Buddhism And Eating Meat

[fun_boyz]

Hi everybody,

This a very serious contradiction in Budhist Meta Philosophy and common sense.

The Budha advocated compassion to all living creatures and so on and so forth.

But now I find that Budhists through out the world from Sri Lanka to China happily consum Meat.

Even the highest spiritual leader The Dalai Lama eats Meat....

Will somebody more enlightened that me please show me the light.

Iam bewildered, stunned, shocked about this.

A response to my personal mail id would be appreciated: fun_boyz2001@yahoo.com

[TruthSeeker]

So? What are you advocating? Vegetarianism?
Did you know vegetables are alive too!? <_<
So when you eat a vegetable, you are not being compassionate? I guess the only way, then, is to die of starvation?

[scameter]

Just because they eat meat or plants doesn't mean they contradict their philosophy. The reason they eat is because they must to survive, and even then they eat as little as possible in order to spare everything alive they can, and they usually do eat meat; I personally have never heard of a buddhist eating meat, but I haven't heard everything.

[Thomas Knierim]

Many Buddhist sanghas prefer a vegetarian diet, especially in the Mahayana branch. Vegetarianism in the Buddhist world is especially associated with Kuan Yin, the female bodhisattva. However, the Buddha did not appear to have prescribed vegetarianism. Therefore many branches of Buddhism do not enforce vegetarianism by rule, and thus meat-eating Buddhists are common.

What concerns the compassion to all living creatures, Buddhists are not allowed to kill, and hence, they are not allowed to hunt. This means they can only eat meat of it being offered to them (monks) or if they buy it (householders). They are also encouraged to abstain from excessive eating which -I suppose- includes the daily steak. The main dilemma was already pointed out by Truthseeker. It is basically impossible to exist for one life form to exist without consuming or killing other life forms.

Cheers, Thomas

[TruthSeeker]

Well, even the monks who are just receiving food needs someone else to kill the other forms of life. And we do it all the time ourselves, too. Which one of us kills to eat?

Regardless, why would it be bad to kill to eat? In the contrary, it's a sacred act. That's the only "good" sacrifice there is. The animals are not guilty of killing to eat. The sharks are not "evil" because they are hungry. The lions are not "evil" because they are hungry. Hunters, on the other hand, are "evil" when they kill for sport and put heads on their walls, or kill elephants to get some of their bones and leave them behind to rot. That's sad and disrespectful. That's "uncivilized". Animals are "civilized". We often consider them "evil" because they kill other animals. That's pure hypocrisy.

There's no "evil" in killing to live. Only when it's a waste, then it is "evil".

On a second note, I also do not agree with practices in the current systems which produce meat for us when those systems abuse the cattle. <_<

[scameter]

I agree entirely truthseeker, which is expressly why animals who kill for food aren't evil, but when people kill in extreme excess and either do not eat all of it, or simply kill with no intentions for food, are commiting an evil act.

[UtopianGrade]

I think as long as we feel greatful that the animal we are consuming has given up it's life (against it's will) for our sakes and not viewing it simply as a peice of meat

P.S. I think it is reprehensible to eat luxury meats such as Veal or Prawns.
Shrimp/prawns esp. considering prawns are killed by the dozens for one meal. :blink:

[TruthSeeker]

Nature is smarter then that, UtopianGrade. For every whale in the planet, there are 10,000 shrimps :lol:

[UtopianGrade]

That is true
But for our one planet their are 7 + billion humans
It hasnt proved to be an optimal balance

[scameter]

Indeed, especially when we take far more than is necessary, whereas other animals only take enough.

[TruthSeeker]

Indeed... <_<
*sips tea*

[namtso]

Scientists are already working on the method to grow real beef in the lab for food. A great added benefit is that it could completely eliminate fears of pathogens or mad cow disease, consuming antibiotics and hormones etc. If we're lucky, this will eventually become a non-issue and we will only have cows as pets or living lawn mowers and not for anything else. I would expect if the scientists can do it for meat they certainly ought to be able to do it for milk too which would also eliminate the consumption of antibiotics and hormones that are normally found in milk. So long as it's affordable I guess.

