Ego Death

[spiritual_emergency]

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The place where time melts...

http://thefifthbody.homestead.com/persistence.gif

Salvador Dali - The Persistence of Memory


... once we have abandoned the luminous state of arising and passing, we open to a profound cycle of dissolution, death, and rebirth ... In this stage, nothing around us seems solid or trustworthy.* On all levels, our consciousness becomes attuned to endings and death.* We notice the end of conversations, of music, of encounters, of days, of sensations in the body on a powerful cellular level.* We sense the dissolution of life moment to moment.* Now the dark night deepens.* As our outer and inner worlds dissolve, we lose our sense of reference.* There arises a great sense of unease and fear, leading students into a realm of fear and terror.* "Where is there any security?* Wherever I look, things are dissolving."** In these stages we can experience this dissolution and dying within our own body. We may look down and see pieces of our own body seeming to melt away and decay, as if we were a corpse. As the realm of terror deepens, periods of paranoia may arise. In this stage, wherever we look, we become fearful of danger...

Source: Forms of Spiritual Emergency (http://www.nor.com.au/community/spiritualemergence/page4.html)


... when the soul begins to see the limitation of structure and experiences herself as presence, the structure begins to reveal its nature as a mental construct characterized by past conditioning, ideas, memories, etc. The soul begins to experience an inner emptiness, a meaninglessness, a dread of falling apart, and terror of death and annihilation. These experiences of falling apart or being annihilated actually come to pass as the structures dissolve. The soul experiences disintegration and dissolution, disorientation, and a loss of identity; she feels lost and despondent. These existential crises are actually elements of some stages of working through ego structures that then lead to deeper realizations of true nature, moving to timelessness and formlessness.

Source: Ego Death (http://www.ahalmaas.com/glossary/e/ego_death.htm)


PERRY:* The overall experience is described as falling into a kind of abyss of isolation. This comes about because there is such a discrepancy between the subjective inner world that one has been swept into, and the mundane everyday world outside. There seems to be a total gulf between these two.

O'C: So it starts with a feeling of isolation...

PERRY: Yes. Now the symbolic expression of this is falling into a death - not only a death state, but also a death space - the "afterlife," the "realm of the ancestors," the "land of the dead," the "spirit world."* The common experience here is for the person to look about and think that half the people around him are dead too. While in this condition, it's very hard for one to tell if one is really alive or not.

Source: The Inner Apocalypse (http://www.global-vision.org/interview/perry.html)

My definition of "the ego" is that it is comprised of what we believe to be true about ourselves, others, the world, and our mutual place in it. These beliefs that we hold to be true form the structure of "the ego". The goal of most spiritual paths is to slowly erode this egoic structure into nothingness through the process of examination, meditation, contemplation, etc. Ideally, this occurs slowly over a long period of time, thereby producing spiritual emergence. When it occurs very rapidly it produces a crisis of spiritual emergency. This is my experience.

I'm interested in hearing from any others who may have gone through an experience of "ego death" or "ego collapse". How did you interpret and integrate your experience? What was most helpful to you and why? What was not helpful and why? I'm also interested in any Buddhist resources as related to "The Higher Samadhis". I've searched on the net for more information but haven't been able to find much. Perhaps it can be found in a book or some website that I haven't happened to stumble across yet.


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[...]

..i agree with your definition of ego, but can't agree on the actually dying of ego. There were a few experiences that showed the limited aspects of ego, and the vastness of consciousness that lies beyond it [or so it seemed], but it were those experiences that showed how ego can't die but will renew itself, and re-invent itself, constantly. Without ego there is no coherent functioning. Ego is needed, as a structure, to survive reality. What the supposed ego-death experience can show us is that we exist as ego, but that it's temporary essence is essentially zero [comprised of nothing substantial]. Altough such experiences do not actually culminate in the [permanent] dissolution of ego, they do free us from the chains that tie us to emotion and other attachments...

..the important questions regarding this subject is: why should something that is essentially an illusion disappear, and who is desiring this?

..a number of people have been beneficial, and [perhaps] i've sought them out on purpose, but what i can give you as advice is that you should trust life to bring you those [experiences] on your path that will facilitate your expectations. Basically, it is all about intent but not all about action. If you can keep in mind that reality is a roller-coaster, and you're in the backseat enjoying the ride for all it's worth, it'll happen. Whatever that might be...

[spiritual_emergency]

.

..i agree with your definition of ego, but can't agree on the actually dying of ego. There were a few experiences that showed the limited aspects of ego, and the vastness of consciousness that lies beyond it [or so it seemed], but it were those experiences that showed how ego can't die but will renew itself, and re-invent itself, constantly.

Yes, I agree. What does seem to "die" is one's experience of how they self-identified. We believed certain things to be true about ourselves and our worldview. Those beliefs can no longer stand in the aftermath of such an experience.

Without ego there is no coherent functioning. Ego is needed, as a structure, to survive reality.

I'm also in agreement. "Egolessness" is not the goal. An ego is required to function in *this* reality. The function of ego changes however; it becomes an organizing principle as opposed to the totality of what we believed ourselves to be.

..the important questions regarding this subject is: why should something that is essentially an illusion disappear, and who is desiring this?

An example I'm playing with...- A man visits Italy. Does that make him an Italian?

- A man lives in Italy? Does that make him Italy?The truth of the matter is there is no "Italy". "Italy" is nothing but an idea of a boundary that begins *here* encompasses *this* and ends *there* at a clearly established border. Like "Italy," the border crossing is also an illusion -- only an idea. It does not exist except as a crossbeam in the structure of what you/I/we believe to be true. However... there is a man and there is a ground upon which he stands. Sometimes there's just a ground.

..a number of people have been beneficial, and [perhaps] i've sought them out on purpose, but what i can give you as advice is that you should trust life to bring you those [experiences] on your path that will facilitate your expectations. Basically, it is all about intent but not all about action. If you can keep in mind that reality is a roller-coaster, and you're in the backseat enjoying the ride for all it's worth, it'll happen. Whatever that might be...

Yes. Thank you for your comments. There's some good substance there to digest.


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[...]

..hi,

Those beliefs can no longer stand in the aftermath of such an experience.

..true, and despite the continued existence of other beliefs, one knows now that these beliefs too are fickle and would not stand up against, dare i say, truth...

The function of ego changes however; it becomes an organizing principle as opposed to the totality of what we believed we ourselves to be.

..yes :)

Sometimes there's just a ground.

..from my POV, that is all there is and the circle is completed...

:)

[spiritual_emergency]

Re: The Ground of Being...

..from my POV, that is all there is and the circle is completed...

Hmmm. Nice vibe, that ground.

I'm out of things to say now. But I feel (http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=46&mforum=boxershorts) like dancing. :)


[Edited to add: I'm still interested in info on the "Higher Samadhis" (as related to dissolution of the self) if anyone has a link or book recommendation.]

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[spiritual_emergency]

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psyche, could you clarify what you mean by your statement above. I'm not certain I understand what you mean.

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[scameter]

I dislike the effect the ego often has on events by human choice, but the ego is also capable of compassion and other similar things. Is it worth giving it up entirely? And, how can it be truly bad if we have it naturally?

[spiritual_emergency]

I dislike the effect the ego often has on events by human choice, but the ego is also capable of compassion and other similar things. Is it worth giving it up entirely? And, how can it be truly bad if we have it naturally?

I always thought the word "ego" was a poor choice of words. I prefer the terms "self" and "Self" because it's not the ego per se that is the culprit. Imagine if you will, a playground apparatus built out of copper tubing. We look at the totalitity of that structure and call it "the ego" but the structure itself is necessary and has purpose. What's faulty are the building materials and the foundation "the structure called ego" has been built upon. I'll borrow on some words here...

