Anime/Manga Anyone? [Archive]

Jiraiyathesage

28th April 2008, 08:08 PM

Flux: To be honest I prefer manga- but that is because over the last 4 or so years i've had limited access to anime. Never seen Miyazaki stuff though, although fortunately I am a fan of the Akira film, and one day might buy the manga.

Smurf: I used to love Daft Punk but it's been a while, they were one of the bands I was into when I started developing a taste for music, alongside Nickelback and Gorillaz, Gorillaz were like DP in animation I thought, and at that time I began experimenting with anime (no clue of the concept manga at that time). I started with the likes of DBZ, Shaman King, Outlaw Star, Yugioh, Gundam Wing, and the various Tenchi series. In my various readings on manga (studies of manga in various books) I have encountered the name Interstellar 5555, and may one day reasearch it further.

Scameter: Samurai Jack is awesome- or was when I used to watch it. It is not an anime though, it is an American cartoon, created by Genndy Tartakovsky although it seems to be influenced by anime. Note: if I ever seem anti-American I am not- I just have a problem with some of the politics and cultural assumptions. I do believe some of the finest non-anime cartoons are created in America- I used to watch a whole load of them before I became interested in anime.

As manga and anime fans come, I'm pretty hardcore, so much that my eventual goal revolves around the stuff- although let me tell you translating is absolutely not a career path to look down on! Akamu bet you could tell I was a naruto fan straight away. I will be honest here, i knew of the legend of the gallant Jiraiya through research on the origins of Naruto, in the same way I knew (and bought the book) about Monkey because of research into the origins of Dragonball. Does anyone here know who Osamu Tezuka is? If so do you agree that Akira Toriyama (Dragonball (Z) manga-ka/creator) in terms of influence is the next Tezuka?

Smurf

28th April 2008, 09:31 PM

I have encountered the name Interstellar 5555, and may one day reasearch it further.

It's basically their "Discovery" album but with an awesome aci-fi anime attached to it ^_^

Jiraiyathesage

28th April 2008, 09:36 PM

It's basically their "Discovery" album but with an awesome aci-fi anime attached to it ^_^

Lol I like the sound of that! If you need help with manga I may be the man to help!

scameter

29th April 2008, 03:09 PM

Jiraiyathesage

30th April 2008, 05:26 PM

Jirai:if I ever seem anti-American I am not- I just have a problem with some of the politics and cultural assumptions.

I could understand that. Though, as I said, I have only ever been interested in two anime, and since Samurai Jack is not really anime, I've only ever liked one; and I was only really fond of one form of it, Dragonball Z. I wasn't very fond of Dragonball or GT. And I've never liked any other anime/manga I've seen or read besides it.

GT is quite crap- and that's me using language modestly. On I'ts own it's an ok series but it can't be considered canon since it has so many damn plotholes- it isn't even a creation of Toriyama. There are literally hundreds of series out there- and there is the manga too. Now Scameter if you would like some pointers just ask me, I will do my best to help.

Akamu

30th April 2008, 05:57 PM

Do you have any recommendations? I have been looking for a new manga to read for a while, but I have a horrible sense for the good ones. Right now, it is just Bleach, One Piece, and Naruto.

scameter

1st May 2008, 01:16 PM

Akamu

1st May 2008, 01:34 PM

Jirai, Toriyama didn't do GT? I didn't know that. Did he do Dragonball? And, no thanks on the pointers, as I said I'm not really a big fan of manga/anime. I've tried to watch many others in the genre but I just don't like it.

He did both Dragonball and Dragonball Z, yes. Someone else took over GT because of the popular demand of the previous anime. Like you, I only was particularly drawn to Dragonball Z. I gave GT a chance and hated it. Dragonball, I'll admit, I have barely given a chance..so I can't really pass judgment on it.

scameter

1st May 2008, 01:55 PM

Dragonball was too childish for me to be honest. And not just because Goku was a kid. The coolest part of it was the dragonball stuff and Piccolo. GT I have only seen very little of; some of the plot lines seem a bit silly to me, except perhaps the stuff with the dragons. But, my favourite part of GT was the Supersaiyan 4 and the Gogeta/Vegeto stuff. I've always liked the supersaiyan level-gaining stuff.

Jiraiyathesage

1st May 2008, 07:58 PM

Do you have any recommendations? I have been looking for a new manga to read for a while, but I have a horrible sense for the good ones. Right now, it is just Bleach, One Piece, and Naruto.

The ones you said I'm hugely into, although I don't buy the One Piece manga. As for Dragonball (as in the 1st 16 vols, I don't mean what became z- vols 17-42) you mite have just seen the early stuff and tournament stuff beacuse the King Piccolo arc is a masterpiece! I don't know if you would like Yugioh- it is good but can demand a certain taste. I'm pretty sure you might like Fullmetal Alchemist by Hiromu Arakawa- the anime is very good even dubbed but I think the manga is superior. It has well developed characters and with a female manga artist (who is also the writer- as is common in manga) is a breath of fresh air! She does female characters very well- so they aren't the typical shonen "save me" heroines. If you like action though, I would recommend highly Hunter x hunter and Yuyu Hakusho, both drawn and written by Yoshihiro Togashi. I can't tell you about the yu yu anime, but the manga is suberb. Hxh on the other hand has a brilaint anime, possibly better than the manga which I find a rarity, the manga I will say is as good as bleach, dragonball and naruto.

Scameter: when you say others in the genre you assume manga is just one genre- that is absolutely not the case- it caters for pretty much everyone. However no matter how good a story is it must have good art too and vice versa. So i can understand if you never get into it. i agree with your Gogeta comment, he is the one really cool thing in GT. A note from a veteran Dragonball fan (ie me): Gogeta is the product of the fusion dance (as seen in GT and the DBZ Janemba movie) and Vegito is the product of the Potara earrings as seen in the buu saga.

Akamu

2nd May 2008, 03:41 AM

^ Yes, I already have been through Yugioh and loved it...so good recommendation =)

As for the others, I heard Hunter x was amazingly superb...but isn't that the manga that was never finished? Or do I have my facts wrong?

