Oneness realization precedes omnipresence realization

[bito]

I have moved ...'s response to me from the "If a child should ask..." thread, into this new thread, for purposes of clarity and keeping on topic.

..no bito, you are passing on the yoke by inventing, or perpetuating, this gameplan where you ultimately free yourself from an imagined burden. If all is God, why would you want to free one aspect of God from another?

..., I am inventing nothing, for I cannot invent. I am an individual omnipresent expression of God, of Life, of Spirit.

The awareness experience that is the oneness of God is not the permanent awareness that is the awareness that I and the Father are One. The first awareness precedes the second, and the first must be freed from the grip of one's sense of moving or being moved within one's conditioned thought world so that second can be realized, that of one's being at rest in one's omnipresent awareness - unconditioned awareness.

When we are living from our ego consciousness (the sense of being split in two, of subject and object in conflict or competition with one another) or our soul consciousness (the experience of moving one's awareness within the oneness of God) we remain "I and the Father are One", for we can never leave our own consciousness, our own awareness, but we are not One with the Father at rest. Until we realize that we are omnipresent as the Father is omnipresent, we remain in the belief that our thoughts are moving us here and there, to and fro, as beliefs, opinions and perceptions.

Our burden is indeed imagined, yet this imagined burden feels real, for thought and feeling are always one.

[schrodinger]

The awareness experience that is the oneness of God is not the permanent awareness that is the awareness that I and the Father are One.—Bito—

I = one, Father = one, I and the Father = two. And why “Father”? Is that a choice made as a result of having a conditioned mind? Does God have anatomically correct moving parts, or is God a spirit? Can you not see your own conditioned mind at work here?

[bito]

The awareness experience that is the oneness of God is not the permanent awareness that is the awareness that I and the Father are One.—Bito—

I = one, Father = one, I and the Father = two. And why “Father”? Is that a choice made as a result of having a conditioned mind? Does God have anatomically correct moving parts, or is God a spirit? Can you not see your own conditioned mind at work here?

No, my conditioned mind is not at work or I would not be able to write from the position of having transcended my conditioned mind.

Jesus Christ used words, the Buddha used words. Each used words that reflected their conditioning to speak of that which points beyond all conditioning. Words that suggest must be used for those who are trapped in words and believe they cannot find their way out of this entrapment.

If Jesus Christ or the Buddha had remained silent and not used words such as the Father or heaven or Buddha nature or nirvana, how would we now be lifted up out of our conditioned awareness so as to be referring to Jesus Christ and the Buddha?

The intellect is so busy trying to divide words that it cannot hear the spirit of The Word, no matter which religion or tradition births the pointers to The Word.

[Flux]

But you must understand that Jesus and Buddha were wise teachers because they made sense and actually argued their point. They realized that argument was different from realization itself. I think that Buddha in particular believed that some things were beyond words, but he eschewed talking about it in favor of rational discourse and practical advice. The amount of time Buddha spent talking about Nirvana is incomparable to the amount of time he spent talking about how to attain it. I think this is because he realized that any attempt to talk about the ineffable was futile by definition. But it seems that you have trancended the level of humble discourse, and as such will not suffer yourself to dable in anything concrete.

There is no argument I can offer against your words, because I truely think that they cone to nothing; they are a vacuous mass of nonsensicality. I do not mean to deny the validity of your subjective experience--for all I know, you have known what was to be known, done what was to be done, attained what was to be attained, and reached the furthest shore. But that is not the point. While an experience simply is, a proposition makes some sort of stand or evaluation about experience--it has content, and furthers knowledge. Your experience may be of value, but your attempts to verbally express it are not. I know that this may sound harsh, but if you really have trancended all dualities, I can't imagine something as small as substantial criticism could take the wind out of your sails.

[...]

I have moved ...'s response to me from the "If a child should ask..." thread, into this new thread, for purposes of clarity and keeping on topic.



..., I am inventing nothing, for I cannot invent. I am an individual omnipresent expression of God, of Life, of Spirit.

The awareness experience that is the oneness of God is not the permanent awareness that is the awareness that I and the Father are One. The first awareness precedes the second, and the first must be freed from the grip of one's sense of moving or being moved within one's conditioned thought world so that second can be realized, that of one's being at rest in one's omnipresent awareness - unconditioned awareness.

