The Consequences Of Nirvana

[TruthSeeker]

I was wondering the other day...

I realize that I lack many desiresw. For instance, I used to desire a girlfriend and sex. But now that I accomplished that, I simply don't feel any need for that.

Also, I don't feel things as I used to feel anymore. For example, I don't feel anxiety when I'm not afraid. I don't feel angry when I'm not annoyed by something. And I don't really feel happy when something happens (or doesn't happen) that I wasn't desiring in the first place! So I came to this quite amazing realization that my lack of feelings is a general evidence that indicates to me that I'm getting quite close to Nirvana!

But still, I need to let things happen. It's not always that way. Specially because a child comes with a lot of responsibility, so I desire to feed my child, for example. And I also desire for the gap between the poor and the rich to disappear. Altough I'm not sure that counts...

Anyways... so I wonder what you guys think about that. Has anyone ever experienced this same thing? B)

Truth :tao:

[lenin32]

I used to be a neurotic mess. My father was a drug dealer, and he taught me the "family business." After i got caught, and went through a D & A program, I started practicing meditation. Over the past two years I have gone from neurosis, to calm and collected.

Im not exactly sure how to respond to your question, because (I could be wrong) it seems to me that you believe this "loss of feelings" to be a negative. A "loss of feelings" indicates one becoming more balanced, in my opinion. Its not like they have been stolen from you, you just dont need them anymore. That is a good thing. :)

[sahyo]

I don't feel anxiety when I'm not afraid. I don't feel angry when I'm not annoyed by something. And I don't really feel happy when something happens (or doesn't happen) that I wasn't desiring in the first place! So I came to this quite amazing realization that my lack of feelings is a general evidence that indicates to me that I'm getting quite close to Nirvana!



This world is burning.
Afflicted by contact,
it calls disease a "self."
By whatever it construes [things],
that's always otherwise.
Becoming otherwise,
the world is
held by becoming
afflicted by becoming
and yet delights
in that very becoming.
Where there's delight,
there is fear.
What one fears
is stressful.
This holy life is lived
for the abandoning of becoming.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta...ana/ud3-10.html (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/khuddaka/udana/ud3-10.html)

[locomotive]

I don't think enlightenment is dependend on stopping all phenomena. If something can occur spontaniously then emotions can to only the way you react to them is different.

[sahyo]

what are fearing ?

[TruthSeeker]

I used to be a neurotic mess. My father was a drug dealer, and he taught me the "family business."
Did you learn anything positive from that experience?

After i got caught, and went through a D & A program, I started practicing meditation. Over the past two years I have gone from neurosis, to calm and collected.

Im not exactly sure how to respond to your question, because (I could be wrong) it seems to me that you believe this "loss of feelings" to be a negative. A "loss of feelings" indicates one becoming more balanced, in my opinion. Its not like they have been stolen from you, you just dont need them anymore. That is a good thing.
I'm neutral towards the loss of feelings. :lol:
That is... I have no feelings towards that... :rofl:

[lenin32]

I learned not to get caught. :D
No seriously, I am just a smoker now, no more dealing for me

[locomotive]

"what are fearing ?"

what? who? huh?

[sahyo]

what? who? huh?




If something can occur spontaniously then emotions can to only the way you react to them is different.

[locomotive]

yeah but what are you asking or.. saying?

[sahyo]

:)


If something can occur spontaniously then emotions can to only the way you react to them is different.



fearing...imagining as though can separate reacting-emotions?

[MidnightSun]

I never understand what asheera wants to say :/

If u lack of desires that doesnt mean u lack of emotions. U simply lack of those emotions caused by desires. I dont think buddha became a meanie after he reached nirvana :P

[locomotive]

not understanding ?

let me formulate what I said differently and maybe you can get something out of it.
emotions or whatever phenomena will still happen only you behave differently when you are enlightend.

[lenin32]

Since enlightenment doesnt change the bodys biochemistry, obviously, it is logical to argue that the emotions are still occuring (since emotions are chemically produced) but the consiousness responds to them much differently.
Would anyone agree?

[Oli]

That last point seems to make most sense, that our minds simply change to how we react to emotions, or our changed state of mind interprets/responds to the 'chemicals' differently.

[TruthSeeker]

Well, but that hasn't been my experience with desirelessness.

