Internet Costs

[TruthSeeker]

I was wondering...
How much does it cost to store 1 megabyte of information in a server? How about trasnfering the data fast enough?

Any ideas? :huh:

[Winfried]

It takes little computing power nowadays, so in money as well as elictricity it should cost about as much as a fly's leftwing.

Or are you referring to the metaphysical? :think:

[TruthSeeker]

A server costs thousands of dollars, actually... <_<

My biggest problem is that I simply don't know what I actually need... :think:

[Winfried]

'thousands of dollars' doesn't seem much, especially in a world where people don't mind if the state has got several billions too little... (not that I have thousands of dollars, but hey, I'm sixteen years old :) )
You're planning to put up your own internet server? Good luck ;)

[TruthSeeker]

No, not that... <_<

[TruthSeeker]

http://www.fadzter.com/smilies/bored.gif

[TruthSeeker]

Let's make it simple: how much e-bay spend to stay on-line? ;)

[scameter]

I think Thomas would know.

[Smurf]

My friend says that it all depends really, ranges from free to very expensive

A site I know sells 1GB for $5 per month

:)

[TruthSeeker]

Yes, scam...

Smurf, which site is that that sells 1GB for $5 per month!? B)

[Thomas Knierim]

I don't understand the question. Do you look for a server to host your data, or do you look for an Internet access provider for a faster Internet connection? In both areas the prices have come down enormously. If you look for hosting, I can give you an example. The provider where thebigview.com is hosted offers shared hosting for $6.85 per month for 5 Gigabytes space and 50 Gigagbytes traffic.

Cheers, Thomas

[TruthSeeker]

I don't understand the question.
To be honest, me neither. :lol:
I guess I was just confused about what I actually needed... <_<

Do you look for a server to host your data, or do you look for an Internet access provider for a faster Internet connection?
I'm just trying to find out the fixed and variable costs involved in creating a large database connected to an internet website. That would include the costs of storing the inofrmation and trasmitting information, I suppose. The first question I bumped into is whether I would need to buy a server for that, since I would probably store a lot of information.

In both areas the prices have come down enormously. If you look for hosting, I can give you an example. The provider where thebigview.com is hosted offers shared hosting for $6.85 per month for 5 Gigabytes space and 50 Gigagbytes traffic.
Wow! Looks good! I wonder what would be the point of indifference between hosting and buying a server... <_<

And also the advantages and disadvantages of each... :think:

[Thomas Knierim]

Truthseeker: I guess I was just confused about what I actually needed...

The hosting industry typically offers packages for shared hosting (various sizes), dedicated hosting (a web server all for yourself), e-commerce hosting, VPS hosting (virtual private server), and reseller hosting. First, you need to identify the hosting package that suits you. This is done by defining benchmark data for storage size, expected throughput, features, and required administration utilities. Second, you need to find a reliable hosting company that offers such a package. Surprisingly this is not an entirely trivial task. The alternative is of course to set up your own web server, but that's something I wouldn't recommend even if you had the technical expertise.

Truthseeker: The first question I bumped into is whether I would need to buy a server for that, since I would probably store a lot of information.

I think you need to quantify what what "a lot of information" means in terms of MB or GB. "Size" has two aspects: storage size and throughput. You can calculate throughput by expected page views per day * average page size * 30. There's a lot of guesswork, just like in a businessplan. Renting a server is of course much more expensive than virtual (shared) hosting, where you effectively rent a small slice of a server. Dedicated servers cost between $50 and $250 USD per month, depending on specifications.

Truthseeker: I'm just trying to find out the fixed and variable costs involved in creating a large database connected to an internet website.

The hosting company where thebigview.com is hosted offers MySQL and PostgreSQL database access. This message board uses MySQL. There is a limit of 200 MB, which is enough for tbv, but probably too little for a really big application. It is possible to expand the limit, however. Other hosting providers calculate database space from disk quota. Take a good look at the requirements before you make a decision.

Cheers, Thomas

[TruthSeeker]

The hosting industry typically offers packages for shared hosting (various sizes), dedicated hosting (a web server all for yourself), e-commerce hosting, VPS hosting (virtual private server), and reseller hosting.
What is the difference between e-commerce hosting and dedicated hosting?

First, you need to identify the hosting package that suits you. This is done by defining benchmark data for storage size, expected throughput, features, and required administration utilities.
That's the hard part. I would need to know how much memory each page need in average and then multiply by the number of pages.

I wonder if I could use information from e-commerce sites such as e-bay and amazon... <_<
Maybe they don't publish that information...

I wonder how much storage space amazon.com requires...

Second, you need to find a reliable hosting company that offers such a package. Surprisingly this is not an entirely trivial task.
I'm sure it isn't. None of this is...

The alternative is of course to set up your own web server, but that's something I wouldn't recommend even if you had the technical expertise.
Yes...

I think you need to quantify what what "a lot of information" means in terms of MB or GB. "Size" has two aspects: storage size and throughput. You can calculate throughput by expected page views per day * average page size * 30. There's a lot of guesswork, just like in a businessplan. Renting a server is of course much more expensive than virtual (shared) hosting, where you effectively rent a small slice of a server. Dedicated servers cost between $50 and $250 USD per month, depending on specifications.
Well, a lot of companies spend thousands of dollars more then just $250 to have a location! :eek:

It's hard to do those calculations when all that you have are ideas. I think one needs to create a conservative prototype to estimate that accurately... <_<

Where does the "30" come from? :huh:

The hosting company where thebigview.com is hosted offers MySQL and PostgreSQL database access. This message board uses MySQL.
Which kind of database is more flexible? What is the best database out there? Is MySQL object-oriented?