When we are living from our ego consciousness (the sense of being split in two, of subject and object in conflict or competition with one another) or our soul consciousness (the experience of moving one's awareness within the oneness of God) we remain "I and the Father are One", for we can never leave our own consciousness, our own awareness, but we are not One with the Father at rest. Until we realize that we are omnipresent as the Father is omnipresent, we remain in the belief that our thoughts are moving us here and there, to and fro, as beliefs, opinions and perceptions.

Our burden is indeed imagined, yet this imagined burden feels real, for thought and feeling are always one.

..i know what you are, but what am i? The reason why i said you're perpetuating the yoke is because you unnecessarily divide awareness in two. What you call divine awareness is as conditioned as the mind is. You might have attached value to this divine awareness because once realised [another kind of perceiving] it relieved you of suffering, but that only means one thing: that it's another kind of perception...

..in TBV's olden days it was often said that 'perception is a lie', for the only thing that is able to percieve [make sense of] anything is the mind. But before the mind is able to assign meaning to odd shapes and impressions it has to be conditioned. The mind, no matter how you try to break it up and put it back together, can't exist without conditioning for it ís conditioning...

..beyond that conditioning is awareness, yes, but this awareness is amazed by what a clock is supposed to be: it's awareness an infant has; it is without understanding...

..growing up, this empty canvas is painted in, and eventually the pain[t] will obscure the emptiness upto the point of confusion. It's clearing out the confusion and reminding a person of the empty canvas that invites a sense of peace into ones life, but that still does not mean there's a separate kind of self that exists...

..do you see that you use of words to describe a sense of inner peace, and how to attain that sense, couldn't be without conditioning?

[bito]

..do you see that you use of words to describe a sense of inner peace, and how to attain that sense, couldn't be without conditioning?

..., of what permanent benefit is a 'sense' of peace?

Conditioning comes about because Spirit/Consciousness/Awareness interprets, in ignorance, that bodies are separate in time and space, and that life and death are a beginning and an end to one's life. These conditions are translated and transcended until there are none left to translate or transcend.

[loveGOD]

The awareness experience that is the oneness of God is not the permanent awareness that is the awareness that I and the Father are One.—Bito—

I = one, Father = one, I and the Father = two. And why “Father”? Is that a choice made as a result of having a conditioned mind? Does God have anatomically correct moving parts, or is God a spirit? Can you not see your own conditioned mind at work here?
Thinking Thanks...schrodinger Interesting perspective. A constructive
thought is fluid, one should try their being fluid. I like to say "my mind my playground", another I like is "my end control". Love you...Love All...LoveGOD

[j000han]

..., of what permanent benefit is a 'sense' of peace?

Conditioning comes about because Spirit/Consciousness/Awareness interprets, in ignorance, that bodies are separate in time and space, and that life and death are a beginning and an end to one's life. These conditions are translated and transcended until there are none left to translate or transcend.
So…
now you are [an individual omnipresent expression of God, of Life, of Spirit]
what are you going to do?
Ie.
If you were asked to draw a map of the ‘world’ in such a way that this map
includes a comprehensible sketch of what your position and/ or role is.
And what the position of others (relative to your position) are (or could be)?
Then..
how would you go about this?
Iow. what part do you think that you/them play in this human drama?
What do you think is your/their role as a an individual omnipresent expression of God, of Life, of Spirit?

[^note neither the role nor the body of a an individual omnipresent expression of God, of Life, of Spirit is considered to be gender specific^]
hint:
[Does perhaps the Logos of the Universal mind also apply to the process of civilization?]
Now..here is the KOAN again:
Where does the fire of the Olympic flame go,
when it’s no longer fueled?
this should be a piece of cake to respond as the embodyment as an individual omnipresent expression of God, of Life, of Spirit, eh?

[...]

..., of what permanent benefit is a 'sense' of peace?

Conditioning comes about because Spirit/Consciousness/Awareness interprets, in ignorance, that bodies are separate in time and space, and that life and death are a beginning and an end to one's life. These conditions are translated and transcended until there are none left to translate or transcend.

..nothing in this life is permanent bito. I understand you believe otherwise, but you also make an arbitrary distinction between self and Higher Self, between conditioned and unconditional. All is God; even/especially the conditioned, the egomind. There is really nothing to do but to be...

[loveGOD]

But you must understand that Jesus and Buddha were wise teachers because they made sense and actually argued their point. They realized that argument was different from realization itself. I think that Buddha in particular believed that some things were beyond words, but he eschewed talking about it in favor of rational discourse and practical advice. The amount of time Buddha spent talking about Nirvana is incomparable to the amount of time he spent talking about how to attain it. I think this is because he realized that any attempt to talk about the ineffable was futile by definition. But it seems that you have trancended the level of humble discourse, and as such will not suffer yourself to dable in anything concrete.