[namtso]

Just because they eat meat or plants doesn't mean they contradict their philosophy. The reason they eat is because they must to survive, and even then they eat as little as possible in order to spare everything alive they can, and they usually do eat meat; I personally have never heard of a buddhist eating meat, but I haven't heard everything.
the dalai lama has been known to eat meat

The Dalai Lama does eat some meat about every other day. I don't know exactly how much, but he eats a lot of different vegetables too (I've seen an actual video clip somewhere, can't remember exactly where) so I'd imagine that the actual amount of meat would not make up a large part of a meal for him. Of course that doesn't negate the issue. He contracted Hepatitis in 1959 when he came over the Himalayas to escape Tibet. Because of this fact, his personal physician has told the Dalai Lama that it's important that he eat some meat to stay healthy. Monks, including HHDL, also wear leather shoes which I figure might be something they could re-visit. I however personally have no room to talk in that regard ... Still, a different spin on that might be that the reality is that animals are being used for food and to honor their "sacrifice" I guess, we should try to use every bit of their matter which would include the leather. It reminds me of some of the American Indian tribes that have great respect for the herd. They honor the animal that they catch for food and one way they do that is to use every last bit of the animal for all of their needs. No waste. And they only killed what they needed to survive. No more.

Also, for Tibetan Buddhist Monks and Nuns, they must accept any food given to them without refusal unless they are ill and a particular food would make their illness worse. However if a person or family tells the Monk/Nun that they are going to cook a meal that includes meat, the Monk or Nun must refuse to come to that meal. In the same way, a Monk or Nun must not go to the home of anyone where they know in advance that there is going to be meat eaten at that meal. I'm pretty sure that is how it works, at least for Tibetan Buddhists.

[scameter]

I eat meat because I am not the one killing it. In this country, people are going to eat meat, and thus businesses are going to kill animals to make them into meat for eating. And so, if I do not eat meat, either someone else will, or it will go to waste. If I lived in a country where meat was not eaten, I would most likely not eat it. But, I am not the murderer, so I do not see why the animal that has already been killed should go to waste.

[namtso]

I've heard that in America we eat a lot more meat than our body really needs. Should eat more vegetables, less meat. If drive throughs offered a lot more healthy food that still tasted great, I can tell you I would eat it for sure (yes, I'm lazy). Years ago I was really hooked on Falafel sandwiches with Tahini sauce. I worked in a restaurant then and I made the stuff. It's deep fried but it was still pretty good. I don't think most of America has even begun to really do noodles well yet, at least where I've lived. I do like the noodles at Panda Express though. I've seen the stuff prepared in India on a DVD I've got and they make the noodles from scratch, cook them, throw them on a big table and start mixing in vegetables like leeks, onion, green onion, some other vegetables I think and I think soy sauce or something similar but it looked pretty dang good. We could really make a huge shift in the U.S. if entrepreneurs started taking more chances with specialty foods. People are naturally going to try new stuff out so long as the restaurant looks clean and well run. I've not seen much like that where I live anyway but I don't live real close to a big city. Sort of close, but not convenient. And I've also heard that an acre of land can produce a lot more volume of vegetables than it can produce beef by feeding cattle on that acre of land. So there's a direct ecological benefit too.

[scameter]

Much of the reason people eat meat is that, unknown to many people, it is fat, not sugar necessarily, that gives flavour to food; and, because meat has much more fat than do things like vegetables and breads, they are more tastey, and thus are eaten more. If you notice, as an example of this, in things that are fat free or low fat, they have alot more sugar than the regular, meant to compensate for the lack of flavour from fat.

[Jampa]

The question about eating meat or not is for me very easy to answer: do I need this meat (which implies all those suffering for the animals) to survive? If yes, then eat it. If no, then try to avoid it. Animal killing to eat have no choice; we have.
As regards with the vegetables, aalthought they are energy (what is not energy actually?) but have no consciousness. They are not "animated", they cannot move. And on top of that, they have no nervous system, so they cannot feel suffering unlike animals....
Have a good vegeterian meal!