"True sanity entails in one way or another the dissolution of the normal ego, that false self competently adjusted to our alienated social reality... and through this death a rebirth and the eventual re-establishment of a new kind of ego-functioning, the ego now being the servant of the divine, no longer its betrayer."

– R.D.Laing


... You get the idea of who you are from others.

It is not a direct experience.

It is from others that you get the idea of who you are. They shape your center.* This center is false, because you carry your real center.* That is nobody's business.* Nobody shapes it.

You come with it.

You are born with it.

So you have two centers.* One center you come with, which is given by existence itself.* That is the self. And the other center, which is created by the society, is the ego. It is a false thing - and it is a very great trick. Through the ego the society is controlling you. You have to behave in a certain way, because only then does the society appreciate you. You have to walk in a certain way; you have to laugh in a certain way; you have to follow certain manners, a morality, a code. Only then will the society appreciate you, and if it doesn't, you ego will be shaken. And when the ego is shaken, you don't know where you are, who you are.

The others have given you the idea.

That idea is the ego.

Try to understand it as deeply as possible, because this has to be thrown. And unless you throw it you will never be able to attain to the self. Because you are addicted to the center, you cannot move, and you cannot look at the self.

And remember, there is going to be an interim period, an interval, when the ego will be shattered, when you will not know who you are, when you will not know where you are going, when all boundaries will melt.

You will simply be confused, a chaos.

Because of this chaos, you are afraid to lose the ego. But it has to be so. One has to pass through the chaos before one attains to the real center.

Source: Ego - The False Self (http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm)

There are a number of paths that assist in dismantling the belief structures that have built the ego of the little self; some of them polish it away slowly, some do so very rapidly. We're all going to get what we get so there's no point in wishing it were otherwise. Ultimately however, the ego -- the structure of what one believes to be true about one's self, others, the world and our mutual place in it -- must be rebuilt on new ground. I suspect that if the process is a slow and steady one, a great deal of that re-construction takes place along the way. If the process is especially rapid, both the deconstruction and the reconstruction aspects are going to be a bit more dramatic. Either way, it's not "The End" it's simply "A New Beginning".

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[spiritual_emergency]

it was a poetic moment ...

Thanks for explaining. :)

[scameter]

I always thought the word "ego" was a poor choice of words. I prefer the terms "self" and "Self" because it's not the ego per se that is the culprit. Imagine if you will, a playground apparatus built out of copper tubing. We look at the totalitity of that structure and call it "the ego" but the structure itself is necessary and has purpose. What's faulty are the building materials and the foundation "the structure called ego" has been built upon. I'll borrow on some words here...

Actually, I personally think that you are right about it actually being the self, but I think the faulty aspect of the self is in the necessity of free will's having two halves, that being positive and negative, or aggressive and passive if you will. To which of these is followed is the choice of the individual, nor are either of these always right or wrong necessarily. Without the self, we would not be capable of wrong choices, but we would also not be capable of right choices; we would be animals merely doing whatever is necessary to survive and having no thoughts otherwise, and because we are obviously not this, the self has worth.

Ultimately however, the ego -- the structure of what one believes to be true about one's self, others, the world and our mutual place in it -- must be rebuilt on new ground. I suspect that if the process is a slow and steady one, a great deal of that re-construction takes place along the way. If the process is especially rapid, both the deconstruction and the reconstruction aspects are going to be a bit more dramatic. Either way, it's not "The End" it's simply "A New Beginning".

Hmm... a very interesting way of putting it my friend, and I do partially agree. I think that not everything about the original state of the ego, or the state of the ego at any particular time, should be forgotten, as that would dissolve the individual; but, if it is changed, gradually as you say, and by the correct choice and guidence of the self and it's perception, then it can be made well. :)

[spiritual_emergency]

Hmm... a very interesting way of putting it my friend, and I do partially agree. I think that not everything about the original state of the ego, or the state of the ego at any particular time, should be forgotten, as that would dissolve the individual; but, if it is changed, gradually as you say, and by the correct choice and guidence of the self and it's perception, then it can be made well.

I think it's important to clarify the labels that are applied. Often what means one thing to "me" might mean something different to "you". I have been learning a great deal about labels over the past few years. In the aftermath of my experience, two labels were applied to that experience: one was "enlightened". Later, the other was "schizophrenic". The irony is, I didn't know what those labels meant. Having spent a few years exploring them and recognizing the limitations of each, I've discarded both. I am neither of those things.

More than anything, I think my experience taught me about the cost of Being human. Yes, these kind of experiences have profound spiritual meaning and purpose. But we are still human beings having them. And other human beings, like us, are having them too. They are not so uncommon after all. We all have the ability to touch the face of god.



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[spiritual_emergency]

I felt compelled to place this here...

"I am black but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem."

- The Song of Songs (1:5)


http://thefifthbody.homestead.com/clancy_KaliAtPlay.jpg

"Is Kali, my Divine Mother, of a black complexion?
She appears black because She is viewed from a distance;
but when intimately known She is no longer so.
The sky appears blue at a distance, but look at it close by
and you will find that it has no colour.
The water of the ocean looks blue at a distance,
but when you go near and take it in your hand,
you find that it is colourless."

... Ramakrishna Paramhansa (1836-86)

Kali's four arms represent the complete circle of creation and destruction, which is contained within her. She represents the inherent creative and destructive rhythms of the cosmos. Her right hands, making the mudras of "fear not" and conferring boons, represent the creative aspect of Kali, while the left hands, holding a bloodied sword and a severed head represent her destructive aspect. The bloodied sword and severed head symbolize the destruction of ignorance and the dawning of knowledge. The sword is the sword of knowledge, that cuts the knots of ignorance and destroys false consciousness (the severed head). Kali opens the gates of freedom with this sword, having cut the eight bonds that bind human beings. Finally her three eyes represent the sun, moon, and fire, with which she is able to observe the three modes of time: past, present and future. This attribute is also the origin of the name Kali, which is the feminine form of 'Kala', the Sanskrit term for Time.

Source: Kali - The Divine Mother (http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/kali/)

I considered starting a new thread on "emptiness" but decided this fits better here. Kali is a metaphor for the place where time melts. Other cultures likely have other symbols and metaphors, but that's the one that resonates for me. Beyond Kali's slashing sword is perfect stillness. Time does not exist there. That's the place of Emptiness. From this place of Nothingness, Everything is born. That's the Luminosity.

In the Kaballah, they call her Binah (http://ifdawn.com/esa/binah.htm). Sufis call her Layla (http://www.penkatali.org/feminine.html). To the Egyptians she is Isis (http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2002/carl-teichrib/5isis.htm). Within a framework of Christianty she is The Black Madonna (http://alignment2012.com/page9c.html). In Tibetan scripture she is Black Tara (http://www.horusmaat.com/silverstar/SILVERSTAR2-PG18.htm). To the Gnostics and philosophers, she is Sophia (http://www.badger.org/thebible/solomon.htm).


See also:
Strange Days ~ Beautiful Midnight (http://thefifthbody.homestead.com/StrangeDays_BeautifulMidnight.html)
Dancing In the Flames: The Dark Goddess in the Transformation of Consciousness (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1570623139/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-0114688-1387144)
The Unmanifest Absolute (http://www.kheper.net/integral/unmanifest_absolute.html)
The Black Light (http://www.sophiajournal.org/archives2/cheetham.html)
The Black Latifa (http://www.ahalmaas.com/glossary/b/black_latifa.htm)
Night Enfolds Her Cloak of Holes (http://www.songsouponsea.com/Promenade/wildernessH.html)
The Return of Lilith (http://www.penkatali.org/lilith.html)


[Edited for links.]


