The Nature Of Perfection

[Smurf]

*Smurf is dressed in a stripy three-piece suit, wearing a boater hat and waving a cane as he speaks atop a podium. Balloons are flying overhead and multi-coloured streamers are draped over the scene.

"Roll up Roll up! come and discuss perfection here!"

Is it relative? Or is it Absolute? An opinion? Is it just a concept?

Myself I believe that it is a concept that encaptulates flawlessness and other really complex things that I can't discuss yet as there is a person wating to use the computer.

Ok so yeah discuss perfection!!

[______]

We are all already perfect. :)

[Starry_Canopy]

We are all already perfect. :)

I second that :) ("All the meat here is the best meat, there is none other!")

[marleylinguistics]

i think that as an objective idea is already acheived by existance in general, in fact it always was, because if we are here today and our history is the way it is then we are who we are and no one else, and could never be anything else but perfect. but perfection as a HUMAN idea, is different i think. i beleive it is the desire to be liked and far from noble, along with the desire of things superficial.

[Smurf]

We are all already perfect.

What as an individual? I think not, as we are finite and flawless

[scameter]

I think it's impossible to simply call something perfection, because there are so many different types of it. For instance, a black circle may be mathematically perfect, but it may not be the perfect colour for someone to use as, say, wall paper.

[______]

What as an individual? I think not, as we are finite and flawless
In our flaws and our impermanance, we are perfect. Flaws are a point of view with an objective to better oneself. All we really do is add to our perfect perfection. :)

[scameter]

To Zen, the simple fact that we exist makes us perfect. There does not have to be any other attachments, changes or goals.

[______]

:)

[Winfried]

I think perfection is a rathar abstract concept. It is something we can imagine, which helps our pursuit for it. Yet it is not something that can actually be achieved. But maybe we can get mighty close.

For example: No circle is perfectly round. But they get rather close to being perfectly round, so we'll just ignore that extremely small difference between the circle in question, and the concept of 'perfectly round'.

It's not the best example, but you might just get the idea what I'm talking about.

[scameter]

Hmm... sounds similar to Kant.

[Winfried]

I kind of got the idea from mr Karl Marx.
Though he was talking about the concept of a chair being first thought of, then when the concept was worked out enough, the chair would be created. I thought, why not apply this line of thinking to other concepts?

[scameter]

Anything's possible I suppose, although I think it is somewhat arrogant to assume our perceptions are what make reality; and, with the fact of the existence of things that are purely received, such as intuition/instincts and sensory information, which we cannot really create ourselves, even if we specifically engineer a situation to produce the remembered effects.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

What does "perfect" really mean? Isn't a circle perfect in the abstract, as is a line, a triangle, etc.? Does perfect mean the exact achievement of a goal? Is it just a consideration? Is it a measurement against a standard (if so, that would mean that being standard is perfect)?

By what standard is perfection itself judged?

[scameter]

All of those possible examples you gave are conceptual ones we would have made ourselves. Thus, the real question is, can/does perfect exist outside of our judgement?

[Starry_Canopy]

can/does perfect exist outside of our judgement

Since 'perfection' is understood as the opposite of 'imperfection', I doubt it can exist independently and outside of our minds.

[scameter]

So because it has an opposite, it cannot exist outside of our minds?

[Starry_Canopy]

Yes, because it needs a 'judgement' for it to be. Some mind needs to judge whether it is 'perfect' or not compared to something else that is 'not perfect'. Without this judging aspect, there is no basis for it. What do you think, Scameter?

[Winfried]

Seems to me that what you say is that it does exist in many minds, but not outside of it.

[scameter]

Indeed, which I do not think is necessarily the point. I think we need to determine where the concept of perfection derives, hence whether from the human conceptual imagination or from something actually existing but only given conceptual attachments, thus determining if it is from the human mind only or not.