Yea, I only ever did get so far into the very beginning of Dragonball before I lost interest. Another thing that hurt me is I did not begin to read it until after Dragonball Z ended. I may have compared the two unfairly.

Gogeta was indeed the best part of GT but only makes one appearance, correct? He was quite a bit more cocky in his ssj 4 form than as a regular super saiya-jin in the Janemba movie haha. My all time favorite character in DBZ was Gohan. The best saga IMO was the cell saga when he finally realized his potential. It really was a shame when his character was undermined in the 7 year time-skip. He received a little redemption after he went through the Kai's power up...but not for long =(

scameter

2nd May 2008, 12:44 PM

My favourite DBZ character was Trunks. I actually had kind of a fetish about him. I even had a romantic dream about him. So, obviously the Trunks Saga was one of my favourites. But, Vegeta was my second favourite, and I loved the Cell Saga because of how cool they were. But, as I said previously I always loved the supersaiyan stuff, especially the various levels, and the Cell Saga seemed to really explore it by showing them training and achieving a level between 1 and 2, Trunks being too muscly to even fight, etc. A great series.

Jiraiyathesage

3rd May 2008, 12:16 AM

Fave Yugioh bad guy Akamu? mine has gotta be Pegasus or Bakura. Hxh is still serialised in Japan, but it's worth reading, look for it on www.onemanga.com (btw this site has most of the stuff i will recommend to u) . Most of yu yu hakusho is there too, even though it finished long ago in Japan it still has 20 chapters or so to be translated on the site. Togashi the yu yu and hxh creator put hxh on hiatus for a few months due to illness but is writing hxh agen now. Mystic Gohan was the second most powerful Z hero, next to his daddy, son Goku! There are forums of ppl who believe mystic Gohan is equal to if not greater than SSJ3 Goku.

Scameter: Aside from the power that be Son Goku and Son Gohan, Mirai (future) Trunks is probably the most popular character, and he is probably in more Yaoi fanfics and manga than the others. Having thought about it can u imagine Piccolo Yaoi? lol. Trunks: "Take me you big green hunk of manliness!" ha ha. DBZ characters go off the scale in terms of power, and only Gods (as in fictional ones- ones in books and manga), psychics and aliens have a chance in taking them down!

Akamu

3rd May 2008, 03:51 AM

Jiraiya: Fave Yugioh bad guy Akamu? mine has gotta be Pegasus or Bakura. Hxh is still serialised in Japan, but it's worth reading, look for it on www.onemanga.com (btw this site has most of the stuff i will recommend to u) . Most of yu yu hakusho is there too, even though it finished long ago in Japan it still has 20 chapters or so to be translated on the site. Togashi the yu yu and hxh creator put hxh on hiatus for a few months due to illness but is writing hxh agen now. Mystic Gohan was the second most powerful Z hero, next to his daddy, son Goku! There are forums of ppl who believe mystic Gohan is equal to if not greater than SSJ3 Goku.

I liked Pegasus as well. He had another dimension to him at least towards the end there. I also really liked Kaiba, but I don't know if you can really count him as a "villain." Bakura's repeated attempts to mess everything up just became annoying to me. Although I liked his character.

I was under the impression that Mystic Gohan was THE most powerful un-fused Z character behind ssj4 Goku (if you count DBGT.) As I recall, Ssj3 Goku fought almost evenly (probably a little bit stronger) with Majin Buu. But then again he also fought evenly with Kid Buu (even though I don't believe him to be the strongest of the Buu's by a long shot.) Buu's form that fought Gotenks seemed to be equally as powerful with that form of Ssj3. I'm not sure whether Goku held the same power as Gotenks in the same form because fusion was supposed to increase your power for efficiently than just a regular transformation. If anything, they were probably relatively equal in power but I give Goku the advantage because of his fighting experience. Mystic Gohan however FAR outstripped Buu during his fight until he absorbed Piccolo and Gotenks. So I would say Gohan in this form is at LEAST equal with super saiyan 3 Goku...but I would argue that he actually exceeds him in power. I wonder how powerful the potara fusion would have been between Son Goku and Mystic Gohan. Of course, for the sake of storytelling, it was much better for Goku to unite with Vegeta.

How about Naruto? Fave hero, villain, character in general? Do you like where the story is going now? This opinion seems very split among readers.

Jiraiyathesage

3rd May 2008, 09:29 AM

Kaiba is an antihero- as in one of the characters who eventually turns good but can do evil at points. I am a poet and have done my fair share of fanpoetry- in fact i'm working on 7 yugioh poems for my friend. i've done the Yami Bakura, Ryo Bakura, Kisara, Pegasus and Yugi Motou ones. All that remains is Seto Kaiba and Yami Yugi! I meant Bakura's general tactical ability- how everything comes into his plan except the pharoah learning his name.

I have read a few forums posing the power of the buus and where Goku and Gohan stand in relation to them. People can think kid buu is the strongest but he is only confirmed to be the most dangerous, as in he would snuff out all the planets quicker than super buu. But Mystic Gohan beat the crap out of super buu, but there's a chance Goku could have done that too. Goku does have the edge in terms of combat genius , but Gohan wouldn't run out of energy like Goku does in his ssj3 form. Power tends to mean pretty much everything in Z so you might be right. For the story telling i agree it was better that way. But would it have made much difference? The elder kai said something along the lines of the vegeta/goku rivalry helped the strength of the fusion.

As for Naruto. Fave hero: it's not fair picking one so I will have a few. Naruto obviously. Kakashi because of his coolness. Jiraiya because of his power, in his true form wud own oro, although dont forget he was drugged in the sannin battle so cudnt fight properly. The 3rd hokage because of his marvellous effort against the 1st 2 hokages and oro. The 4th just because. Villain: Kimimaru, the guy is virtually invincible. Deidara because he reminds me of me. Kisame- because, well actualy I don't know. I think the term for him is badass. Overall fave character: probably Jiraiya since he shares my birthday and he is the best of the sannin, even though Tsunade and Oro are quite magnificent.