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[scameter]

I think it's important to clarify the labels that are applied. Often what means one thing to "me" might mean something different to "you". I have been learning a great deal about labels over the past few years. In the aftermath of my experience, two labels were applied to that experience: one was "enlightened". Later, the other was "schizophrenic". The irony is, I didn't know what those labels meant. Having spent a few years exploring them and recognizing the limitations of each, I've discarded both. I am neither of those things.

Well, I think an important thing about labels is that they derive from a concept that is invented by the human mind; thus, what the label is meant to represent is within the human consciousness, and I think it is within every consciousness, even if some people call themselves it, while others don't. For instance, I think enlightened is a label that everyone has, or at least is capable of, even if they do not label themselves as it. I think that we are all capable of every label; it is merely our choice that determines which we give to ourselves knowingly, and that we express.

More than anything, I think my experience taught me about the cost of Being human. Yes, these kind of experiences have profound spiritual meaning and purpose. But we are still human beings having them. And other human beings, like us, are having them too. They are not so uncommon after all. We all have the ability to touch the face of god.

Indeed. :) Oddly, I hadn't read this second paragraph in your post before I replied to the first, but what you said in your second one is quite similar to my reply to the first. :D

I considered starting a new thread on "emptiness" but decided this fits better here. Kali is a metaphor for the place where time melts. Other cultures likely have other symbols and metaphors, but that's the one that resonates for me. Beyond Kali's slashing sword is perfect stillness. Time does not exist there. That's the place of Emptiness. From this place of Nothingness, Everything is born. That's the Luminosity.

And an interesting parallel with the scientific theory of the Big Bang... But, I think an interesting thing about this my friend, among other things of course, is that Kali is where time melts, which I think also means that Kali is where time is. To me, time is happening, occuring, change; and, Kali is creation and destruction, or perhaps birth and death, and I find it interesting that she is time, and that time is naught but a cycle of creation/birth and destruction/death. I think this example is a very good one for an investigation of what time is. :) Thank you for putting this here.

[spiritual_emergency]

...And an interesting parallel with the scientific theory of the Big Bang...


"The initial disordered state that I am describing contains two distinct elements. The first is an experience of dying or of having already died, which symbolizes a dissolution of the accustomed self. The second element, closely related to the first, is a vision of the death of the world. In an acute psychosis individuals undergo a profound reorganization of the self, effected by a thoroughgoing reintegration through utter disintegration. Life cannot be repaired, it can only be re-created by returning to the sources. And the 'source of sources' is the prodigious outpouring of energy, life and the fecundity that occured at the Creation of the World."


John Weir Perry
Trials of the Visionary Mind (http://www.sunypress.edu/details.asp?id=53985)

See also:
The Inner Apocalypse (http://www.global-vision.org/dream/dreamint.html)
The Relevance of Visionary Experience to Culture (http://www.annebaring.com/anbar12_lect01_relevance.htm)




[Edited for links.]
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[spiritual_emergency]

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http://www.udayton.edu/mary/images/olczest.jpg

I ... saw your face
Elegant and tired
Cut up from the chase
Still, I so admired

Bloodshot, your smile
Delicate and wild
Well, give me she-wolf style
Rip right through me

Silverette are the jets of a lifetime
Go and get her, I’ve got her on my mind
Nothing better, the feeling is so fine
Simply put, I saw your love stream flow

Come on baby, ’cause there’s no name for
Give it up, and I got what I came for
Universally speaking, I
Take you back, and you make me nervous
Nothing better than love and service
Universally speaking, I
Win in the long run

I ... saw your crime
Dying to get high
Two of a kind
Beats all hands tonight

Silverette are the jets of a lifetime
Go and get her, I’ve got her on my mind
Nothing better, the making is so fine
Simply put ~ I saw your love stream flow
Simply put ~ I saw your love stream flow
Simply put ~ I saw your love stream flow

Let's go!


Red Hot Chili Peppers (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009MDDQ/qid=1136596682/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-0114688-1387144?s=music&v=glance&n=5174)


See also:
Image Source: Our Lady of Czestochowa (http://campus.udayton.edu/mary//meditations/olczest.html)
Dark Mater (http://www.greenspirit.org.uk/resources/DarkMother.htm)
The Self-Aware Universe (http://twm.co.nz/goswam1.htm)
Black Hole (http://www.iol.ie/~peter/trans9.htm)




[Edited for links.]
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[spiritual_emergency]

The tao that can be described
is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be spoken
is not the eternal Name.

The nameless is the boundary of Heaven and Earth.
The named is the mother of creation.

Freed from desire, you can see the hidden mystery.
By having desire, you can only see what is visibly real.

Yet mystery and reality
emerge from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness born from darkness.
The beginning of all understanding.


Source: The Tao Te Ching (http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/tao/TaoTeChing.html)


The following (brief) list of resources may be helpful to those individuals going through a form of spiritual emergency in this culture. Forms of Spiritual Emergency (http://www.nor.com.au/community/spiritualemergence/page4.html)
Causes of Spiritual Emergency (http://www.nor.com.au/community/spiritualemergence/page13.html)
Spiritual Emergence Service (http://www.spiritualemergence.net/pages/related.html)
The Stormy Search for the Self (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087477649X/sr=8-1/qid=1143399532/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-6897061-2079165?%5Fencoding=UTF8)
Spiritual Emergency (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0874775388/qid=1143399593/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-6897061-2079165?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)


[Edited for links.]
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[scameter]

Quite interesting my friend. I think everyone in modern, at least modern Western, society could benefit from lessons on how to get through a spiritual emergency. :)

[spiritual_emergency]

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Quite interesting my friend. I think everyone in modern, at least modern Western, society could benefit from lessons on how to get through a spiritual emergency.

In a separate thread, someone had raised the issue of materialism and there was talk of how we can derive our sense of self from possessions and social status. But materialism goes further than that. We see it also in the abject denial of the spiritual and the insistence that rationalism must prevail. Western culture in particular denies the irrational and historically has punished those who have danced to a music that they, themselves, cannot hear: this is your Buddha... on clozapine. In this culture, it is beneficial for those on a spiritual path to be aware of the concept of spiritual emergency.

And now, because I'm fast running out of things to say, here's a favorite passage from my ever expanding book collection. I hope you (and others) enjoy it as much as I have...



When asked about the path of practice, Buddha explained that there are four ways for spiritual life to unfold.* The first way is quickly and with pleasure.* In this, opening and letting go come naturally, like an easy birth, accompanied by joy and rapture.* The second way is quickly but painfully.* On this path we might face a near-death experience, an accident, or the unbearable loss of someone we hold dear.* This path passes through a flaming gate to teach us about letting go.* The third form of spiritual progress is gradual and accompanied with pleasure.* In this way, opening and letting go happen over a period of years, predominantly with ease and delight.* The fourth and most common path is also slow and gradual, but takes place predominantly through suffering.* Difficulty and struggle are a recurrent theme, and through them we gradually learn to awaken.

In this matter we do not get to choose.* Our unfolding is a reflection of the pattern of our lives, which are sometimes described as "our fate" or "our karma".* No matter the apparent speed, we are simply asked to give ourselves to the process.* It is like being in a small rowboat on the ocean.* We row, but there is also a larger current; we may continually head east, but cannot know how far we have gone.* The question of distance and time however, is one that arises only at the beginning. It does not matter how far we think we have gone.* It is our willingness to open radically and repeatedly, just now that characterizes this journey.

