Real Compassion

[vicente]

Why take a vow of compassion and allow the continuation of suffering? Real compassion does not avoid truth. Real compassion arises from those with a burning passion for self-existing wisdom, and truly compassionate people will surrender any limitation that steps between them and that goal.

To realize authentic compassion, there must be a harmonious understanding of wisdom, which is only uncovered through the recognition of emptiness. At that level of compassion, there is no avoiding or appeasing, as contemporary moderates and faith-based do-gooders interpret compassion. There is no such thing as compassionate conservatism, nor a compassionate Christian. To support ignorance and tolerance for faith-based agendas is not compassion. To not support ignorance and faith-driven agendas is righteous intolerance, a quality of real compassion. Enlightenment is not accessed through false compassion. To use a pun that suggests an offense against social conventions, false compassion is bad form.

False or pseudo-compassion does not arise from emptiness; it arises from the five aggregates, as Buddha instructed in the Heart Sutra. Compassion does not arise from the morality and conceptuality of volition, but from the dissolution of that aggregate or skandha. There is no true compassion without the wisdom of emptiness. That is Buddha’s greatest teaching, according to Buddha. He said that only through the perfect wisdom of the Heart Sutra comes the perfect compassion of a bodhisattva. If compassion arises from form alone, it is false compassion, no matter how well-intended. To say that Christians express compassion would oppose the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha, thus breaking the samaya or commitment that leads to perfection.

If today’s humanity is going to survive the many threats against it in a less agonizing way, we need people of authentic compassion exposing light and love into this dimension by uncovering the light and love inherent in all of us. Humanity is not a sinful species, but a community poised to be liberated from the delusions of religion and science through genuine compassion. Humanity is a community whose heart can stand in the brilliance of integrity. People are able to let go of the beliefs that stand between them and their direct experience. Humanity is not its beliefs. We don’t need faith-based moderates and appeasers arguing for the continuance of dimming our light and love, pretending that their avoidance and form-based conceptions, including morality, belief, and moderatism, are compassion.

The motivation for compassion to liberate sentient beings proceeds from an uncovered heart-mind. Until the heart is open, that is, free from beliefs, there can be no true compassion. Only through emptiness can compassion be understood. Tolerance of religion is not act of compassion. Religions, especially the Abrahamic religions, endorse the harmful conditioning of human beings to reject the light and love that they are. The dissolution of religion (sets of beliefs) through understanding the five aggregates and the subsequent exposing of spiritual wisdom is the “Holy War” described in the Kalachakra

In the West, the word compassion is not understood. True compassion is neither tolerant, nor a flaw of the weak. It is not appeasing or establishing a moderate view of faith-based dogma. Vajrayana Buddhism says that compassion is neither passive, nor something that arises from a hollow heart, but it is a quality that stands up to injustice and dishonesty without fear and without hesitation. All Christians (by the very nature of being Christian) are hollow-hearted.

The compassion of the bodhisattvas is closely related to the heart, what Vajrayana considers the higher consciousness. If one’s heart-mind is hollow, that is, dull and false through an attachment to beliefs in samsara and the skandhas, then there is no genuine compassion. Although the actions of the faith-based may be well-intended, compassion filtered through beliefs only helps to sustain suffering, not release it, yet hollow-hearted compassion is often put on a pedestal and admired in the current culture. Our culture honors moderates and appeasers for their activities in supporting ignorance, injustice, dishonesty, and the perpetuation of fear and hope.

Vicente Marco

[bito]

Compassion is not real or unreal. Compassion is present or is not present.

Compassion was taught by the Buddha, and was used by the Buddha, was taught by Jesus and was used by Jesus, but compassion has nothing to do with Buddhism or Christianity or any thought system.

Love. Pure and simple.

Wisdom. Pure and simple.

Spontaneity. Pure and simple.

Awareness. Pure and simple.

:)

[vicente]

Compassion is not real or unreal. Compassion is present or is not present.

Compassion was taught by the Buddha, and was used by the Buddha, was taught by Jesus and was used by Jesus, but compassion has nothing to do with Buddhism or Christianity or any thought system.

Love. Pure and simple.

Wisdom. Pure and simple.

Spontaneity. Pure and simple.

Awareness. Pure and simple.

