Pursuit Of Happiness

[CSwriter1]

How much leisure time is too much leisure time, and what does the pursuit of happiness mean?

"The inquiry of truth, which is the love-making or wooing of it, the knowledge of truth, which is the prasie of it; and the belief of truth, which is the enjoying of it, is the soverign good of human natures."
Francis Bacon

[Thomas Knierim]

I am not sure, how the Francis Bacon quotation relates to the pursuit of happiness. Bacon seems to talk about the pursuit of knowledge rather than the pursuit of happiness. The statement reverberates with enthusiasm for inquiry, which is very characteristic for the leading thinkers of Bacon's period.

Ultimately, the quest for knowledge is a universal human trait, isn't it? It is undeveloped in some, suppressed in others, but it is quite inescapable and it always shines through. Even the most ignorant person maintains a measure of curiosity. It also raises the interesting question whether the pursuit of knowledge leads to happiness. Different opinions exist about this... :think:

Cheers, Thomas

[scameter]

"The inquiry of truth, which is the love-making or wooing of it, the knowledge of truth, which is the prasie of it; and the belief of truth, which is the enjoying of it, is the soverign good of human natures."
Francis Bacon

I agree with Thomas's perception of that; the quote seems more about knowledge than happiness.

Ultimately, the quest for knowledge is a universal human trait, isn't it? It is undeveloped in some, suppressed in others, but it is quite inescapable and it always shines through. Even the most ignorant person maintains a measure of curiosity. It also raises the interesting question whether the pursuit of knowledge leads to happiness. Different opinions exist about this...

I think it is a universal trait only in humans in many individuals, but not in all. I think belief is much more universal for humans, because you can be completely ignorant of much knowledge and yet hold true to your beliefs and know them extensively. Most tradition is nothing more than belief. But, I personally believe that emotion is the underlying thing in people; it is why we are curious and indeed want knowledge, it is why we hold beliefs, why we create and imagine, and why we do anything we do, besides of course necessary things, but if you notice, we have and still are making every effort to keep necessities on the sideline so we can pursue what we enjoy without distraction. I think emotion is reactive, in that we do not thinkingly create it, but I think we can create situations to make certain emotions come out, like making a tradegy to evoke sadness or horror to evoke fear, but I think that because we can create this situations, we thus know what incites these emotions, and thus we are capable of knowing, as individuals, what we enjoy, and what makes us happy. I think happiness is more than just enjoyment, however; I think it is also experiencing life, i.e. living, but I think enjoyment (not to be confused with pleasure, which is predominantly physical) is the main component of happiness. So, as the Hagakure (excuse my spelling) promotes, we should do what we are happy, and live life as we enjoy it, while we're here.

[______]

"Pursuit of Happiness..." <_< Well, what makes one happy?
:)

[scameter]

Living, as individuals, with their desires met and their anxieties not, and with the freedom to choose how to live that life exactly as they wish. I think this happiness is great - the entire goal of being human - but I also think that harmony is important, especially if this happiness is singularly pursued by all humans. For harmony to ensue, the happinesses of others must not be disturbed by the desires of one's self; as in, if I enjoy rape, but the other person is obviously not happy, it should not be pursued. I think the main aspect to harmony is choice, and entirely free, open choice at that. Nothing should be forced without choice, but also without ignorance of the thing being proposed. Thus, knowledge is also crucial to happiness, but not necessarily a passion for knowledge; only knowledge of an individual's circumstances and that of a proposition, and ultimately, of one's self.

[CSwriter1]

Thomas is right. Soldier of truth used a good quote. Scamemter you articulated yourself very well!

Now trying this site:

The Hellenist Quest for Universal Order (300 to 150 BC) - By Miles ...On-going Platonism and the new Stoicism stepped right into this thought mode. ... Greeks find happiness within themselves--apart from the public domain. ...
www.newgenevacenter.org/west/hellenistic2.htm - 40k - Cached - Similar pages

When I used Bacon's quote, I had Thomas Jeffereson and the the Declaration of Independence in mind. I think this subject, and the wider explanation of it, is very pertinent to today, because we are as in Athens in decay, or the Europe from which our forefathers separated themselves where royalty went into foolish wars and a few glutted themselves with luxury while the masses remained in poverty. These forefathers were literate in Greek and Roman classics, and I believe this is essential to correctly understanding democracy and the intended meaning of the pursuit of happiness.