It is easy to get caught in the notion that there is a goal, a state, a special place to reach in spiritual life.* Accounts of extraordinary experiences can create ideas of how our own lives should be, and lead us to compare ourselves with others.* In Tibet one famous yogi had lived for years practicing ardently in a mountain hut supported by the villagers below.* Then one festival day he heard that all his supporters were going to visit him.* The yogi carefully swept his hut, polished the offering bowls on the alter, made a special offering, and cleaned his robes.* Then he sat back and waited but an unease came over him.* Who was he trying to be?* Finally he got up, scooped up several handfuls of dirt, and threw them back onto the alter.* Those handfuls of dirt were said to be his highest spiritual offering.

[...]

The ultimate end of the koans might be seen in the following story, a bit of modern Zen humor regarding a disciple who sent his master faithful accounts of his spiritual progress.* In the first month, the student wrote, "I feel an expansion of consciousness and experience oneness with the universe."* The master glanced at the note and threw it away.*

The following month, this is what the student had to say: "I finally discovered that the Divine is present in all things."* The master seemed disappointed.

In his third letter the disciple enthusiastically explained,* "The mystery of the One and the many has been revealed to my wondering gaze."* The master yawned.*

The next letter said, "No one is born, no one lives, no one dies, for the self is not."* The master threw up his hands in despair.

After that a month passed by, then two, then five, then a whole year.* The master thought it was time to remind his disciple of his duty to keep him informed of his spiritual progress.* The disciple wrote back, "I am simply living my life."*

When the master read that he cried, "Thank God.* He's got it at last."


Jack Kornfield
After the Ecstasy, the Laundry (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553378295/qid=1045331161/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/002-2548607-8456066?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)



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[spiritual_emergency]

Thank you, India
Thank you, Terror
Thank you, Disillusionment
Thank you, Frailty
Thank you, Consequence
Thank you, thank you, Silence

the moment I let go of it, was
the moment I got more than I could handle
the moment I jumped off of it, was
the moment I touched down

Thank you, India
Thank you, Providence
Thank you, Disillusionment
Thank you, Nothingness
Thank you, Clarity
Thank you, thank you ... Silence

Alanis Morrisette




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[spiritual_emergency]

thought you had
all the answers, to
rest your heart upon
but something happens ...*
don't see it coming -- now
you can't stop yourself

Now, you're out there
~ swimming
In the deep
In the deep


Life keeps tumbling
your heart in circles
'til you ... let go
'til you shed your pride
and you climb to Heaven
and you throw your self off

Now, you're out there
~ spinning
In the deep
In the deep

And the Silence
of your secrets will
raise a worried hand
but you can't pin yourself
back together to who
you thought you were --

Now, you're out there
~ living
In the deep
In the deep

Now, you're out there spinning...
Now, you're out there swimming...

In The Deep


~ if you want to be given everything ... give everything up ~

Source: Bird York (http://www.birdyork.com/index_content.html)

See also:
Spirituality & Trauma (http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/T-088.html)
The Spirit of Tonglen (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/4/story_423_1.html)
The Practice of Tonglen (http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen1.php)

[bito]

and as I'm swimming
in the deep of my sleep
in the wide of my wake
water loving, water kissing
darkness wombing, darkness weeping
"undo my dreaming
undo my dreaming!"
and then, oh sweet ocean
no more swimming
no more swimming
sky singing only
I am me
I am thee

[namtso]

Thank you, India
Thank you, Terror
Thank you, Disillusionment
Thank you, Frailty
Thank you, Consequence
Thank you, thank you, Silence

the moment I let go of it, was
the moment I got more than I could handle
the moment I jumped off of it, was
the moment I touched down

Thank you, India
Thank you, Providence
Thank you, Disillusionment
Thank you, Nothingness
Thank you, Clarity
Thank you, thank you ... Silence

Alanis Morrisette

Yes

This is my all time favorite song of Alanis'. And is in itself a great resource for further discussion of self, ego, personality, perception of reality, social interaction .....

I highly recommend to anyone who truly likes this song more than her others, to let her know on her web site. This is purely for selfish reasons, I want to hear more songs like this from her!

[spiritual_emergency]

I don't know what will become of this thread -- I started it hoping to find more information on "the higher samaddis" but I haven't yet found that information. Meantime, I came across the following during a batch of web surfing last night and thought it was most interesting. To date, I have looked at my experience through the lens of shamanism, mysticism, gnosticism, alchemy and others. Of late, I seem to be applying the eye of buddhism to it so maybe this thread will become a resource for Buddhists who go through a "spiritual emergency".

It's worth noting that state begins with the belief that you are dead/have died. In an earlier conversation with Jampa [Mandala Thread] he/she made mention of bardo states. This fits too...


The Tibetan Book of the Dead

The Tibetan Book of the Dead is pragmatically and existentially directed toward the "dead" who are still living, and not especially toward those who are clinically dead. To reveal this less obvious meaning, we need to examine more closely some of the key features of the manifest meaning, for these indicate that both the existence of gods and the existence of an after-death bardo realm are questionable. With respect to the reality of the gods and demons that are experienced in the after-death state, we have noted that the text informs the disembodied consciousness that these deities have no substantial reality of their own. Indeed, this is the central illuminating principle of the text. Two memorable excerpts are as follows:

Through the instruction of his guru he will recognize them [the visionary deities] as his own projections, the play of the mind, and he will be liberated. It is just like seeing a stuffed lion, for instance: he feels very frightened if he does not know that it is really only a stuffed lion, but if someone shows him what it is he is astonished and no longer afraid. So here too he feels terrified and bewildered when the blood-drinking deities appear with their huge bodies and thick limbs, filling the whole of space, but as soon as he is shown he recognises them as his own projections or as yidams; the luminosity that arises later, mother and son, merge together, and, like meeting a man he used to know very well, the self-liberating luminosity of his own mind spontaneously arises before him.

[W]hatever you see, however terrifying it is, recognise it as your own projection; recognise it as the luminosity, the natural radiance of your own mind.

These excerpts confirm that the gods and demons experienced in the after-death state, although they appear with a reality equal to the material objects in the world of the living, are indeed believed to be nothing more than manifestations of the dead person's own psychological states. They are merely symbolic forms that express conditions of either psychological liberation or psychological bondage and suffering. This suggests that the path to enlightenment in no way depends upon favors or obstructions issued from the realm of the gods and demons that populate the after-death state; the path depends upon initially recognizing the images of the gods as manifestations of oneself in various possible and actual forms. Self-recognition alone initiates the path to more satisfactory levels of consciousness.

Source: The Therapeutic Psychology of the Tibetan Book of the Dead (http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/robert.htm)

[spiritual_emergency]

Thanks for the pointer, pysche. I found two versions online: The Gospels of Ramakrishna (http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/)

[locomotive]

When I was 8 I looked into the mirror and thought:" am I ugly?". I then thought that I am not the face so who am I..The person that sees, who is he? I couldn't understand. A thought came to me. I investigated the thought: "Did I create the thought?" "yes I did", I said to my self remembering the previous action I had done. Then at a second glance I realized that that previous action had nothing to do with the thought than that it fanished the moment the thought came. "So there is no self..?" An emptyness fell over me and I didn't like it. I Thought that there must be something wrong with my thinking. I wondered if another person had the same consciousness as me. Does he see and feel like me? I don't know. All I know is what I see and feel. Do things exist outside of me(what I experience)? All of this felt way over my head and so I went to watch tv.

