Blood Of The Holy Lamb

[CSwriter1]

Are you saved? How did that happen?

If God had not sacrificed His only Son to redeem our souls would anyone be saved?

From what does Jesus save us anyway? Is it the wrath of God, who threw Adam and Eve out of of Eden, and condemmed them to die, that we must be saved from?

Is it our own human nature we must be saved from? How does this work? Did God sacrficing His only Son change our human nature in anyway? Did Adam and Eve eating a fruit change our nature in anyway? Does someone want to explain how our nature was changed and changed again by the sacrifice of Jesus? If not our humanness then what, God's humor and attitude towards us? Really how does this God stuff work?

[TruthSeeker]

You are dooooooooooooomed!! Repent! For the end is nearrrrrr!!!!! :o

Just kidding. :lol:

The concept of sins that constantly need to be "forgiven" by "accepting" Jesus in your heart is a catholic concept. It has nothing to do with Jesus' teachings whatsoever.

I think salvation has more to do with an understanding of the universe and of the importance of love. It's similar to nirvana... <_<

[scameter]

If God had not sacrificed His only Son to redeem our souls would anyone be saved?

Nope.

From what does Jesus save us anyway? Is it the wrath of God, who threw Adam and Eve out of of Eden, and condemmed them to die, that we must be saved from?

Yep. That, and sin, which is the knowledge of good and evil, or perhaps better seen as duality, that we took from temptation, and so disobeying God.

Is it our own human nature we must be saved from? How does this work?

We were made with a temptation towards sin, and then after taking it from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (metaphorically perhaps) and thus making ourselves have duality and subsequently disobeying God, perhaps by creating a lack of harmony within and without, we became sinful, and Jesus then died to clear that sin from us with the utmost possible compassion and selfless love.

I think salvation has more to do with an understanding of the universe and of the importance of love. It's similar to nirvana...

I disagree. I think salvation has already been accomplished; we no longer should worry about it. We should still attempt to be as God, or perhaps this could be seen as trying to have compassion and love as Jesus does, because it is inherent in us, and we know it to be the true and best way to go; even scientists know that good is the desired path.

Did God sacrficing His only Son change our human nature in anyway?

No, we are still just as capable and leaning towards sin as ever. It is simply that our souls are now cleared of sin, and can go into communion with Jesus (compassion, love) and God (the essential embodiment of the father).

Did Adam and Eve eating a fruit change our nature in anyway?

Essentially, Adam and Eve (remember, this is mostly metaphorical, most likely) gave into temptation to gain knowledge of good and evil and to become disharmoniously with duality and to disobey God in this fashion.

Does someone want to explain how our nature was changed and changed again by the sacrifice of Jesus?

Our temptation towards sin was satisfied with the acquiring of the knowledge of good and evil/sin, and remained thus until and after Jesus's clearing of sin from our souls, but not from our bodies, which could/would also include, much to the disliking of Christian church-goers, our minds, which could very well be chemically-composed, from what the Bible describes.

[______]

What good are anyone's teachings if one builds beliefs around them?

[redraven]

This is the kind of Christianity I don't like, and I'm sorry scameter, but I must part ways with you on this one. What we have is a series of formulas from a Sunday school primer, and they don't make any sense! They're all based on each other, completely fallacious, and they invite a cult mentality by their formulation that has doomed America to the pits of hell and ignorance. Jesus did not speak in formulas, people are smart enough to speak out of their own reasoning and should not get into trouble for doing so, and this kind of formulaic repetition of Protestant soteriology really raises my ire.

If I have one more person try an apologetics book witness on me I'll scream at them "Come up with something original! Talk like a human being that is able to make rational judgments! Quit reading to me!"

I'm sorry but I can't abide this.

[Michael]

I'm sorry but I can't abide this.


As two birds to the report of a gun

[scameter]

What are beliefs if teachings are brought up around them? :)

[scameter]

You have things to be bad about but nothing to be ashamed of. So, essentially, you can feel guilt but not shame. How different are the two? <_<

[CSwriter1]

Scameter, that was an excellent explanation of Christian thinking. I have trouble comprehending it, but I almost do.

Interesting that for your explanation to work, we must be divided into a soul and a body, and the then it is our souls that are cleared, but our human experience is the same. Hum, but I don't quite understand this soul thing. Did people get born with dirty souls before Jesus? You see where I have the comprehension problem? Hum, thinking from the video "Down the Rabbit Hole", I can imagine a shift in conscousness possible, but still not an angry, punishing God. Like before humans developed frontal lobes that do this judgement kind of thinking, we would have been more like animals.