As for current story development it depends on if you are a Sasuke fan or not. Now I can sympathise with Sasuke's goal of a dead Itachi but that fight has went on a bit much- a bit too heavy on the genjutsu. But i am not much of a Sasuke fan, so i mite have been impatient for that stuff to end, i suspect when other battles have commenced i might enjoy the sasuke/itachi fight more. It just seemed so anticlimactic compared to Pein vs that sage (lol thin disguise). I mean come on who looks forward to a battle of emos with eye powers over a psycho vs the ultimate pervert-hero?

scameter

3rd May 2008, 09:45 AM

Jirai:"Take me you big green hunk of manliness!" ha ha.

:lol: That would be funny. Now, Gohan and Trunks, that might be hot.

Jirai: DBZ characters go off the scale in terms of power, and only Gods (as in fictional ones- ones in books and manga), psychics and aliens have a chance in taking them down!

Or Jedi. :thumbsup:

Akamu

3rd May 2008, 10:13 AM

Scameter: Or Jedi.

I'm not sure if even a Jedi would have a chance. Now, Harry Potter, that is a different story :D

Jiraiya: As for Naruto. Fave hero: it's not fair picking one so I will have a few. Naruto obviously. Kakashi because of his coolness. Jiraiya because of his power, in his true form wud own oro, although dont forget he was drugged in the sannin battle so cudnt fight properly. The 3rd hokage because of his marvellous effort against the 1st 2 hokages and oro. The 4th just because. Villain: Kimimaru, the guy is virtually invincible. Deidara because he reminds me of me. Kisame- because, well actualy I don't know. I think the term for him is badass. Overall fave character: probably Jiraiya since he shares my birthday and he is the best of the sannin, even though Tsunade and Oro are quite magnificent.

As for my heroes...obviously Naruto as you said. Shikamaru because he is just pure awesomeness and is my parallel in the manga (i am by no means saying i am a genius...our personalities just mesh.) Jiraiya of course...ero sennin! Definitely the greatest of the Sannin. Orochimaru is cool in a weird Michael Jackson sort of way. I don't really like Tsunade...at least she has not proven herself to me yet. Kakashi is really cool but I have a bias against Sharingan lol. And I am sure Minato was just awesome, though we know very little about him.

Villains: Orochimaru...I don't think he is done yet! Itachi used to be a favorite villain, but now we don't know what is going on there! Kabuto is a very interesting character, we never know what the heck is going on in his mind...he is very multidimensional. Tobi is hilarious when he Tobi and not Madara. But I am absolutely in love with the Kyuubi. I think there is so much more there that we haven't been made privy to yet.

Jiraiya: As for current story development it depends on if you are a Sasuke fan or not. Now I can sympathise with Sasuke's goal of a dead Itachi but that fight has went on a bit much- a bit too heavy on the genjutsu. But i am not much of a Sasuke fan, so i mite have been impatient for that stuff to end, i suspect when other battles have commenced i might enjoy the sasuke/itachi fight more. It just seemed so anticlimactic compared to Pein vs that sage (lol thin disguise). I mean come on who looks forward to a battle of emos with eye powers over a psycho vs the ultimate pervert-hero?

I am definitely not a Sasuke fan atm. Ideally, his mission to kill his brother was very misguided. I know it is cliche, but revenge will not help anything at all. It is better just to forget it as Kakashi said. I am glad Kishi has decided to redeem Itachi because now Sasuke may realize his sins. Although I believe he will have to ultimately pay with his life for what he has done. It is my theory that no one with Sharingan will survive the series.

IMO we need to get to Naruto's development...it has been postponed long enough. I mean he has improved a tiny bit, but there has been no real transformation in him since chapter 1. It was really cool when he first learned the rasengan, but what is all this crap with just improving the power of the jutsu? Oodama rasengan is not already powerful enough to take out virtually any target so we have to arm Naruto with a mini-warhead? I think Naruto needs to get a bit more versatile. He has a very good mind contrary to popular belief. Yes he is hot-headed and an idiot at times, but he can formulate some genius battle strategies when the time calls for it. So it is time to utilize his new understanding of his Kage Bunshins and to also learn some techniques that are not all bang.

Jiraiyathesage

3rd May 2008, 10:19 AM

"That super saiyan really was super last night!" :thumbsup:
Jedi's can kinda go under the mind power category, so jedi's ftw lol. Magic beings might stand a chance. There are plenty of ways to unfairly kill Goku, including poisoning his food lol :shakehead:

scameter

3rd May 2008, 10:19 AM

Akamu

3rd May 2008, 10:22 AM

I could definitely see a Jedi beating a DBZ guy before a Harry Potter wizard. I mean, all of their power is in their wand. Just get rid of it and you're cool. But Jedi can literally know where're you're going before you go there, and could move just as well as a DBZ guy. Especially a Sith.

lol well I was just kidding. But if you wanna get technical, it doesn't matter if a Jedi knows what Goku is going to do if he can move at the speed of light! lol. Goku could rip off a Jedi's head before it could wave his hand and say "You want stand still while I slice you with my lightsaber."

Jiraiyathesage

3rd May 2008, 10:27 AM

Yeah but there are magic users in literature who don't need wands, particularly in anime, whole genres of wand users. I don't think even Yoda has dbz speed tho!

scameter

3rd May 2008, 10:31 AM

Perhaps. Honestly something like that kind of conflict is difficult to determine, sicne they're entirely different works. And, btw Akamu, mind tricks only work on the weak-minded. :P

Akamu

3rd May 2008, 10:33 AM

Perhaps. Honestly something like that kind of conflict is difficult to determine, sicne they're entirely different works. And, btw Akamu, mind tricks only work on the weak-minded. :P

Goku was quite weak-minded haha. I could see him falling for it quite easily.:D

scameter

3rd May 2008, 10:35 AM

:P Simple doesn't necessarily mean weak-minded though. Goku seemed to have quite a high resistance to things like tricks and stress.

Jiraiyathesage

3rd May 2008, 11:01 AM

:P Simple doesn't necessarily mean weak-minded though. Goku seemed to have quite a high resistance to things like tricks and stress.

Ha you seem to be learning quite well! Simple doesn't mean stupid. It is a moot point when you can destroy a planet or even a city lol, few would really argue except others of the same level lol.

scameter

3rd May 2008, 11:09 AM

Indeed, such power does often outway ignorance or simplicity. Hence the history of power and evil in the history of human monarchies and empires.

