Styles Of Meditation

[Taeguk]

Hi! I was wondering, for those of you who practice Buddhist meditation, if there's a particular style of meditation you prefer.

I practice vipassana on a regular basis, and I'm starting to incorporate metta bhavana as well.

[Noway2Zero]

hmm..

i looked up the definitions for these (had no idea what they were)..

come to find out i walk with these every moment of everyday constantly in a state of 'contemplation/reflection' and on gaurd not to slip into viewing things/people in a negative manner and always in a positive one
(i try to keep the diamond sutra with me)

is this odd?

as for meditation i try to sit for at least 1hour a day if not more with 'dont know' (not sure the name for that type of meditation or if there is a name at all).. but just trying to let everything go..

[Taeguk]

Thanks for replying, Noway2Zero! Good to read your reply.

You wrote:

i looked up the definitions for these (had no idea what they were)..

Which certainly doesn't stop you from practicing them! :) And of course you said that you, too, practice awareness. It sounds like you spend much of your time wide awake. I'm afraid I'm not quite there yet, my friend, but I'm getting there!

And no, I don't find it odd at all.

If anyone else isn't familiar with the Pali, vipassana is very simply "awareness meditation". Metta is translated into the someewhat clumsy "loving-kindness" and is basically an exercise to increase one's sense of compassion.

You also wrote:

as for meditation i try to sit for at least 1hour a day if not more with 'dont know' (not sure the name for that type of meditation or if there is a name at all).. but just trying to let everything go..

I'm not sure what that is called either, although old Taoist texts sometimes refer to sitting meditation as "sitting forgetting". Some early Ch'an and Zen writings use similiar descriptions.

But hey, whatever you call sitting is irrelevent to, well, actually doing it.

[sahyo]

hello taeguk :)


practice awareness

"practice"?


an exercise to increase one's sense of compassion.

what "one's sense of"?

not 'degrees of'


raining

[Taeguk]

Hello asheera! :)

You wrote:

"practice"?

And with good reason; maybe "cultivate" would've been more appropriate.

You also wrote:

what "one's sense of"?

not 'degrees of'

Again, you are correct; "degrees" is a more appropriate choice. Thank you. :)


Words are often such a poor medium for speaking of something like this, but I hope that others are able to see the moon I am trying to point at.

raining

Rain is so pretty. :)

So, tell me, asheera, do you sit or otherwise meditate? And if so, do you have a particular style you practice?

[Noway2Zero]

It sounds like you spend much of your time wide awake

thanks for the compliment :) i humbly smiled as i read that

but id not dare refer to myself as 'awake' ..mabey, ..'waking'

or to 'myself' as a 'self' at all

but we have to point some how right? <_< ..its what we are pointing 'at' and not what we are pointing 'with' thats important though

[sahyo]

maybe "cultivate" would've been more appropriate.

Appearances have never ceased to be their original radiance,
And unformed, form never had a substantial nature to be grasped;

The Royal Song of Saraha


Thank you. :)

thanking :)


do you sit or otherwise meditate?

no method

[sahyo]

its what we are pointing 'at'

what "at" to "its"?

[Taeguk]

Noway2Zero:

hanks for the compliment :) i humbly smiled as i read that

but id not dare refer to myself as 'awake' ..mabey, ..'waking'

or to 'myself' as a 'self' at all

That is probably for the best that you do not look at things in this way

& You are most welcome, btw :)


Asheera:


no method

Om Mani Padme Hum!

Joy to you :)

Oh, and:

what "at" to "its"?

:lol: What an inadequate tangle semantics can become!

[sahyo]

hehehe

[Noway2Zero]

Appearances have never ceased to be their original radiance,
And unformed, form never had a substantial nature to be grasped;

The Royal Song of Saraha

i like this one :) do you have a source for these 'words of wisdom' you post?

what "at" to "its"?

what is your question?

[sahyo]

:)


http://www.poetry-chaikhana.com/S/Saraha/R...oyalSongofS.htm (http://www.poetry-chaikhana.com/S/Saraha/RoyalSongofS.htm)

[sahyo]

its what we are pointing 'at'

what "at' (here-there-"it's")?

[Noway2Zero]

thank you very much for the link :)

..sorry i do not worry much about how its written, those with eyes for the truth will see it no matter what and those without will not see it no matter what..

[sahyo]

thanks

wasn't about 'how' was written

:)

[Starry_Canopy]

Hi Taeguk

If this interests you...

