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Michael
25th August 2006, 10:34 PM
It was my daughter who caused the question of whether or not knowledge is good to bloom in my mind.

When she was small we had a game. At night when I was putting her to bed I would open her window and put my magic hand up into the night sky and search for a star. Not any star would do, I had to find the right star. If she was unhappy I would search for a happy star. If she was ill I would search for a star to make her better. When I found the right star I would tell her all it would do for her in the night and then put it under her pillow and she would snuggle up and go to sleep.

One morning we were having breakfast, she was just 3 years old at the time, when she asked me to reach up my magic hand and take her down a star. I was all morning fuzzy and far away from magic stars. I looked at her and asked, Aisling,where do you think the stars are?

She looked at me with an expression of panic, put her hand on my arm which was resting on the table, and said, Daddy, don't tell me where the stars are because if you do you'll only take away their magic.

I was stunned. The story of the Tree of Knowledge, of how Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden for eating from the Tree of Knowledge taking front of house in my mind. I also had recollections of tribes that had taboos around the name of things, particularly people. I also saw some relevance to the story of Babel - too much knowledge followed by punishment for challenging God.

The question is highly relevant as today our use of knowledge has brought us to a place where we are threatened on all sides, where the effects of our applications of knowledge put life on earth in great peril. Knowledge, or partial knowledge, is also at the root of many of our disagreements.

Is it possible that knowledge turns the stem cells of creation into something solid, that drains the magic from things? Is knowledge the substance that veils the face of the Creator from us?
The Tao of Physic while not directly addressing the issue of knowledge does draw interesting parallels between between the discoveries of quantum science and the insights of mystic. But this only says that knowledge can reflect mystical truths.

I would be very interested in any texts, myths or legends which show that other cultures had similar concerns about knowledge. And equally interested in substantial views which support the opposite.

...
26th August 2006, 12:12 AM
..let's not beat around the bush here AA, believe what you want and enjoy the experiences that follow those beliefs but i can't see them as proof of a Creator. Knowledge does not take away the magic of life, it strips ideas and notions of their function: to create a soothing comfortzone..

Is knowledge the substance that veils the face of the Creator from us?

..no, beliefs do that job perfectly fine, assuming there is a Creator ofcourse. I think this is about not wanting to loose warm fuzzies? I don't believe in a God/heaven or hell, reïncarnation, immortal souls, goal, destination or purpose, and you know what? I'm actually happy, carefree [if i get my Ipod Shuffle to work again] and enjoy life each day. I see nothing veiled at all, isn't that great?

Michael
26th August 2006, 02:32 AM
What can I say? :thumbsup:

But I must observe that knowledge is belief and belief is knowledge, in particular when the belief is shared.
So shared belief becomes knowledge - and that is the BIG problem. Competing collective beliefs, mimes, sort of mind bacteria fighting out their little(big) battles with us as their facilitators. Or perhaps not. It is, however, a valid postulate. Not quite sure how that integrates or amplifies what I said before. I think it may reduce belief to the same condition as knowledge. So belief and knowledge become aspects of yin and yang. Neither correct. Neither wrong. Both dynamic elements. Both conditional. Whatcha think?

...
26th August 2006, 03:28 AM
..okay, now you've done it :P

I think it may reduce belief to the same condition as knowledge. So belief and knowledge become aspects of yin and yang. Neither correct. Neither wrong. Both dynamic elements. Both conditional. Whatcha think?

..i think there's a distinct difference between beliefs and knowledge. We have knowledge about how certain aspects of life function, but we believe they have distinct causes. If one has a determination to come to understanding about truth, wouldn't it be prudent to look at what we know instead of focussing on beliefs?

..observe what is certain and forget everything else because if you start from assumption, all you end up with is more assumption. Right? You created a belief in your daughter about stars and knowledge of that belief would've taken away the magic she thought they contained, that much is true. But it doesn't reflect on knowledge at all, but showed the frailty of beliefs, which is in any case nothing more but a construct of the mind...

..what do you value more AA, such constructs with some redeeming qualities, or the truth?

scameter
26th August 2006, 09:59 AM
Knowledge acquiring is inevitable, and thus it cannot truly be entirely bad for us, because truly, what that we have fundamentally as a species is bad for us? And even if it is, it doesn't matter. But, I think the true question is, is truth good for us.

redraven
27th August 2006, 06:38 AM
Knowledge is great, but knowledge requires Wisdom, which I wholeheartedly believe exists, in spite of many indications to the contrary. And then, I would follow, that Wisdom requires Compassion.

So you know how to biologically alter a human, you are wise enough to know a way that is good for people, and you have compassion on the people who must live with the effects of your actions.

scameter
27th August 2006, 08:34 AM
I think that it is better to have wisdom and compassion when one has alot of knowledge, but I don't think technically either are required for knowledge, especially not mundane knowledge.

Thomas Knierim
27th August 2006, 09:57 AM
Knowlede is power and power ought to be used wisely.

Cheers, Thomas

Michael
27th August 2006, 07:31 PM
Knowledge is great, but knowledge requires Wisdom, which I wholeheartedly believe exists, in spite of many indications to the contrary. And then, I would follow, that Wisdom requires Compassion.

So you know how to biologically alter a human, you are wise enough to know a way that is good for people, and you have compassion on the people who must live with the effects of your actions.

Thank you, that goes into the tucker bag.

scameter
28th August 2006, 12:58 PM
Knowledge is a form of power and can be used for and with power, but I don't think knowledge is fundamentally power, personally.

______
28th August 2006, 05:39 PM
Knowledge may be power, Thomas, but what good is knowledge when implemented without wisdom?

Brahmanyan
29th August 2006, 04:49 PM
Yes the little one is correct. Knowledge clears the mystery. Then there is no fun.
But on the other hand Knowledge without Wisdom limits our understanding. Many Great seers of " Vedanta" of Hindu beliefs have cautioned about this. Knowledge is a "banda" a knot/or a fencing, which may not allow to think freely or accept new thoughts. Like a cork it may seal growth. For Spiritual pursuits let us be like a Child.

Michael
29th August 2006, 05:22 PM
Thank you Brahmanyan, most pertinent and great fun. You bring to mind a song from my childhood,

'If your heart's a child's heart
and if your eyes are clear,
you'll never fear the thorn tree
that grows beyond Clogheen'.

scameter
29th August 2006, 11:24 PM
And fun is what it's all about. B)