Spiritual World

[MidnightSun]

Today we had to write an essay in school about materialistic and spiritual world. Since im not good in begining a topic I will make it short :D The essay was supposed to include our opinions about spiritual and materialistic world and how do we think they both are like, we had to describe them both. Also the teacher told us to write down about our opinions in living in both of those worlds and about materialistic and spiritual people who live in them. So now i would like u to write down ur opinion here too.

[scameter]

I think the difference between the material and spiritual worlds is that the material world is directly perceptable by our current sensory and physical awareness, whether it truly exists, is an illusion or whatever else. The spiritual world, on the other hand, is very much so present everywhere and in everything, and indeed is the driving force of things metaphysically, but it is not directly perceptable by normal physical sensory abilities.

[______]

^ I second that! ^
:D

[Smurf]

I think the difference between the material and spiritual worlds is that the material world is directly perceptable by our current sensory and physical awareness, whether it truly exists, is an illusion or whatever else. The spiritual world, on the other hand, is very much so present everywhere and in everything, and indeed is the driving force of things metaphysically, but it is not directly perceptable by normal physical sensory abilities.

So we have one thing that you can see, but might be an illusion. And we have another thing that we can't percieve, but is a definate existance .....

To me there is no spiritual, it is just an anomoly created by the mind to feed the insatiable need that is human curiosity. To me there is only the physical or "material" world. This obviously creates our brain which in turn creates our illusion that is the mind.

"I think therefore I am"

I think not so, you exist already, but referring to the "you" that is the mind? It would not exist without the biochemistry or the molecular brainstructure.

But that's just what I think

[scameter]

Indeed, it is just what you think. And my answering to midnight's question was only going by the founded views on such things as he was inquiring about. I was making no claim of faith. :)

[Ranma]

Material World is where we are living in now. Things that can be touch and seen. Spiritual World is a place where we could not see or touch but can be feel. On some explanation is call dimension. But Spritual World could be illusion world where none existance happen.

Cheers

[______]

But Spritual World could be illusion world where none existance happen.
Much like this material world is an illusion! :D :lol:

[Ranma]

Material World = Illusion too....hmmm......I am not so sure about this. But most of the time people fall into illusion when comes into Spiritual World. The reason being might be, no people actually knows where is the spiritual world is located. Mostly are actually writen down by some people. So there isnt any evidence of existance.

[______]

The spiritual world's location? Tell me this, where is the material world located?

[Ranma]

Material World could be here where we exist. Do you agree on this?

[______]

True, we live in the Material World, but in relation in area, where is it located?

[Ranma]

Area? You mean now here is this area? Should be in third dimension.

[______]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Okay, now that I've effectivly confused you: We cannot locate a certain plane of existance because they do not exist as though on a map. We cannot say, "This is where the Material World is and such-and-such distance away is the Spiritual World."

We as human beings are unable to see past the Material World.

[Smurf]

No no you're right we can't see past it


But we can Think beyond it.
To another place where we know that it is not connected to the material world. In that way we have some perception of location.

[Starry_Canopy]

This is what I have heard about spiritual matter and spiritual world:

To get an idea of the "empty" space that abounds in our 'world', imagine that we scale up an atom so that its nucleus is the size of an apple. Now, if this 'apple' were kept in the middle of a football stadium, the electrons would be spinning around outside the stands! There is that much of so called 'empty space' in each and every atom and more in between them.

It seems that this empty space is anything but empty but filled with spiritual matter. It seems that that spiritual matter is the substance that condenses/ transforms into the matter of the sub-atomic particles that form the atoms.

The subtler forms taken by this spiritual matter are supposed to form the spiritual world and the grossest form the material world that we 'know'. Thus, the spiritual and material worlds are all the time simultaneously existing in the spiritual matter.

One of the properties of the spiritual matter is consciousness. It seems that this consciousness is present in all the forms that the spiritual matter transforms into including physical matter. It has been recently proven scientifically that photons (packets of light), one of the most fundamental of material forms, have consciousness. They seem to know when an observer wants to measure them as particles and when he wants to measure them as waves and accordingly take that form. From this, the authors of that experiment hypothesize that material existence and consciousness seem to be two sides of the same coin. They have stated and expanded upon this line of thinking in their book, "Quantum Consciousness".

The question of 'where' appears to have an answer 'right here, in subtler and subtler planes of existence'.

