Ignorance

[sahyo]

Have you known anything? You know many things, but everything is borrowed. Someone has said them, someone has given them to you. Teachers, parents, society, they have conditioned your mind. You "know" about God, you "know" about love, you "know" about meditation. You don't know anything really! You have not tasted anything, this all is borrowed. Someone else has tasted, the taste is not your own. Someone else has seen, but you have your eyes and you have not used them. Someone else has experienced – a Buddha has experienced, a Jesus has experienced – and you just go on borrowing their knowings. They are false! For you, they are of no use. They are more dangerous than ignorance, because ignorance is yours and the knowledge is borrowed.

It is better to be ignorant; at least the ignorance is yours. It is authentic, it is real, sincere and honest! Don't go on with borrowed knowledge. Otherwise you will forget that you are ignorant, and you will remain ignorant.


Osho

[scameter]

Ignorance is given too, just not by people; by life. It is something you have when you're born; a baby is totally ignorant. They only begin to lose some of this ignorance as their mind changes through age. But, I don't think, personally, that things that people know, create and think about are "borrowed" any more than anything else; even if they are taught or given by other people, those people's knowledge had an ultimate source a long time ago where the knowledge was originally given/created. It is simply that now, it is different than originally. This is why I stress introspection. To me, the only real way to see the core truth and source of knowledge is to look through one's inner eye, instead of the outer eye that is taught to them. Once we become able to look through ourselves, we can see the core of things.

[sahyo]

those people's knowledge had an ultimate source a long time ago
where the knowledge was originally given/created.

what "where" "a long time ago" ?

what "given/created" ?

[scameter]

Well, the "where" I guess would've been earth and, more specifically, the minds of men, and the "what" would be knowledge in the circumstance you quoted.

[sahyo]

http://web.ionsys.com/~remedy/OSHO%20-%20R...0The%20Real.htm (http://web.ionsys.com/~remedy/OSHO%20-%20Remaining%20With%20The%20Real.htm)

[bito]

Is it not interesting, sayho, how so many 'teachers' and 'gurus' make this very same declaration - "Stop borrowing knowledge, go and taste, go and experience!", and then, proceed to write dozens of books based on this simple wisdom directive?

:unsure:

[sahyo]

buddha-jesus-osho didn't write books

[sahyo]

'teachers' and 'gurus'



words people use
when don't trust experiencing
and are imagining there is 'someone' to follow

[Zoid]

Teachers are guides who can only provide signposts to self-knowledge.

B)

[bito]

'teachers' and 'gurus'

words people use
when don't trust experiencing
and are imagining there is 'someone' to follow

So simple, no 'someone', yet so many love-words are needed to be heard before ignorance is no more.

But then, who's counting?

No one!

:lol:

[sahyo]

Teachers are guides who can only provide signposts to self-knowledge.



:)

what is your definition self-knowledge ?

[sahyo]

hehe


But then, who's counting?

No one!

:lol:



counting "No one!" ?

;)

[Zoid]

what is your definition self -knowledge ?

Knowledge of self.

&

The knowledge that one can only know through self.

[sahyo]

feeds

scameter

zoid

hot

chili

pepper




;)

[Noway2Zero]

:o

[sahyo]

hehe

[Zoid]

...hot chilli pepper...

:angry: :wacko: :blink:

[sahyo]

if thinking that
then maybe wasn't enough hot chili pepper


;)

[sahyo]

thanks responding zoid



sahyo:

what is your definition self -knowledge ?


zoid:

Knowledge of self.

&

The knowledge that one can only know through self.



j krishnamurti:

The fundamental understanding of oneself does not come through knowledge or through the accumulation of experiences, which is merely the cultivation of memory. The understanding of oneself is from moment to moment; if we merely accumulate knowledge of the self, that very knowledge prevents further understanding, because accumulated knowledge and experience becomes the centre through which thought focuses and has its being.