I meditate rarely now-a-days. But when I do, its by one of these two ways:

1. A system called Transcendaental Meditation followed by Siddhi. The former is a method of relaxation, letting the mind settle from its agitations and become one with its source. The latter is then that of releasing ripples of love, compassion, joy, etc. and a set of similar 'strengths' into the environment (wich includes 'my own mind and body') from that restful state. These are as taught by teachers trained by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

2. The second way is by receiving divine light through my forehead and on to my soul to dissolve the impurities that have gathered around it, so that it can be back in total oneness with its origin. This is as per a system called Mahikari No Waza (Jananese words, which I think mean cleansing with divine light).

Yes, these may not be Buddhist Meditation techniques if Buddhism is defined very narrowly. But otherwise, meditation is meditation; not this or that meditation. I learnt Vipassana once. What I felt while doing it was the same as what I feel while doing both of these that I do now. I guess that everyone wishing to do some meditation sooner or later hits upon the one that suits him/ her best.

[Taeguk]

Hi, Starry Canopy!

Thanks for replying :) It sounds like you might be more into Hindu style meditation/yoga (at least with Transcendental Meditation). But that's fine! I'm curious about any form of meditation, really.

I don't suppose you'd happen to know where Mahikari No Waza originated, do you? Is it from the Zen tradition?

You also mentioned you don't meditate so much anymore. If you don't mind my asking, why not?

You wrote:

I learnt Vipassana once. What I felt while doing it was the same as what I feel while doing both of these that I do now.

All the different techniques, I think, are supposed to lead you to the same ultimate experience. And as asheera mentioned, this can be done without any sort of technique whatsoever!

And I guess I'd like to ask anyone who cares to comment, when did you start meditating and why?

[Starry_Canopy]

Hi Taeguk!

Mahikari No Waza is based on a revelation received by a Japanese gentleman in the late 1950's (can't remember the exact year). It does not come from any system that was previously practised by the common man. It is supposed to be akin to the method by which great saints, such as Jesus, Buddha and other self realised people passed on 'divine grace' to others through their palms.

I first started meditating on my own unconscious of the fact that I was doing so. I was at that time an atheist and believed that science was the only way to arrive at the truth. I was about 20 years of age at that time and was trying my best to know the fourth, fifth and sixth dimensions based on a mathematical mental algorithm. Certain quantum increases in extremely happy sensations and feelings of freedom happened which I took to be the direct experience of these dimensions.

When I was 23, cicumstances in my life forced me to seriously try and answer to myself who I was. I became desperate to know this and devised a way of 'remembering' it. When I pursued this method, the same quantum changes happened in my experience that had happened when I had supposedly 'found' the 4th, 5th and 6th dimension.

This made me think that perhaps what was happening was something similar to what might have happened to zen students who were presented with unanswerable questions by their teachers for them to break out of the limitations of logic or mental concepts.

I pursued this method until it started happening by itself spontaneously and without my being able to control it. I then got worried and told my parents about what was happening. They advised me it was safer to pursue meditation with the help of guidance from someone qualified to teach and guide (a Guru). Otherwise, they said, it could be risky for mental and physical health.

By the time I was 25, I came across Transcendental Meditation which a few friends of mine had tried and found to be authentic. My Psychology Prof also recommended that we try it out and see for ourselves their (the TM practioners') point of view of the psyche. I atended their introductory seminars and found that what they claimed had been scientifically validated. So I tried it with an open mind and since then, have practised meditation in the sense that it is understood by the majority of people.

I think that I don't meditate so much anymore because of sheer apathy in that direction :). I so much want to enjoy every minute of my life that the time set aside for meditation or mahikari no waza seem to be too much to spare :) I know I am being shortsighted... but I am happy and have not yet lost touch with God, which is what I think counts :) Later, maybe, I'll plunge back into meditation, etc... these things, periods of seriousness about spiritual practises and carelessness about them seem to happen in cycles in my life.

[Noway2Zero]

if you dont mind my asking starry, are you intending to be happy for your own personal reasons?

[Noway2Zero]

then you view all things as 'One' psyche? a tree, a dog, a car, (a trip to space), a sewer these things are all of equal value to you? if so i am very happy for you and upon this point of realization yes there is no need for 'happy/unhappy'

but.. 'ordinary people' do not view things in this manner this is why the diamond sutra is such an important teaching

yes in truth it does not exist, but if the truth was realized by everyone, this 'Matrix' would not exist either.. and we would all be as we are in truth 'FREE'

[Taeguk]

Thanks for sharing, Starry Canopy! You have certainly taken an interesting path on your spiritual development! I have not heard of many people who claim mathematical algorithims led them to spiritual contemplation, although I have a feeling there may be far more in common between the two than most people (myself included!) imagine. ;)

I found it especially fascinating when you wrote:

This made me think that perhaps what was happening was something similar to what might have happened to zen students who were presented with unanswerable questions by their teachers for them to break out of the limitations of logic or mental concepts.