[______]

:lol: You were quite the 8 year old! When I was 8 I never would have thought in this way. All I thought about was getting to the next level in a video game.

[namtso]

When I was 8 I looked into the mirror and thought:" am I ugly?". I then thought that I am not the face so who am I..The person that sees, who is he? I couldn't understand. A thought came to me. I investigated the thought: "Did I create the thought?" "yes I did", I said to my self remembering the previous action I had done. Then at a second glance I realized that that previous action had nothing to do with the thought than that it fanished the moment the thought came. "So there is no self..?" An emptyness fell over me and I didn't like it. I Thought that there must be something wrong with my thinking. I wondered if another person had the same consciousness as me. Does he see and feel like me? I don't know. All I know is what I see and feel. Do things exist outside of me(what I experience)? All of this felt way over my head and so I went to watch tv. - locomotive (Petja)

Petja? Czech and female? SFT, this may be a "girls mature faster than boys" thing? That is a deep thought for an 8 year old!

[MidnightSun]

I agree.

[locomotive]

goddamnit I typed a whole post and now it's gone. Well I am not typing it again. oh well

I am a male from uzbekistan. Live in amsterdam.
Not too deep apparently.

[namtso]

I am a male from uzbekistan. Live in amsterdam.I Googled Petja and thought it was a female name, I guess I got it wrong.
Not too deep apparently. Huh?

[locomotive]

I was saying that the deepness happened because it was not too deep for the thinking deep to happen on such a level at that time.
--------------------

lol you googled petja. You are a detective.

[sahyo]

What the supposed ego-death experience can show us is that we exist as ego



maybe
isn't
dying
notdying
you're
attempting
to
avoid,
but
no
one
to

[spiritual_emergency]

I was so pleased to find this story tucked away in some old notes. I thought I'd lost it.

================================================== ==


http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs272.ash1/19954_1366101995123_1308857523_31039180_2067459_a. jpg

Sufi literature has the greatest discussion of femininity in Islam. Sufi stories have transformed ordinary love stories into the most sublime levels of meaning. The love story of Layla and Majnun is the best-known of all. It originated as a simple love story in Arabia, but Sufi literature elaborated it into the most beautiful love story ever put into Persian poetry. It symbolizes not only the love of man and woman in Allah, but the love of man for Allah. In these poems the heroine is elevated to symbolize the Divine Reality itself. The Divine Reality is spoken of in terms of female beauty. The hero goes in quest of the Divine, which is a masculine act. In contrast to Christian mysticism, in which God is actively masculine and the devotee is passively feminine, Sufi love stories depict the Beloved as a woman who is a Presence waiting in stillness while the hero is in quest for her.

The name Laylá comes from the word layl meaning 'night'. Night represents the Unmanifest. In the Arabian desert, the night is a reality without boundaries: forms are dissolved, no sand dunes or camels or anything else visible, all is formless, nothing but darkness. This is direct symbolism of the unmanifested aspect of the Divine Nature, Allah as Unmanifest. Blackness absorbs all light, as it is above manifestation, so it symbolizes the Beyond-Being. In the poem, Layla was named for the blackness of her hair and the beauty of the night. By extension, it in fact refers to the beauty of the Divine Reality beyond this world, beyond the act of creation, and therefore the supreme goal that the Sufi seeks to reach. The name of Majnûn literally means 'crazy', but here it means someone not in an ordinary state of mind, symbolizing a person in quest of Allah. In this world in which most people forget Allah, the person who remembers Him is considered crazy. As the male figure, Majnûn symbolizes the aspect of yearning and striving, going out in quest of Layla, while she is just sitting and combing her hair. The one who undertakes the journey, longing and crying for Layla, is the soul of the Sufi.

Source: Islam and The Divine Feminine (http://www.adishakti.org/text_files/islam_and_the_divine_feminine.htm)

Music of the Hour: Eric Clapton ~ Layla (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WUdlaLWSVM&feature=related)

See also:

- The Unmanifest Absolute (http://www.kheper.net/integral/unmanifest_absolute.html)
- Schizophrenia & The Hero's Journey (http://spiritualemergency.blogspot.com/2006/01/schizophrenia-heros-journey.html)

[Gelatinous Pope]

Divine Moments of Truth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qt2WbfotkU

[spiritual_emergency]

Thanks Gelatinous Pope. I enjoyed the music and will certainly explore more of Shpongle's music.

[spiritual_emergency]

Some additional notes I've gathered over the years.

Ego consciousness arises out of the mother. Therefore, if we are going to rid ourselves of the ego, we have to return to the mother.


http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs241.ash1/16854_1354450983855_1308857523_31010590_5484089_a. jpg

Psychological Development is the progressive emergence and differentiation of the ego or consciousness from the original state of unconsciousness. It is a process which, ideally, continues throughout the lifetime of the individual. In contradistinction to physical development, there is no time at which one can say that full psychic development has been achieved. Although we may distinguish various stages of development for descriptive purposes, actually one stage merges into another in a single fluid continuum.

In the early phase, the ego has very little autonomy. It is largely in a state of identification with the objective psyche within and the external world without. It lives in the world of archetypes and makes no clear distinction between inner and outer objects. This primitive state of ego development is called, after Lévy-Bruhl, participation mystique, and is shared by both the primitive and the child. It is a state of magical participation and interpretation between the ego and its surroundings. What is ego and what is non-ego are not distinguished. Inner world and outer world are experienced as a single totality. This primitive state of participation mystique is also evident in the phenomena of mob psychology in which individual consciousness and responsibility are temporarily eclipsed by identification with a collective dynamism.

Jung made no effort to present a systematic theory of psychological development. However, some of his followers, especially Neumann, have attempted to fill in this gap. Following Neumann, the stages of psychological development can be described as follows.

The first or original state is called the uroboric stage, derived from uroborus, the circular image of the tail-eating serpent. It refers to the original totality and self-containment which is prior to the birth of consciousness. The ego exists only as a latent potentiality in a state of primary identity with the Self or objective psyche. This state is presumed to pertain during the prenatal period and early infancy.

The transition between this state and the second stage of development corresponds to the creation of the world for the individual psyche. Thus world creation myths refer to this first decisive event in psychic development - the birth of the ego out of the unconscious. The basic theme of all creation myths is separation. Out of undifferentiated wholeness one element is discriminated from another. It may be expressed as the creation of light - the separation of light from darkness, or as the separation of the world parents - the distinction between masculine and feminine, or the emergence of order out of chaos. In each case the meaning is the same, namely, the birth of consciousness, the capacity to discriminate between opposites.

The second stage of psychological development is called the matriarchal phase. Although beginning consciousness has appeared, it is as yet only dim and fitful. The nascent ego is still largely passive and dependent on its uroboric matrix which now takes on the aspect of the great mother. Masculine and feminine elements are not yet clearly differentiated so that the great mother will still be undifferentiated as to sex. To this stage belongs the image of the phallic mother incorporating both masculine and feminine components. Here, the ruling psychic entity is the great mother. The predominant concern will be to seek her nourishment and support and to avoid her destructive, devouring aspect. The father archetype or masculine principle has not yet emerged into separate existence. Mother is still all. The ego has achieved only a precarious separation and is still dependent on the unconscious, which is personified as the great mother. ...

The third stage is called the patriarchal phase. The transition is characterized by particular themes, images and actions. In an attempt to break free from the matriarchal phase, the feminine with all its attributes is rejected and depreciated. The theme of initiation rituals pertains to this period of transition. The father archetype or masculine principle emerges in full force and claims the allegiance of the individual. Tests, challenges, rules and discipline are set up in opposition to the sympathy and comfortable containment of the great mother. The incest taboo is erected prohibiting regression to the mother-bound state.