Jiraiyathesage

3rd May 2008, 11:17 AM

Indeed, such power does often outway ignorance or simplicity. Hence the history of power and evil in the history of human monarchies and empires.

Ah I am so glad i read fairly simple shonen manga then! Politics there are simple lol- well not Fullmetal Alchemist and CERTAINLY NOT gundam wing!

scameter

3rd May 2008, 11:40 AM

lol True. :D

Jiraiyathesage

3rd May 2008, 08:08 PM

lol True. :D

Is fantasy and stuff not meant to be an escape? It's a lot more fascinating than "real life" if you ask me! Then you can go into the "waht is reality" route but i'm sure that would be off topic!

scameter

4th May 2008, 08:17 AM

Indeed fantasy and stuff is an escape, furtunately, but it can also hold alot of truth, like mythology.

Jiraiyathesage

4th May 2008, 08:57 PM

Indeed fantasy and stuff is an escape, furtunately, but it can also hold alot of truth, like mythology.

Amen to that brother! And of course mythology inspires fantasy, and in turn fantasy can create philosophical beliefs. Ah it is ever so fascinating. Lets turn this convo towards manga agen, the same applies. People get too hung up on "what is real". Does it matter if the values are being learned from manga if they improve someone's life? Does the shonen manga view of not giving up not stand because it comes from Japanese comics? Of course not. Manga and anime have so many different positive aspects about them, yet they are dismissed as merely comics. You know there are even manga graphic novels dedicated to teaching basic Japanese now. Here is a quote from Philip Pullman (the writer of the His Dark Materials books): "Stories are the most important thing in the world. Without stories we wouldn't be human beings at all."

scameter

6th May 2008, 12:36 PM

Jiraiyathesage

6th May 2008, 04:36 PM

That's probably partially true, your quote I mean, but I would think that it would be better to look at the root of human story-making, rather than merely the story-making itself, and see if that root is also special. And, I think the root of human story-making is a combination of experience, socializing, emotion and imagination/creativity.

Humans are great in the regard that they are capable of higher mental faculties than other creatures such as being able to create literature and philosophy. But that is straying from the point. As for the root of story telling well- it seems to stem from oral culture which was strongly shown in Ancient Greece. Of course the varous types of story telling are amazing things. Each form has something new to bring to the table, take for example the fluid movement of film, the narrative styles of books which arent manga eg Stephen King, JK Rowling, JRR Tolkien etc and of course (only 2 aspects of many) the artwork and various panel techniques of manga.

scameter

7th May 2008, 01:39 PM

The history of something and the root of it are quite different things however. Storytelling may have originated in ancient Greece, but it's root was the human mind.

Jiraiyathesage

8th May 2008, 03:04 PM

The history of something and the root of it are quite different things however. Storytelling may have originated in ancient Greece, but it's root was the human mind.

True true I was just using Greece as an example of oral culture, it's fascinating how people were able to remember really long poems and sagas which were written down and we can read today!

scameter

14th May 2008, 09:07 AM

Jiraiyathesage

16th May 2008, 07:09 PM

Indeed. That was practiced throughout history by many different cultures, including the Native Americans and the Norse, and also, quite interestingly, the New Testament of the Bible was originally oral, alongside Paul's letters, until the Gospels were written.

What so still a bunch of fairytails/ suppressing smiting scrolls then? lolRoals Dahl wrote better fairytales lol. I've probably offended a load of Christians but they seem to get offended fairly easily. Anyway time to veer this thread back on topic, funny how it comes back to something philosophical lol. Does anyone else find the portrayal of Kami-sama (God) in Dragonball interesting?

scameter

17th May 2008, 10:18 AM

I didn't really understand what you said anyways. :lol:

Akamu

18th May 2008, 06:04 AM

Jiraiyathesage

19th May 2008, 07:37 AM

Jiraiyathesage: Does anyone else find the portrayal of Kami-sama (God) in Dragonball interesting?

I wish I could answer with my very limited knowledge of Dragonball. However I am only familiar with Dragonball z and if there is a discernment in his portrayal between the two, then a reply from me would be immaterial. :) In DBZ, his role seems to be quite obsolete and very little emphasis is put on the character.

1st of all lol scameter- has a philosopher ever understood another? ha ha.

2nd- ah right- he plays an important part in DB but my point was the limited power of the God of Dragonball- now I don't think my Gods are that weak lol but it strikes a chord with me on the nature of imperfect Gods. In DBZ there was little emphasis on him, but it must not be forgot that Goku went to him in Dragonball in order to bring the Dragonballs back and ressurect his best friend!

Akamu

19th May 2008, 10:11 AM

Jiraiyathesage

20th May 2008, 05:54 AM

I imagine that while I thought Dragonball Z was a good manga and anime, it probably lacked certain original themes and parallels that its predecessor contained. Instead it focused on action and the appeasement of its audience. Maybe some day I will be able to go back and read through the original Dragonball with an open mind and pick out some of these interesting portrayals that you have pointed out to me. Until then, sorry for not being able to contribute much :uhoh: :)

Dbz is a classic, and Toriyama was a major influence (mainly through Dragonball), and without that we probably wudnt have some of the biggest series today. Maybe no One Piece, or Yu Yu Hakusho or Hunter X Hunter, or Bleach or Naruto! Obviously appeasing the audience is major in any writing, since that's kinda the number 1 rule! Toriyama did cave into fan pressure though, but that made the cell and buu sagas! Dragonball has things Z doesn't and vice versa. One has Goku's youth and the other has his childhood. DB has Goku vs the devil in a short match and Z has Goku vs Frieza in a long match, and so on.

Of course I've looked into the deep end of DBZ, but it kinda is my fave speciality. I know even minor character's names, but I'm a huge fan. I know way more names from Dragonball than Bleach, but with DB (I'm referring to DB and Z) most characters only have 1 name. Well you may not be able to contribute much but u can learn!