[scameter]

Scamemter you articulated yourself very well!

:wub: Thanks.

Greeks find happiness within themselves--apart from the public domain. ...

Definitely. They were very individualistic people I believe, as well as introspective. Unlike the East, as I made a point of saying in another post.

I think this subject, and the wider explanation of it, is very pertinent to today, because we are as in Athens in decay, or the Europe from which our forefathers separated themselves where royalty went into foolish wars and a few glutted themselves with luxury while the masses remained in poverty. These forefathers were literate in Greek and Roman classics, and I believe this is essential to correctly understanding democracy and the intended meaning of the pursuit of happiness.

Well, the thing about modern happiness is, whereas in the past ideals, knowledge, wisdom and introspection were the ways to happiness, we now use narcissistic pleasure-seeking and the gaining of luxuries and security, as well as success of the individual even beyond the individualism of Greece, as the means to personal happiness. This is why America's population is so much more widely rich and monetarily heavy than that of other nations and cultures: we have put money and individual success via it first before everything else in the form of capitalism, and I think it is the most brilliant political move ever. The founding fathers of America knew what made the world go round, what made societies prosper, and what the people wanted, and so they gave it to them, in the forms of democratic republic and capitalism. They also thew in some humanism to make sure the people were treated well, but that again is merely because the people wanted it. By giving the people the ability to vote for what they want, and being able to truly make those wants real, the founding fathers made America the greatest society of all time, from a societal viewpoint. Not necessarily from an idealistic or ethical or religious viewpoint, but so as to the success of our nation.

[Michael]

Yes, I'd have to conclude that Bacon was talking about knowledge. Democrates expressed the same joy of the pursuit of knowledge when he said that he would give the throne of Persia to find one causal effect.

As for the pursuit of happiness, I've never heard of the verb attaining the object.

[liquidharmony]

The pursuit of knowledge can bring happiness. A child can sit for hours and be perfectly content tasting different colored crayons. knowledge doesn't only come in the form of books. I would consider going surfing to be knowledgeable, many would disagree, but I am learning every time I go. Some people when they reach a certain age, feel they know everything there is to know. Its usually around this same age when emotional problems or substance abuse takes the place of discovery. Knowledge may not always bring happiness, but an idle mind surely never will.

[CSwriter1]

Liquidharmony, you brought up an important point, I didn't know how to bring up- commitment. The pursuit of happiness is associated with commitment.
If you think you are learning something everytime you go surfing and that makes you happy, you must be committed to aquiring that knowledge/skill.

I can be left in a museum for a day, and be very happy.
I am the only one in my family who is like this. Everyone else wants to get through the museum as fast as possible; to go to something that is fun. :lol: I think everyone at the big view, sincerely wants to learn, so commit ourselves to learning, and get pleasure from it.

Scameter, I think your observation is correct, but the conclusion is wrong. What you said would be in line with what liquidharmony said, about coming to a stage of thinking when we think we know all that is important and turn to drugs, or excessive shopping, or excessive eating, or other addictions. I think our nation has an addiction problem, because the pursuit of happiness is not maturing to the kinds of commitment essential to individual and social happiness.

AlphaAurigae, makes a good point, "I've never heard of the verb attaining the object". We get addicted because the happiness is the result of the pursuit, not the end product of the pursuit. To learn every time we go surfing, means the learning is fun, but once one feels she/he has has no more to learn, that perfection has been acheive, that this pursuit will have to change to another one. By the way, liquidharmony, I very much appreciate your connection between achieving the age when should know better, being the age when addiction problems can come up. Very interesting insight. :thumbsup: I will have to bring this up at a detox center, where I do art with detoxing people.

[Starry_Canopy]

The following is an explanation of why we live the way we do by some spiritual persons:

Happiness is a property/ characteristic of pure being.

We are unable to experience happiness most of the time because our senses feel deprived of gratifications that they have become used to. This raises a tension/ craving in us for those gratifications and while these tensions exist, we are unable to purely be/ just be.

We are craving for an ice-cream. When we satisfy the craving, we become tension-free for a brief moment and can just, purely, be. For that brief moment, we are happy as happiness is a property of pure being. But, again, some other tension/ want of something overtakes us. When that craving is also satisfied, we are momentarily once more happy. But then another one takes its place.... and so on, ad infinitum. We make the mistake in thinking that the ice-cream made us happy or that other gratification made us happy. Actually, getting them only removed the tension that prevented us from purely being and experiencing the happiness that is its characteristic.

