Inherent Talent

[scameter]

Does the individual human being have any abilities that they are born with, or talents, or is everything learned, and if so, is every person exactly the same at birth potential-wise? Disregarding disabilities and other physical problems.

[sonrisa]

I think so yes. I have always been able to draw. I can't remember not drawing. I mean, it's so simple- you put down what you see on a piece of paper, like writing except you're making a picture. It took me a long time to realize some people simply cannot draw. I was teaching kids in a summer camp how to draw, & no matter what I did, no matter what tricks & techniques I showed these kids to help them draw or paint, some of them just could not get the hang of either one. They simply could not do it. As a kid I never needed help drawing or painting, altho from time to time teachers would show me things that improved my abilities.

otoh, you don't want to hear me sing. I would love to be able to do it, but I can't.

I'm not much of a seamtress either. But my sister is. She can run up an item of clothing in a day or two, sometimes without a pattern, & it always looks store bought. She gave me this shirt this past Xmas- really pretty- & when I went to wash it there was no laundry instruction tag on it. I thought, why did she rip out the tag? It took a few minutes before it finally dawned on me that she had made the thing. You would never guess, until you went looking for the tag.

[Thomas Knierim]

Scameter: Does the individual human being have any abilities that they are born with, or talents...

Short answer: yes! We are certainly not born as "blank slates", as some people have assumed in the past. Observation confirms this over and over again.

Cheers, Thomas

[scameter]

Sonrisa: otoh, you don't want to hear me sing. I would love to be able to do it, but I can't.

I feel the same way about drawing/art. I would love to do it, to express myself visually, but I simply cannot. But, my sister is an amazing drawer, and she's 12.

Thomas:Short answer: yes! We are certainly not born as "blank slates", as some people have assumed in the past. Observation confirms this over and over again.

Do you think our inherent talents are genetic, spiritual, or what?

[Flux]

While I don't think that we are born with specific "talents" so to speak, I do think that we are all born with varried collection of strengths and weaknesses that later manifest as talent as they are applied to things. Although not everyone can run a marathon or revolutionize an academic field, I think that talent comes from a more or less even mix of the innate and environmental factors.

[Thomas Knierim]

Scameter: Do you think our inherent talents are genetic, spiritual, or what?

Spiritual vs. genetic - I don't think there's a difference.

What concerns inherited vs. acquired, intelligence research suggests that talents are to a large degree innate; I'd say 70%-90% in most cases.

Cheers, Thomas

[scameter]

Do you (not just Thomas but anyone of course) think that there is much variation between the talents of different individuals?

[Shenpa]

The Nature vs. Nurture Argument: I love it.

I am inclined to believe through subjective experience that certain talents are more inherent in birth. Some people do show natural aptitudes for certain talents. However, I also think that natural aptitude can be a double edged sword, to borrow an old cliché.

My current profession brings me close to both categories of people, and I have noticed an all too common occurrence between the two.

First, there are the naturally gifted people. Some, but by no means all, have used their natural talents in a poor way. They are the ones who always got away with not studying till the night before but still managed to pass with good grades. They used the talent only when they had to.

Next, there are the ones who don't have a natural gift and struggle. Most, but again by no means all, have built the skill from the ground up. They struggled over every step and still seemed to not do as good as the naturally gifted ones. if effort were the determining factor on the grade, the ones without talent would be the ones with the higher marks.

When both of these types of people enter a different environment, however, it is usually the ones who are not gifted with the inherent talent who will get by better. They didn't milk the skill only when they needed, they earned it, and along with earning it, they developed talents which weren't inherent or determined through genetics, like determination, integrity, and, most importantly, the knowledge that even if they aren't born with a natural talent, they can still earn it.

(Incoming life story :lol: )

But this is not the subjective experience I was referring too. I learned about this the hard way. I was born with Dyslexia. Everyone my own age was better at reading and writing than I was. The contrast between my own ability and other students was very apparent; and not only did I notice the difference between myself and other students, but I also noticed the various aptitudes people had between others without my disability.