There is no argument I can offer against your words, because I truely think that they cone to nothing; they are a vacuous mass of nonsensicality. I do not mean to deny the validity of your subjective experience--for all I know, you have known what was to be known, done what was to be done, attained what was to be attained, and reached the furthest shore. But that is not the point. While an experience simply is, a proposition makes some sort of stand or evaluation about experience--it has content, and furthers knowledge. Your experience may be of value, but your attempts to verbally express it are not. I know that this may sound harsh, but if you really have trancended all dualities, I can't imagine something as small as substantial criticism could take the wind out of your sails.

Thinking Thanks GOD, and You flux.... Beyond belief there's faith and imagination. Teachers at times make a game of giving people problems.
Have fun with the pointleaders, and rememeber the smooth reduce friction.
Wishing You and Yours DIVINE Peace and Joy...loveAll...GODwill

[frodo]

I have moved ...'s response to me from the "If a child should ask..." thread, into this new thread, for purposes of clarity and keeping on topic.



..., I am inventing nothing, for I cannot invent. I am an individual omnipresent expression of God, of Life, of Spirit.

The awareness experience that is the oneness of God is not the permanent awareness that is the awareness that I and the Father are One. The first awareness precedes the second, and the first must be freed from the grip of one's sense of moving or being moved within one's conditioned thought world so that second can be realized, that of one's being at rest in one's omnipresent awareness - unconditioned awareness.

When we are living from our ego consciousness (the sense of being split in two, of subject and object in conflict or competition with one another) or our soul consciousness (the experience of moving one's awareness within the oneness of God) we remain "I and the Father are One", for we can never leave our own consciousness, our own awareness, but we are not One with the Father at rest. Until we realize that we are omnipresent as the Father is omnipresent, we remain in the belief that our thoughts are moving us here and there, to and fro, as beliefs, opinions and perceptions.

Our burden is indeed imagined, yet this imagined burden feels real, for thought and feeling are always one.

Hello people,
What's all this 'senior member' 'Advanced member' stuff all about? Aren't we all just people? Not sure how genuine this site is with its hierarchical business going on.
x:think::huh:

[...]

Hello people,
What's all this 'senior member' 'Advanced member' stuff all about? Aren't we all just people? Not sure how genuine this site is with its hierarchical business going on.
x:think::huh:

..great first post frodo: may it be your last...

[bito]

..nothing in this life is permanent bito. I understand you believe otherwise, but you also make an arbitrary distinction between self and Higher Self, between conditioned and unconditional. All is God; even/especially the conditioned, the egomind. There is really nothing to do but to be...

How can one "be" if one is operating within one's conditioned existence? To be caught in one's conditioning is to be caught in the experience of believing that man has a dual or relative nature, the belief that one is moving back and forth between opposite or relative conditions. How does one "be" when one's awareness appears to be moving, or is believed to be moving, back and forth between this and that?

[...]

How can one "be" if one is operating within one's conditioned existence? To be caught in one's conditioning is to be caught in the experience of believing that man has a dual or relative nature, the belief that one is moving back and forth between opposite or relative conditions. How does one "be" when one's awareness appears to be moving, or is believed to be moving, back and forth between this and that?

..because bito, there's nothing that is not God. Even being caught in one's conditioning is simply God being caught. Whatever moves, it can only be God that's moving...

..i'm talking to you from a perspective that knows you know that confusion is imagined, and i know that your only intention is to relieve that confusion from the minds of those you think are suffering, and as such i wish you well...

[bito]

Thank you, ... :)

[the_aphid]

Hello people,
What's all this 'senior member' 'Advanced member' stuff all about? Aren't we all just people? Not sure how genuine this site is with its hierarchical business going on.
x:think::huh:It is not meant to be taken very seriously, I assure you. It is just a way to identify people, and their commitments to this site. Administrators, moderators, etc. are all identifiable so that you can contact them if you have and questions, concerns, or comments. But other than that, all those titles do is establish a 'category' for the member based on their number of posts. That's all there is to it. People are not selected or nominated into any standings, it is anything but a hierarchy :P Also, it is not uncommon amongst most discussion forums around the web using similar platforms.

[Smurf]

Yes exactly, if there is no "self" then how is everyone not this "God-consciousness" in the first place?
And why would that "God-Consciousness" want to decieve itself?
You see the theory requires a "self" to choose to listen to the "God-Consciousness".