Clearly there are many formats in which koans can be presented!

This leads me to wonder: Could somebody develop a "koan theory"? A way to come up with and pose koans pulled from a variety of contexts? This could be most helpful in introducing newcomers to Zen Buddhism, especially people from a Western cultural background!
:unsure:

You also wrote:

I pursued this method until it started happening by itself spontaneously and without my being able to control it. I then got worried and told my parents about what was happening. They advised me it was safer to pursue meditation with the help of guidance from someone qualified to teach and guide (a Guru). Otherwise, they said, it could be risky for mental and physical health.

I am assuming they were wary of something like Kundalini? That can indeed be risky!

If you don't mind my asking, what was/is your parents' background? They seem to have been rather well advised about meditation and meditative practices! (I apologize if this question is too personal; you don't have to answer it if it is).

You finished up by saying:

I am happy and have not yet lost touch with God, which is what I think counts

I agree with you here! :) There are many directions a spiritual path can take. Like all paths, it starts from beneath your feet.

If you do not find meditation helpful right now, then you do not find it helpful.

And there is nothing wrong with that! I think sometimes people can become as heavily attached to spiritual practices and ritual (including meditation!) as they can be to material possessions! And that, of course, defeats the entire purpose of such practices. :)

[Starry_Canopy]

Hi Norway,

Yes, I intend to be happy .... maybe only I will benefit from that ... maybe I'll radiate it to my surroundings... I don't know. But in order to be happy, I won't do things that make others unhappy, to that extent I'll care for others. Also, if I find someone unhappy and my doing something can make him/ her happy, I'll do that also, for I don't want a corner of my mind being unhappy because of knowing that someone is unhappy.

In all the above cases, I can see that I'm primarily being happy only for myself...

[Noway2Zero]

k, thanks for the response :)

honesty! good quality..

its 'Noway' <_<

[Starry_Canopy]

Taeguk, you're very welcome. I'm glad that my experience is of some use to your inquiry...

I don't mind sharing anything here, except my bank account particulars or something like that, lol..

Please allow me to answer you point by point as I don't have much time today to engage you in a nice discussion.

Clearly there are many formats in which koans can be presented!

I'm sorry I am somewhat ignorant of the koans. I've just heard of stories such as the zen master asking the student, "You've heard a clap, that is the sound of two hands... now, what is the sound of one hand?" (without causing a compression and rarifaction of the air)

I am assuming they were wary of something like Kundalini? That can indeed be risky!

Yes, it appears that they were concerend that I might be playing around with Kundalini. :)

If you don't mind my asking, what was/is your parents' background? They seem to have been rather well advised about meditation and meditative practices! (I apologize if this question is too personal; you don't have to answer it if it is).


It's perfectly fine, this is nothing personal, purely academic :)

My parents are everyday people. However, I've noticed that in India, even everyday people have some general knowledge of things spiritual, at least in my parents generation (they are now in their 70's). Perhaps, in my parents' case, it might have been a little more than average as they were from Brahmin families that were descendant from notable Rishis. Thus, some of their knowledge might have been got from upbringing and its do's and don'ts, transferred, though progressively watered down, from generation to generation.

And there is nothing wrong with that! I think sometimes people can become as heavily attached to spiritual practices and ritual (including meditation!) as they can be to material possessions! And that, of course, defeats the entire purpose of such practices. :)

True, meditation is a means, not the end :)

And, according to the revelations that are behind Yokoshi (The name of the organization that is teaching Mahikari No Waza) also, it seems that our first responsibility towards God is to be happy :). Curious, huh?

[bito]

True, meditation is a means, not the end

"A Master saw a disciple who was very zealous in meditation
The Master said: " Virtous one, what is your aim in practising Zazen[meditation]?"
The disciple said: " My aim is to become a Buddha."
Then the Master picked up a tile and began to polish it on a stone in front of the hermitage,
The disciple said: "What is the Master doing?"
The Master said: " I am polishing this tile to make it a mirror."
The disciple said: "How can you make a mirror by polishing a tile?"
The Master replied: " How can you make a Buddha by practising Zazen[meditation]?"

* quoted by Thomas Merton

[clyde]

a contemplation on meditation

I am sitting comfortably. Or I am standing or walking or lying comfortably. I am content and have no need. Nothing special happens and I have no special experience. Thoughts arise and pass away. Nothing is gained and I realize no benefit.

Meditation is another term for mindfulness;
it is what occurs naturally when awake.

Do no harm,
clyde

[Michael]

You bring a smile to my lips, bito.

