Spiritual Philosophy

[scameter]

I created this, to illustrate my spiritual views. Tell me what you think. :)

Vitaeism
Belief in Deity
There is no God, specifically. There is only the Spirit. The Spirit encompasses all that is life; existence derives from life. The Spirit is life, or, the spirit of life. Everything in existence is apart of, and indeed are, the Spirit. Human beings, however, aren't always open to it's access; for humans to become open to it, we must become passive and receptive, open to it to flow into us. The Spirit is not worshipped beyond simply living; living is worship.
Incarnations
There are no incarnations, as all are Spirit. Jesus is the only recognized true incarnation of Spirit, but only in the sense that he totally embodied Spirit in it's purest essence, and was born with this characteristic.
Origin of Universe and Life
Spirit is life; life is Spirit. Life and existence derive from Spirit, as Spirit is a creative, changing, continuing thing.
After Death
Death is apart of Spirit, and life, and is simply seen as the transformation and change of physical things in existence into other forms of life. For humans, death is a release of their individual spiritual identities, as they are within the Spirit, into the wholeness of the Spirit fully. The effort of humans in life to become open to it is important simply because it allows one to experience Spirit during life. For animals, they are already fully apart of the Spirit in life, and so simply transform into another form of life in existence perpetually, but not negatively.
Why Evil?
Evil is ignorance, or lack of awareness, and a lack of compassion, and a consumption of the individual with selfishness. This is not to say that selflessness is stressed; merely to say that total selfishness in an individual, without any effort by them to look beyond their personal desires, is illustration of one's ignorance of their connection to Spirit.
Salvation
Salvation comes through death. Salvation is the release of an individual human from the prison of inevitable subjectivity and spiritual ignorance afforded by being alive in existence. This is not to say that life is bad or undesired, for if that were true, it would not exist. Rather, that death is apart of life and Spirit, and is a release of people from the unchosen confines of subjectivity, to allow an individual into the Spirit.
Undeserved Suffering
Undeserved suffering occurs for humans in existence both because of a seperation from nature and because of inevitable subjectivity and spiritual ignorance, which is caused by humans being in existence. Undeserved cannot totally stop, and true freedom be reached, until death. There will always be undeserved and unchosen suffering in life for humans. Any other undeserved suffering in existence does not exist except to the discriminating minds of humans who have choice, and thus are capable of seeing their suffering as unchosen. For other animals that suffer, it is not undeserved, as they did not not choose it; they don't have choice at all.
Contemporary Issues
Abortion only occurs when a woman has a baby either without her choice, or without her awareness of her needs and desires at the time and for the future. This ignorance is acceptable and natural, and so a woman's choice for abortion is accepted. Homosexuality occurs without choice by humans, and so is totally natural; without human discrimination to deem it differently, it would not be seen as bad or good as in the rest of nature. Thus, it is not bad, or good; it simply is, and is accepted as being so. Compassion is a quality spiritual awareness, and so things related to it, such as nonviolence, anti-poverty, anti-hunger, and equality are all celebrated. Anything promoting the characteristics of spiritual awareness- namely, compassion, reason, and freedom specifically- is celebrated and encouraged.

[Michael]

Fascinating and provocative post which, when I knock on it, doesn't resonate as Scam.

The manner in which it speaks of Spirit reminds me strongly of bito.

The Christification of Spirit must be a moot point.

The ignoring of sexual differenciation is implicit in the Spirit as One.

On unchosen suffering - there is also the chosen suffering, or the accepted suffering
which is balm for all.

Very dense(in the fecund sense).

Nice one, thanks Scam.

Why so coy abour origins?

[scameter]

Coy? How so?

[Michael]

What was your source for the quotation, or was that you?

[scameter]

I did it. I made it to illustrate my spiritual views. Although I think you're seeing it as a bit too religious, or monistic; I wasn't dictating any political viewpoints there, except acceptance.

[Michael]

Thank you.

[scameter]

:)

[scameter]

Any other opinions...?

[sahyo]

Jesus is the only recognized true incarnation of Spirit, but only in the sense that he totally embodied Spirit in it's purest essence, and was born with this characteristic.




"characteristic"?

[Starry_Canopy]

Jesus is the only recognized true incarnation of Spirit, but only in the sense that he totally embodied Spirit in it's purest essence, and was born with this characteristic.