Once the transition to the patriarchal stage has been accomplished, the archetype of the great father, the masculine spirit principle, determines the values and goals of life. Consciousness, individual responsibility, self-discipline and rationality will be the prevailing values. Everything pertaining to the feminine principle will be repressed, depreciated or subordinated to masculine ends. In childhood development, the patriarchal phase will be particularly evident in the years preceding puberty.

The fourth phase is designated the integrative phase. The preceding patriarchal stage has left the individual one-sided and incomplete. The feminine principle, woman and therefore the anima and the unconscious have been repressed and neglected. Another change or transition is thus needed to redeem these neglected psychic elements.

This transition phase also has its characteristic imagery. The most typical myth is the hero fighting the dragon. In this archetypal story, a beautiful maiden is in captivity to a dragon or monster. The maiden is the anima, the precious but neglected feminine principle which has been rejected and depreciated in the previous patriarchal phase of development. The monster represents the residual uroboric state, the great mother in its destructive, devouring aspect. The anima or feminine value is still attached to this dangerous element and can be freed only by heroic action. The hero represents the necessary ego attitude that is willing to relinquish the safety of the conventional patriarchal standards and expose himself once again to the unconscious, the dangers of regression and bondage to the woman in order to redeem a lost but necessary element, the anima. If this is successful, the anima or feminine principle is raised to its proper value modifying and completing the previous one-sided patriarchal attitude.

This is a decisive step in psychological integration that amounts to a reconciliation of opposites; masculine and feminine, law and love, conscious and unconscious, spirit and nature. In individual development of the youth, this phase corresponds to the emerging capacity to relate to girls during puberty which is subsequently followed by love for a particular woman and eventually marriage.

It should be understood that although these phases of psychic development have been related to various periods in the development of the child and young man, their meaning is not confined to these external events. The end of psychological development is not reached with the event of marriage. Such external happenings are only the external manifestations of an archetypal process of development which still awaits its inner realization. Furthermore, the series of psychological stages here described can be traversed not once but many times in the course of psychic development. These stages are, so to speak, successive way stations that we return to again and again in the course of a spiral journey which takes one over the same course repeatedly but each time on a different level of conscious awareness.*

*The foregoing account of development refers particularly to masculine psychology. Although the same stages of development apply to a woman, they will be experienced in a somewhat different way. Relevant myths are those of Demeter and Persephone and Amor and Psyche. See Neumann's excellent commentary on Amor and Psyche.

Jung's major contribution to developmental psychology is his concept of individuation. The term refers to a developmental process which begins in the adult individual, usually after the age of thirty-five, and if successful leads to the discovery of the Self and the replacing of the ego by it as the personality center.

Individuation is the discovery of and the extended dialogue with the objective psyche of which the Self is the comprehensive expression. It begins with one or more decisive experiences challenging egocentricity and producing an awareness that the ego is subject to a more comprehensive psychic entity. Although the full fruits of the individuation process only appear in the second half of life, the evolving relation between the ego and the objective psyche is a continuous one from birth to death.

Source: An Outline of Analytical Psychology: http://www.capt.org/using-type/c-g-jung.htm (http://www.capt.org/using-type/c-g-jung.htm)

[taiyaki]

Ego death is a misleading term. The ego doesn't die but rather one doesn't attach to the mental patterns arising in the mind.

I view ego as a pair of shoes you wear. When I am a teacher, I wear my nice dress shoes. When I am running, I wear my tennis shoes. When I am relaxing at home, I wear no shoes. When I am chilling outside, I wear my TOMS.

The only difference between a Buddha and a Buddha that's sleeping is that the Buddha holds onto nothing, whereas the Buddha that is sleeping attaches to thoughts, feelings, etc.

We think that the ego has some kind of substantiality but in reality it really has to ground. Through meditation we investigate what we truly are. Are we our thoughts? Are we our feelings? Are we our beliefs? Then we see that there is something before and something always there. Since all these mental phenomena are changing "I" cannot be these things. But when we realize that we are that which is before thinking. We see the ego and it's game.

The ego tries its best and for the most part it means well. Survive says the ego. Do this and that. You have to plan. You have to succeed. You're not good enough. etc. The best is when the ego tries to get rid of ego haha.
I need to get rid of my thinking mind.

The egoless state is always with us. Relax. Let everything be as it is. And open up to it. It's out natural state of consciousness.

Once we are at the groundless, which we always are, then the ego is no problem. The ego is a great tool. We become the owners of the ego and not the other way around.

Hope this helps.

[Malinson]

That which comes to be cannot be so without the potential to come to be in the first place. If there is no potential for something to ever exist, then that something can never exist in any reality.

creation is simply an act of rising into manifestation that which is a latent truth. Field probabilities for example explain too us that any latent potential can become an actual when drawn toward ad infinitum.

What does this mean us? It means that Truth is truth, whether revealed or not; Real is real whether latent or not. Eternity is all that could be true latent but never manifest; infinity is all that could be real manifest but never latent....

In other words, an eternal truth never permeates infinity in a manifested way, unhinging Buddhism's claim of cosmic karma. All things rise based on an eternal potential in a sea of infinite manifestation, and not via chains of causal interconnections.

Eternity is likened to the never seeing eye to infinity’s everlasting touch, thus we exist as a potential for both but the attainment of neither. ..

P.S. You can eliminate your ego, but you can't eliminate its potential to ever exist. Thus, your life as it is will rise yet again and again without end....

-Malinson

[spiritual_emergency]

I probably should have chosen a different title for this topic. Meantime, more notes on darkness and luminosity , whether they belong here or not.

================================================== ==============================

Darkness born of darkness. The beginning of all understanding.

The Tao

================================================== ===================================

~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~
~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~
~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~

A life is time, they teach you growing up
...The seconds ticking killed us all
A million years before the fall
You ride the waves and don't ask where they go
You swim like lions through the crest
And bathe yourself in zebra flesh

~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do
~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do
~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do

Music of the Hour: Primitive Radio Gods ~ Standing Outside a Broken Phone Booth With Money in My Hand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua4D6lUMFjY&feature=fvst)

(This theme of ~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~ ran through this collection like a nice little mantra. :)



‎... Understanding antimatter is one of the biggest challenges facing science -- most theoretical physicists and cosmologists believe that at the Big Bang, when the universe was created, matter and antimatter were produced in equal amounts....

However, as our world is made up of matter, antimatter seems to have disappeared.

Understanding antimatter could shed light on why almost everything in the known universe consists of matter.

Antimatter has been very difficult to handle because matter and antimatter don't get on, destroying each other instantly on contact in a violent flash of energy.

... "This will help us understand the structure of space and time. For reasons that no one yet understands, nature ruled out antimatter... this inspires us to work that much harder to see if antimatter holds some secret."

Source: Scientists capture antimatter atoms in particle breakthrough (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/11/18/switzerland.cern.antimatter/index.html?hpt=Sbin)






The initial disordered state that I am describing contains two distinct elements. The first is an experience of dying or of having already died, which symbolizes a dissolution of the accustomed self. The second element, closely related to the first, is a vision of the death of the world. In an acute psychosis individuals undergo a profound reorganization of the self, effected by a thoroughgoing reintegration through utter disintegration. Life cannot be repaired, it can only be re-created by returning to the sources. And the 'source of sources' is the prodigious outpouring of energy, life and the fecundity that occured at the Creation of the World.