[sahyo]

psyche

not any defining

[Starry_Canopy]

its 'Noway' <_<

Thanks Noway :) and I'm sorry for the error in your name... but till you pointed it out, I have been only seeing 'Norway' whenever I saw your name :lol:

There's a finding in psychology that 'we see what we want to see'... this seems to be another instance of it; my having decided that your name was 'Norway' by the general shape of the characters, I saw only 'Norway' :)

On a lighter note, have you heard this song (of The Beatles, I think):

"He's a real nowhere man
Sitting on his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody"

When I was out of work, that song seemed to be sung for me :)

[Taeguk]

Hi, Starry Canopy!

You wrote:

My parents are everyday people. However, I've noticed that in India, even everyday people have some general knowledge of things spiritual, at least in my parents generation (they are now in their 70's). Perhaps, in my parents' case, it might have been a little more than average as they were from Brahmin families that were descendant from notable Rishis. Thus, some of their knowledge might have been got from upbringing and its do's and don'ts, transferred, though progressively watered down, from generation to generation.

That very fascinating indeed! I wondered whether your parents were Indian. :)

I have only had the privilege of knowing a few desis over here, but they have all expressed similiar sentiments about people from that generation and before.

You go on to say:

it seems that our first responsibility towards God is to be happy

That seems to resonate with me very strongly, Starry.

How much more heartfelt would the practice of religion be if all people viewed their ultimate goal as simply "to be happy", in the fullest sense of that word.

Come to think of it, how much better the world in general would be if people truly understood the meaning of that statement. Intensely profound, and beautiful.

Thank you very much for sharing. :)

[sahyo]

How much more heartfelt would the practice of religion be if all people viewed their ultimate goal as simply "to be happy", in the fullest sense of that word.

what is starry referring when saying "practice religion"?

you want people to think-imagining-"ultimate goal"-happy/sad?

[MidnightSun]

What is the most important thing to you? Its you.

[Taeguk]

Hi!

asheera, you wrote:

what is starry referring when saying "practice religion"?

you want people to think-imagining-"ultimate goal"-happy/sad?

Chuang Tzu once said: "Perfect joy is to be without joy."

"Happiness" in the sense of "non-happiness". :)

And "Religion" in the old sense of the word

religere: "to bind"

To bind to the universe

Of course, there is no need for binding.

A complete whole, no distinction, no seperation, no "parts":

As psyche and MidnightSun write:

What is the most important thing to you? Its you.

you that is perceived as your self is the universal self so it is the only important 'thing' in fact it is the only 'thing' though of course it is not a thing

So "practice of religion" is simply be-ing. :)

[Noway2Zero]

Hi, Starry!

no im sorry i do not know that song.. i should like to hear it sometime though :)

Starry writes:

it seems that our first responsibility towards God is to be happy

Taeguk writes:

That seems to resonate with me very strongly, Starry.

How much more heartfelt would the practice of religion be if all people viewed their ultimate goal as simply "to be happy", in the fullest sense of that word.

Come to think of it, how much better the world in general would be if people truly understood the meaning of that statement. Intensely profound, and beautiful.

i remember explaining to someone once..

when you give someone a gift which is a greater expression of graditude them saying 'thank you' or you seeing them enjoy what was given?

[Michael]

We are bound to body, to earth, to destiny, to karma, to desire, to lack of desire.

It is easy to choose being bound.

Nationality, religion, location, team, family, love, responsibility.

The diffculty is to be unbounden, to move beyond the bounds, to be beyond the bounds, to accept that we are unbounded.

And then, bodhisattva, to accept the bounden.

[clyde]

Nowhere Man: http://youtube.com/watch?v=AvLj72apGLI

[Noway2Zero]

thank you clyde :)

How much more heartfelt would the practice of religion be if all people viewed their ultimate goal as simply "to be happy", in the fullest sense of that word.

interestingly enough isnt "to be happy" our motivation for doing anything at all? surely we dont set out to do something because we want "to be unhappy" it is not the goal which is incorrect.. mabey just the methods we use to find happiness?

Taeguk, you quoted:

Chuang Tzu once said: "Perfect joy is to be without joy."

oddly enough we are already happy its all this running around looking for happiness (presuming we are not already) that makes for being unhappy :lol:

naturally the cup is full in order to 'attain' something youd have to empty it

[sahyo]

starry:
if all people viewed their ultimate goal as simply "to be happy"

sheera:
you want people to think-imagining-"ultimate goal"-happy/sad?

taeguk:
Chuang Tzu once said: "Perfect joy is to be without joy."

