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View Full Version : Association, Contemplation, Concentration and Meditation


Vlatko
16th March 2008, 01:35 AM
Thinking… What is thinking?

The only way to partially answer this question is to look at ourselves and analyze our thinking. I will begin with the ordinary thinking. Ordinary everyday thinking is very chaotic. Thoughts are coming randomly without any particular pattern. They have nothing in common; they are only coming on our minds with association. If you really analyze the thoughts you will see that they can only be drawn from our past or they can be imaginative. The imaginative thoughts are the very same thoughts that are coming from the past but they are only colored, slightly changed for the purpose to fit the future events and that is truly impossible.

Ok than, what do I mean by association? Well when you are doing some activity, your mind is thinking something, since the thinking is continuous 24/7 process. From there Descartes have said “Cogito ergo sum - I think therefore I am” But that thinking is with associations.

For example: You are walking on the street, or you are in the classroom and through the window you are seeing some object or subject. Actually you don’t have to see anything. You will remember what you sow previously during the day or the day before. Let say you start to think about some dog that you sow and the association starts.

Than you are reminded of your own dog, how you used to play together. Than you remember or associate how one day your dog got lost and after a wile you found the dog at the neighbor’s house. Than you recall that there lived one beautiful girl. You met her back than. At this point a smile is spreading on your face, but you are not aware of that. You are in some kind of dream-like state. The process continues. You are reminded of the first date with that beautiful girl. Than you recall about some drunken boys that started a fight with you that night and the date turn out to be a disaster.

At this point your face is becoming sad but you are not aware of that. Than you will start to imagine how would life be if the date was perfect back than. After a while you are back with your thoughts about some particular boy from that night. You know that he died recently from cancer and you start to feel regret. At his funeral you met another girl and now she is your wife and on and on…

Remember all that started with the dog on the street. This associative thinking is consuming large part of our daily thought process and basically it is made of thoughts about the past or future. It is some kind of day dreaming and it is very similar to the actual night dreaming when we sleep. This is the simplest form of thinking and most of the people at the most of the time are thinking this way.

The second form of the thinking is contemplation. Contemplation basically is capability one to narrow the thoughts to a particular theme or a problem. Than the associative thinking stops and here the thoughts are aimed to particular object or subject or confided to a small area of concern.

For example you start to think about “Whether saving the endangered species in this world is truly necessary or not” and the thinking process is concerned only with this. You start to draw conclusions from your own understanding in a most possible logical way, trying to prove something or to solve the problem. Contemplation can be about anything: God, weather, some person, scientific matter etc. This form of thinking is not chaotic; it’s linear, going in a straight single line. However thoughts again are drawn from your own experiences from the past, or from books, persons or any other sources. Also you maybe applying skills through the thought process that you acquired in the past, therefore you are yet concerned with what you already know trying to discover something new through contemplation.

The third way is concentration and this way is the way of the Yoga. In this form of thinking you thoughts are concerned with one and only with one spot. Through training you can concentrate your thoughts on a single spot by looking at it or by thinking of it. Yogis are trained to do this. When you are making some asana (posture in Yoga) you are required to focus and think only on some particular part of your body.

For example just to think about your nose and nothing else. Or you can concentrate and focus yourself only on some bodily process, like breathing. Just be aware of how the air is entering and coming out from your nose. This looks very simple but it’s very difficult in practice. Once when you have a glimpse of success than it’s becoming very easy and it looks like it is natural to you. Over time with practice you can easily concentrate your self on the objects or subjects around you or you can focus yourself on to you.

Your awareness will sharpen and you will look the surrounding in a very different way, with a different quality. This practice will become your life and you will change yourself totally, forever. After a while, since this feeling of concentration will become intrinsic for you, without effort you will be able to concentrate or be aware of almost everything around you and now that will bring relaxation and new insight to you. That is why the Yogis are very calmed, relaxed with a stone dead face; and very healthy also.

The final way is meditation. I’m not saying here “the final way of thinking” because the meditation is “not thinking at all”. I think that meditation is the most misunderstood or misinterpreted concept of all from the western societies. All Eastern concepts are misinterpreted in some way by the Westerners because these concepts are pregnant with lots of meanings or with a whole description and they have to be translated with one word. Even they are not properly described because the very eastern mind is totally different from the western one. The Western mind is rooted on logic and the Eastern on meditation. You can not describe meditation with logic.