:)

LOL No historic source, ANYWHERE, shows a Jesus who taught compassion. You're inventing stuff up. Taking thing out of context.

There is no compassion in the Bible. The Bible is about conditions,...even their love is conditional. Christians say that love is bearing, believing, hoping, and enduring (1 Cor. 13:7). That is not love; those words imply the submission, devotion, expectation, and suffering to the conditions of their beliefs.

Let me explain this way:

The sixth density is the first level of fully enlightened consciousness. Although the threshold of truth is within the fifth density, the sixth conscious plane is wholly in truth. Falsity cannot penetrate this plane of consciousness. The full, luminous understanding of compassion can be accessed through this vibrational level. No religious person can rise to this level of consciousness.

The fifth density occurs between the higher and lower densities of consciousness and appears to be the most populated of all the dimensions. At the upper level of this density, there are no limits to our desires. Whatever we wish in the fifth is instantly manifest. The middle of the fifth density is the gateway between arrita (untruth) and satya (truth), at which the beliefs cloaking the heart-mind have dropped away. A conscious connection with the middle fifth plane gives birth to the beginning of true compassion. Everything above this vibrational level of consciousness is true.

The 1998 film What Dreams May Come is loosely based on the middle fifth density. On the low end of the fifth plane is the highest level to which beliefs can ascend. This would be the heaven or hell for those who cling to the Abrahamic religions for their identity. The lower fifth density is not only the uppermost level of beliefs, such as the Christianized concept of Christ Consciousness, but also the highest level for the sciential-minded and believers in atheism. Falsity cannot go above this level. In the film What Dreams May Come, Robin Williams ventures to the lower fifth dimension to retrieve his partner, Annabella Sciorra, who is stuck there within a moral delusion. Researcher Robert Monroe has called the lower fifth density religious terminus.

Buddhic consciousness is considered to be the 8th density of consciousness. There is a 9th level, but it is not a density,...Vajra is not a density.

Once more, in response to this insanity of Jesus,...remember what Osho said, “Start knowing what you really know, and stop believing what you really don’t know. Somebody asks you. “Is there a God?” and you say, “Yes, God is.” Remember: Do you really know? If you don’t know, please don’t say that you do. Say, “I don’t know.”. . . False knowing is the enemy of true knowledge. All beliefs are false knowledge.”

Vicente Marco

[vicente]

v

is it ok if i put your post in my blog

i will atribute it to you

i could pm you the link to my blog but you haven't enabled your pm option or so it seems

Yes, you may.

Vicente Marco

[Michael]

Thank you Vicente, I have not seen such things articulated in such a manner before, but it makes perfect 'sense'. I am glad that you are posting here again.

I believe I have seen the upper levels of what you call the 5th density, creation. But the creation I was part of was empowered by love and the creation appeared highly complex, including physical laws and ecosystems, and ultruistic, joyous, far from selfish, unless the joy could be considered selfish, which is of course a possibility. I am aware how deceptive such perceptions can be and would appreciate your observations on this view.

[bito]

Was not referring to the historical Jesus or the bible. Jesus revealed truth. And in this revelation, Jesus used compassion. For some, he used parables. For some, parables were not needed.

Before the Buddha, there was no Buddhism. Before Jesus, there was no Christianity.

Jesus said "I am the light of the world". Christ mind, awareness.

The Buddha said "I am awake". Buddha nature, awareness.

Dropping Chirst mind, dropping Buddha nature, awareness.

Pure. Simple.

:)

[bito]

L ove

A wareness

W isdom

S pontaneity


:)

Invisible laws that mind will try to grasp as if can be seen or known.

[vicente]

Before the Buddha, there was no Buddhism. Before Jesus, there was no Christianity.

:)

V:
Wrong on both counts.

References to Christ can be found in 5th century BCE Greek literature. There was Christianity before Jesus,...it's in history. There were Buddha's before Shakyamuni Buddha.

Remember Osho,...don't say you know things that you don't know.

V
:)

[bito]

V:
Wrong on both counts.

References to Christ can be found in 5th century BCE Greek literature. There was Christianity before Jesus,...it's in history. There were Buddha's before Shakyamuni Buddha.

Remember Osho,...don't say you know things that you don't know.