[scameter]

I'm a breadatarian. :D

[namtso]

The question about eating meat or not is for me very easy to answer: do I need this meat (which implies all those suffering for the animals) to survive? If yes, then eat it. If no, then try to avoid it. Animal killing to eat have no choice; we have.
As regards with the vegetables, aalthought they are energy (what is not energy actually?) but have no consciousness. They are not "animated", they cannot move. And on top of that, they have no nervous system, so they cannot feel suffering unlike animals....
Have a good vegeterian meal!

Not to be a drag but plants do exhibit characteristics that sort of do appear to be a "consciousness" of sorts. A seed is able to send it's stem upward out of the ground towards the sun. The roots "explore" for sources of water in the soil. And there have been experiments where electronic devices were hooked up to plants and readings were taken for various events, even for playing different types of music. Unless those results have since been invalidated, it seems as if the plants do react to stimuli, even that which has no direct obvious part to play for their growth and survival. Human beings are part of the food chain, a reality of our existence regardless of the moral or spiritual issues related to that. That realization can seem a bit brutal to some. I've also heard somewhere that certain types of protein or amino acids that are only found in beef (L-carnatine?) are essential to optimal health for human beings. I've not looked that one up recently though. Maybe a vegetarian or vegan reading this thread would know more about it. Maybe there's a good vegetarian substitute for it now.

[Jampa]

Everything is energy. Plants are energy as well. So of course, energy interact with its environment, and environment acts on energy. So no surprise that plants react to external stimuli. But reaction is not will. Only sentient being can move around, decide to stay or go, and for that they need nervous system, even in a very basic form. Suffering is "supported" by the nervous system, which no vegetable possesses. That's why I think that a vegetable cannot be killed, unlike a being with a consciousness... According to the buddhist cosmology, there are 6 realms of existence in which consciousnesses can get reincarnated. Vegetable are not part of this 6 realms. For me, all this make sense... But I'm just a simple searcher who do not pretend to know eerything!
As regards to essential elements find only in meat, that's may be true, but according to my own experience (30 years of strict vegetarianism), I cannot support that argument. I'm never sick (I have no health insurance), and I feel absolutely no lack of nutritional element (may be it will come later...???) In India, they are traditionally vegetarian, and almost 500 millions of indians are vegetarian. I never heard of any problem with that....
To be vegetarian is a choice of life, a way to be as less a burden as possible with the environment, and to avoid being a cause for the suffering of our animal brother (according to buddhism, animals can be reincarnated in humans, and vice-versa. Its only a matter of time...)
Big hugs to all, even to meat eaters!

[scameter]

I agree with jampa here. Seeds grow their stems towards the sun, just as plants' stems aim for the sun, because they are energetically and chemically designed to do so, for their growth. A plant could never choose to not aim for the sun; and yet people can choose to not do something healthy for them, or to do something specifically unhealthy for them.

[namtso]

I do have to cede the point. I guess maybe I could save face a little by stating that they are alive. Plants are reactive to stimuli, heliotropism for example. Do they still not have even a basic form of nervous system? I'm way too long out of high school! Still, to harvest and eat plants is still in a sense taking a life or lives. I honestly have no idea why we would distinguish between the consciousness of a plant and the consciousness of a chicken for instance. Granted, chickens do seem to be able to register pain and try to avoid it. I guess when we start killing things that have a brain, eyes and a mouth, it reminds us a lot more of ourselves? I'm probably just rationalizing since I'm still a committed omnivore.

I was not aware of the buddhist cosmological 6 realms of existence. I'll have to study up on that, thanks.

[Jampa]

Yes, spirulina is a great way to get protein and rare vitamins. Highly commendable indeed! I did not heard about this yeat, thanks for the trick!

[scameter]

"After battle, I come to this place of my ancestors, and I remember... we are dying. Life in every breath, every cup of tea, every life we take. The way of the warrior. That is, Bushido." Katsumoto, the movie The Last Samurai

[______]

:lol: I am Buddhist. I love meat. All about personal choices.