I am sorry, I don't mean to be contentious. But this statement needs a few qulifications in order to hold true:
1. Recognized by whom? - not everyone recognizes this.
2. 'only' true incarnation - I don't know about the other religions, but every Hindu will contest this claim.

[bito]

Any other opinions...?

Opinions are thinking of spirit. How is this possible?

What do you see?

[sahyo]

characteristic-attribute

words cannot

[sahyo]

:)

what's to bestow?

[sahyo]

in hindusism the term would be 'attribute'

in hinduism you can have god or gods with or without atrributes

[sahyo]

what is in it for you



not that

:)

[scameter]

She does it for the same reason anyone who is opposed to words - Taoists, for instance - write: to give a "glimpse" of the truth, as they believe is all words are capable of doing.

[Noway2Zero]

oh i see

we are all blind

and require her to 'glimpse' for us


how very kind

:boxing: = :(

[Starry_Canopy]

She does it for the same reason anyone who is opposed to words - Taoists, for instance - write: to give a "glimpse" of the truth, as they believe is all words are capable of doing.


My belief is that they are successful with that technique because they have cosmic consciousness and know precisely what thoughts will be triggered off in our brains by their specific words.

Without a pre-knowledge of this sort, or consciousness of another person's thoughts, it can't see how this technique can be applied.

This is because, we all share only an approximately similar vocabulary and an even more dissimilar pattern of association of words and ideas in out brains. So, if one of us says just one or a few words which stand for a truth of our realisation, it is not inevitable that this word or phrase will trigger the same glimpse of truth in the listener.

Because of this, I agree with Psyche that we need more words to communicate clearly with one another here. Sorry Asheera, but I have also had a similar difficulty with this method, though I do see a few others and you just exchange words/ phrases one at a time and smiley faces and congrats symbols and what have you and seem quite fulfilled with that discussion! Amazing, really! But there are people like the other type too, I for one, who can't understand such pithy language. :)

[scameter]

My belief

Yep.

[Starry_Canopy]

:lol:

For instance, Scam, I can't understand whether you said 'yep' to my belief as it was described by me or to the fact that it was 'my' belief (not necessarily that of others)...

This is the kind of difficulty I was trying to express :)

[scameter]

The difficulty of having to think? :) I don't use asheera's method, of that Eastern parabalic stuff of putting down an allegorical phrase with no meaning, and yet meaning in the nothingness. But, I do, quite often, put down sentences with hidden meanings, or multiple meanings, where one has to actually think. I'm not a mathematician; not everything is simply right infront of you.

And, out of curiosity psyche... why did you mean by: scam... was born with this characteristic?

[scameter]

Ok, here we are: this is an update to my initial post, an edited form of my beginning philosophy. As I forgot to note, I will often update this philosophy, as the clarity of my mind in seeing the truth changes over time, and as reason guides me further. Enjoy, and please do comment; I look for change.

My Spiritual Philosophical Path

Belief in Deity
God is the aspect of existence that is Mind, but is in the ultimate form of Creator. God's Mind possesses every single quality of the human mind, in every aspect, as our mind is a reflection, intentionally, of his, by his own making. The only difference between us and him is that we have life, and a body to live in it with, which God doesn't; God is incorporeal, as Mind.

Incarnations
There are no incarnations, as all are independant. Jesus is the only recognized true incarnation of Mind, but only in the sense that he totally mirrored Mind in it's purest essence, and was born with this capability.
Origin of Universe and Life

God is what created, originally, nature, and what inspires it to continue creating, and what keeps it ordered and enforces evolution. Will and identity of the various things in life, however, is very emphasized; God has his Mind Creator will in/as nature, but God created humans and the other animals in nature with their own wills, including the ability of sub-creation after his own creativity, mimicing his. We are as God, in Mind; we are God's creation, and apart of God's mind, in body; nature is God's creation and apart of God's Mind. God is Mind.