V
:)

Vincente, you are challenging from mind, using thought to expose what is believed to be wrong thought. This is the game of debate, of content making, of thought stimulation, of thought provocation - the continuation of belief in separation.

Thought systems become irrelevant when belief in separation ends. Buddhism ends, Christianity ends, freethoughtism ends, Islam ends, Oshoism ends. Awareness needs no definition, no limitations, no dogma, no history, no explanations, no thought of whatsoever.

Jesus and the Buddha are simply living examples who realized the truth of emptiness, of holding no content in consciousness so as to cloud awareness. When they actually lived matters not, for what they revealed is NOW.

Be now. Live now. Use thought when necessary. Truth. Simple.

:)

[vicente]

Jesus and the Buddha are simply living examples who realized the truth of emptiness, of holding no content in consciousness so as to cloud awareness. When they actually lived matters not, for what they revealed is NOW.

Be now. Live now. Use thought when necessary. Truth. Simple.

:)

Stop mixing Jesus and Buddha,...there is no comparison. For example: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/errancy/issues/iss156.htm#jesuspeace

Or for a Buddhists view:
http://www.quangduc.com/English/Books/beyond08.htm

[sahyo]

L ove

A wareness

W isdom

S pontaneity

spontaneousing-present cannot think-time-laws

[sahyo]

Jesus and the Buddha are simply living examples who realized the truth of emptiness, of holding no content in consciousness so as to cloud awareness.

cannot "holding no content in consciousness" as if a container

When they actually lived matters not, for what they revealed is NOW.

what means "When they lived" ?

[sahyo]

Oshoism ends. Awareness needs no definition, no limitations, no dogma, no history, no explanations, no thought of whatsoever.

Jesus and the Buddha are simply living examples who realized the truth of emptiness, of holding no content in consciousness so as to cloud awareness. When they actually lived matters not, for what they revealed is NOW.

what are distinguishing?

[Michael]

Vicente, please forgive me for being so impolite, but I must ask you why you have not responded to my earlier query in this thread which I reproduce below:

I believe I have seen the upper levels of what you call the 5th density, creation. But the creation I was part of was empowered by love and the creation appeared highly complex, including physical laws and ecosystems, and ultruistic, joyous, far from selfish, unless the joy could be considered selfish, which is of course a possibility. I am aware how deceptive such perceptions can be and would appreciate your observations on this view.

[sahyo]

V: truly compassionate people will surrender any limitation that steps between them and that goal.

compassioning cannot 'of' thought-time-"goal"

[Michael]

On reflection, vicente, what I'm asking is, is your description of the 5th density based on theory or experience?

[vicente]

On reflection, vicente, what I'm asking is, is your description of the 5th density based on theory or experience?

V:
I'd have to say theory arising from intuition. I've been conscious of the 7th density, and can discuss it. I've been conscious of still light, and am intimate with that also. Honestly, I'm not sure if any of myself is in the 5th density.

Everyone's highest self is in the 7th or 8th densities. From there, they divide into denser forms, so that, as I understand it, the you, you really are, can be found on all densities, or just some of them.

Although I personally don't feel a locational affinity with the 5th densities per se, I do have an affinity for how the universe rearranges itself to accommodate your picture of reality at that dimension. Thus I could say I have an energetic understanding of the 5th.

Most of the Nine Magick Perfections of the Mahasiddhas operate through the higher 5th density consciousness. The higher levels than this are beyond the astral, and manifest a different ecstasy.

I agree with you that the higher 5th is "empowered by love and the creation appeared highly complex." However, it is astral, the density of a dream, not the density of 3D matter. In a dream you can touch, taste, etc., yet it appears as 3D matter.

Validation of a connection with the 5th would present itself in the 3D through heightened transcendental awareness and ecstasy, which would appear as subjective to the sciential minded, nevertheless is sapiential in nature.

One recognization that is obvious when uncovered in the higher 5th is that you are no longer here for your 3D you, that is to say, this reality does not exist for you, rather....you exist for this reality.

If you have honestly tapped into a higher density, your consciousness has expanded beyond the little tip of the iceberg we call consciousness. This is not available for those clinging to the lower 5th (religious terminus).

The directive to Gnow Thyself (Gnothi Seauton) is to realize your whole self. At the higher 5th you connect with the higher self. At the lower 5th there is still a denial that the higher self exists.

