as to jeopardize your conscience and safety?

[loveGOD]

Hello loving Friend... thinking thanks. You've alot to ponder with such a dream. I've found my dreams have a link to thought. It seems You've experienced enlightenment and now much thought is given to power.
Power is corrosive and must be respected for forgiveness sake. I like the line ' with so many weapons there must be alot of questions'. To say awe is empowering and to say some is tricky. I'm thinking some is a corrupting force when used with awe. When one knows one and the power of one, one understands the potential of two. It's rare for two to share one thought though
and even less likley for three to one thought share. The game or war if you will is to continue to learn the power of one.
Imagining All Withing Divine Peace and Joy:loveyou:

[jufa]

What power does anyone have when they can't arrange each moment to unify their thoughts, interpretations, analysis, imagination, and live in the immortality of that unification? What power does thought have when the permanence of the man is not permanent? What knowledge does a man have of good and evil when the two feed off one anothers essence to maintain their substance of singularity? How can a man live moralistically when his thoughts are divided in sections of morality based on prejudices? And how can a man not know a black hole does not eliminate his essence when he is dependent totally upon his countenance? And no matter how far a man travels to build a perfect social order, when does a man leave his conscious thoughts and renew the spirit of his mind that would automatically demand changes of the old order?

To believe a man can out run his conscious and become conscientious without changing his inbred thoughts is man's greatest deception.

[MultipleTentacles]

To Jufa:

To believe a man can out run his conscious and become conscientious without changing his inbred thoughts is man's greatest deception.

Very inspiring comment! Truly, one can never outrun one's consciousness and come to a final destination devoid of change.

What knowledge does a man have of good and evil when the two feed off one anothers essence to maintain their substance of singularity?

I have a bit different of a conception of "evil." Here, by "good and evil," I think you mean "dark and light," or "yin and yang," or "productive and destructive." To tell you the truth, black holes are somewhat of a mystery to me, so I'm not sure whether "singularity" accurately describes a state of equilibrium between productive and destructive. However, in the context of the dream, yes, the singularity was probably such a thing as you describe.

When the singularity took over, however, I understood it as something of an evil. Now when I say evil, I essentially mean a form of existing which unnaturally impedes good things -- good things being everything that is not evil. "Construction" or "destruction" can be present in both good and evil. An old building being destroyed can be an act of good. A doctrine of hatred and intolerance being created can be an act of evil. I think "good" as far as my definition goes is more "real" than evil. Evil seems to be a bad parody of good -- like some worthless spin-off which is not even worth watching.

Now when I say the singularity was an evil, I think I mean it was an un-thought-out result which "the system" misinterpreted. One of the things I ponder over is, what exactly does it mean that the result was some catastrophic event that threatened to take over everything? How much does this relate to society, and how much does it relate to the individual? Can such a thing actually happen? Is it even worth anything to pursue this line of thought? I really don't know the answer to these questions. All I think I know is that when trying to be big and powerful, the influence can be corrupting.

To loveGOD:

You've alot to ponder with such a dream.

This may be so... and your comments give me more to ponder yet! Many thanks.

However, when I dreamed this dream, I got the distinct feeling, this dream is not intended for me. That is actually my motivation for posting it here. I've had dreams before that I felt were intended for people I know, so I try to tell them about the dreams. As far as this dream goes, I had no idea whatsoever whom it was for, so I put it in a public place. At the very least, I knew it wasn't for myself, but I thought it was definitely for somebody. Hopefully it gets to the right person or people.

Power is corrosive and must be respected for forgiveness sake. I like the line ' with so many weapons there must be alot of questions'. To say awe is empowering and to say some is tricky. I'm thinking some is a corrupting force when used with awe.

This is really quite an interesting point. My sense is that "some" seems to mean "to some extent," or "built up to some degree," as in "handsome" or "fulsome" -- especially regarding the latter's meaning of "copious", see here (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fulsome). So what exactly does "awesome" mean? To say "I have awesome power" does truly seem to have two component statements: "I inspire awe" and "I have built up a great deal of power." I agree (if I understand you correctly), having a pent-up source of power is dangerous, though to inspire awe is definitely a good thing.

