Tonglen

[______]

http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen1.php

This is a great practice that I've only touched on before recently. In this practice we use our own suffering to generate compassion for all.

Just thought I'd share. :D

[Jampa]

Tong-len (taking and giving) is to take all the sufferings of all sentient beings upon oneself, and also to give them all the good you may have. Good luck !
:blink:

[spiritual_emergency]

Tonglen is about the only meditation I've ever done. I've been recommending it for a few years now as a means of pain relief to others. I know it sounds weird to describe it as a form of pain relief but what I found was that if you're in pain, you often feel very alone there. Tonglen practice reminds you that you're not alone -- everyone goes through painful experiences.

Pema Chodron has a wonderful five minute audio that describes the spirit of Tonglen. I was drawn to it because it's a human voice and that can be comforting in the wee small hours of the morning.

See also: Pema Chodron: The Spirit of Tonglen (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/4/story_423_1.html) [Requires Real Player]

[marleylinguistics]

wow! ive been practicing zazen for a while and i have liked it. but i like the way tonglen presents itself, it so selfless, i can definately see myself practicing this.

[scameter]

I have been thinking about this a bit myself recently, although not with any correlations to any practice; only life. In life, it seems to me that suffering makes people more compassionate, and I believe this is because compassion, although many would hate to admit it, is the one feeling the compassion saying of the thing they are feeling compassion for, "How would I feel if this were happening to me..." And so, if one has suffered, it is easier for them to know how suffering feels, and thus for sympathetic to someone feeling it, than someone who has felt very little suffering.

[______]

...than someone who has felt very little suffering.
Who in this life has felt very little suffering?

[scameter]

Rich people, ignorant people, royal people, beautiful people, lucky people- and everything therein. Most suffering is brought about from our own people.

[Steven Coyle]

scameter,

Those that you speak of still suffer, because of their attachments.

[marleylinguistics]

i agree money and fame do not buy happiness, heh neither do any other wordly attachements, although some beg to differ, i know that the only thing ive ever gotten any true permenant pleasure from was love. nothing else can buy me happiness but for a moment.

[scameter]

Those that you speak of still suffer, because of their attachments.

Even though attachments themselves don't cause suffering, yes I know they suffer. But not as much as some people.

i agree money and fame do not buy happiness, heh neither do any other wordly attachements, although some beg to differ

I would. Money and fame, like anything that can give pleasure, can bring happiness; most peoples' view of happiness is too narrow. It's too much of what they want it to be, instead of what it actually is. Pleasure can cause happiness; just as much as security, ignorance, healthiness, and many other things. And even bliss.

[______]

Even though attachments themselves don't cause suffering, yes I know they suffer. But not as much as some people.
True, some suffer less than others, but none suffer little. All have great suffering.

[scameter]

True, some suffer less than others, but none suffer little. All have great suffering.

From a certain point of view.

HRH Princesd Diana led such a happy life - did she not
not

:D

[marleylinguistics]

but happiness caused by worldly things cannot be permenant. it is based upon conditions. "if you do this, or if you stay the same, you will make me happy" true happiness comes from unconditional love.

[scameter]

Definitely. True happiness; whole happiness. But even impermanent happiness is happiness, and because most people are so selfish that they cannot compromise and allow others to be truly happy as well, society has become one of addicts, addicted to the impermanent, brief happiness caused by pleasure, of all kinds. Drugs, sex, food, approval, accomplishment, money, power; all cause pleasure, and modern society is addicted to all of them.

[Dave]

Here goes my first post!!!

This thread about tonglen really got my attention. I've noticed that tonglen is generally considered a more advanced type of practice, requiring some understanding and dedication to master. However, it's also accessible in that novies are encouraged to give it a try at any point. As a novice myself, I have found myself attracted to tonglen much more than any type of medidation practice. Having been very close (emotionally and physically) to both the Katrina flood and the Tsunami, I had a chance to really dig deep and experience tonglen.

The tonglen practice has been, for me, the single most useful practice for me. I have gained so much from it, and despite the loss and despair that my recent tonglen practice has focused upon, it's brought me considerable refuge and joy and made me feel like I am making some tiny progress on the path. Facinating stuff :)

[namtso]

i remember one of my first spiritual teachers would use the word inimicable referring to people's unkind behavior and lately more and more when people are inimmicable to me or i remember times when people were i truly feel compassion for them

it has become obvious to me that these people are very unhappy

i don't get upset anymore - of course i am not elated - more a kind of shock that such misery is active in trying to reduce itself by attempting to cause misery

so compassion comes to the fore more readily for me now

? - http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=inimical
You brainy folk often have me scrambling for online dictionaries. No time for flabby minds on TBV. Certainly truth in what you say. Keep in mind too that sometimes fear that has been cultivated and developed due to real life experiences and causes people to close off. As for me, I'm a fortress unto myself. namtso castle. Such is life, not overly boring in here, but somewhat sterile just the same.

... Yes, I'll be quiet now

[bito]

it has become obvious to me that these people are very unhappy

People remain happy or unhappy because they believe themselves to be people.

:)

[WanderingTaoist]

People remain happy or unhappy because they believe themselves to be people.

What should they believe themselves to be?

[bito]

People remain happy or unhappy because they believe themselves to be people.

What should they believe themselves to be?


If you believe you are a person, then you are seeing with your physical eyes and are identified with your intellectual-emotional body and live/respond as if separate from other intellectual-emotional bodies. This is why people are happy and unhappy. When there is even a thread of belief in mind-body separation, in personhood, there is a seeking for equilibrium through thought, as if one can balance oneself through the 'ingestion' of this idea and the 'rejection' of that idea.

When you know that your ground or source is both you and is within you, and belongs not to thought or idea, then there is no need to seek beyond this knowledge for energy nourishment. You are energy and nourish yourself. Happiness is irrelevant. Unhappiness is impossible.

[WanderingTaoist]

If you believe you are a person, then you are seeing with your physical eyes and are identified with your intellectual-emotional body and live/respond as if separate from other intellectual-emotional bodies. This is why people are happy and unhappy. When there is even a thread of belief in mind-body separation, in personhood, there is a seeking for equilibrium through thought, as if one can balance oneself through the 'ingestion' of this idea and the 'rejection' of that idea.

When you know that your ground or source is both you and is within you, and belongs not to thought or idea, then there is no need to seek beyond this knowledge for energy nourishment. You are energy and nourish yourself. Happiness is irrelevant. Unhappiness is impossible.

What is the physical/intellectual/emotional body, then, but an expression of this one-ness----and this expression, we call "person"?

[bito]

What is the physical/intellectual/emotional body, then, but an expression of this one-ness----and this expression, we call "person"?

The physical-emotional-intellectual-intuitive body is an expression of oneness, but the concept of 'person' belongs to the realm of self or surface consciousness. When seen through the eyes of oneness, the body is a dance of light where happiness and unhappiness are unknown concepts.

If we should see this light always, it would not matter what we were doing in the world (the pursuit for personal happiness) for we would know we are the world. And what is there to be unhappy about when know we are the world?

[WanderingTaoist]

When seen through the eyes of oneness, the body is a dance of light where happiness and unhappiness are unknown concepts.

If we should see this light always, it would not matter what we were doing in the world (the pursuit for personal happiness) for we would know we are the world. And what is there to be unhappy about when know we are the world?

Thanks, that clarifys it (and it's a really beautiful way of putting it too, I might add) :)