That's how I see it.

Vicente
:)

[Taeguk]

On Theory vs. Experience:


Think how it is to have a conversation with an embryo. You might say:

"The world outside is vast and intricate. There are wheatfields and mountain passes, and orchards in bloom.

"At night there are million of galaxies, and in sunlight the beauty of friends dancing at a wedding.

You ask the embryo why he or she stays cooped up in the dark with eyes closed.

Listen to the answer:

"There is no 'other world.' I only know what I’ve experienced. You must be hallucinating."
(Jelaluddin Rumi)

[Michael]

Thank you very much vicente. Much of what you say rings true. It is very affirming to have such expereinces supported by others on this plane of existence. One has to question one's own mind's perceptions. Indeed, one frequently doubts their validity.

I didn't touch, taste or hear, simply saw and felt.

I like when you say that the you you really are can be found in all densities, for this is a strong intuitive belief of mine. As Marlow touched on it, 'This is hell, nor am I out of it'. This, I think, is also an ancient Celtic belief.

Myself I wouldn't like to get too attached to any of the densities. And yes, the higher self exists, although 'self' is a misnomer, or at least a misdirection, unless you think of you and me and us and this computer and that cat and our pain and these illusions as 'self'. Right now I'm enjoy this discussion, these feelings, this body, a nice glass of Beaujolais-Villages and watching the mind thinking it's so smart. :). Cheers, vicente.

[bito]

cannot "holding no content in consciousness" as if a container

did not say "as if a container"

what means "When they lived" ?

when bodies lived

what are distinguishing?

do not understand what sahyo is asking

[Michael]

"There is no 'other world.' I only know what I’ve experienced. You must be hallucinating."[/b]
(Jelaluddin Rumi)

While I can't be categorical, neither can I find affinity with this idea of the ignorant embryo. My own 'possible' pre-natal 'recall' would indicate a far greater awareness, although I can in no way describe the content of that awareness. No, I lie, I see it in analogy. First optimistic birds on a branch, sharers of a consciousness, ready to enter the material world. Then the shock of entering material reality. Everything that seemed so easy in the airy world of pre-incarnation suddenly is enveloped with the weight of the world. We realize the path we must take is not as easy as we thought. I believe much of the conflict in our lives arises from this, well in mine anyway. Thus we are dragged kicking and screaming into the world. Further, our period within the womb is a period of consciousness. During gestation the awareness gradually moves from pre-carnate awareness to incarnate awarness.

[bito]

While I can't be categorical, neither can I find affinity with this idea of the ignorant embryo. My own 'possible' pre-natal 'recall' would indicate a far greater awareness, although I can in no way describe the content of that awareness. No, I lie, I see it in analogy. First optimistic birds on a branch, sharers of a consciousness, ready to enter the material world. Then the shock of entering material reality. Everything that seemed so easy in the airy world of pre-incarnation suddenly is enveloped with the weight of the world. We realize the path we must take is not as easy as we thought. I believe much of the conflict in our lives arises from this, well in mine anyway. Thus we are dragged kicking and screaming into the world. Further, our period within the womb is a period of consciousness. During gestation the awareness gradually moves from pre-carnate awareness to incarnate awarness.

Belief in separation. :cry:

Love sees no separation. Wisdom knows no separation. :)

Buddhist wisdom:

The Ground Luminosity

The self-originated Clear Light, which from the very beginning was never born,
Is the child of Rigpa, which is itself without any parents - how amazing!
This self-originated wisdom has not been created by anyone - how amazing!
It has never experienced birth and has nothing in it that could cause it to die - how amazing!
Although it is evidently visible, yet there is no one there who sees it - how amazing!
Although it has wandered through samsara, no harm has come to it - how amazing!
Although it exists in everyone everywhere, it has gone unrecognized - how amazing!
And yet you go on hoping to attain some other fruit than this elsewhere - how amazing!
Even though it is the thing that is most essentially yours, you seek for it elsewhere - how amazing!