For example, I was in the bus this morning going to my accounting exam...
So instead of thinking about the exam and worrying, I completely let go of everything. I just didn't care anymore about it. Out of a sudden, I started to look around and I felt as though I had just woken up from a loooooong dream. I looked to people around and they were all living. They looked around, most of them were just looking at the street or just sitting there and waiting. I started to see their lives and see them as children. Their different personalities clearly stood out, regardless of what they were doing. Suddenly, everyone seemed nice, I was just feeling compassion for everyone. Even this smelly weird guy that had sat by me earlier seemed nice. I could simply stand out of the whole moment and look at the world from an objective point of vikew. This is precesily how it felt.

Well, anyways... that's basically what happened... <_<

[TruthSeeker]

Huuummm....

So far, I'm insane.... :lol:
:rofl:

[Smurf]

Yeah didn't know if the consequences would be that you would turn insane or if Truthseeker were insane... :P

initially I thought no because feelings do not need desires to exist, they can be the consequences of desires but also consequences of other things too like needs such as eating... wanting and needing are two different things

[TruthSeeker]

they can be the consequences of desires but also consequences of other things too like needs such as eating... wanting and needing are two different things
That's another kind of "feeling". There's a huger difference between feeling sad and feeling hungry! :o

And it seems to me that's the kind of feeling people have in mind.... <_<

[Smurf]

lol definately
feeling sad and eating :P

ok I say that feelings can come from needs as well as desires

[lenin32]

But are feelings really neccesary to exist in happiness anyway?

[lenin32]

You are not insane truthseeker. Just let go of the ego, and go with the flow.

[TruthSeeker]

But are feelings really neccesary to exist in happiness anyway?
Happiness is a feeling! LOL!!! :lol:

You are not insane truthseeker. Just let go of the ego, and go with the flow.
Well, I'm sorry, but weed is pretty expensive those days.... :D :rofl:

[lenin32]

Of course happiness is an emotion :duh: . I should have said 'peace'.

[TruthSeeker]

Peace is not an emotion?

[scameter]

I disagree truthseeker. I think happiness is felt, thought about and even lived for, but it is not a feeling it's self, nor an emotion. It is a state of being, even to a spiritual extent. For instance, when I was going to therapy, they told me that no amount of therapy or medical psychological treatment could grant me happiness. That is something I have to want.

[MidnightSun]

Peace is not an emotion?

Peace is not an emotion. Peace is condition. Feeling peacfully is an emotion.

[lenin32]

But like scameter said, it can be argued that happiness is also not an emotion. But isnt every 'emotion' simply a state of being? Isnt it the thoughts that go along with the state which we use to categorize. So then it isnt the loss of feelings that one feels when one achieves nirvana. It is the loss of those thoughts. Is it possible?

[TruthSeeker]

I disagree truthseeker.
What!?!? How dare you!!!! :boxing:

I think happiness is felt, thought about and even lived for, but it is not a feeling it's self, nor an emotion. It is a state of being, even to a spiritual extent.
I agree it's a state of being. But it's also a feeling, because sometimes I feel happy!

For instance, when I was going to therapy, they told me that no amount of therapy or medical psychological treatment could grant me happiness. That is something I have to want.
Well, I wouldn't say you have to want it... you have to live it... let go the pursuit of it....

[TruthSeeker]

But like scameter said, it can be argued that happiness is also not an emotion. But isnt every 'emotion' simply a state of being? Isnt it the thoughts that go along with the state which we use to categorize. So then it isnt the loss of feelings that one feels when one achieves nirvana. It is the loss of those thoughts. Is it possible?
Very good point! :thumbsup:
I personally think that those thoughts causes these feelings. So if you elminate the throughts, those feelings also go. Abstract feelings, that is...


We should also clearly define two kinds of feelings for the sake of this discussion:
1) Physical feelings: like something poking your skin
2) Abstract feeling: something like happiness or fear...

[TruthSeeker]

Peace is not an emotion. Peace is condition. Feeling peacfully is an emotion.
Yes, precisely.

[lenin32]

So that is why when one quiets his mind, emotions are reduced in intensity and frequency?

[TruthSeeker]

Yes. You never thought about that? :o

That's a big part of what the thread is about. You silence your mind, you find peace, and you don't feel emotions anymore! At least not strong ones... ;)

[lenin32]

Of course I thought about it. I just wanted to see if that is also your opinion. Im sorry. Sometimes I leave my thoughts unfinished, since I only have a minture or two to come up with something. The only place I have access to a computer is in school.