When I was in the third grade, my mother was told, in front of me, that I would never be able to read by my teacher. I see now that I shouldn't have believed it, but I did despite what my mother said. I gave up; and, in the sixth grade, I dropped out of school completely. I thought it wasn't worth the effort to try to learn something which was "impossible." My mother was awesome about it though. She gave me any resource I wanted, so I could provide myself with my own education.

I basically started from the ground up. When I got tired of learning through audio books, I started struggling through the jumbled shapes until my mind could make sense of them. Now, I can easily read a 400 page novel in a single night. I am not bragging, and I hope I don't sound like I am, but this is what inspired me to go into education. It is weird, but I almost feel obligated to show people that disabilities can sometimes be a persons greatest strength or, at least, lead to it.

[scameter]

I'm curious: would inherent talent exist in the form of potential skill in the individual, for instance, a person who is talented at say basketball shooting would not necessarily be great at it initially but would have the potential to advance, whereas a person without talent might be somewhat decent at shooting just by knowledge of the act and force of will but could not really advance in skill past a certain point. That would essentially explain the occurrance of so many atheletes getting to the pros and failing. What do you all think?

[tgrace]

I think everyone is born with the accumulated knowledge of everything. But as a species we have evolved ways to surpress that knowledge or else we would go mad. So that knowledge is trapped within al of us like a very deep underground spring. Occasionally little pools of genius appear from no where on the surface of the consciousness as in autistic savants. Or great thinkers who are way before their time with theories of the universe etc. Some of us strike lucky and tap the spring easily....others drill for years and never reach the core :)

[Jiraiyathesage]

Hmm as usual another interesting thread! Man I love this site. Not everything is learned, as I believe Scameter pointed about his comparision of himself and his 12 year old little sister and drawing, see also Sonrisa's post. As for your question Scameter, I do think there is variance in the talents in talents of individuals, hence there being many people with different talents to others, for example some are better academically than physically and vice versa.

Some stuff is natural, some stuff is learned and some stuff is a combination of the two. Take me as an example. As a poet I'm proud of and love what I do, and I have been told I write well. Now is this natural talent? Well perhaps not because I have grew better over time, although that could be either my latent talent gbeing released over time or the fact that i have had a fair bit of experience writing poetry and testing out what I prefer writing and how I prefer writing, as the phrase goes practice makes perfect. Having said that it could be natural- as I still can't explain why I started writing in the 1st place.

Now another thing I am passionate about is the Japanese language, but note here I am NOT a natural language learner, I really struggle. However that's where earned talent comes in, something that is truly amazing. I will learn the language, because of my own sheer effort and willpower, not due to a latent talent in that area.

Shenpa, double kudos for your post, as it summarises my own view on the subject very well. Now you are a living example about how willpower and determination can transcend difficulties in life. Passion and determination account for a great deal, especially in my own personal experience where teachers on the most part have been useless and most of the stuff I know is self-taught or taught by my grandfather.

Scameter- there are limits of course, for example I could not become Prime Minister of my country (England/the UK) by sheer force of will and effort. On the most part though people can achieve whatever they are interested in.

Tgrace- that happens in a Marvel comic called Captain Marvel (circa 2002/2003). A superhero gets the power of omnisience (all knowingness) and it proves too much for him, he becomes a mad God and goes on a rampage (fantastic comic btw!). Well I still think sheer effort is more valuable on the whole than genius, because "the gift which is earned is more satisfying than the gift which is given " (Me- this post)

[scameter]

Perhaps it is the emotion behind the ability that, when the person is put in a situation to do that ability, their emotion-talent comes out and drives them to do it better by giving them things like confidence, focus, enjoyment and just general interest/curiosity. Emotion does tend to be a bit more instinctual/subconscious than knowledge or skill anyway.