The Four Phases of Dharmata (the intrinsic nature of everything, the essence of things are they are) OR The Spontaneous Presentation of the Nature of Our Mind: - bito bolded for emphasis :)

1. Luminosity - the Landscape of Light

In the bardo of dharmata, you take on a body of light. The first phase of this bardo is when "space dissolves into luminosity". Suddenly you become aware of a flowing vibrant world of sound, light, and colour. All the ordinary features of our familiar environment have melted into an all-pervasive landscape of light. This is brilliantly clear and radiant, transparent and multicoloured, unlimited by any kind of dimension or direction, shimmering and constantly in motion. Its colours are the natural expression of the intrinsic elemental qualities of the mind: space is perceived as blue light, water as white, earth as yellow, fire as red and wind as green.

How stable these dazzling appearances of light are in the bardo of dharmata depends entirely upon what stability you have managed to attain in Togal (spiritual) practice. Only a real mastery of this practice will enable you to stabilize the experience and so use it to gain liberation. Otherwise, the bardo of dhamata will simply flash by like a bolt of lightning; you will not even know that it has occurred.

2. Union - the Deities

If you are unable to recognize this as the spontaneous play of Rigpa, the simple rays and colours then begin to integrate and coalesce into points of balls of light of different sizes, called tikle. Within them, the "mandalas of the peaceful and wrathful deities" appear, as enormous spherical concentrations of light seeming to occupy the whole of space.

This is the second phase, known as "luminosity dissolving into union," where the luminosity manifests in the form of buddhas or deities of various size, colour, and form, holding different attributes. The brilliant light they emanate is blinding and dazzling, the sound is tremendous, like the roaring of a thousand thunderclaps, and the rays and beams of light are like lasers, piercing everything. They unfold, taking on their own characteristic mandala pattern of five-fold clusters. This is a vision that fills the whole of your perception with such intensity that if you are unable to recognize it for what it is, it appears terrifying and threatening. From yourself and from the deities, very fine shafts of light stream out, joining your heart with theirs. Countless luminous spheres appear in their rays, which increase and the "roll up," as the deities dissolve into you.

3. Wisdom

If again you fail to recognize and gain stability, the next phase unfolds, called "union dissolving into wisdom."

Another shaft of light springs out from your heart and an enormous vision unfolds from it; however, every detail remains distinct and precise. This is the display of the various aspects of wisdom, which appear together in a show of unfurled carpets of light and resplendent spherical luminous tikles.

First, on a carpet of deep blue light appear shimmering tikles of sapphire blue, in patterns of five. Above that, on a carpet of white light, appear radiant tikles, white like crystal. Above, on a carpet of yellow light, appear golden tikles, and upon that a carpet of red light supports ruby red tikles. They are crowned by a radiant sphere like an outspread canopy made of peacock feathers.

This brilliant display of light is the manifestation of the five wisdoms: wisdom of all-encompassing space, mirror-like wisdom, equalizing wisdom, wisdom of discernment and all-accomplishing wisdom. But since the all-accomplishing wisdom is only perfected at the time of enlightenment, it does not appear yet. Therefore, there is no green carpet of light and tikcles, yet it is inherent within all the other colours. What is being manifested here is our potential of enlightenment, and the all-accomplishing wisdom will appear when we become a buddha.

If you do not attain liberation here through resting undistracted in the nature of mind, the carpets of light and their tikles, along with your Rigpa, all dissolve into the radiant sphere of light, which is like a canopy of peacock feathers.

4. Spontaneous Presence

This heralds the final phase of the bardo of dharmata, "wisdom dissolving into spontaneous presence." Now the whole of reality presents itself in one tremendous display. First the state of primordial purity dawns like an open, cloudless sky. Then the peaceful and wrathful deities appear, followed by the pure realms of the buddhas, and below them the six realms of samsaric existence.

The limitlessness of this vision is utterly beyond our ordinary imagination. Every possibility is presented from wisdom and liberation, to confusion and rebirth. At this point you will find yourself endowed with powers of clairvoyent perception and recollection. The entire vision then dissolves back into its orignal essence, like a tent collapsing once its ropes are cut.

Understanding Dharmata

Now when the bardo of dharmata dawns upon me,
I will abandon all fear and terror,
I will recognize whatever appears as the display of my own Rigpa,
And know it to be the natural appearance of this bardo;
Now that I have reached this crucial point,
I will not fear the peaceful and wrathful deities, that arise from the nature of my very own mind.