Anyhow you can not force meditation on to you; you can only become meditative when you are really prepared. Meditation is basically transcending the thoughts or the mind itself. Many people are making mistake when they are saying that you will sit in a posture and meditate by imagining nice places or people that will bring pleasant feelings to you. Or when they say you will sit and force yourself not to think. This is absurd.

I say that to meditate you need not to force yourself on to anything. Meditation can only come to you when you pass, practice and fully realize the previous three ways of thinking. After a certain time (depends on the person) you will sit in a posture that is the most comfortable for you (but not for sleeping) and you will let it go. Do not force any thoughts; do not judge the thoughts that will come on your mind as good or bad, just be witness of them like you are witness of the clouds on the sky. This also sounds very absurd, because how you will witness your thoughts? You can only witness them with another thought.

But don’t worry, if the time is ripe you will witness them as separate from you or your mind and from there the transcending of the mind starts. Than you will start to realize that there are gaps between thoughts and that those gaps are consisted of nothing. Those gaps will become bigger and bigger and you will finally “explode” and find yourself in a “no-thought”, “no-mind” state. You can also call this state “nervous breakdown”. You will realize that you are not mind but vast infinite consciousness. There will be no fear, no death, no ego, no nothing…

After that, of course, you can utilize any thinking you want but you will know something that is grater than you, something that is unique.

Cheers, Vlatko

scameter
16th March 2008, 04:41 PM
I think that thinking is (no pun intended) our ability to process information we receive from our senses and from other parts of our brain, such as our subconscious and our emotions. When that information comes to the focus of our mind, we attempt to process it by thinking.

francis
16th March 2008, 05:06 PM
Great post Vlatko :applause:

No, scameter, I think you have missed it completely.

I’d suggest it goes something like this :

Through the process of awareness we slowly become to understand what we really are down below the ego image, and we wake up to what life really is.

scameter
16th March 2008, 05:15 PM
You don't need to tell me I'm wrong. I already know it.

francis
16th March 2008, 06:08 PM
scameter, I was not necessarily implying you were wrong. I could be wrong. I thought you were missing the point. I think you could add to the conservation if you explained why you think you are wrong.

scameter
17th March 2008, 04:04 PM
:think: So, by telling me I've entirely missed the point, which obviously means that you know what the point is, that's not telling me I was wrong? Is me missing the point not wrong?

francis
17th March 2008, 04:28 PM
:think: So, by telling me I've entirely missed the point, which obviously means that you know what the point is, that's not telling me I was wrong? Is me missing the point not wrong?

No, not wrong.

scameter
17th March 2008, 04:48 PM
Ok. So, I guess what I said isn't valid. But, to reply to what you said, I don't think I missed the point at all.

francis
17th March 2008, 04:54 PM
Ok. So, I guess what I said isn't valid. But, to reply to what you said, I don't think I missed the point at all.

So why did you say you were wrong ???

scameter
17th March 2008, 04:57 PM
Well, as I said, I thought you were implying that I was wrong, by saying I entirely missed the point. But, since you didn't mean that, I take back what I said. But, in regards to what I said about me always being wrong, I was essentially being sarcastic, which I am also sorry for. I acted hastily and out of emotion, and so I fell into error.

francis
17th March 2008, 06:20 PM
Well scameter, truth be known, it was a bit of a call out ;)

The point I’m making is there is a difference between being aware of a thought, compared to thinking a thought.

The rest is from Mindfulness In Plain English. (http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html)

The object of Vipassana practice is to learn to pay attention. We think we are doing this already, but that is an illusion. It comes from the fact that we are paying so little attention to the ongoing surge of our own life experiences that we might just as well be asleep. We are simply not paying enough attention to notice that we are not paying attention.

Through the process of mindfulness, we slowly become aware of what we really are down below the ego image. We wake up to what life really is. It is not just a parade of ups and downs, lollipops and smacks on the wrist. That is an illusion. Life has a much deeper texture than that if we bother to look, and if we look in the right way.