After Death
Death as apart of nature, and is simply seen as the transformation and creation of physical things in existence into other forms of life. But, death as Mind, in the independant individuals in existence with their wills, is different; when things that were alive die, or otherwise cease to exist as they were if the thing was never alive, leave the realm of life and the body, and move on to the realm of spirit with God. But, ultimately, death is only important in that it is what makes life important- if not for death, everything in life would not change, and so creation would not be important, nor would, ultimately, mind, and so neither would God or any of God's creation.
Why Evil?
Evil is a lack of respect for, awareness of, caring for, and reception of Good. Good is the form of Mind that is in accordance with God and life, instead of in an attempt to dominate it; it is the living mind's use of it's mental abilities at sub-creation for feelingful, artistic, and generally spiritual living of life as it is, in rememberence of the importance given to it by death.

Salvation
Salvation comes through death. Salvation is the release of an individual human from the prison of inevitable subjectivity and spiritual ignorance afforded by being alive in existence. This is not to say that life is bad or undesired, for if that were true, it would not exist. Rather, that death is apart of life and God, and is a release of people from the unchosen confines of subjectivity, to allow an individual into God's home beyond, after the journey that is life.
Undeserved Suffering
Undeserved suffering occurs for humans in existence both because of a seperation from nature and because of inevitable subjectivity and spiritual ignorance, which is caused by humans being in existence. Undeserved cannot totally stop, and true freedom be reached, until death. There will always be undeserved and unchosen suffering in life for humans. Any other undeserved suffering in existence does not exist except to the discriminating minds of humans who have choice, and thus are capable of seeing their suffering as unchosen. For other identities in nature, their minds are totally connected to nature and are in harmony with life and the bodies that house their minds within it, and so simply see their suffering as apart of it; any unchosen suffering they have they either see it this way, if it is caused by simply being alive, or if humans, with their general lack of connection to nature because of their abilities to sub-create, cause it, they see it as undeserved, although they are generally passive, except for some other animals who are more aggressive.

Contemporary Issues
Abortion only occurs when a woman has a baby either without her choice, or without her awareness of her needs and desires at the time and for the future. This ignorance is acceptable and natural, and so a woman's choice for abortion is accepted, as long as she permits the abortion of course. Homosexuality occurs without choice by humans, and so is totally natural; without human discrimination to deem it differently, it would not be seen as bad or good as in the rest of nature. Thus, it is Good; it simply is, and should be accepted as being so. Compassion is a quality of Goodness and it's characteristic of spiritual awareness in the minds of humans, and so things related to it, such as nonviolence, anti-poverty, anti-hunger, and equality are all celebrated. Anything promoting the characteristics of Goodness- namely, compassion, reason, spiritual awareness and freedom specifically- is celebrated and encouraged.

[bito]

Ok, here we are: this is an update to my initial post, an edited form of my beginning philosophy. As I forgot to note, I will often update this philosophy, as the clarity of my mind in seeing the truth changes over time, and as reason guides me further. Enjoy, and please do comment; I look for change.

Your mind can never see truth.

Truth never changes.

Reason will guide you to a wall of divided thinking that reason can not tear down or see through. Spiritual philosophy serves but one purpose, and that is, to bring the seeker to the end of the road of thought.

All dialogue about spirituality is a grasping and a building up of self, and a letting go and a tearing down of self. The cosmic joke is that there is no self to build up or tear down. Intuition tells us this is so, but ego lives by the trial and error of experiential learning. Ergo, we experience the fire of longing for that which already is, before we can joyfully exclaim "it (experience) is finished!"

[sahyo]

All dialogue about spirituality is a grasping

only if thinking 'about'

[Taeguk]

Jesus is the only recognized true incarnation

What about:

Zoraster?

Krishna?

Siddartha Gotama?

Socrates?

Lao Tzu?

Muhammad?

Guru Nanak?

Bab?

All the others?


Truth never changes.

:)

[scameter]

Bito, yes I know; I essentially said that already, when I said that my views change as the clarity of my mind improves. To me, my mind, and it's vision of truth, can never be totally clear, as I can never totally escape subjectivity.

Taeguk, personally, I don't see any of those as being as truly incarnated of Mind as was Jesus, from what I've studied of them; now, true, I haven't studied as much of the others as I have Jesus, so perhaps I am wrong. But, currently, I see him as having had totally embodied Mind.