* The Tibetian Book of the Living and Dying, Sogyal Rinpoche

:)

[Michael]

Thank you for that, bito. Most beautiful. However, I never said, or indeed knew, what plane of existence I was one when these experiences occured, merely pre-carnate and incarnate. What bardos were involved i have no idea. The only point I was making was that embryos are not ignorant. :)

[sahyo]

cannot "holding no content in consciousness" as if a container

did not say "as if a container"

but did say "holding" as if a container which can hold

what means "When they lived" ?

when bodies lived

When they actually lived matters not, for what they revealed is NOW

what are distinguishing?

do not understand what sahyo is asking

was referring "actually lived" as if could "time" (between)


:)

[bito]

but did say "holding" as if a container which can hold

"holding" as if can look at

:)

[bito]

The only point I was making was that embryos are not ignorant.

Did describe seeing contents, as if separate: "optimistic birds on a branch, sharers of consciousness, ready to enter the material world."

It is when there is realization that there is no separation, no matter if embryo body or adult body that we awaken. Wisdom.

:)

[sahyo]

While I can't be categorical, neither can I find affinity with this idea of the ignorant embryo. My own 'possible' pre-natal 'recall' would indicate a far greater awareness, although I can in no way describe the content of that awareness. No, I lie, I see it in analogy. First optimistic birds on a branch, sharers of a consciousness, ready to enter the material world. Then the shock of entering material reality. Everything that seemed so easy in the airy world of pre-incarnation suddenly is enveloped with the weight of the world.

well described :)

[Michael]

We are not born out of 'oneness' but of that place upon our karmic path in which we are. That place is not always 'wise'. Or even pleasant. The job is to 'get back', become aware and even then we may chose to re-enter the carnate world from situations less than ideal :)

[sahyo]

holding no content in consciousness

"holding" as if can look at

"holding as if can look at" "no content in consciousness" as if separate ?

[bito]

"holding as if can look at" "no content in consciousness" as if separate ?

believing content (image) is separate, as of object for understanding

when belief in subject-object separation ends, imaging ends; no content :)

[vicente]

could you elaborate this point please

Vajra is the still fulcrum upon which the densities effect their motion. Vajra is the so-called speed of light, which when reached, space-time no longer exist.

The first division out of Vajra is density 7 and 8. Neither is higher or less than the other,...they are equally divided as two points of an equilateral triangle below the apex.

V

[vicente]

We are not born out of 'oneness' but of that place upon our karmic path in which we are. That place is not always 'wise'. Or even pleasant. The job is to 'get back', become aware and even then we may chose to re-enter the carnate world from situations less than ideal :)

V:
This is an important point, and a direct opposite of the Abrahamic religions. We are not born out of oneness.

Saraha said, “He who thinks of mind in terms of one or many casts away the light and enters delusion.” Oneness is baseless verbal fiction. Oneness is Aristotelian logic and the delusion of theism.

Vajra upsets the logic the oneness, and thus Vajra is denied.

V
:)

[sahyo]

believing content (image) is separate, as of object for understanding

when belief in subject-object separation ends, imaging ends; no content :)

Jesus and the Buddha are simply living examples who realized the truth of emptiness, of holding no content in consciousness so as to cloud awareness.

am referring "the truth of emptiness, of holding no content in consciousness", which cannot wording sahyo for responding, which isn't which bito reading as saying

[vicente]

am referring "the truth of emptiness, of holding no content in consciousness", which cannot wording sahyo for responding, which isn't which bito reading as saying

sahyo/bito, you haven't a clue as what the truth of emptiness is, so why are you discussing it as if you do?

As a Religious Studies major specialized in Early Christianity I can assure you that there is nothing in the Bible suggesting any knowledge of "emptiness."

Nor has emptiness anything to do with "content in consciousness." Emptiness is NOT non-duality. What is emptiness? Emptiness is form, and form is emptiness. Other than that you'll have to wait till the end of August 07 when my book on Vajrayana Buddhism is published.

In this second book (titled mc2 < c), for the first time since the 13th century, I define the meaning of Tathagata. A Tathagata is one who understands why emptiness is form, and form is emptiness.

There is other terma in the book, like the Nine Dakini Secrets, but the authentic definition of Tathagata is so powerful that I expect a thousand Buddha's to be uncovered by 2009.