Now, where is 'here' seems to be the problem, as without ego consciousness, there is supposed to be neither time nor space.

Hope that the above merits consideration.

[______]

To another place where we know that it is not connected to the material world.
<_< Perhaps they're intertwined?
The question of 'where' appears to have an answer 'right here, in subtler and subtler planes of existence'.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Should've read ahead before replying! :wub:

[Starry_Canopy]

Hi :)

The message I posted above on what might be the structure of existence is based on what I've read and heard, not directly experienced. So, it is all still only hypothetical for me. :)

Please share with me your understanding of reality :)

You speak so little, yet quite powerfully/ immediately! It reminds me of two things:

"Those who know, don't talk and those who talk, don't know"

Krishna (Buddhahood) to Arjuna, in Bhagawat Gita:"... and some come very close to finding me, but are led away by their tongues!"

Bye for now, take care!

[______]

Please share with me your understanding of reality
It's not at all what I think it is. :)

[Starry_Canopy]

I would love to hear it, then! :)

Please tell me so that I can expand my understanding by adding the perspective that you have :)

[______]

:lol: I certainly can't tell you. It's something we all must find for ourselves. :lol: I'm nowhere near entirely sure as to what "reality" really is! ;)

[Starry_Canopy]

Thank you :) You are very correct about that! :) I feel sorry for my weakness.... in still indulging in intellectual pleasures knowing that they are not the real thing...

Once when I was doing meditation, I felt as if the entire universe in its essence wanted to vcome to me and engulf me... full of a strong love... a sort of current... powerful, yet not painful... soft but strong... tugging, engulfing... but I felt scared and I resisted and that went away

[Starry_Canopy]

Hi Psyche!

Just want to know, how did you get it? I wish to know if you got it by following some method recommended by someone (like a Guru) or it just happened because you sincerely wished to know (as it says in the Bible, "Ask and it shall be revealed unto you").

The reason I wish to know is, I've come across both types of reasoning as to how to attain to the truth:
1. No one can show you, each person's way to realisation of the truth is unique as each person is unique.
2. The ultimate step has to be taken by each person alone, but a good part of the way can be covered by taking the help of a guide (following his/her prescribed method) who has already gone there.

Curious as to how it was in your case so that I can add it to the reference library in my mind :)

Hope you don't mind the personal question.

[Starry_Canopy]

This sort of thing has happened to me too! Though in a much smaller way, perhaps...

Like that parable of "all meat here is the best meat; there is none other" ... I had read it and understood it intelectually and appreciated its logic, etc. but had not actually seen/ experienced its truth. Then, suddenly one day, as I was walking home after some small neibourhood shopping, suddenly everything around me, nature, man made things, people, animals and birds etc. all of them looked uniformly lovely and filled with goodness! And in my mind the essence of those words leapt up and filled me with joy and love...

Guess those words were germinating inside and at that time they sprouted....

[TheObjectiveSubjective]

I don't know if the spirtual world actually exists or not. But I do think that God himself is everywhere in the material world, we just need to realize it first.( I have not realized it yet because I am not enlightened.)

[Starry_Canopy]

I don't know if the spirtual world actually exists or not

I think that depends on what we call the 'Spiritual World(s)'

If we say that we define the world that we are in based on what can be perceived through our five senses, or through their extensions such as microscopes, telescopes and thermometers/ X rays etc, then, probably, spiritual world(s) do exist. Else, how to explain where those who die go to? That they are there somewhere seems to be corraborated through mediums and planchets being able to contact them and facilitate intelligent conversations with them.

If we define the world as all that that exists whether we are able to perceive them or not, then of course, there is only one world that is the sum totality of all the so called different worlds.

[namtso]

That they are there somewhere seems to be corraborated through mediums and planchets being able to contact them and facilitate intelligent conversations with them.
I've been to a person like this, probably over 20 years ago. My Grandmother used to visit the person often. But I never came away with the feeling that there had been any sort of proof that the entity speaking through the medium was real or could somehow prove it's existence. In fact that was one of the questions I asked of the entity and the reply back was that there could be no proof. What's your experience with this?

[Starry_Canopy]

In fact that was one of the questions I asked of the entity and the reply back was that there could be no proof. What's your experience with this?

I have had no direct experience communicating with spirits, except that I feel fairly sure that I have seen a ghost once. The details are in my recent posting in:
Forum: Religion, Topic: "Spirits on Earth"..Do ghosts really walk on earth?