Akamu

20th May 2008, 06:00 AM

Jiraiyathesage

22nd May 2008, 04:31 AM

As for audience appeasement in DBZ, I didn't know the Cell Saga was a product of that as well...i had thought it was only the Buu Saga. IMO the series should have ended when Cell was destroyed and Goku's son, Gohan, was the new hero of the earth in place of his father. The series up until then seemed to converge upon that idea. I am also somewhat biased as Gohan was one of my favorite characters. All in all, I thought the Cell Saga meshed very nicely into the storyline. The Buu Saga, on the other hand, really seemed like a desperate stretch to keep the hype going...the series no longer felt logical or natural to me.

Yup it is widely known that Toriyama originally intended the series to end at the conclusion of the Frieza saga, with Frieza dead and possibly Goku dead too. I will point out that Toriyama intended it to end at the Cell saga with Gohan being the final hero, odds are that saga would have ended the same. Of course Gohan came back into power with his full potential unlocked in the Buu saga(s) (Mystic Gohan), but that didn't last long. But Buu saga means the pawnage that is the meaty SSJ3 Goku and of course his majesty (lol technically true with PRINCE Vegeta ha ha) Vegito. When REM sang sweetness follows maybe they referred to Buu's beating by the chocolate sweet incarnation of Vegito! If you think the end of Dragonball (z) isn't logical you sould check out the whole of Dr. Slump or Bobobo bobobobobo. Perhaps the Buu saga was meant to have the wacky Toriyama style humour seen through the 1st 16 dragonball volumes?

Akamu

22nd May 2008, 05:27 AM

Jiraiyathesage

23rd May 2008, 09:04 PM

Haha, yes, I am vaguely aware of how wacky the author can be...given many aspects of Dragonball. I just meant I felt that the saga reeked of rushed fabrication. This may have not been the case at all, just one man's opinion. Many great characters were left behind and almost forgotten, new characters were not developed so well, I did not particularly enjoy the ssj3 transformation, and other things I felt were just not up to par with this saga's predecessors. As a person who enjoys writing and story telling, I do not like it when an author is unfair to his characters...even the most sinister characters deserve respect.

No I see what you mean, and I'm not a Dragonball fan with no sense, for example I know Phoenix and the Silver Surfer could probably defeat Goku. Having said that the Phoenix is cosmic level like SS, and SS can rearrange molecules. Anyway I'm pretty sure Toriyama intended to let Gohan defeat Buu, but the fans or his almighty editor might have changed the direction, thus Goku beign the hero yet again! DBZ does leave out the weaker characters towards the end, particularly the strongest of those: Tenshinhan (Tien) and Kuririn (Krillin). This is carried into other series such as Naruto, see for example Rock Lee and Choji.

Akamu

25th May 2008, 03:31 AM

No I see what you mean, and I'm not a Dragonball fan with no sense, for example I know Phoenix and the Silver Surfer could probably defeat Goku. Having said that the Phoenix is cosmic level like SS, and SS can rearrange molecules. Anyway I'm pretty sure Toriyama intended to let Gohan defeat Buu, but the fans or his almighty editor might have changed the direction, thus Goku beign the hero yet again! DBZ does leave out the weaker characters towards the end, particularly the strongest of those: Tenshinhan (Tien) and Kuririn (Krillin). This is carried into other series such as Naruto, see for example Rock Lee and Choji.

I can maybe see it a little bit in Naruto, but I think Kishimoto has done a decent job in giving his characters their due respect...er most of them...he does not seem to write females very well (ie Tenten, Ino, Hinata). For the most part, everyone has had their chance to shine; and many keep coming back to prove themselves again like Shikamaru (future Hokage! ha). As for other characters who are seemingly left behind at the moment, the manga is not over so we may see them shine again.

At this moment in the manga, I do not know why the series isn't called "Sharingan" or "Uchiha." However, I am aware that this is perhaps just a crucial chapter in the grand scheme of things and the manga will finally begin to focus on Naruto and Konoha. How much longer do you think the manga has? I read rumors somewhere that a while ago Kishimoto said it would be ending around this time. However, I surely do not see it ending any time soon given everything that is nowhere near being resolved. There's the whole drama with Sasuke and recent revelations about his clan, Konoha, and his brother; there is Madara and Pein and their histories and defeat yet to be unraveled; there is Kabuto with the assimilated cells of Orochimaru; there is Danzou (who seems to be quite the internal threat); as well as the further development of our main characters. There are hundreds of other questions I have as well, so it would be a shame if the manga is ended without addressing at least most of them.

Jiraiyathesage

25th May 2008, 09:47 PM

Kishimoto does do a good job in characterisation, as for female characters, Toriyama didn't do too bad. Bulma and Chichi are very strong willed. In Naruto there is still the chance of Choji going butterfly agen (he must have increased his base strength since then) and Rock Lee using the gates but both those techniques can mean death. That means it is possible but I'm not sure if they will need to, what with all the other young Konohanese. Heh and Shikamaru would refuse the Hokage title, heh only 1 man will achieve that!

Yup after the death of Itachi and other things the story will focus back on Naruto, particularly when he will get full control of the kyuubi. I'm not sure about length, it mite last maybe another year or so but we don't know if Kishi has any more villains planned. It sounds like you are up to date so I can kinda say this. There are 5 akatsuki remaining, although in terms of spare bodies there are 9 akatsuki members left. I had almost forgotten kabuto, an interesting point. Although by the time team Konoha get to him after wiping out the Akatsuki he shouldn't be a problem. I doubt kishi wuld leave us without answers since he has started to explain deeper Konoha's origins. Whether Mdara is lying or not is the thing...

Akamu

26th May 2008, 10:18 AM

Jiraiyathesage: Heh and Shikamaru would refuse the Hokage title, heh only 1 man will achieve that!

I am one of the few who deviate from the prediction that Naruto will secure this position. I have several reasons for thinking this. First of all, it is Naruto; he is hyperactive, a go getter, and needs constant stimulation in his environment. The Hokage sits in his office all day receiving requests for missions, delegating these to other shinobi, and physically deteriorates due to lack of physical activity and time to train. I really believe Naruto will follow in Jiraiya's footsteps. He will be offered the job and then be mature enough to realize his dream of defending Konoha can be fulfilled much more effectively by actively defending it on missions and such. As Hokage, Naruto's abilities and persona would be undermined IMO. So like Jiraiya, he may turn down the title.