Vicente
:)

[bito]

sahyo/bito, you haven't a clue as what the truth of emptiness is, so why are you discussing it as if you do?

am not discussing

As a Religious Studies major specialized in Early Christianity I can assure you that there is nothing in the Bible suggesting any knowledge of "emptiness."

"I am the light of the world", "It is finished", New Testament.

Nor has emptiness anything to do with "content in consciousness." Emptiness is NOT non-duality. What is emptiness? Emptiness is form, and form is emptiness.

Form that is empty of attachment to image, to thought.

Form that is empty of relativity-travelling within contents of consciousness in belief that relativity can say life.

Other than that you'll have to wait till the end of August 07 when my book on Vajrayana Buddhism is published.

am finished waiting

[bito]

am referring "the truth of emptiness, of holding no content in consciousness", which cannot wording sahyo for responding, which isn't which bito reading as saying

:blink:

:lol:

:loveyou:

[bito]

used three smilies in one post

check other posts, very few smilies used

difficult to know how many is 'just right'

perhaps need succinct guidelines - how many can use in one post, how many can use in one day, etc.

not using sarcasm :)

[vicente]

"I am the light of the world", "It is finished", New Testament.


V:
And what is this so-called "light of the world" that Jesus purportedly said he was (which most scholars challenge).

1 John’s apology that the Christian “God is light, and in him is no darkness” says alot. It shows he has no understanding of emptiness, but only the form side of duality.

In my book Full Spectrum Consciousness www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=19601 I write:

Cosmologically speaking, we only see as far into the universe as incandescent light allows, then there is darkness, endless darkness. Many believe that light is an all-pervading expression of wisdom, when in fact it is darkness that is all-pervading from a duality viewpoint. Unlike light, darkness has no boundary, nor does it have a center. In a sense, it is not separated from anything. On the other hand, the incandescent light of duality does have a definable boundary, thus a center. Duality’s light is inherently separate.

The light of duality, that is, divided, projected light, can only illuminate the past, because it is itself the past. From a perspective of dualism, the “now” would be in darkness, an idea not very palatable to ego consciousness. This makes any contemplation of the nature of light and darkness forbidden, another taboo, or at least it rips the imagined fabric of society’s delusion and leaves it garmentless, naked and free.

Rudolph Steiner, in his treatise Colour, says, “Light is the antipathic expression of duality, whereas darkness, its sympathetic expression.” In other words, darkness is as the womb of creation, through which creation dies into light. To better grasp this, consider thermodynamics. Dark yin initiates compression from cold, thus multiplying cold to create light through yang’s heat. The compressed heat expands, thus dividing crystallized light and yang’s heat back to dark, yin cold. That is the pulse of duality. The Christian God is the masculine light of duality, and in him is no feminine darkness. Such a god will never find or realize balance. Unlike the Buddhist sutras, there is little written in the Bible that suggests God or Jesus was enlightened.

Vicente Marco

[vicente]

Will you define it here, or do we have to wait to "buy the book"?

Yes, I will somewhat define it here, but not until the book is published ( I made a promise). By somewhat I mean, I'll post the American sound bite version,...if you want to understand it however, the whole book may be necessary.

By the way, the book is being published in Victoria, BC

Vicente

[bito]

Vincente:

Those who do not take the scholarly path have trouble expressing what is called 'enlightenment' in words. To those who feel-intuit IS, words sometimes seem as as sea that must be parted so that 'feeling' is said, and of course, feeling can never be said, ergo, the perceived 'overuse' of smilies and the perceived (or real) errors in historical thought.

Clearly, you are a religious scholar. Clearly, I am not.

Shake hands and 'go' our own way? :)

[sahyo]

am referring "the truth of emptiness, of holding no content in consciousness", which cannot wording sahyo for responding, which isn't which bito reading as saying



:blink:

:lol:

:loveyou:


http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/71.gif


yes :blink: when was read for posting, but was only wording which was


:loveyou:

[vicente]

Interesting, I visit Victoria frequently.

Can you talk about your first book?

V:
Sure, whatever you wish to know.
www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=19601

Vicente

[Thomas Knierim]

Ryker: So the link to purchase the book has been posted specifically by Vicente one hundred & thirty-six times. So to answer Winifried's question: Yes, I'd say so.