"Happiness" in the sense of "non-happiness".


not if thinking-wanting-"goal"

[sahyo]

And "Religion" in the old sense of the word

religere: "to bind"

To bind to the universe


ok...thanks :)

[Noway2Zero]

No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. -Jesus The Christ(Mark 3:27)

[sahyo]

It is easy to choose being bound.



no possible that fearing can choose

[Starry_Canopy]

This discussion's really taken on a fantastic form :)

Thanks everyone!

Sheera, that phrase 'practice religion' was used be Taeguk, I think, not me. What it refers to also, he has beautifully explained :) It is be-ing. Also, as the discussion progressed, we saw that very few of us are actually just be-ing most of the time and need to practise it to do it more consistently, like through meditation. That's the take I got, apart from happiness being a natural state and wanting/ doing things/ making a 'goal' of being happy instead of just be-ing, is one of the sure ways of not being happy....

A living saint I revere much because of the impact of love I felt upon meeting her, Amritanandamayi Amma, or 'the hugging saint' as some of the media calls her (www.ammachi.org), says that one will achieve self-realization only when he/ she gives up that 'goal', too. As Alpha said, first we have to accept our being unbounded and then to accept the bounden; beautiful, Alpha!

[Noway2Zero]

cool thanks for the link starry i had not heard of her before must have been a pleasure to meet her in person

happiness is the result of expressing Love and removing desire/possessions

to the extent you do these things your hapiness will be measured accordingly

doctrine does not matter i agree completely with her on this :)

[sahyo]

happiness is the result of expressing Love and removing desire/possessions

not caused nor thought as happiness

[sahyo]

that phrase 'practice religion' was used be Taeguk,

thanks :)

[sahyo]

we saw that very few of us are actually just be-ing most of the time and need to practise it to do it more consistently, like through meditation.

not of "doing"

[Noway2Zero]

not caused nor thought as happiness

happiness : a state of well-being and contentment : JOY


Live in joy,
In love,
Even among those who hate.
Live in joy,
In health,
Even among the afflicted.
Live in joy,
In peace,
Even among the troubled.
Live in joy,
Without possessions.
Like the shining ones.
-Buddha, Dhammapada 15.) Joy

[sahyo]

don't hang on that

[sahyo]

wanting/ doing things/ making a 'goal' of being happy instead of just be-ing, is one of the sure ways of not being happy....



yes starry :)


Effort is a distraction from what is. The moment I accept what is there is no struggle. Any form of struggle or strife is an indication of distraction; and distraction, which is effort, must exist so long as psychologically I wish to transform what is into something it is not.

. . . It is only if you are aware of inward insufficiency and live with it without escape, accepting it wholly, that you will discover an extraordinary tranquillity, a tranquillity which is not put together, made up, but a tranquillity which comes with understanding of what is.

J Krishnamurti

[bito]

Happy needs belief in self.

There is no self.

Joy, bliss, IS.

[Michael]

You speak as though out of the IS.

?

[bito]

You speak as though out of the IS.

?

Awareness speaks.

:)

[bito]

we saw that very few of us are actually just be-ing most of the time and need to practise it to do it more consistently, like through meditation.

Meditation is not the action of being, meditation is the way to see that there is no self.

Practice is the flowering of this seeing, for the mind has long believed that a self exists.

[Michael]

:)

[sahyo]

Meditation is not the action of being, meditation is the way to see that there is no self.

Practice is the flowering of this seeing, for the mind has long believed that a self exists.




meditation not as a practice but as a way of life

Osho

[Taeguk]

Hi!

A while back Starry Canopy said:

It seems that our first responsibility towards God is to be happy

I responded by saying:

How much more heartfelt would the practice of religion be if all people viewed their ultimate goal as simply "to be happy", in the fullest sense of that word.


In response to this, asheera wrote:

not if thinking-wanting-"goal"

And AlphaAuriage wrote:

It is easy to choose being bound.

Nationality, religion, location, team, family, love, responsibility.

The diffculty is to be unbounden, to move beyond the bounds, to be beyond the bounds, to accept that we are unbounded.

And then, bodhisattva, to accept the bounden.

I think the observations made by asheera and AlphaAuriage are very well-said! :)

Today I found a brief passage from His Holiness the Dalai Lama on "happiness" from a Buddhist perspective.

From The Art of Happiness by Dr. Howard Cutler and Tenzin Gyatso:


Dr. Howard Cutler, an Arizona-based psychiatrist and the author of The Art of Happiness: A Handbook for Living, is no exception to this trend. What makes his book unique, however, is Dr. Cutler's source for the Buddhist thought he explores: his coauthor, Tenzin Gyatso, His Holiness the Fourteenth Dalai Lama, the spiritual and temporal leader of the people of Tibet.