As for Shikamaru...I feel he has thus far been groomed to be the next Hokage. His natural abilities also perfectly suit the position. The Hokage is the head of a countries military prowess. Shikamaru possesses both the intellectual aptitude and strategical talents necessary to command the Fire Country's military arm. He does not like being out in the action; he is one who likes to run things from behind the scenes...and this is what the Hokage does unless some huge threat infiltrates the village. But even in this case, Naruto will still be a ninja of Konoha and thus able to protect his home. Also, I feel as it has been foreshadowed somewhat that he will get the job. One scene in particular is when he was recently playing shogi with Asuma before he was killed. Asuma was explaining to Shikamaru that his abilities at shogi meshed with the workings of Konoha. He is the knight and protector of the King (the younger generations of Konoha.) He has also been shown performing special tasks under direct command of Tsunade...he seems to at least have her favor and her trust. She even consults him for militaristic advice, not to mention she was the one who named him Chuunin pre-timeskip.

I think it is a misconception that strongest shinobi must be Hokage. History has already told us that this can't be true as Tsunade is Hokage at the moment by default. It appears as if the title is fulfilled by the person best suited for the job. I would be saddened to see Naruto confined to a desk for the rest of his life...however I think Shikamaru would thrive under such conditions despite his laziness (which he has definitely taken steps to overcome and grow as a leader.)

Jiraiyathesage

26th May 2008, 09:43 PM

First of all some kudos to you Akamu, for I am enjoying this thread thoroughly, then again I usually do when fans are reasonable, and not like in some forums where ppl say things like "Superman is teh broken powered one" or "nobody can beat Son Goku." DBZ fans can be just as bad- especially if they havent read the 1st 16 vols of DB lol. Anyway back to the subject in hand. It's hard to imagine Naruto not being the Hokage, because it his dream and Naruto not becoming Hokage would be like Luffy not becoming the king of pirates! Now Naruto is very similar to Jiraiya (like Sasuke and Sakura are to Oro and Tsunade). Jiraiya rejected the role of Hokage when declared to be Hokage by the elders pre-search for Tsunade, but if you remember from the conclusion of the Pein fight his greatest regret was not bringing Orochimaru back. History repeated itself with Naruto but Naruto never gave up on bringing Sasuke back.

There is no doubting Shikamaru's intelligence. In the Hidan battle Shikamaru proves it's how the power is used, not how much of it there is. In terms of raw power Hidan probably had it, but Shikamaru used his powers in such a tactical way he won. This strays away from the DBZ "I am more powerful than thou therefore I win" syndrome, being closer to "the strongest doesn't necessarily win" Hunter X Hunter mentality. It is possible Naruto in defeating Pein (come on Shikamaru avenged you know who so Naruto will do the same), will become Hokage but get bored of the paperwork. If he quit being hokage then he will have achieved his dream, and so that's ok.

The question is if Shika would want to be Hokage, your argument is persuasive but I don't know if Shika would be happy with all that paperwork lol. If a hero has earned candidacy for Hokageship (lol that's the 1st time I've said that) then in theory they should be allowed to reject it. Having said that the Konoha elders seemed very reluctant with Jiraiya rejecting the role until he suggested the Queen of elixirs and slugs- Lady Tsunade to be the 5th Hokage.

There is another idea I suggested to a friend a while ago (at around the time the Hidan/Kuzaku arc was 1st online in English). This idea works in the context of your particular point. My point was that Naruto might sacrifice himself to take out the Akatsuki. His brave sacrifice might make him honourary Hokage ie his face placed on the mountain with the other Hokages. In the light of sacrifices I have also considered Gai, Rock Lee and Choji. Gai and Rock Lee are the most likely contenders to take out Kisame Hoshigaki, and I would like to see Butterfly Choji kick arse as Butterfly Choji.

Akamu

27th May 2008, 03:34 AM

Your idea about Naruto sacrificing himself and getting his head carved into the mountain is good...but I ultimately feel like Naruto won't sacrifice himself. I actually think Sasuke will be the one to sacrifice himself so Naruto can claim victory. There is no other way for Sasuke to repent for his sins. But of course all things are possible at this point.

I have a question though...who would complain more about sitting in a desk, forever condemned to paper work and government meetings, Naruto or Shikamaru/someone else? I really think given Shikamaru's recent maturity (I mean he became a man recently...Naruto has yet to do this) and has overcoming of laziness places him much more suitable to the life of Hokage. I believe Naruto will be first choice yes, but like Jiraiya he will turn it down and pass it on to someone more compatible with the position. In doing this, he will have technically realized his childhood dream...but it just seems that dream will be more of an actuality if he remains an active shinobi and I think someday he will grow to realize this. I mean when has Kishimoto ever been so clearly predictable? It would be just like him to groom his audience into believing beyond a doubt that Naruto will of course be the head of Konoha some day...that is his reason for fighting. Hmm but what was Sasuke's reason for fighting? Revenge. And what is going to happen to him now that he is (maybe) realizing the truth? Often times what we use to define ourselves no longer applies at some point in the future.

I am very much enjoying this thread as well. Long ago I gave up on other forums to discuss anime and manga on lol for the very reasons you stated. Naturally, I thought discussion of such things had come to an end for me as it is difficult to find fans elsewhere. But I am glad there are a few, very intelligent and reasonable fans here on this board. I only wish I had the knowledge you did about anime/manga. Working on it :thumbsup:

Jiraiyathesage

27th May 2008, 08:55 AM

I don't want my idea to be true, because I do want Naruto to live, it was just an idea that came up one day. Sasuke hasn't really done anything wrong, yes he left the village when it was in crisis, but he has yet to harm other Konohonians except of course Naruto, but I stick to that as a draw. Forget Sasuke being portrayed as a whiny little emo for now, don't forget he has took out 2 Akatsuki members (though he took out brilliant Deidara!) and after his current crisis may help take down Madara, but I reckon it's gonna take everyone to bring him down.