There must be a mistake. The search engine reports that the link to Vicente's book was posted 7 times, that all were posted by Vicente within the last 10 days.

Anyway, I think that 7 times is certainly enough. No disrespect, Vicente. :)

Cheers, Thomas

[tooelle]

V,
your opening post ...was longing to read something like that... I log in and thats the first thing I read...

[abaris]

Vincente

In this second book (titled mc2 < c), for the first time since the 13th century, I define the meaning of Tathagata. A Tathagata is one who understands why emptiness is form, and form is emptiness.


If you insist in using equations in your book, and the title mc2<c suggests that you do, at least make sure that they mean something. An expression such as
mc2<c is complete nonsense and only demonstrates that you are absolutely clueless when it comes to science. Applying your understanding of units one could state: Apples times Tomatoes squared is less than Tomatoes.

[Starry_Canopy]

vicente: Somebody asks you. “Is there a God?” and you say, “Yes, God is.” Remember: Do you really know? If you don’t know, please don’t say that you do.

If someone asked me "Is there a God?", I will say "Yes, God is there." because I really know that God is there. I must request you, Vicente, to please not say that God is not there because you don't really know that what you are saying is true. All your 'densities' are only mental concepts, part of 'multi formed existence' such as the three dimensional universe though they might be of higher dimensional existence, including your 'emptiness'.

I dare to take up the challenge of your question because I can answer it for sure, not based on belief, but knowledge. If you wish to take advantage of this grace coming your way, go ahead. If you don't, go ahead. I really don't care which way you take it in my present state of consciousness of you as different from me.

My knowledge of God is not a result of theories or learning. Not of poring over various scriptures or following someone else' path. It was a direct knowledge resulting from grace.

[Taeguk]

that is not what vincente said

he never said god was not there



Um....where have you been, psyche?

I've tasted the light of Vajra and there is no god there. Sure, that may sound like a religious zealot, except if you look more closer you'll not find any beliefs attached to my posts.

Not to mention the "Vicente Vajrayana jingle":

Know God, no peace; Gnow Peace, no god

So no, maybe he didn't come right out and say "there is no God" in those words, but it seems slightly disingenous of you to imply that he didn't say just that. If Starry Canopy wants to call him on that, he has every right to.

Not that it matters, since vicente doesn't seem to be posting here any longer.

[Taeguk]

then he should quote those statements

the statement he quoted did not say that 'there as no god' but 'if you don't know then don't say so'

Oh, come on. How many threads did vicente start about the futility and falsity of the concept of "God"?

Why does it matter if Starry Canopy doesn't wade through hundreds of vicente's posts to find the exact quote? He knows what vicente's position is, vicente knows what his own position is, and after nearly a month of vicente's spam, we all know what his position is as well----as I'd imagine you do as well, psyche.

It seems like you are just bandying semantics, to me. :rolleyes:

[Taeguk]

I realize this thread is "closed", but I feel I need to address some points made here:

and it seems to me that you find it necessary to dismiss vincente's statements for whatever reason

Not for "whatever reason", but rather because he holds his statements to be absolute, and looks down at anybody who either a ) doesn't agree with him; or b ) does not use his preferred language.

you have been dissing vincente for some time now

On the contrary, I don't think I've ever "dissed" vicente, although I have objected to his statements and his relentless commercialism (i.e. plugging his book at every opportunity)----neither of which are personal attacks.

the fact that you disagree with his views does not axiomatically make you correct

nor does it make vincente correct axiomatically

That is entirely my point! :goodlaugh:

I've never claimed to be "axiomatically correct", although I think an unbiased reading of vicente's posts should reveal that he, on the other hand, holds that disagreement with his views is proof that one is not only incorrect, but also happens to oppose the "authentic teachings" of Buddha. Any disagreement I have with vicente doesn't come so much from his actual views as much as it comes from this sort of attitude. :unsure:

[Starry_Canopy]

I am sorry to post while knowing it is a closed topic.

Just wanted to say that Taeguk and the_aphid represented my views correctly. Thank you, you two, and sorry that I was too busy to come here or say this earlier.

vicente wanted someone who knew God existed for sure, existed apart from his 'beliefs' to say so. I knew, so I had to say so in order to give vicente data to modify his beliefs.