[scameter]

And, I guess, in Buddhism, like in Catholicism, if you do make the personal choice to eat meat, which would essentially be killing (I assume, to Buddhism), you could just create good karma to liberate the bad, as Catholics go to the confessional to be cleared of sin.

[Jampa]

I am Buddhist. I love meat. All about personal choices...
I am Buddhist. I hate Bush, I kill him. All about personal choices...

Just joking soldier, please don't mind....

[namtso]

I am Buddhist. I love meat. All about personal choices...
I am Buddhist. I hate Bush, I kill him. All about personal choices...

Just joking soldier, please don't mind.... - Jampa

Place your hands on the desk, look straight ahead and don't move. The boys in black are on the way. And spit out that chewing gum. Hope you like water.

Just joking

[Starry_Canopy]

And, I guess, in Buddhism, like in Catholicism, if you do make the personal choice to eat meat, which would essentially be killing (I assume, to Buddhism), you could just create good karma to liberate the bad, as Catholics go to the confessional to be cleared of sin.

Seems right to me; if sin is defined as that which takes us further away from Nirvana and virtue (for want of a better word, meaning here the opposite of sin) that which takes us closer to Nirvana by removing the effects of sins.

[______]

...if you do make the personal choice to eat meat, which would essentially be killing (I assume, to Buddhism)...
wait.... :think: Eating meat means that the animal has already died (hopefully if you're eating it! :lol: ), right?

How can this be considered killing? You cannot kill what is already dead. Just a thought.

[scameter]

How can this be considered killing? You cannot kill what is already dead. Just a thought.

I meant that to Buddhism, if you eat meat, it is like you are killing, or at least promoting killing, because as you say the meat must be dead.

[scameter]

That's what I've been saying. People want meat, so capitalistic America makes it.

[Jampa]

Another point: buddhists say that we exist since beginingless time. We have had all possible imaginable relations with all other sentient beings, in unnumerable forms. This means that we have been the mother all all, and that each sentient being has been our mother so many time in the infinite past.
So please enjoy eating your mother and your children!
Hugs

[Jampa]

Place your hands on the desk, look straight ahead and don't move. The boys in black are on the way. And spit out that chewing gum. Hope you like water.

I prefer wine, Soldier. So pass the word!

[______]

Okay, I can see how you can look at this as "Hey! You're eating your mother/father/brother/sister/friend!"

I prefer to thank the animal for it's death, thank every possible person involved in getting it to my mouth, and thank everthing it's eaten to stay healthy enough to provide quality meat. I am thankful for meat.

"If animals weren't meant to be eaten, why are they made of meat?" -a radio commercial I heard once. :lol:

[namtso]

for those concerned with missing nutitional elements in a vegetarian diet

nutritional yeast

particularly red star nutitional yeast

loaded with protein b vitamins and other stuff

all my cats ate it and one lived to age 17 another to age 15

also spirulina is a 'superfood' that contains everything you need
- psyche

How much preparation would go into eating these foods? I've seen juice bars that make smoothies etc. with spirulina in them. Is that primarily what you are talking about or is this something that would require actually cooking something in the kitchen. This is shameless of me since I was a line cook (I prefer "food mechanic") for over 9 years.



People want meat, so capitalistic America makes it. - scameter
Right, but so does pretty much every other nation and hamlet on the planet, yes?

[Jampa]

Yep Soldier, well done! I think if you need to eat meat for whatever reason, this is the good way to do it. To be thankful for all the creature involved in the pleasure you have eating meat.

"If animals weren't meant to be eaten, why are they made of meat?" -a radio commercial I heard once

Sorry to be so rude, but this statement is really stupid! Aren't we made of meat? So why don't you eat fresh tender human baby meat?

:think:

Hugs

[______]

:lol: Not rude at all! I'm not too fond of it myself, but I couldn't stop myself from posting it. It popped into my head just reading the topic title. :lol:

[Jampa]

I see the king of guy you are.... Provocator... I love it!
;)

[______]

Only in debate and thought. ;)