But the recent, PBS show about the women sent to Austriala when it was a penal colony, said people didn't hold the same attitude towards sex and "prostitution" we have today. There are places today where people think sex is natural and don't feel guilty about it. Natives have continued to go without clothes. What happened? Did some people get left out of knowing right from wrong? Is it possible some were born without the curse? Why do some know sex is sinful and our bodies should be hidden and not others?

I can go with the idea that we are a spirits having a human experience, but being born with dirty souls because of what Adam and Eve did, doesn't make sense to me. It isn't fair is it? Should we all have an equal chance to please God? Why would a God curse the whole of humanity, because of what he tempted Adam and Eve to do? Yes, he did, not the snake.

Later, he prevents Adam and Eve from returning to the garden. Well, if he could do that, he could have planted the tree where they would never find it, or he didn't have to plant it at all.

What good are anyone's teachings if one builds beliefs around them? Is an interesting question.

Psyche, I like the distinction between feeling regret, shame or guilt. A woman is a slut and a man is a stud.
How is it, the curse seems to work differently for males and females? I wonder what a dog feels when it knows the master is displeased? When it comes to sex, the dog doesn't feel guilt or shame, but scold a dog and it obviously feels bad.

[sonrisa]

CS-- Did people get born with dirty souls before Jesus?

--apparantly :rolleyes:


CS-- but being born wth dirty souls because of what Adam and Eve did, doesn't make sense to me

--not only that but Jesus, the New Adam, was supposed to have saved us from the Original Sin. But he didn't do a very good job becuz we are still born with dirty souls & have to get baptized to clean our souls. So what did Jesus save us from?

why would God punish Adam & Eve for eatng from the Tree of Knowledge. Did God want them to be stupid?
Does he want us to be stupid? It makes no sense.

read The Deathbird by Harlan Ellison

[Smurf]

Sonrisa, I don't think that God would want anyone to be stupid?
They say that ignorance(or non-knowledge) is bliss do they not?

[sonrisa]

Psyche, are saying that those nuns didn't beat that sin crap over your head when you were in their boarding school? Interesting.....

Smurfie, you appear to be into Harlan Ellson- read The Deathbird

[Smurf]

ok the deathbird ... I will look into it

[CSwriter1]

i do know that there were times i could have been kinder or more compassionate

there were times when i could have done better but did not have the knowledge

Ah, now you get to a concept of sin that makes sense. We are born into sin, because we are born not knowing. Socrates taught that we correct the problem of sin by becoming more conscious of the world and what we think. This belief is essential to democracy, and education to increase our consciousness is essential to democracy. This is not education for technology, but is learning increasingly complex concepts of life.

The task is so difficult, we once thought age 30 was still youth. What does anyone know of life before 30 years of age? Oh, I remember being young and thinking I knew all I needed to know. The older I get, the more I know I don't know. Paradoxical, huh?

We can memorize everything in books, but that is not equal to experience and a knowing that just can't be had without experience. Like I studied gerontology in college, and thought I was very prepared to care for my grandmother with a memory problem. Man, I didn't know shit. Facts are so meaningless, and useless, without the experience to give them meaning.

It is so easy to do the wrong thing, until we have experience and a concept of meaning. The US has become excessive in judging people good or bad, and casting blame and punishing the wrong doer. Education for technology has changed our character and spirit. I hope we return to being gentler with each other. It wasn't what Eve ate that caused sin, nor a curse from God, but we just aren't born knowing it all, and must learn as we go through life. We will make errors, on the way.

There but for the grace of God go I.

[MidnightSun]

:applause:

[______]

Originally posted by @--
It wasn't what Eve ate that caused sin, nor a curse from God...
:think: I thought that original "sin" came about from Eve not only disobeying God, but also convinced Adam to eat from the tree as well.

But what kind of God would put this "tree of knowledge" in Eden and then tell his creations--who are naturally curious beings by "design"--not to eat from it? <_<

This image of "God" looks cruel who takes pleasure in seeing man fight temptation, and then desires to punish man for giving into the temptation when--being "all knowing"--he knew that that's what would happen all along. We must have a pretty evil creator... :(