Now I was thinking there Kakashi would be a good replacement if Naruto or Shikamaru didn't want to be Hokage. Of course it is rather presumptious to talk about the 6th Hokage since Tsunade doesn't show any signs of retiring yet! After Akatsuki is defeated she might let the new generation have a say. Of course there is no guarantee the Akatsuki will all die, some might repent but it's unlikely lol. As far as predictable, well the Uchiha battle was inevitable but the way it was planned by Itachi (I'm trying to be really careful not to leave spoilers where lurkers can read here), that was fairly unpredictable if we believe in part what Madara is saying is true. But he (Kishimoto) needs to have some predictability- although I point out I never believed Pein was Naruto's father, after all there are other characters with Naruto fluffy blond hair- like Tsunade's little brother Nawaki. I can discuss these little details forever!

Thing is if Sasuke realises the truth he might try to protect Naruto and die. However he might come back to Konoha hailed a hero, maybe not. Typically exiles if they return are executed as is the case in our own world's history, particularly England. Naruto will not let him be executed, and nor will the 5 allies from the retrieval arc (Shikamaru, Neji, Choji, Kiba and Lee). This is speculation, and I don't like making predictions with manga, but this is interesting stuff nonetheless.

I love reading the manga but it's great to discuss it with people and learn of other people's views, which is why I am a lurker and a writer in forums. I am a true fan- that is I am controlled enough not to become biased. In fact if someone tells me of a more powerful character than Son Goku, I won't flat out refute their argument. Odds are I will probably become interested in that character or series. For example I was reading a "who can beat Goku" thread, and the name Dark Schneider came up. I researched the name further and got hooked to Bastard!! which is a good manga.

I am a dedicated fan of One Piece, Bleach and Naruto so I am horrified to see flame wars between various fangroups of those respective series arguing blindly (as in I love X character therefore they are the best regardless of other characters powers). I used to be a member of the superhero hype forum, and there were a few great guys there, who I got along with well. However after direct experience of a Superman vs Goku argument I quit the site, and I think forums for a little while, since the argument just got retarded, especially fans on both sides using real world physics to try and outdo the other side's character. Well I don't know if I'm very intelligent, I consider myself intelligent but in my own view I am not at the level I wish to achieve, but that level includes the Japanese language and more manga knowledge anyway! My ultimate purpose in life involves manga, so at my level of dedication it's only natural I would have picked up a thing or two on the subject.

Akamu

27th May 2008, 09:18 AM

Jiraiyathesage: I don't want my idea to be true, because I do want Naruto to live, it was just an idea that came up one day. Sasuke hasn't really done anything wrong, yes he left the village when it was in crisis, but he has yet to harm other Konohonians except of course Naruto, but I stick to that as a draw. Forget Sasuke being portrayed as a whiny little emo for now, don't forget he has took out 2 Akatsuki members (though he took out brilliant Deidara!) and after his current crisis may help take down Madara, but I reckon it's gonna take everyone to bring him down.

The only thing I disagree with about Sasuke is that he dedicated his life to revenge. Revenge defined Sasuke and now that he has realized it, his "way of the ninja" is gone. He is very vulnerable at the moment...I mean he has no purpose. I am really afraid of what Madara may do to his mind. But I say he must pay for his sins because he was offered an alternative to his vindicative lifestyle. He was warned time and time again that revenge only leads to suffering...and look where he is now. Revenge is an act of ultimate selfishness IMO. I mean what does revenge accomplish except the illusory satisfaction one thinks they can derive from it. Revenge won't bring back his dead friends and relatives and revenge won't make up for the life Sasuke threw away...it is only in perceived self-interest that Sasuke acted in the way he did. In exchange for this "false" comfort, Sasuke forsook those who would be true family and friends...those who would have truly made him feel at ease over time. I personally feel that this blatant disregard of love and support must be punished at some point. It may not be with his life (I only say it might be because Sasuke is both in debt to Naruto and because I feel that Sharingan must vanish..it is a "cursed" lineage after all) but he will have to make amends eventually.

Yes, it is silly to speculate on who will be the 6th as we have no idea what plans fate has for Princess Tsunade. She stated herself that Kakashi is probably at the top of the list for successor....but I think he would look weird in Hokage attire and that little headdress :D If Tsunade croaks any time soon, then there is absolutely no way Naruto can take the title in his current state. So if she kicks it in the near future, it may be safe to say that Kakashi will get it. However if she can hold on a few years, then I believe the top candidates are Naruto, Shikamaru...and uhh I don't really know who else...Konohamaru? lol

Feel free to change the subject at any time if Naruto or this aspect of Naruto is getting dull ha. It is just the manga I am most familiar with at the moment...but I don't mind learning!

Jiraiyathesage

27th May 2008, 06:38 PM

Hmm perhaps this is true, though it really is gonna be hard to take down Madara, Pein has nothing on him. I didn't really want Itachi to be a good guy, it's just like Snape in another series lol. I was really looking forward to writing my poem Itachi the killer (the name a semi-pun of the film Ichi the killer). Revenge is very powerful and if Sasuke had lived the alternative, he would not be close to Naruto in power (though aiming for that is jealousy). Well the Uchihas are all about illusion lol, the Uchiha fight seemed so anti-climactic after the previous battle didn't it? "Oh look Itachi has just moved his chair!" This is in contrast with the huge show of power shown by "Mr. my throat is crushed, I've lost an arm but I'm still gonna fight ya!"

I personally prefer the Byakugan because it doesn't have the retarded emo kid fanbase. I would like to see more of the less used characters. Thus I enjoyed Shino stepping in, even though Madara buggered off soon after with his teleporting jutsu. Tsunade will only die if someone really powerful invades the village or if she leaves the village, but I want to see Naruto reach Hokage level then. Jiraiya is the strongest of the sannin, fact, overall I mean. Sennin mode is so awesome! I was really looking forward to Kisame fighting Hebi, I hope Kishimoto isn't trying to make us forget, honestly I have had quite enough of the Uchiha stuff even though Madara is cool. I kinda wanna see less talking more fighting. Kisame is one of my 3 favourite Akatsuki members, alongside Madara and Deidara. Even though I think Orochimaru is a piece of snakeshit (albeit a classic villain) he has the best henchmen (the sound 5) in manga, the Sasuke retrieval arc is my favourite.