[Taeguk]

Hi scameter! Thanks for your honest reply. :)

You wrote:

Taeguk, personally, I don't see any of those as being as truly incarnated of Mind as was Jesus, from what I've studied of them; now, true, I haven't studied as much of the others as I have Jesus, so perhaps I am wrong. But, currently, I see him as having had totally embodiedMind.

Interesting perspective!

Would you consider yourself Christian, then?

In some ways your writing reminds a little of G.W.F. Hegel, who also held that history was the unfolding of Spirit.

But tell me, scameter, what do you mean exactly by "Mind"?

You also wrote:

To me, my mind, and it's vision of truth, can never be totally clear, as I can never totally escape subjectivity.

I think maybe this is at the heart of bito's comments; the ego or the "self" can only know so much. Surrender the notion of self, cease clinging to your ideas, and receive the light of pure insight. Realize you and this light are not seperate.

The truth is before your eyes, "vibrating in every thing and no-thing".

[scameter]

Hi scameter! Thanks for your honest reply.

Surely.

Would you consider yourself Christian, then?

I do not. Especially not in the form of organized Christianity. I simply recognize Jesus as having had truly embodied Mind, as I describe it, this conclusion of mine having been gotten simply by looking at him.

But tell me, scameter, what do you mean exactly by "Mind"?

Interesting question. To me, Mind is creativity, will, identity, the embodiment of Good and, equally, the embodiment of the capacity for Evil; it is spirit, as it is, and Mind is also the expression, and capability of expression of, spirit. God is Mind, the original Mind, and what all others minds are reflections of. The only difference between us and God is that God does not have a body, which is something he created. And, by sub-creation, which is the form of creation other minds besides God are capable of, I mean creation as a reflection version of God's ability, but as being the creation from things in existence which we are currently in; unlike God, who created simply from his mind. Humans are the only things on earth with a total reflection of God's Mind, but other animals do have Mind, but a more limited version of it; they are more connected with their bodies and with created nature/existence/life than humans are, and so as God is, this being brought about mainly by their lack of sub-creativity.

I think maybe this is at the heart of bito's comments; the ego or the "self" can only know so much. Surrender the notion of self, cease clinging to your ideas, and receive the light of pure insight. Realize you and this light are not seperate.

Indeed, as I also pointed out, to him. Except that I don't believe humans are capable of "surrendering", until death.

[Taeguk]

scameter:

I do not. Especially not in the form of organized Christianity. I simply recognize Jesus as having had truly embodied Mind, as I describe it, this conclusion of mine having been gotten simply by looking at him.

What about a Christian in the loosest sense of the word, as in, "one who follows Christ and his teachings?" If Jesus is the only one you acknowledge as having truly embodied Mind, I'd think you'd want to follow his example very closely.

Have you seen Jesus? And if so, in what sense?

You also wrote:

To me, Mind is creativity, will, identity, the embodiment of Good and, equally, the embodiment of the capacity for Evil; it is spirit, as it is, and Mind is also the expression, and capability of expression of, spirit. God is Mind, the original Mind, and what all others minds are reflections of. The only difference between us and God is that God does not have a body, which is something he created. And, by sub-creation, which is the form of creation other minds besides God are capable of, I mean creation as a reflection version of God's ability, but as being the creation from things in existence which we are currently in; unlike God, who created simply from his mind. Humans are the only things on earth with a total reflection of God's Mind, but other animals do have Mind, but a more limited version of it; they are more connected with their bodies and with created nature/existence/life than humans are, and so as God is, this being brought about mainly by their lack of sub-creativity.

What is "Spirit"?

And how is Mind both Spirit, and the expression of Spirit? Do you draw a distinction between the two?

I find your description of God as Mind, and creation, to be fascinating! Let me see if I understand:

There is only one Mind, which we all partake in, and this Mind created bodies which contain limited "parts" of it. Is this correct?

Let me ask you, though: If Mind is one, why is it I don't know what you are thinking?

Why did God/Mind decide to "divide itself up" into bodies?

What did God/Mind make bodies out of?

Are bodies also Mind? If not, what's the difference?

What about "objects", like rocks, supernovas, oxygen molecules, etc.? Do they have Mind? Are they Spirit?

You also mentioned that we are "the only beings with a total reflection of God's mind", which is why I find it puzzling you would go on to write:

I don't believe humans are capable of "surrendering", until death

But how is this so if we possess a "total reflection of God's mind"?