Through a series of in-depth conversations with the Dalai Lama, and through a number of the Dalai Lama's public addresses, Dr. Cutler explores what Tibetan Buddhism might have to offer to Western conceptions of happiness. Dr. Cutler begins with the Dalai Lama's words on the subject:

"I believe that the very purpose of our life is to seek happiness. That is clear. Whether one believes in religion or not, whether one believes in this religion or that religion, we are all seeking something better in life. So, I think, the very motion of our life is toward happiness..."

As their further conversation reveals, however, Western notions of happiness have become confused with pleasure and the satisfaction of desire. Only by separating happiness from less durable forms of contentment can we truly achieve the happiness that the Dalai Lama believes is the goal of our lives:

"...from my point of view, the highest happiness is when one reaches the stage of Liberation, at which there is no more suffering. That's genuine, lasting happiness. True happiness relates more to the mind and heart. Happiness that depends mainly on physical pleasure is unstable; one day it's there, the next day it may not be."

I find it interesting that his comments seem to weave together things that have been said throughout our discussion :)

[Noway2Zero]

indeed,

like a shockwave..

nothing needs to be done!

[Starry_Canopy]

Thank you, Sheera, four your quote from the gentlest giant I've known.

Effort is a distraction from what is. The moment I accept what is there is no struggle. Any form of struggle or strife is an indication of distraction; and distraction, which is effort, must exist so long as psychologically I wish to transform what is into something it is not.

. . . It is only if you are aware of inward insufficiency and live with it without escape, accepting it wholly, that you will discover an extraordinary tranquillity, a tranquillity which is not put together, made up, but a tranquillity which comes with understanding of what is.

J Krishnamurti

[sahyo]

thank you starry :)

[sahyo]

nothing needs to be done!



:)

[Noway2Zero]

new name sheera ? what sayho mean?

[sahyo]

:)

word

asheera

word

sahyo

didn't

doesn't

meaning

[Noway2Zero]

so then why change?

[sahyo]

are whying ?

[Noway2Zero]

yes, am wondering ..if they both mean nothing why switch? <_<

[sahyo]

wondering why raining

sunningtmoonflower

songingbird

strawberrying

?

[Noway2Zero]

nope, just why you changed names :P

[sahyo]

so what difference?

;)

hehe

[Starry_Canopy]

When the soul sings, the song comprises the vedas.

When the energy inherent in the various syllables 'condense'/ 'solidify' we get the different 'forms' of creation, whose names are the pattern of vibration of the syllables that formed into them.

asheera/ sheera and sahyo ... are they partial truths about you? :)

[Olivier]

when i meditate, i sit and take some time to calm myself...
then i visualise someone i know, and i wish him to be well and to be someday free of all suffering. Then I visualise other people and extend my wish as far as I can, I finish by wishing all things in the whole universe to be someday free of all suffering. It usually takes about 20 minutes, and I sit in the lotus position.
Oli

[Noway2Zero]

thank you for wishing me well

i am knowing you already are well :) the same for all things 'inside and not inside the universe' are well !

[sahyo]

When the energy inherent in the various syllables 'condense'/ 'solidify' we get the different 'forms' of creation, whose names are the pattern of vibration of the syllables that formed into them.



yes could say that though not just that




asheera/ sheera and sahyo ... are they partial truths about you? :)



"partial truths" ? :)

[sahyo]

i visualise someone i know, and i wish him to be well and to be someday free of all suffering. Then I visualise other people and extend my wish as far as I can, I finish by wishing all things in the whole universe to be someday free of all suffering.




j krishnamurti:


To begin with, that word ‘meditation’ has a very special significance to you, has it not? You immediately think of sitting in a certain posture, breathing in a certain way, forcing the mind to concentrate on something, and so on. But to me that is not meditation at all. To me meditation is entirely different; and if you and I are to share this inquiry into what is meditation, you will obviously have to put aside your prejudices, your conditioned thinking about meditation.


‘Meditation is a movement in and of the unknown … it is that energy that thought-matter cannot touch. Thought is perversion for it is the product of yesterday … Everything put together by thought is within the area of noise, and thought can in no way make itself still … thought itself must be still for silence to be. Silence is always now as thought is not. Thought, always being old, cannot possibly enter into that silence which is always new. The new becomes the old when thought touches it … Love can only be when thought is still. This stillness can in no way be manufactured by thought … this stillness can never be touched by thought. Thought is always old, but love is not … the flowering of goodness is not in the soil of thought’


You should really forget the word meditation. That word has been corrupted. The ordinary meaning of that word - to ponder over, to consider, to think about - is rather trivial and ordinary. If you want to understand the nature of meditation you should really forget the word because you cannot possibly measure with words that which is not measurable, that which is beyond all measure. No words can convey it, nor any systems, modes of thought, practice or discipline. Meditation - or rather if we could find another word which has not been so mutilated, made so ordinary, corrupt, which has become the means of earning a great deal of money - if you can put aside the word, then you begin quietly end gently to feel a movement that is not of time. Again, the word movement implies time - what is meant is a movement that has no beginning or end. A movement in the sense of a wave: wave upon wave, starting from nowhere and with no beach to crash upon. It is an endless wave.