[spiritual_emergency]

sahyo: You don't know anything really! You have not tasted anything, this all is borrowed. Someone else has tasted, the taste is not your own. Someone else has seen, but you have your eyes and you have not used them. Someone else has experienced – a Buddha has experienced, a Jesus has experienced – and you just go on borrowing their knowings.

Does anyone else see the irony in the action of sahyo quoting Osho who is chastising others for borrowing knowledge ... or is it just me?

[scameter]

Yep. I also see the irony of Osho repeating the knowledge he himself has borrowed, and of how, in his other works, he critisizes words, and yet uses them.

[spiritual_emergency]

I'll bet it would be way easier to be "enlightened" if it weren't for the critics.

Anyways, question for you scameter (cause you might know). I noticed I've got a "guru" label under my pic now. Any idea how I change it/get rid of it?

[Fool Zero]

I noticed I've got a "guru" label under my pic now. Any idea how I change it/get rid of it?

I can probably answer that without even being a guru yet: Once you have reached the Guru rank (250 Posts) you can assign any title to yourself by editing your profile. That is if you don't like being a Guru.
-- Forum Rules (http://www.thebigview.com/forum/index.php?act=SR&f=2)

[sahyo]

Does anyone else see the irony in the action of sahyo quoting Osho who is chastising others for borrowing knowledge ... or is it just me?


yes thinking-'irony", thinking-"Osho is chastising", is "me"(you)

[sahyo]

of how, in his other works, he critisizes words, and yet uses them.



the fact that words cannot say isn't criticizing

[Zoid]

If we can't "know" anything, words are inadequate to express anything, and we shouldn't "borrow" the knowledge of others...

What is the point of philosophy?!
:uhoh:

[sahyo]

What is the point of philosophy?!



:)

[Zoid]

:lol:

(... that wasn't an entirely rhetorical question ... ;) )

[sahyo]

:lol:



:D


(... that wasn't an entirely rhetorical question ... ;) )



wasn't thinking "rhetorical" sweeting

[spiritual_emergency]

sahyo: yes thinking-'irony", thinking-"Osho is chastising", is "me"(you)

Don't get me wrong sahyo -- I like a lot of Osho's stuff, I quote others extensively (although I never quote those who say 'Thou shalt not quote') and I like my chili peppers, red-hot. But I also appreciate that I am here in this body and the rules apply differently for those in bodies versus those not in bodies. This was something Osho was sometimes inclined to overlook, although never when it came to picking a new limo.

Fool Zero: I can probably answer that without even being a guru yet

Thanks, Fool Zero. I found. I fixed.

[sahyo]

those who say 'Thou shalt not quote'


who said that ?


I am here in this body and the rules apply differently for those in bodies versus those not in bodies.


what "in this body"/"not in bodies" ?


although never when it came to picking a new limo.


:lol:

[bito]

Thanks, Fool Zero. I found. I fixed.

No can find. Wanna fix!

Help!

[spiritual_emergency]

bito: No can find. Wanna fix! Help!

Log-in.
Select "My Controls" [Displayed at the upper right of the board]
Select "Edit Personal Profile"
At the very top of the new page that opens will be a fill-in-the-blank option: "Custom member title." You can do your thing there.


Re: Who said what?

sahyo: Someone else has experienced – a Buddha has experienced, a Jesus has experienced – and you just go on borrowing their knowings.

All that is being said is to go out and gain your own experience for yourself. You're not supposed to be Christ or Buddha or Osho or anyone other than who you truly are. It's not a trick question -- you're only supposed to be yourself whether that's Joe, Clara, Houdini, or Sacha.

Sure, you might look for assistance and insight from others, some of whom are famous, some of whom are not, but all of whom may be teachers. I think the idea is to not get caught up in looking up to others and following them as if they have all your answers -- how could they possibly have your answers when they don't even have your questions?!

That also means that you don't get too hung up on anyone else saying, "So and so has experience and you don't have their experiences!" They don't have yours either.

Meanwhile, here's a great link with some terrific quotes: Markers on the Path to Personal Authenticity (http://www.whole-person-counseling.com/Authenticity.htm).