Kakashi with the Hokage hat would be the sex lol, whatever he does he is cool. Gai is brilliant too, go youth lol. I still find it amusing everytime I read Kisame describing Gai as "that strange beast", ironic for a fishman. Since when was Naruto dull? (except growing old Uchiha stuff). Apologies if I keep making Dragonball references, it really is a huge influence to my fave series. Since Dragonball is the model many of my faves are based from it is easy for me to draw comparisons. And don't worry I only really read the manga too. You seem to know your stuff about Naruto, although I'm curious what other series are you into? Of course if the answer to that is nothing or little this thread can easily become a place of recommendation, I know a few series well!

Akamu

31st May 2008, 01:02 PM

Sorry for the delay in replying...have been away. I don't know how up to date you are (although I think it safe to assume you are as "with it" as you can be), but I just wanted to comment on the latest chapter in Naruto...so if you have not read it, then the below will be a spoiler.

I figured this might happen. One who defines himself by revenge will forever seek it. Since his one and only target is now out of the picture, he no longer has any reason for existing...so of course he just changes targets. I am glad I now have a logical reason to dislike Sasuke...but how is Naruto going to close this gap? It is still painful to watch him. Apparently there is going to be an operation crush Konoha part 2. And just when I thought Sharingan couldn't vary anymore...

As for other anime/manga, I am limited in knowledge concerning present ones. I am versed in Dragonball Z, Yugioh etc but I am not exactly sure which ones out right now are good to delve into. Hopefully you will help me out with this :)

Jiraiyathesage

31st May 2008, 07:42 PM

Nah it's cool. I am usually up to the newest chapter although the next few weeks might be an exception since I'm not sure if I am to go with my temporary self-ban of manga, it's a long story but i will probably be reading again soon. It depends on how you read what is said by Sasuke, does he mean he will try to wipe out Konoha? Or as someone expressed on another forum maybe he means the elders and that, especially Danzou. Now I really dislike Danzou so it would please me if he was killed by team Eagle/hawk. And come on like Sasuke's team will be able to wipe out Konoha, that's impossible.

Sad to say but Naruto might surpass Sasuke and eventually realise he must kill him to protect Konoha. I was thinking at the second last chapter Sasuke would be manipulated by Madara, but Sasuke seems to be going against the wishes of Itachi, if we are to assume the words of Madara are true. Some Sasuke fans argue Sasuke isn't being maniplated by Madara, but just look at Madara's eye on I think the second last page. Itachi wouldn't want revenge, as Madara gave the reason Itachi implanted the Amateratsu in Sasuke. As for Naruto I don't know how he will get stronger but he will. I'm more interested in his reaction to Jiraiya's death, and of course where the heck that frog is, unless it will be revealed next issue! It's likely Naruto will learn of his lineage soon.

Some present manga can be overrated but some good. Bleach might be an interesting place to start but I highly reccomend Hunter X Hunter, it is vastly underrated. If you want something that is quite different in terms of hero saves everyone shonen try HxH or Fullmetal Alchemist. I may know a fair bit about manga- but I have a lot to read- some new some old.

xChristine_Mariiex

18th June 2008, 12:16 PM

I love anime, I'm addicted, lol. I love Fruit Basket and Elfein Lied, I think their my favorite. Yet, I still love Pokemon.

God, I'm such a dork. 8)

Akamu

19th June 2008, 01:13 AM

I love anime, I'm addicted, lol. I love Fruit Basket and Elfein Lied, I think their my favorite. Yet, I still love Pokemon.

God, I'm such a dork. 8)

Haha, I liked Pokemon in its time...and before it went overboard IMO. I have never seen Fruit Basket or Elfein Lied, but maybe they are worth checking out? I think we are all dorks here...but it is an attractive quality is it not? :D

Jiraiyathesage

19th June 2008, 09:09 AM

Haha, I liked Pokemon in its time...and before it went overboard IMO. I have never seen Fruit Basket or Elfein Lied, but maybe they are worth checking out? I think we are all dorks here...but it is an attractive quality is it not? :D

People think I'm obsessive now- they don't know how much I've toned down since my Pokemon days- funnily enough I was the 1st one out of my friend group back then who gave up on it and moved onto greater things. As for the word dork it's just another word for the mainstream culture to use against a subculture of people they don't understand. I say that not in a teenage "they don't understand us" way but as someone who has wrote about it academically in a recent cultural studies essay I did quite well in. I wouldn't describe myself as a dork, I might occasionally joke about being a nerd but it's not something I actually apply to myself, I am just me.

To answer your question though Akamu, if you don't hurt anyone it can't be a bad quality. Without passion the world would be a worse off place. I just noticed your smiley at the end of your post, but if I get started I sometimes don't notice these things! Not much bothers me, I am quite a liberal person so I am usually pretty relaxed but I do have a few touchy areas. Manga and anime are in that group! If anyone throws that "It's not real so it doesn't matter, get a life and live in the real world" crap at me I will simply reply intelligently though passionately. If someone is willing to do something as unfulfilling and pointless as attempting to belittle others and act like sheep, well let them waste their time. While they look for ways to try and use "insulting" words on those they don't like, we can discuss what we love to our hearts content.

Akamu

19th June 2008, 11:39 AM

Don't worry, Jiraiya, I was just attempting to throw a little humor around haha...I did not mean anything literally.

Taeguk

20th June 2008, 12:18 AM

Jiraiyathesage

26th June 2008, 08:29 PM

Fruits Basket is alright. I think I prefer Ah! My Goddess! though. :)

Lately I've been getting into anything that's by CLAMP---in particular X and xxxHolic, the latter of which is probably one of the most unique animes I've seen in a while...very distinctive art style. And Magic Knight Rayearth (also by CLAMP) is a very cute magical girl anime that seems very generic until you get to the end....

Furuba in manga form is excellent. I'm still most comfortable with shonen, but I'm expanding. There's nothing wrong with generic stuff all the time, I mean for all the titles I read they can be pretty predictable, yet they still remain distinct. I'm not really up to date with the new anime or whatever, quite frankly I don't care, but as for older stuff I would praise highly both Trigun and Outlaw Star.