It is possible to expand the limit, however. Other hosting providers calculate database space from disk quota.
What is disk quota? :huh:
Pardon my ignorance... I'm an accountant...
I need some IT guys orking for me... :lol:

Take a good look at the requirements before you make a decision.
I usually take 1 year of research before making a big decision.

[Thomas Knierim]

TruthSeeker: What is the difference between e-commerce hosting and dedicated hosting?

"Dedicated hosting" means you rent an entire web server, a physical machine, usually in a rack. "E-commerce hosting" means you rent a web server (or in most cases a slice of it) with e-commerce features, such as shopping cart, payment system, etc.

TruthSeeker: Maybe they don't publish that information...

They don't. The kB size of web pages and their contents is very easy to determine, however. Simply download the pages and look at their file sizes in the cache directory.

TruthSeeker: Where does the "30" come from?

30 days per month. Most hosting companies calculate throughput by month.

TruthSeeker: What is the best database out there?

Depends on your budget and specs. Oracle is the market leader in the RDBMS sector, but do you want to spend multiple $1,000 USD when the job can be done with a $0 open source database? IMV Oracle is useful only when you do a lot of DB-centric programming, data warehousing, distributed OLTP, and the like.

TruthSeeker: Is MySQL object-oriented?

No, it is strictly relational. PostgreSQL (which is likewise open source) has some OO features.

TruthSeeker: Well, a lot of companies spend thousands of dollars more then just $250 to have a location!

Yes, that is one option I forgot to mention. "Colocation hosting" is also offered by the industry. It means hosting your own physical machine(s) with a data centre. Only for the technically gifted.

TruthSeeker: What is disk quota?

It's the size of the disk space allocated to users on a shared (virtual) server.

Cheers, Thomas

[TruthSeeker]

"Dedicated hosting" means you rent an entire web server, a physical machine, usually in a rack. "E-commerce hosting" means you rent a web server (or in most cases a slice of it) with e-commerce features, such as shopping cart, payment system, etc.
A wonder how much space e-commerce uses... <_<

I would actually prefer my own payment system...

They don't. The kB size of web pages and their contents is very easy to determine, however. Simply download the pages and look at their file sizes in the cache directory.
I actually know a faster way of doing that. You simply left click anywhere in the page. A menu shows up and at the very bottom of the menu there is "Properties". A window pops up and the size is shown, in bytes...

That method is, however, tedious and time consuming when trying to calculate the entire site's average size per page. Not only that, I still don't know the size of the pages...

I wonder if I could somehow get a hand on the log files...

30 days per month. Most hosting companies calculate throughput by month.
Oh yes! Duh! :duh:

Depends on your budget and specs. Oracle is the market leader in the RDBMS sector, but do you want to spend multiple $1,000 USD when the job can be done with a $0 open source database? IMV Oracle is useful only when you do a lot of DB-centric programming, data warehousing, distributed OLTP, and the like.
Gah! Too many acronyms! :knockout:

I will definetely need a data warehouse, though...
Is there any other DBMS that has data warehousing, no programming required and is cheap?

Btw... are there other forms of transaction processing that are better then distributed?

Yes, that is one option I forgot to mention. "Colocation hosting" is also offered by the industry. It means hosting your own physical machine(s) with a data centre. Only for the technically gifted.
Neh... that sounds way too costly to maintain and too much of a hassle...

It's the size of the disk space allocated to users on a shared (virtual) server.
I will keep that in mind...



..
So... I guess I'm searching for an option with scalability and possibly some leverage...
Huumm...

I still need to know capacity...

Dedicated servers cost between $50 and $250 USD per month, depending on specifications.
How much capacity (space/traffic) does that option have? :huh:

I still need to find out storage and traffic of E-bay, Amazon and Google...
I wonder if they post that in their annual reports... Those reports often cost some $30, so... anyways...


Well, thanks for the help Thomas! All this information is really helpful...! :)

[Thomas Knierim]

@TruthSeeker,

You can imagine a web server as an onion with a core and multiple outer layers. At the core is the physical hardware, which can be either a slice of a computer, a dedicated computer, or a whole cluster of computers. The innermost software layer is provided by the operating system. The next layer is the web server software and supplementary software services. Then comes the backend layer (such as databases) followed by the middleware layer. On top of this are one or more application platforms and/or programming languages, such as Java, PHP, Python, etc. Then comes the (optional) application server layer and finally the application layer itself. The concrete arrangement of software layers and interfaces is called the architecture in software engineering.

Architecture decisions require some experience with the relevant technologies. If you can outline your project in some more detail, I can suggest an architecture if you like.

Cheers, Thomas

PS: TruthSeeker: How much capacity (space/traffic) does that option have?

You might want to look at www.1and1.com, which is one of the biggest players in the hosting industry. Click on the "server" tab. They offer a Linux "root" server with 40GDB disk space and 1000 GB traffic for $99 per month.

[Gesiwuj]

Companies like eBay or Google have thousands of servers, costing a bit, although if your website is getting popular and you need better options such as more bandwidth, adverts will work. Obviously you only need those if your company is big, and if your company is big then it can afford it.