For those who are Osho-inspired, here's another one: The False Center (http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm)

[bito]

s_e

Eureka!

Thanks :)

[Noway2Zero]

how could they possibly have your answers when they don't even have your questions?!
!!!!!!!! :applause:

[sahyo]

s_e

:thumbsup:

:D

[Noway2Zero]

thanks for this s_e :D

It happened that one Zen master was passing through a street. A man came running and hit him hard. The master fell down. Then he got up and started to walk in the same direction in which he was going before, not even looking back.

A disciple was with the master. He was simply shocked. He said, "Who is this man? What is this? If one lives in such a way, then anybody can come and kill you. And you have not even looked at that person, who he is, and why he did it."

The master said, "That is his problem, not mine."

[Starry_Canopy]

:lol:

Great story, thanks

[Starry_Canopy]

Thanks spiritual_emergency, too, I too didn't want the 'guru' label as I felt I wasn't qualified to be one :) Changed it to what I am with the help of your instructions :)

[sahyo]

people posting suspiciousing,
suspicioning is fears greed seeking to feel as if can safe

[sahyo]

thanking...but the comment wasn't written from "misery" sweeting

[bito]

people posting suspiciousing,
suspicioning is fears greed seeking to feel as if can safe

And start looking for the ego - not in others, that is not your business, but in yourself.

When there is a disturbance in the force - yeah Star Wars! - it is the ego scrambling for position within thought, desiring to fix imagined "I" 'somewhere', 'someplace', 'somewhen', 'somehow' in words. Impossible!

:blink:

Then fearing, so ego :boxing: or :ph34r:

[sahyo]

what "disturbance" bito?

[bito]

what "disturbance" bito?

fear

[sahyo]

what distrubance?

[bito]

'disturbance in the force' is a line from Star Wars; out-of-balance, unsettled

[sahyo]

ta explaining

fear

out-of-balance, unsettled

fearing cannot any thing "out-of-balance, unsettled"

[Noway2Zero]

fear can only fear

out of balance, unsettled happens as fear does though..

also as doubt, anger, desire happens to though

[sahyo]

out of balance, unsettled happens as fear does though..

"out of balance, unsettled" defining what?

[sahyo]

out of balance, unsettled happens as fear does though..

"out of balance, unsettled" defining what?

[Noway2Zero]

conflict,.. loss of peace

words cant describe..

[Noway2Zero]

it was a lie from the beginning

the root of the problem is trying to fix the problem

you cannot turn a lie into Truth

[sahyo]

conflict,.. loss of peace

"conflect,...loss of peace" as if there is balance/notbalance, settled/notsettled?

it was a lie from the beginning

what are referring to as a lie?

the root of the problem is trying to fix the problem

what problem?

you cannot turn a lie into Truth

what lie?

[Noway2Zero]

oh i see ;)

thanking..

:)

[sahyo]

;)

:)

thanking

[bito]

fearing cannot any thing "out-of-balance, unsettled"

Imagining separation, imagining 'other', is fearing.

'Out of balance, unsettled' is translation by mind of fearing - where is safety? where is comfort?

Then, imagining balance 'between' can be found in thought, so scrambling for peace, for truth in words ... no words can say peace, truth ... :blink:

Called 'ego', but where, what is 'ego'? .... :lol:

[sahyo]

:D


hehehehehehe


just: fearing cannot any thing "out-of-balance, unsettled"
since not any "out-of-balance, unsettled"


;)

[bito]

Imagining separation, imagining 'other', is fearing.

'Out of balance, unsettled' is translation by mind of fearing - where is safety? where is comfort?

Then, imagining balance 'between' can be found in thought, so scrambling for peace, for truth in words ... no words can say peace, truth ...

Called 'ego', but where, what is 'ego'? .... :lol:

just: fearing cannot any thing "out-of-balance, unsettled"
since not any "out-of-balance, unsettled"

po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe

:D

[Noway2Zero]

:baeh:

[bito]

:lol:

[sahyo]

po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe



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