I also agree that we should forgive those who do harm to us. This seems to be one of the most fundamental and important purposes of any philosophy or religion worth engaging in. However, I don't think one should sanction such harm being done, though forgiving it is of utmost importance.

When one knows one and the power of one, one understands the potential of two. It's rare for two to share one thought though
and even less likley for three to one thought share. The game or war if you will is to continue to learn the power of one.

I have a question: when you say, "The game of war ... is to continue to learn the power of one," do you mean war in terms of conceptual conflict (i.e. three people with conflicting opinions working hard to try and share thoughts), or do you mean war in the standard sense -- large groups of people conquering territory?

Either way, this is also a very interesting and thought provoking thought. I think war-as-in-armies-conquering-territory is destructive and pointless. The only time this type of war is even remotely justified is when you have someone like Hitler, who seemed to valued war and destruction more than life. But even then, in my view, negotiations and diplomacy should never be cut off as long as they can be conducted safely -- which is why radios, and telephones, and email, etc. are so important to us as a society. Because of these, we have the ability to contact our enemies without sending people into harm's way.

Now if you consider war to be learning the power of one, I would say, that is at best a very dangerous way to go about it. Firstly, defeating others only makes people not like you, so you now have challenges to way of existing. Secondly, you might not come out of the war a victor. What "power of one" would you have then?

Besides that, do people who go to war have the idea of "one" in their minds? Some do, perhaps. But many probably don't -- they probably have the idea of "two": us, and those other people we're fighting. In my view, it's almost insurmountably difficult to conduct a war without resorting to dualism.

Then again, if you use the term "war" in some abstract term, as in fighting through a jungle of conflicting opinions to come to some equal standing, then this type of war seems to be always justified, and always brings about great good -- with one caveat: the people engaged in conflict must be SURE they share some point of view. If people have no basis of agreement and try to debate one another, the result is just a bunch of hard-headed people with strong opinions stating and restating their points of view to people who obviously could care less. I could hardly think of anything less productive.

As I said, these are very interesting and thought provoking thoughts! :)

It seems You've experienced enlightenment and now much thought is given to power.

Much thanks for your comment regarding enlightenment. At least, I hope my comments are enlightening in some way... that's my goal. ^_^

[aviatrix]

MultipleTentacles
Hello there. I don't know where you fall on this, but to me, your dream could possibly be a memory. Perhaps this actually happened to you and it is a reminder to watch yourself. Or, since you have dreams for others, it could be for someone else as you stated. Is it too far fetched to believe that this could have happened somewhere else in this universe?

[MultipleTentacles]

MultipleTentacles
Hello there. I don't know where you fall on this, but to me, your dream could possibly be a memory. Perhaps this actually happened to you and it is a reminder to watch yourself. Or, since you have dreams for others, it could be for someone else as you stated. Is it too far fetched to believe that this could have happened somewhere else in this universe?

Maybe it's possible this has happened somewhere else in the universe, though I like to ascribe metaphorical meaning to it.

I assume by "memory" you mean a memory of a past life?

[aviatrix]

Maybe it's possible this has happened somewhere else in the universe, though I like to ascribe metaphorical meaning to it.

I assume by "memory" you mean a memory of a past life?

Yes, that's what I mean. Sorry, I should have made myself more clear. I don't think we're bound to this particular planet when there are so many others out there. I do believe in reincarnation, so I suppose that helps in this particular train of thought.

[MultipleTentacles]

Aviatrix, it didn't seem like something like that to me. I think it's probably very difficult in principle for any species to create a black hole big enough to destroy the planet. It seems almost like you have to do it on purpose. And clearly, in this dream, it was an accident -- that's why I take it metaphorically.

