Self-immolation

[Taeguk]

Hi! :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fd/Thich_Quang_Duc_-_Self_Immolation.jpg/300px-Thich_Quang_Duc_-_Self_Immolation.jpg

I think we're all familiar with this image, even those who aren't old enough to remember Vietnam.

From a New York Times reporter who witnessed Thich Quang Duc's self immolation in the streets of Saigon:

I was to see that sight again, but once was enough. Flames were coming from a human being; his body was slowly withering and shriveling up, his head blackening and charring. In the air was the smell of burning human flesh; human beings burn surprisingly quickly. Behind me I could hear the sobbing of the Vietnamese who were now gathering. I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think.... As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him.

(quote and image c/o Wikipedia)

Any thoughts on this?

[scameter]

Amazing, obviously. As is the shaolin abilities of extreme fortitude and levitation.

[sahyo]

this was posted with the pic on another forum:

For a peaceful meditation, we need not go to the mountains and streams;
When thoughts are quieted down, fire itself is cool and refreshing.

kowtaaia

[Michael]

I think there was a man who truly loved life

[scameter]

So he had fire coming from him? That'd suck. :D

[sahyo]

"detached" is attached

[Sersta]

Truly an amazing photograph. A new one for me. Does anyone remember the circumstances around that moment? I would love to know the motivations behind such am amazing act, was it in pursuit of enlightenment, or an act of defiance, or both? Anyone who knows more about it please share. Thank you.

[Noway2Zero]

is he sitting down?

[sahyo]

n2z (http://www.lyfe.freeserve.co.uk/photobrowne.htm)

[Noway2Zero]

wow..

thanks sahyo

[sahyo]

thanks n2z

[Sersta]

I happened by the link as well Sayho, truly an amazing story. Thank you for posting it. It saddens me that the US Govt. is still persisting in very similar activities. I am continuously surprised when they are surprised that these things continue to blow up in their faces. I am very moved to see the conviction with which the monks pursued their freedom. Thank you again, Sersta.

[sahyo]

thanking sersta

[Winfried]

So, is he... a martyr?

[Taeguk]

Hi! :)

Winfried, you asked:

So, is he... a martyr?

Now that's an interesting question!

My guess is he wouldn't have wanted us to set him up as "martyr" because his purpose here was not to draw attention to himself, but to the suffering and injustice in South Vietnam at the time.

It's not really in the Buddhist spirit to set somebody up as a martyr, since I think there's the danger of clinging to the image and cult of "martyr", of setting up what can be something of an ideal/idol and neglecting the "buddha within".

Of course, as sahyo's link indicates, this doesn't necessarily stop a veneration:

It is said that the only part of Thich Quang Duc’s body that wasn’t burnt was his heart, even after his body was subjected to ritual cremation, and it is kept at the Reserve Bank of Vietnam as a holy relic.

:lol:

There seems to be something intrinsically human about wanting to venerate the remains of such people---even if all that remains is a memory (or an embalmed heart).

My own feeling on this is that it's not bad to acknowledge "buddha nature" within Thich Quang Duc or anybody else, living or dead, so long as one doesn't forget that it is also within your own heart, and in all things.

[Michael]

There seems to be something intrinsically human about wanting to venerate the remains of such people


WE are the remains of such people

[Winfried]

It's not really in the Buddhist spirit to set somebody up as a martyr
I know, that's why I found this an odd story. Martyrs try not to draw attention to themselves, but to their cause - at least that's what they say, and so I believe - just like this fellow did. In a sense, Jesus Christ was a martyr too. He died (and stood up again :P) for his ideals. But isn't buddhism about life, rather than death?

[Taeguk]

Hi!

Winfried, you asked:

But isn't buddhism about life, rather than death?

Well, that depends on what you mean! :lol:

Certainly the focus of Buddhism is on this life, right now, not on some afterlife or paradise (although again, Buddhism as it is actually practiced sometimes can be. Pure Land Buddhism, for instance, is centered around trying to be reborn in the "Pure Land"---a different plane of existence). Nibbana/Nirvana is not the popular conception of "heaven".

On the other hand, Buddhism also stresses the importance of impermanence. This implies a certain awareness of death; facing the knowledge that you will die, and so will everyone and everything else around you.

For example, a traditional meditation for monks in India was to watch corpses being carried off for cremation. Another traditional meditation to help monks avoid lust is to picture the object of your desire, imagine her aging slowly until she becomes shriveled and wrinkled and corpse-like, and contemplate the evanescense of desire!

That might seem morbid, but it's all part of relinquishing desire and becoming unattached. And "keeping death on your shoulder will remind you to love", as a certain writer once put it.

So I guess you could say that Buddhism is life focused, but death conscious!

And Thich Quang Duc's immolation was to highlight injustices being committed against the living.

[scameter]

Another Instance of Self-Immolation (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/06/02/minor-league-spotlight-phillip-wellman-is-a-madman/)