[Noway2Zero]

wow, very cool is this the whole essay or is there a link so i can print it out ?

[sahyo]

excerpts from
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/meditate.htm

:)

[Noway2Zero]

thanks :D

liked his website too..

[sahyo]

thanks

cool :D

[Olivier]

thank you for your answer, maybe the concept of meditation is corrupted because english is not my native language, or because it became as you said so ordinary.

[sahyo]

thank you sharing oliver

[sahyo]

AlphaAurigae: You speak as though out of the IS.


bito : Awareness speaks.


Krishnauturti: The moment there is no observer, there is no awareness of being aware.

[bito]

bito : Awareness speaks.


Krishnauturti: The moment there is no observer, there is no awareness of being aware.


The word awareness is empty of observer.

Both statements are the same.

[bito]

bito : Awareness speaks.


Krishnauturti: The moment there is no observer, there is no awareness of being aware.



The word awareness is empty of observer.

Both statements are the same.


L :) ve

[bito]

all you are is :love:



:dancing:

[sahyo]

The word awareness is empty of observer.

Both statements are the same.


wasn't referring word awareness,
but posting bito claiming

[sahyo]

actually all of these spiritual professionals linked remind of the fashion industry too and i like both the spiritual and fashion 'designers'

that thinking is you

[bito]

wasn't referring word awareness,
but posting bito claiming

There is nothing to claim.

Is sahyo comparing posts for judgment?

[sahyo]

AlphaAurigae: You speak as though out of the IS.


bito : Awareness speaks.


Krishnauturti: The moment there is no observer, there is no awareness of being aware.

[bito]

that thinking is you

:P

What do you think I am claiming by saying "Awareness speaks"?

[sahyo]

:lol:

[bito]

:idea:


AlphaAurigae: You speak as though out of the IS.

bito: You? though? out? of? the?


:D

[sahyo]

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/71.gif

[sahyo]

bito tea?

[Noway2Zero]

what tea?

[sahyo]

ask bito

[Noway2Zero]

;)

[sahyo]

;)

[the_aphid]

Rather than starting a new thread, I thought I would attempt to revive this older thread Taeguk has already started.

I have been doing a little research into Transcendental Meditation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_meditation) and am curious in discussing the various methods of meditation. I am aware that there has already been some discussion in this thread as to whether or not certain forms might be more effective, or 'better', than others. However, that is not really of concern to me, because I realize that is far more likely that different methods are most beneficial for different individuals.

Anyways, when looking into it I realized that there are Maharishi Invincibility Centres throughout the world where you can receive training in the practice of TM by teachers who have themselves been trained by the founder Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Now there are free introductory lessons, however the course fees aren't exactly cheap, $2400 here in Canada, according to this (http://www.maharishi.ca/en/where/where.php) site.

Now I'm not so skeptical as to believe that it is not a worthy investment, but what exactly is the benefit of learning from an experienced teacher? I suppose the same thing as learning anything from an experienced teacher, without one the learning process can be much longer, and much more frustrating, however it leaves me wondering; Has anyone here effectively learned the practices of TM? On their own or with the aid of an instructor?

[Taeguk]

Anyways, when looking into it I realized that there are Maharishi Invincibility Centres throughout the world where you can receive training in the practice of TM by teachers who have themselves been trained by the founder Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Now there are free introductory lessons, however the course fees aren't exactly cheap, $2400 here in Canada, according to this (http://www.maharishi.ca/en/where/where.php) site.

Yikes! $2400?! :blink: I admittedly don't know much about TM (as it's somewhat before my time), but something about that just screams "McGuru". My advise would be perhaps to try the free introductory lessons, but skip the immense fee.


Now I'm not so skeptical as to believe that it is not a worthy investment, but what exactly is the benefit of learning from an experienced teacher? I suppose the same thing as learning anything from an experienced teacher, without one the learning process can be much longer, and much more frustrating, however it leaves me wondering; Has anyone here effectively learned the practices of TM? On their own or with the aid of an instructor?

I don't have any experience with TM. I started my "meditation career" (meager as it is) on my own, trying to meditate a little every day. At that point, I didn't find it very helpful----I was unsure of what was "supposed to happen", unsure of what kind of experiences were significant, which weren't, unsure of what to focus on, etc.