Furthermore, I don't think this new super hadron collider will create a black hole that will destroy the planet either. Think about it this way: the collider recreates conditions that existed at the birth of the universe. If there were any significant probability that these conditions would have given rise to a black hole like that, the universe would never have been born!

But as far as past lives go, I think the way to see what you were in a past life is to analyze your current situation -- your prejudices, dispositions, "luck," etc. Because I think if you were anywhere before you were born, it would be somewhere where justice would dictate your current situation. "Memories" could just be some wayward spirit or idea that pops into your head out of the blue, so I wouldn't trust them too much, unless they fit with your current situation.

[Smurf]

Furthermore, I don't think this new super hadron collider will create a black hole that will destroy the planet either. Think about it this way: the collider recreates conditions that existed at the birth of the universe. If there were any significant probability that these conditions would have given rise to a black hole like that, the universe would never have been born!

Plus, there are millions of particles beaming through/into the earth constantly that are at a greater magnitude than what they are testing in the LHC.

I like your dream MT, it's interesting. We have power, we must accept that we can affect our surroundings. It's also important to note that there are some things that are permanent. Life/death "cycle" (although people are working hard to break this), morality, laws of mathematics (ability to measure and create specific out of the environs). But yes most things are impermanent, as they are subject to change. I think that this is going to be one of the biggest questions we might ask ourselves, whether or not we should revamp our consumerist lifestyle. Take a look at the nature of property, being that mostly fuelled by greed, and change it in a way that satisfies all.
What is power anyway? It is precursor to control, and control is just a blackmail using the influence of termination. It is bottomless, useless and amoral. You cannot live by that.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[MultipleTentacles]

...laws of mathematics...

But in a black hole, mathematics doesn't even exist. How can mathematics be permanent?

I think sequentiality is probably permanent. So if our current mathematics is destroyed, we can probably predict that a new mathematics will take its place.

[MultipleTentacles]

Okay, now here's something I really think.

There's nothing wrong with control. There's nothing wrong with consumerism. There's nothing wrong with property. There's nothing wrong with governments. There's nothing wrong with corporations. But, here's the thing.

Imagine building something like a big stick, 10 miles tall. Perfectly straight, just bigger and bigger and bigger. Greed may push us to build the stick higher and higher and higher -- that may be the only goal, going higher. However, at some point, the stick is definitely going to fall down. Why? Because it's a stick. You can't make a long stick stand up perfectly straight and not expect it to fall down. At some point, you have to put together some form of support to ground the stick in reality, or it will fall.

That is what I think the dream is referring to. If we build a society bigger and bigger and bigger, stronger and stronger and stronger, that's just fine -- there's no problem with that. No problem at all. But at some point, you have to put in some groundwork, to make sure the whole thing doesn't fall over. That groundwork is morality.

Now I don't know if my dream has anything to do with society at large, or just some image of society that I get from watching TV or something. I've never been the president, so I have no idea if our society is about to collapse catastrophically or not. I just don't know. But I do know this: we need both the moral, ultimate, metaphysical, and the impartial, material, physical to be strong as individuals and as a society. So I don't know whom this dream was for, but I think that is part of the message.

[Nullified Knight]

I think someone's got to be the most powerful, the most influential. But eventually, it just gets crazy. You turn on the television, and nothing's being said.

Undeniably, an interesting dream there, friend. This line in particular caught my eye. (Apologies for not replying directly to the intended point in your post, but as a writer, this is something that irks me.)

There is a difference between talking and saying something. Sadly, there are fewer and fewer things being said, and more and more talking. It's most recognizable with politicians and lawyers, both having the innate ability to drone on and on for long periods of time while sounding like there's a point to their speech. Usually, there is no point, but talking in circles seems to satisfy the majority of the public.

So here's my point. An observation. People here on TBV more often than not have the potential to say something. Not merely to talk circles, but have a message and make a difference. If I may make the use of a small metaphor, we are, essentially, the last of the book people. Intellect is our greatest resource.