The pattern of gratifications we crave for depends upon our pre-dispositions, which depend upon our 'karmic impressions'. If these are eliminated, we could continue doing everything without being 'impelled' to do them or having tensions by not getting to do them. In that state, we would be purely existing all the time and happy all the time.

In this view, a pursuit of happiness would be most eficiently served by getting rid of the causes of tensions that prevent us from being purely ourselves and happy.

[scameter]

The pursuit of knowledge can bring happiness. A child can sit for hours and be perfectly content tasting different colored crayons. knowledge doesn't only come in the form of books. I would consider going surfing to be knowledgeable, many would disagree, but I am learning every time I go. Some people when they reach a certain age, feel they know everything there is to know. Its usually around this same age when emotional problems or substance abuse takes the place of discovery. Knowledge may not always bring happiness, but an idle mind surely never will.

I think so too, it definitely can. However, it is not the only thing that can, and the road to happiness is not only through knowledge. It is through what is enjoyed. The reason a child who is thinking and gaining knowledge seems content is because they are enjoying it; once they stop enjoying it, usually out of boredom, they move on to something else, something not necessarily specifically about knowledge.

Scameter, I think your observation is correct, but the conclusion is wrong. What you said would be in line with what liquidharmony said, about coming to a stage of thinking when we think we know all that is important and turn to drugs, or excessive shopping, or excessive eating, or other addictions. I think our nation has an addiction problem, because the pursuit of happiness is not maturing to the kinds of commitment essential to individual and social happiness.

You're right, from a larger view. But from a more specific view, happiness can be gained through many things, even only temporarily, one of which is satisfying addiction. It's not necessarily good to get happiness from addiction, but it is possible. You are speaking from more of an ethical/sociological standpoint.

[Michael]

It's not necessarily good to get happiness from addiction, but it is possible. You are speaking from more of an ethical/sociological standpoint.

The human awareness is never actually deluded It is always aware. It knows that it can get pleasure from addiction, but never happiness and this would apply even in the pre-addictive state.

That fact is that, contrary to much I've apparently being saying, we always know, but the true human tragedy is that we can't comprehend or communicate that which we know.

[scameter]

The human awareness is never actually deluded It is always aware. It knows that it can get pleasure from addiction, but never happiness and this would apply even in the pre-addictive state.

I disagree. Even if human awareness if never actually deluded, it can be clouded to the vision of the one aware, by things such as belief, emotion and passion. This can thus influence the choice of said individual, and so, if an individual feels pleasure and they enjoy it, and it makes them feel happy even if only temporarily, during that moment they believe pleasure can create happiness, and become addicted to the pleasure, trying to sustain it even in futility, being blinded to the truth by their emotion and subsequent belief.

[Thomas Knierim]

My take on it:

Happiness is joy. Happiness is pleasure. Happiness is love. Happiness is being carefree. Happiness is an inner state of well-being.

The Dalai Lama's words:

"I believe that the very purpose of our life is to seek happiness. That is clear. Whether one believes in religion or not, whether one believes in this religion or that religion, we are all seeking something better in life. So, I think, the very motion of our life is towards happiness..."

Again, my take on it:

I think that happiness is the result of a trained mind. The mind needs to be able to distinguish between truth and illusion, good and bad, wholesome and unwholesome, in order to maintain happiness. This requires trust, effort, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom.

Now, this sounds as if happiness is rather painful to come by, and partly this is true because it often requires some un-conditioning , but ultimately happiness is the natural state, a state of psychological homeostasis if you want.

Cheers, Thomas

[______]

I disagree. Even if human awareness if never actually deluded, it can be clouded to the vision of the one aware, by things such as belief, emotion and passion. This can thus influence the choice of said individual, and so, if an individual feels pleasure and they enjoy it, and it makes them feel happy even if only temporarily, during that moment they believe pleasure can create happiness, and become addicted to the pleasure, trying to sustain it even in futility, being blinded to the truth by their emotion and subsequent belief.
Couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbsup: And I was about to try! :lol:

[scameter]

I agree with the Dalai Lama there Thomas, but I think you are speaking more of bliss or entire happiness, and not just happiness it's self even in small amounts. One doesn't have to "distinguish between truth and illusion, good and bad, wholesome and unwholesome, in order to maintain happiness. This requires trust, effort, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom" to have happiness. Bliss perhaps, and entire happiness, but not happiness.