Do you believe Jesus was a perfect reflection of Mind before he died, or only after he died? Why was he able to perfectly embody Mind, and the rest of us unable? What made him so special?

What about Dharmic religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Taoism, Sikhism, etc.)? They all seem to think that you can surrender here and now.

[scameter]

What about a Christian in the loosest sense of the word, as in, "one who follows Christ and his teachings?" If Jesus is the only one you acknowledge as having truly embodied Mind, I'd think you'd want to follow his example very closely.

That is not how I see it, personally. To me, yes, Jesus embodied Mind fully, but to say to follow his example would be to make him, in a sense, a prophet of Mind and God, which he was not. One should strive for Mind, but not to be like Jesus, if you see.

Have you seen Jesus? And if so, in what sense?

By that I look at him, I meant that I study the historical person that was Jesus.

What is "Spirit"?

Well, to be honest, my mind really isn't composed much on the topic of spirit yet, so do not take what I am about to proclaim as being as clear as it can be with my thought into it. To me, spirit is what mind is; it is it's essence, but by this I do not mean it's core. I mean the matter that composes mind, that is composed in a way to form what is mind, but it is not matter in the physical sense. Spirit is nothing, and so, spirit is the material that God used to create existence from.

I find your description of God as Mind, and creation, to be fascinating!

:) You know, I really do appreciate your compliment and interest my friend, honestly; it may be selfish, but it is a good selfishness for me to feel as good as I do about my sub-creation being complimented by your interest. Thank you, alot. :)

There is only one Mind, which we all partake in, and this Mind created bodies which contain limited "parts" of it. Is this correct?

No. There is not only one mind; when I use "mind" in a capitalized form, I am speaking of God's Mind, which is the ultimate source of everything that is. Other minds, which I do not capitalize, are reflections of God's Mind; but they are not actually one with God's Mind, if you see. Sort of like how a reflection in a mirror is in relation to that which it is reflecting.

What did God/Mind make bodies out of?

What I have said earlier in this post should explain. :)

What about "objects", like rocks, supernovas, oxygen molecules, etc.? Do they have Mind? Are they Spirit?

Hmm... interesting inquiry. Well, regarding the mind question, only other animals and humans have mind; other things have identity, however, because they were created from God's Mind and thus must have some of it in them, but they do not have awareness, which all animals have, or sub-creativity which only humans have, as they are total reflections of God's Mind. Now, regarding the spirit question, as I said before my mind isn't much made up regarding it, but I shall attempt an answer. Everything in existence has spirit in it, as spirit is the most basic building block of Mind, and because God created existence, all individual identities, of all kinds, within it have some spirit, which can be detected by other identities in existence that have spirit, which is all of them. Although I won't say currently, because I don't know at all this is simply an idea, the concept of spirit as being both nothing and being apart of existence and from the Mind of God, may have some relation to Evil.

But how is this so if we possess a "total reflection of God's mind"?

Because we have a body, which makes us inevitably subjective and tied to it, to an extent.

Do you believe Jesus was a perfect reflection of Mind before he died, or only after he died? Why was he able to perfectly embody Mind, and the rest of us unable? What made him so special?

I never said that we're unable. But simply that he was. And this being to the furthest extent possible for one with a body.

What about Dharmic religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Taoism, Sikhism, etc.)? They all seem to think that you can surrender here and now.

Mine is different.

[sahyo]

What about "objects", like rocks, supernovas, oxygen molecules, etc.? Do they have Mind? Are they Spirit?



The sun can only be seen by the light
of the sun. The more a man or woman knows,
the greater the bewilderment, the closer
to the sun the more dazzled, until a point
is reached where one no longer is.

A mystic knows without knowledge, without
intuition or information, without contemplation
or description or revelation. Mystics
are not themselves. They do not exist
in selves. They move as they are moved,
talk as words come, see with sight
that enters their eyes. I met a woman
once and asked her where love had led her.
"Fool, there's no destination to arrive at.
Loved one and lover and love are infinite."


Farid ud-Din Attar

[Noway2Zero]

Mine is different.

it is because you have 'mine' that it is different

so here is a question.. do you believe in the 'works' of Jesus The Christ?