Vipassana is a process of self-discovery, a participatory investigation in which you observe your own experiences while participating in them, and as they occur.

The process of mindfulness is really quite different from what we usually do. We usually do not look into what is really there in front of us. We see life through a screen of thoughts and concepts, and we mistake those mental objects for the reality. We get so caught up in this endless thought stream that reality flows by unnoticed. We spend our time engrossed in activity, caught up in an eternal pursuit of pleasure and gratification and an eternal flight from pain and unpleasantness. We spend all of our energies trying to make ourselves feel better, trying to bury our fears. We are endlessly seeking security. Meanwhile, the world of real experience flows by untouched and un-tasted.


Hope it makes sense :)

scameter
18th March 2008, 03:51 PM
A call out? As in, to reveal why I often say that I'm wrong?

francis
18th March 2008, 07:28 PM
A call out? As in, to reveal why I often say that I'm wrong?

Thanks, scameter that about sums it up.

It’s true, I was back-peddling a bit for saying you completely missed the point, but I wasn’t getting the sarcasm.

We all have our opinions :rolleyes:

I’d much prefer to hear why you think you are right, rather than apologies for thinking you are wrong. At least that way the discussion continues, and we can all learn from each other’s opinions.

Cheers :)

Shenpa
19th March 2008, 11:26 AM
Francis's comment to Scameter--- I’d much prefer to hear why you think you are right, rather than apologies for thinking you are wrong. At least that way the discussion continues, and we can all learn from each other’s opinions.

I think the way you two are arguing this post could continue for a very long time. :p

The topic itself is of another issue and seems hard to debate. After all, most would think our thoughts (90% of the time) are completely random and not relevant to the current situation. The methods given which are used to transcend the egoic mind are also straight forward and hard to debate.

However, it was not all summary of Association, Contemplation, Concentration, and Meditation. The last aspect, that of meditation, you claim that it is a way of transcendence. There are two ways I can interpret what you meant by transcendent

First,
By saying transcendent, you meant that it was apart from but not better than the associated thinking.

Or second,
By saying transcendent, you meant that it was above or better than associated thinking

Either way, I would have to disagree that meditation is the practice of transcending anything. If anything, meditation is a way to de-transcend the concept that the mind can be transcendent. When you say that it is transcendent, you are implying that it is better than the current state. Thus, you are also implying that some people are not in it right now.

When in fact, Meditation and concentration practices are just ways of grounding one’s self in what is. It is about realizing that there is nothing to transcend. It is realizing that the image painted in the mind is just a concept and true nature has always been here, in this moment.

So when you state,

“This practice will become your life and you will change yourself totally, forever.”


I ask, how can anything become your life? And what is there to change?

Isn’t this moment, this breath, this blink, this comment, this heart beat, all there truly is?

Vlatko
22nd March 2008, 05:47 AM
Shenpa: The last aspect, that of meditation, you claim that it is a way of transcendence. There are two ways I can interpret what you meant by transcendent
First,
By saying transcendent, you meant that it was apart from but not better than the associated thinking.
Or second,
By saying transcendent, you meant that it was above or better than associated thinking
Either way, I would have to disagree that meditation is the practice of transcending anything.

I really don't like to talk about the true meaning of the words, but if you insist here is the thesaurus (http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/transcend) to help us.

Main Entry: transcend
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: surpass
Synonyms: be superior, beat, best, better, eclipse, exceed, excel, go above, go beyond, leave behind, outdo, outrival, outshine, outstrip, outvie, overstep, overtop, rise above, top, transform
Antonyms: fail, lose

I interpret "transcending" only in one way and that is going beyond or realizing the true nature of something. When you're done with it of course maybe you will realize that this process of "transcendentation" made you aware that there was nothing to transcend in a first place, which is very paradoxical, but yet by doing that you've transcended something. :)

Shenpa:Isn’t this moment, this breath, this blink, this comment, this heart beat, all there truly is?

Yes maybe it is all there truly is, but I think we are not really aware of it since our thinking 90% of the time is not connected with what we actually do, like you've mentioned.

Cheers, Vlatko