I am sorry, I don't know how to send you a link for it.

Apart from that, my relatives have told me how they have contacted other relatives who had passed away using the planchet. It seems that they used to always place a food offering for the spirit 'guest' while calling them. in one instance they had kept a banana that was not fully ripe. When they asked the spirit hospitably whether it had partaken of the offering (without naming the banana) it seems it had replied,"Yes, I had the vegetable-fruit".

Another incidence was when my class girls (grade 10) had experimented with a planchet. They used it to call for departed world leaders to converse with them. It seems they called Hitler, too, who told them that yes, he had been cruel and yes, that he had sinned. But after saying that, he told them that he would teach them a lesson for making him feel bad about what was past and that he wouldn't let go of them. He hung on to them, not allowing them to lift their fingers off the planchet disc, and kept abusing them till they cried. It seems that finally another friendly spirit came and reasoned with him and made him let go. After that they never went near the planchet and warned us all to stay away from it. This is as they told us, the boys, who lived in a different hostel, the next day.

[Ranma]

Hmmmm.....Spiritual World...? Indeed a very good debating question. Exist or non-exist???Anyhow, my understanding is that, it exist if one's thing it does and is non-exist if one's think it doesn't. Is all depends on one's belief, knowledge and understanding. Hope my answer do not confuse anyone or bugged anyone too.


Cheers...!

[______]

...or bugged anyone too.
:lol: How do you mean?

I think the spiritual world exists even if it only exists in one's mind.

[Ranma]

I think my quotes in here is a bit annoying to some of the readers. Hopefully what i think is wrong.


Cheers.....!

[______]

No, I don't find them annoying. :)

[Winfried]

To get back to the discussion, or start a fairly new one:

It was believed by the ancient Greeks (now I don't know which one of them put forth this idea) that there are two worlds. One is the material, where we exist, and everything else living or non-living. The other is the Spiritual world, which holds all thoughts and ideas. All thoughts and ideas already exist, maybe even evolve (don't remember reading/hearing about that) and you just have to open your mind to catch them. These two worlds are connected to each other, so thoughts are capable of moving to the material world to find a host to express them anytime they want. If thoughts have desire, that is.

I like this idea. It's a bit of a lazyman's solution. Just open your mind, and everything will come to you. I wonder where my drill is <_<

[Ranma]

Open my mind.....i think i will go to hospital.......but y i need to open my mind??? hahahha....joking......

Well....is true if one's open up his/her mind, understanding things will come falling in. But is also depends on that person understanding to accept all.

Freeing your mind would it a better solutions.

Cheers...!

[namtso]

Just don't open your mind to these people -

Heaven's Gate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(cult))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(cult)


or these people - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo

uhh, or these - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple

not these either - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Solar_Temple

and definitely not these - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_tipping

[______]

:lol: Then who would you suggest?

[namtso]

Then who would you suggest?

I removed this post right here after remembering to behave myself after reading the "Genius" thread over there --- http://www.thebigview.com/discussion/index...f=2&t=1019&st=0 (http://www.thebigview.com/discussion/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=1019&st=0).
namtso

[______]

:goodlaugh: :rofl:

:uhoh: :uninvolved:

[Ranma]

Just don't open your mind to these people -


I should say why not open to all??? In a way, you may learn something from them. Doesn't means you open your mind to them you may be one of them? Is you own faith that will keep yourself to yourself. hehe.....hope you knows what I mean.

[drowden]

The material world and the spiritual world are exactly the same thing.

Form is formlessness; formlessness is form.

What is causality? Things. What are things? Causality.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Material World could be here where we exist. Do you agree on this?

Some people do seem to live more in the material world than the spiritual world, others seem to live more in the spiritual world than the material world. One thing that bothers me about many religions is how they use the material world as trappings and call themselves paths to the spiritual world. A church with stained glass windows, an altar, particular types of drapings for the altar and priests for various times of the year, incense, candles, Holy water, special dishes, bowls, and whatever all else - that is all the material world. The material world can be used to come to terms with one's spirit, but the material world most often numbs one's spirit as a distraction.

The material world is the place for the body, and the spiritual world is the place for the soul. When we are alive, our bodies and our spirits are united. Tending to both worlds is a risky opportunity, but with risk comes the potential for reward (or failure).

[Starry_Canopy]

"Spirit is main, mind follows, body belongs"