[Taeguk]

asheera & Noway2Zero,

Indeed! ;)

As for the " self", it has been said:

What we call 'I' is just a swinging door that moves when we inhale and when we exhale.

As for mystics:

Look at this window: it is nothing but a hole in the wall, but because of it the whole room is full of light. So when the faculties are open, empty, the heart is full of light..

Do you suppose it surprising that a man, come from divine contemplation to the human world, is graceless and looks quite ridiculous when---with his sight still dim before he has gotten sufficiently accustomed to the surrounding darkness?

If a man were intelligent he would remember that there are two kinds of disturbances of vision, from two different sources---when they are transfered from light to darkness, and when they are transfered from darkness to light. And if he realized that these same things happened to the soul too, whenever he saw one that appears "confused" and unable to make anything out, he wouldn't laugh, but would consider whether, come from a brighter life, it is in darkness from lack of being accustomed.

The mind is often like a knife, chipping away at the Tao, trying to render it graspable and manageable. But that which is beyond form is ungraspable, and that which is beyond knowing is unmanageable. There is, however, this consolation: She who lets go of the knife will find the Tao at her fingertips.

scameter,

You have no need to thank me, friend. If I take an interest in your philosophy, it is because it itself is worthy of interest. :) Thank you for answering my questions with the paitience and consideration that you did. I hope you do not mind if I ask you a few more questions? I'll try not to make them as many as before! :lol:

Of God and Spirit, you said this:

Spirit is nothing, and so, spirit is the material that God used to create existence from.

So spirit is the material God used to create existence itself! But in order to do this, surely God must have existed first? Do you consider God to be somehow beyond existence itself? If this is the case, could we perhaps say, "God is not, and because he is not, all things are"? If this is the case, it might truly transform arguments about the "existence" of God!

About Jesus, you had these remarks:

To me, yes, Jesus embodied Mind fully, but to say to follow his example would be to make him, in a sense, a prophet of Mind and God, which he was not. One should strive for Mind, but not to be like Jesus, if you see.

I never said that we're unable [to join with Mind]. But simply that he was. And this being to the furthest extent possible for one with a body.


If we should strive for Mind, and Jesus was, to the fullest extent, an embodiment of Mind, why shouldn't we try to embody Mind as he did?

Finally, scameter, about the Dharmic religions you said simply: "mine is different." Are these other religions and worldviews simply mistaken, then?

[sahyo]

;)

[scameter]

it is because you have 'mine' that it is different

For mine to be different, yes that's true.

do you believe in the 'works' of Jesus The Christ?

That depends on the version of the recounting of what he did you are speaking of. I personally believe in the historical Jesus.

You have no need to thank me, friend. If I take an interest in your philosophy, it is because it itself is worthy of interest. Thank you for answering my questions with the paitience and consideration that you did. I hope you do not mind if I ask you a few more questions? I'll try not to make them as many as before!

:) Thanks. And, no of course not. In fact, please do; I thoroughly enjoy answering and posing questions (if not, I wouldn't enjoy philosophy as much as I do).

So spirit is the material God used to create existence itself! But in order to do this, surely God must have existed first? Do you consider God to be somehow beyond existence itself? If this is the case, could we perhaps say, "God is not, and because he is not, all things are"? If this is the case, it might truly transform arguments about the "existence" of God!

:) Yes, indeed. Good.

If we should strive for Mind, and Jesus was, to the fullest extent, an embodiment of Mind, why shouldn't we try to embody Mind as he did?

Because to do so would be to lose our own individual identity and personality, and instead attempt to mirror Jesus's identity. We should use his example as a teaching, but not as an example or code to go by. Each individual should think for themselves, even if they use as reference the thoughts of others, to strive towards their own embodiment of Mind.

Finally, scameter, about the Dharmic religions you said simply: "mine is different." Are these other religions and worldviews simply mistaken, then?

As mistaken as mine is, and as mistaken as any will be; nobody has totally clear vision, as I've said. Even Jesus didn't, although his view was the clearest one with a body can get, I think. But, I do think that many things, especially religions, have a core of truth, that is the original source of the thing, but that has become, usually, lost, replaced by a surrounding shell of lies, deceptions and opinion, instead of insight, to the utmost objectivity possible for humans. My goal is to see the core of everything, in it's truth; or, one of my goals, rather.