Source: Visionary Experience in Myth and Ritual (http://spiritualemergency.blogspot.com/2006/01/visionary-experience-in-myth-ritual.html)






In the beginning all was the void and all was black.
God saw this and said, 'Let there be light'. And there was.

- Genesis


... With this new understanding of metaphor let us begin to recomprehend new concepts in light of this awareness.

We will begin with the color black. Black is the color that contains all colors. If you took all of the colors of the rainbow and combined them your resulting mix would be black in color. Metaphorically speaking then - it is possible for black to represent all things in their beginning stage. Black is the color, or the substance, from which all things manifest. Out of the black depths of space - stars, suns and planets form. The universe was once, according to scientists, a place that was dark and void of light. There was a black dust that hung like a mist throughout the universe. Slowly this dust coagulated into larger pieces. Soon the pieces begin to collect and grow, compression and gravity were the result. Over time enough of this material eventually formed into a dense sphere. This sphere began to compress and pressure within its core beginning to manifest. Soon the core began to collapse in on itself. Eventually this collapsing state began a nuclear reaction. This nuclear reaction spread throughout the mass of this compressed sphere and ignited it, turning it into the first star, the first sun. Out of this dark, dense and black material - light was formed.

Source: In The Beginning (http://spiritualemergency.blogspot.com/2006/01/in-beginning.html)





(Simple) Notes. Hopefully, the kind I can grasp...

- physicists couldn't predict anything about the electron! Until a very smart guy named Paul Dirac thought about it: he found a very simple way to describe the proprieties and behavior of ...electrons, but... there was something curios about it!

His description would only work if the electron had a "twin" particle, identical to it but with an opposite electric charge. It would be just like its mirror image!

- Think about playing with "playdough" (Paul probably did). Starting with a flattened layer of dough, take a star shaped cutter and press it through the dough, now carefully remove the shape and .. hey presto, you've got a star! But take a look at the dough: there is another star there, exactly the same as the one you are holding - except that it's a hole, the "negative image", or opposite of your star. And you have no choice: whatever shape you cut from the dough, you also make its exact "negative" image.

Paul thought that particles must also be cut out of some kind of DOUGH, and then you would also have their "negatives" - the antiparticles!

- every time you make one of these particle, you'll leave a hole in the dough: its antiparticle! Particles and antiparticles are always created together, out of energy.

- you can imagine what happened when Paul suggested that antiparticles exist: physicists wanted proof and started to look for them! Their idea was to take a bit of energy-dough and try to make particle-antiparticle twins.

Their first success was the creation of an "electron-positron" pair, twins that only require a relatively small amount of energy-dough to make them. Later came pairs of protons and antiprotons, then pairs of neutrons and antineutrons - but only after physicists had learned how to make enough energy-dough!

So Paul was right! antiparticles do exist! Of course, the antiparticles created in a laboratory live for a very short time before they crash into normal particles and annihilate. But nevertheless, they do exist.

This means that when the electrons, protons and neutrons which make our world were created, a lot of their twins (positrons, antiprotons and antineutrons) were also made. So, where are they? Where did they go? Did they become an antiworld?

Source: Kid's Corner - What is Antimatter? (http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/kids/am-kids02.html)





... Matter and antimatter, or we should probably say particles and antiparticles, don't seem to like each other very much. If they get too close, they destroy each other, disappearing in a kind of explosion. Or may be it's the opposite: they like each other so much that when they finally meet, it's just an explosion of joy!

One way or the other (I guess we will never know), but there is definitely something "hot" going on: both particle and antiparticle disappear, leaving behind the energy they were made of. Physicists call this "annihilation".

Source: Kid's Corner - When Particles and Antiparticles Meet (http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/kids/AM-kids03.html)





This is a black, empty space encountered at a very subtle level of identity, the sense of identity which stems from the experience of existence. Here we are not dealing with boundaries of any image; we are dealing with the identity itself, ...the actual feeling of existence. Identity itself, both ego-identity and essential identity (identification with Being) is annihilated here in this space. As this space arises, the individual encounters fears of death, of disappearing, of annihilation, of nonexistence. This space is actually the experience of nonexistence, of complete extinction of self, of cessation. The cessation can be so deep that even awareness and consciousness cease for a time. The person here is not only afraid of the death of the body, but is also afraid that his mind will cease to exist. And this cessation of mind is exactly the experience of this space. This space, although it arouses the greatest terror, is experienced as the greatest peace. (The Void, pg 148)

Source: Annihilation[/url]





Ego-Fragmentation in Schizophrenia: A severe dissociation of self-experience

In this chapter, I will propose that schizophrenic syndromes represent a unique type of 'ego' or 'self-pathology', an ego fragmentation that in extreme forms could ...be considered an annihilation of the "ego/self".

Source: [URL="http://books.google.ca/books?id=Jl3VFUb5BHIC&pg=PT73&lpg=PT73&dq=psychosis%2Bfragmentation&source=bl&ots=Cp2t5AehO8&sig=IXwFg1HVI7vz2KTfNk88pUKV71I&hl=en&ei=4mVdS_f5J4ySsgOosYidAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDMQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=psychosis%20fragmentation&f=false"]Psychosis, Trauma and Dissociation (http://www.ahalmaas.com/Glossary/a/annihilation.htm)





Is Kali, my Divine Mother, of a black complexion?
She appears black because She is viewed from a distance;
but when intimately known She is no longer so.
The sky appears blue at a distance, but look at it close by
and you will find that it has no colour.
The water of the ocean looks blue at a distance,
but when you go near and take it in your hand,
you find that it is colourless."

... Ramakrishna Paramhansa (1836-86)




~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~



Imagine a hot metal sheet in a coin factory ('energy'). When you stamp out a coin from a metal sheet, you are left with a coin and a hole in the sheet.You could call this hole an "anticoin".

This is similar to what happens when energy transforms into matter. Many experiments have shown that you can only produce a pair of particle and its mirror image, called 'antiparticle', at the same time. Nobody has ever observed the production of only particles, or only antiparticles.

That example also shows another feature observed with particles and antiparticles. To create them, it takes energy, and when you bring them back together ('annihilation', because they disappear into a flash of energy), this energy is released. It is like putting the coin back into the hole, leaving the original metal sheet.

~ It is like putting the coin back into the whole...

Source: Kid's Corner - Antimatter Academy (http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/academy/AM-travel01b.html)





... The Heart Sutra
Translation by Edward Conze
Homage to the Perfection of Wisdom, the Lovely, the Holy!

Avalokita, The Holy Lord and Bodhisattva, was moving in the deep course of the Wisdom which has gone beyond. He looked down from on high, He beheld but five heaps, and he saw that in their own-being they were empty.

Here, Sariputra, form is emptiness and the very emptiness is form; emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness; whatever is form, that is emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form, the same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses and consciousness.

Here, Sariputra, all dharmas are marked with emptiness; they are not produced or stopped, not defiled or immaculate, not deficient or complete.

Therefore, Sariputra, in emptiness there is no form, nor feeling, nor perception, nor impulse, nor consciousness; No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind; No forms, sounds, smells, tastes, touchables or objects of mind; No sight-organ element, and so forth, until we come to: No mind-consciousness element; There is no ignorance, no extinction of ignorance, and so forth, until we come to: there is no decay and death, no extinction of decay and death. There is no suffering, no origination, no stopping, no path. There is no cognition, no attainment and non-attainment.

Therefore, Sariputra, it is because of his non-attainment that a Bodhisattva, through having relied on the Perfection of Wisdom, dwells without thought-coverings. In the absence of thought-coverings he has not been made to tremble, he has overcome what can upset, and in the end he attains to Nirvana.