I then received instruction from a Theravada Buddhist Dharma teacher, who helped clear up all of my confusion. He helped ground me enough in my practice that I no longer felt frustration, confusion, doubt, etc, or at least not to the degree that I did before. After meeting him I began to feel like meditation had a notable impact on my life (certainly it did on my "inner" life). I took something of a "crash course" in Buddhism/meditation, which lasted for a month. During that time I met Buddhists from different traditions, learned about the Dharma, different meditation styles etc, all while remaining largely under that teacher. That month was probably one of the most stimulating times in my life.

For a number of reasons, I wound up parting company with that teacher, but I wouldn't mind studying under him again. At this point I'm "flying solo", so to speak. Whether or not that will change in the future, I'm not sure; I have the feeling I'm sort of "between teachers" at the moment, which is perfectly fine with me.

I do advise seeking out some kind of teacher, the aphid, since they can help give you enough of a grounding to explore on your own. They can also provide enough discipline and structure for you so that the meditation becomes a regular practice, and that can be a gift that lasts long after the teacher has left.

Having said that, I do advise you to find a more affordable teacher. Granted I don't make very much money, but $2400 seems a tad outrageous! I don't remember how much my first teacher charged, but it was nowhere near that amount of money. And not too far from where I live is a Chan Buddhist monastery that offers meditation classes for free (speaking of which, I may check them out sometime soon...).

So by all means, seek out a teacher, but one you feel you can afford. Dedicate yourself to a practice, but don't feel you have to dedicate yourself to any one teacher in order to stay with that practice.

[Taeguk]

While I realize this Zen center is no where near you, the aphid, this is just to show that there are far more affordable options, vis a vis meditation:

A 2-hour introductory class on Zen Buddhism and the physical, mental, spiritual and life-enhancing benefits of Zen meditation. Offered on Saturdays at 8:30 a.m. with the option to stay for a 10:30 a.m. Dharma talk and complementary lunch afterwards. Suggested fee $15.
(a Los Angeles Zen Center (http://www.hazymoon.com/Schedule/Classes/tabid/63/Default.aspx))

$15 vs. $2,4000! :lol: And notice, that's a suggested donation. My guess is they'd give it to you for free!

I've personally had the best luck from monasteries or other such organizations; are there any in your area, the aphid?

[the_aphid]

$15 vs. $2,4000! :lol: And notice, that's a suggested donation. My guess is they'd give it to you for free!

I've personally had the best luck from monasteries or other such organizations; are there any in your area, the aphid?Yes, there are certainly a few in the Greater Vancouver Area that I could attend, and I am most definitely going to look around and take advantage of some free lessons. I certainly don't have $2400 to spend on this type of practice now, but was more or less curious if anyone here at TBV had done anything similar and if they feel it'd be worth it. Basically, has anyone made such a large financial investment into the practice and would even suggest this to others? I suppose that the amount you pay is arbitrary if you are truly dedicated and willing to make the more necessary spiritual investment. When I saw that price, I have to agree with you, I became very skeptical of the 'McGuru-ism' possibility. Once something becomes trendy and popular, it seems almost inevitable that people will try to profit from it.

My plan for the New Year (resolution?) is to begin seeking out some guidance in this practice, through the aid of experienced teachers and with the help of books.

[Thomas Knierim]

Unfortunately I don't know much about "transcendental meditation". Paying $2,400 to an authentic teacher would be enormously meritorious and I recommend it if you can afford it. On the other hand, paying $2,400 to a fake guru would be a double waste of money and effort. Unless you are pretty sure about the teacher, it's probably more sensible to look for an alternative with lower stakes... :lol:

Cheers, Thomas

[the_aphid]

I have been listening to some audiotapes/lectures of Alan Watts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts), while waiting for a book by Peter Russell.

He is a pleasure to listen to, I noticed a couple of things that seemed out of the ordinary when discussing methods of meditation. One suggestion he gives in one of his lectures is to babble incoherently, childishly, purely as a release of breathe and to provide 'noise' to focus your thought on. Listening to the lecture everyone just started laughing however and he said then that this might happen even on your own and that is fine, but will only serve a purpose of helping you relax. He suggests then to chant, from the back of the throat, an "AAAUUUUMMM" which you repeat, and can vary, between breaths. Now this seemed familiar as I have heard the chants of meditating monks before, however I was under the impression that this was only beneficial when meditating in a group where the sound would be consistent, the tone withheld by the group. But alone does this not seem to be a distraction? Some other suggestions he made were things like metronomes or incense to focus on sensation, thus allowing you to become detached from your thoughts and simply be an observer of them.

Has anyone tried such practices, do you continue to use them, did you find them effective?