[bito]

Happiness is a taste of bliss.

:delicious:

[Michael]

[QUOTE]if an individual feels pleasure and they enjoy it, and it makes them feel happy even if only temporarily, during that moment they believe pleasure can create happiness, and become addicted to the pleasure, trying to sustain it even in futility, being blinded to the truth by their emotion and subsequent belief.


While they may be addicted they are also aware. And that is the subject of most, if not all posts on this site - we are trying to find answers to the awareness we have. Our problem is, the awareness of what and what is it that is aware when our behaviour is so often contrary to our awareness(which is not necessarily our professed belief or actions) ?

I agree with Thomas until it comes to the 'well trained mind' which may assist or not. I suspect he was closer to it when relating karma to the psychological.

[scameter]

While they may be addicted they are also aware.

You act as if addiction can be without awareness that one is addicted. Of course addicts know they are addicted; those chose to be.

[liquidharmony]

Of course addicts know they are addicted; those chose to be.


Dont be so sure of this. unfortunately, as powerful as the mind is, it can be fooled easily when tampered with. granted it is a choice, sometimes the addiction almost becomes the personality. In which case the addict is unaware of their given situation. sad but true

[Michael]

You act as if addiction can be without awareness that one is addicted.

On the contrary. My point was that addicts are aware. Also, there is a presumption that addicts get addicted for the pleasure, wheras in fact the vast majority of addicts become addicted in attempting to blot out their inner pain.

We shouldn't judge addicts too quickly - there are all kinds of addictions. One which might not spring to mind too readliy is the over-use of computers where repetitive activety is involved - games etc.
This is very similiar to the pacing activety of lions in captivety. It is called displacement activety and animals and humans both use it because it releases endomorphnes into the system(these act on the system in a way that very similair to heroin). But any repetitive activety will do - pumping iron, excessive training. One scientist who was working in this area (hi Harvey Milkman, wherever you are)
maintained that religion was an addictive activety - repetative praying, chanting, telling beads.

We all have out little addictions.

[______]

We shouldn't judge addicts too quickly - there are all kinds of addictions. One which might not spring to mind too readliy is the over-use of computers where repetitive activety is involved - games etc.
That's me!
...religion was an addictive activety - repetative praying, chanting, telling beads.
Even meditation can be addictive!

[liquidharmony]

HappInessss is a warm, yes it is, Gu-a-un!

Good point AlphaAurigae. I would say I have become addicted to thebigview. which brings my next point, where can I go for help? :knockout:

[namtso]

Good point AlphaAurigae. I would say I have become addicted to thebigview. which brings my next point, where can I go for help? - liquidharmony
My two cents worth, a hiking trail, my preference would be in the Redwoods or in a pine forest. Do they have pine forests in Florida? Otherwise I'd say go out for a surf session.

[scameter]

Dont be so sure of this. unfortunately, as powerful as the mind is, it can be fooled easily when tampered with. granted it is a choice, sometimes the addiction almost becomes the personality. In which case the addict is unaware of their given situation. sad but true

They still choose to become addicted, as you said.

On the contrary. My point was that addicts are aware. Also, there is a presumption that addicts get addicted for the pleasure, wheras in fact the vast majority of addicts become addicted in attempting to blot out their inner pain.

By pleasure.

We shouldn't judge addicts too quickly - there are all kinds of addictions.

I judge addicts who choose it, such as alchoholics and drug addicts. An addiction such as the addiction to the pleasure formed by satisfying compulsions from obsessions in OCD is not chosen, for instance, and so I do not judge it.

religion was an addictive activety - repetative praying, chanting, telling beads.

If that is true, then apart of addiction is believe that the thing being done is good and meaningful, which is not always true of addictions. For instance, drug addicts to it to gain pleasure (whether to blot out their pain or not), and many who do drugs realize it is bad, but are addicted to the pleasure. I am not ruling out religion being addictive; I'm simply making an observation.

where can I go for help?

Learn that this addiction isn't harmful; and if it is, don't pay for your internet anymore. :D