All those who appear as Buddhas in the three periods of time fully awake to the utmost, right and perfect Enlightenment because they have relied on the Perfection of Wisdom.Therefore one should know the prajnaparamita as the great spell, the spell of great knowledge, the utmost spell, the unequalled spell, allayer of all suffering, in truth - for what could go wrong? By the prajnaparamita has this spell been delivered. It runs like this:

Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all-hail!

Source: Emptiness is Form (http://thebigview.com/buddhism/emptiness.html)




~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~




But I can be your, be your . . . mirror
But I can be your, be your . . . mirror

Source: Gallagher's Song (http://thefifthbody.homestead.com/Gallaghers_Song.html)





Look at yourself in the mirror: what if the guy just in front of you, the one in the mirror, really existed?

Physicists have already been thinking about this question, they would call the guy an "antiyou".

And physicists even imagined that somewhere far away there could be a world that looks just like our own, or rather like the mirror image of it. It would be an antiworld with antistars, antihouses, antistrawberries, all made of ANTIMATTER!

But, what is ANTIMATTER and... can this really be TRUE?

Source: The Mystery of Antimatter (http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/kids/AM-kids00.html)



~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~




If these reflections are justified, they must have weighty consequences with regard to the nature of the psyche, since as an objective fact it would then be intimately connected with physiological and biological phenomena but with physical vents too -- and so it would appear, most intimately of all with those that pertain to the realm of atomic physics.

Symbols mediate between the unpresentable archetypes and the world of the manifest. They link the dark realm of indefinite power, vitality and mystery to the well-lit world of ego consciousness with its relatively fixed meanings and limitations.

This inherent bipolarity of symbols, their ability to affect the coniuncto between consciousness and the unconscious is precisely why they are central in any study of the opposites. A symbol can be amplified by an extended net of personal, cultural and historical associations but it can never be fully objectified and comprehended since its roots are in the unrepresentable archetype, in the most secret depths of the soul.

Source: The Opposites in Quantum Physics and Jungian Psychology (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1465-5922.1991.00289.x/abstract)





Source: [urlhttp://www.synthesiscenter.org/articles/0129.pdf]The Balancing and Synthesis of the Opposites






In my own life, the thoughts, I have
... all drift away...
Does summer come for everyone?
Can humans do what prophets says?
And if I die before I learn to speak
Can money pay for all the days
I lived awake but half-asleep?

~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~
~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~
~ duh-do-en-do-ten-duh-do ~

[Ron-the-Elder]

Discussions of Ego from Bhikkhu Samahita:

source: http://what-buddha-said.net/drops/Conceit_I_Am.htm

Friends:

The Ego is the Greatest Self-Deception!

Even when old and sick, the wise Elder Khemaka spoke these wise words &
thereby made himself and 60 listening Bhikkhu friends awakened Arahats!

"Friends, I do not speak of 'I Am' as inside form, nor do I speak of 'I Am'
as outside or apart from form! I do not speak of 'I Am' as within feeling,
nor do I speak of 'I Am' as outside or apart from feeling! I do not speak
of 'I Am' as within experience, nor do I speak of 'my self' as outside or
apart from experience! I do not speak of 'my ego' as being within mental
construction, nor do I speak of 'my self' as outside or apart from mental
construction! I do not speak of 'my ego' as within consciousness, nor do I
speak of 'my self, ego or identity' as outside or apart from consciousness!
Friends, although the concept 'I Am' has not yet been eliminated fully by
me regarding these five clusters of clinging, still I do neither regard any
among them, nor within them as 'This entity is what I am... This is my ego!'
Friends, even though a Noble Disciple has broken the five minor mental
chains, eliminated the five lower fetters, still, regarding these 5 clusters
of clinging, there remains in him a residual conceit of conceiving 'I Am',
there lingers a subtle desire for possessing a core ego: 'I Am' and there
hangs on a latent tendency to construing or contriving 'I Am', that has not
yet been uprooted! Sometime later, while he dwells contemplating the rise
and fall of the 5 clusters of clinging: 'Such is form, such is the originating
cause and ceasing of form. Such is feeling, such is the originating cause &
ceasing of feeling. Such is perception, the originating cause and ceasing of
perception. Such is mental construction, such is the originating cause and
ceasing of mental construction. Such is consciousness, such is the initiating
cause of consciousness and such is its ceasing! As he dwells thus seriously
contemplating the rise & fall in these five clusters of clinging, any residual
conceit 'I Am', any remnant desire to conceive and deposit 'My Ego', and
any latent tendency to construe a fixed and stable identity as 'My Self',
that had not yet been uprooted, becomes uprooted & eliminated completely..."

While the elder Khemaka spoke these words, he and 60 Bhikkhus awakened!



Source: The Grouped Sayings of the Buddha. Samyutta Nikāya III [130-1]
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/samyutta/sn22-089.html
As book: http://www.pariyatti.com/book.cgi?prod_id=948507

The causes produce arising when present, while ceasing when absent:
Food, ignorance, lust for form, and kamma causes the body and form.
Contact, ignorance, lust for feeling, and kamma causes all feeling.
Contact, ignorance, lust for perception, and kamma causes all perception.
Contact, ignorance, lust for construction, and kamma causes construction.
Name-&-Form, ignorance, desire to be and remain conscious, and kamma
causes consciousness to emerge, when present, and cease when absent.
No ego, self, soul or identity can ever be found neither within, nor outside
these ever changing and incessantly arising and ceasing transient states...

[abaris]

Seeing that the wise Bhikkhu Samahita managed to use the phrase "I Am"
11 times in his short speech, I say: He's just full of himself!

[Ron-the-Elder]

Seeing that the wise Bhikkhu Samahita managed to use the phrase "I Am"
11 times in his short speech, I say: He's just full of himself!

Bhikkhu Samahita is translating a dhamma lesson to a group of Bhikkhus from Elder Khemaka, a Venerable Buddhist Monk, who is simply paraphrasing Buddha's words regarding the delusional self, not his own. Buddha is of course referring to the delusional "I am".

I can see how you would miss the point of the entire discussion, however. It requires some study when we live our entire lives falsely believing that there is any "self" to be identified in here.

Sorry for any confusion.

[abaris]

Ron-The-Elder:

I can see how you would miss the point...


I got the point Ron, the point Bhikkhu Samahita trying to make. But you see, to the balding man hair loss is mankind's greatest curse, to the starving man it is hunger, and to Bhikkhu Samahita the ego is the greatest obstacle to whatever it is he wants to achieve. So what does this tell you about the guy?

[Gelatinous Pope]

ego death totally blows my mind

[Ron-the-Elder]

I got the point Ron, the point Bhikkhu Samahita trying to make. But you see, to the balding man hair loss is mankind's greatest curse, to the starving man it is hunger, and to Bhikkhu Samahita the ego is the greatest obstacle to whatever it is he wants to achieve. So what does this tell you about the guy?

Then you misunderstand Bhikkhu Samahita's work. Bhante' provides readings daily regarding any and all of Buddha's Teachings from The Tipitaka.

You may review or read them for yourself.

http://what-buddha-said.net/drops/Index.Dhamma.Drops1.htm

I only provided that particular translation, because of the topic being discussed: ego death.

Sorry if I mislead you.

[Gelatinous Pope]

there's a secret
there's a secret that the wind tells to the grass

it shakes it
it shakes it shakes it pointing which way it went

[Gelatinous Pope]

Oooh, I discovered this song on the Animatrix dvd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZWQRaY0Tns
who am i by peace orchestra