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TruthSeeker
2nd April 2006, 10:46 AM
I have always seen the similarities between Taoism and Star Wars... :)

http://www.exn.ca/starwars/taoism.cfm

"A key principle in becoming a master Taoist, is wu-wei, sometimes translated as creative inaction. "It literally means getting things done without doing anything," says Smith. But perhaps it's better described as an action that is so well in accordance with things, that there is no evidence of the action. To the Taoist, any deliberate intervention in the natural order of things will eventually turn into the opposite of what was intended and result in failure. And that is a common theme in Star Wars, says Smith.

Take the scene from the first Star Wars movie, where Obi-wan Kenobi is teaching Luke Skywalker the "ways of the Force" on Han Solo's Millennium Falcon. Luke is trying hard to avoid laser blasts from a remote, but fails miserably. When Obi-wan Kenobi places a blaster helmet on his head so he can't see, he easily deflects the remote's laser blasts. "

Wu wei all the way! :rofl:


http://www.humanicspub.com/bookhtms/taostarwars.htm
http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display.la...=Search&image=1 (http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display.lasso?-KeyValue=32918&-Token.Action=Search&image=1)

I've also found this, which is quite interesting...
"Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hatred leads to power.
Power leads to victory.
Let your anger flow through you.
Your hate will make you strong.
True power is only achieved through
testing the limits of one's anger,
passing through unscathed.
Rage channeled through anger is unstoppable.
The dark side of the force
offers unimaginable power.
The dark side is stronger than the light.
The weak deserve their fate.

SITH CODE
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

A quote from a sith
"The Jedi would have you believe that peace is a desirable goal. That peace of the spirit is the way the Force is mastered, that a lack of conflict betters man. We know different. It is our passion... our hate and our desires... that fuels the Force. It is conflict that improves the lot of civilization and single being both. Conflict forces one to better oneself. It forces change, growth, adaption... evolution... or death. These are not our laws, but the universe's. Without conflict you have only stagnation.
What fuels your power with the Force but your passion? The stronger, darker emotions. Anger, hatred, fear... these passions empower us. Love is more dangerous than all those things. Love leads to anger and hatred more often than not... but is also leads to mercy, which is far worse. The Force gives us all power, even the Jedi. It is our mastery of our passion that gives us the strength they lack.
What keeps even the most rudimentary creature alive? Fear to run, anger to fight... without it a creature would most surely die. We are far more than them, but in some ways we are little different. To think us creatures beyond the need of simple passions is a delusion. It is our goal to be stronger, to achieve our potentials and not rest upon our laurels. We are the seekers, not the shepherds.
The stronger you become in the Force, the more power you will achieve. But always must you fight for your power. Without strife, your victory has no meaning. Without strife, you do not advance. Without strife, there is only stagnation.
How many victories can you imagine? Peaceful victory? Victory by sacrifice? A truce, an achievement? Unless the victory is achieved by demonstrating that your power is superior, it is only an illusion. Temporary at best. We seek more.
The chains represent our restrictions, both those placed upon us and those we place upon ourselves. Ultimately the goal of any Sith is to free herself from such restrictions. In a way, it is so we may do whatever we wish... but it is much more than that. One who has freed themselves from all restrictions has reached perfection. Their potential fulfilled. Perfect strength, perfect power, perfect destiny. That is our ideal, at any rate. It is said in Sith legend that the Sith'ari... perfect being... will one day lead us. The legends say the Sith'ari will destroy us... and make us stronger than ever. But perhaps that is just a legend. Perfection is... a goal, I think, rather than a state of being. The Jedi would argue that, no doubt.
The Force is our servant and our master. Our teacher and our companion. A weapon and a tool. Know it and you know the universe. Master it and you master the universe. Strive for perfection and the Force shall reward you." "
The Dark Side
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=...150#post1019150 (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=1019150#post1019150)

Smurf
2nd April 2006, 01:00 PM
Wu wei all the way!

aww geez :lol:

I agree with you Truthseeker, The whole fact that to be a good Jedi you must let the "force" guide you, same as the principle of the Way

mmm yes, I think that many people have been close to being Taoists but not actually knowing it?

scameter
2nd April 2006, 02:50 PM
Wow, you're my hero truthseeker. :P I too found that site a long time ago, as well as did I request online a copy of The Tao of Star Wars, a small book discussing Taoism, Star Wars, and their relations. I think they are entirely related, and by incorporating Zen Buddhism into the Jedi beliefs, and incorporating many Eastern and Western "Closed Fist/Yang" idealologies into the Sith, an entire view can definitely be attained, and with much interest into the various systems of connections and paths in and between the two Force philosophies of Star Wars. And, mythology is/was also an extreme part of Lucas's amazing story, and helps much in discussing the two philosophies. The book "The Power of Myth", a Star Wars book, is excellent in discussing this matter. :)

rich
4th April 2006, 01:19 AM
The Force Be With You.

The Lord Be With You.

Regardless of the organized or unorganized religion saying those words, the meaning of these words are very similar.

The Force, The Lord, God, are all synonymous in their meanings, and whatever label is given, it does not make sense for any to fight religious wars over.

But there are many who will disagree with what was written above.

scameter
4th April 2006, 03:04 AM
Except that the Force is impersonal, God is not.

rich
4th April 2006, 04:52 AM
Except that the Force is impersonal, God is not.

Personal or Impersonal, The Force, The Lord and God, are all a matter of one's
interpretation, and whom is to say that anyone is right or wrong ?

scameter
4th April 2006, 05:45 AM
The Force is a much broader entity than God, or at least, how each is seen. Of course there are many, many interpretations of each, but because the Force is palpable, it has more concreteness of definition.

Smurf
4th April 2006, 08:20 AM
yeah i agree Scam, God... is more personal, and people tend to interpret it as thus... but the force is more like the "holy spirit"

scameter
4th April 2006, 10:33 AM
Definitely.

rich
4th April 2006, 11:46 PM
In The Christian tradition, God, has 3 persons, otherwise known as the Trinity.
They are, God The Father, (Creator), God The Son,(Jesus Christ/Redeemer) and God The Holy Spirit (The Great Paraclete, Comforter of the poor).

There are other traditions, each one uniquely different. Each person has the right to choose whatever tradition makes them feel most comfortable.

Many troubles are caused when some people fail to realize the basic rights of each person, regardless of their tradition.

TruthSeeker
5th April 2006, 01:31 AM
It's interesting how I started with Taoism and Star Wars, and you quickly linked it to Christianism as well... :)

I, myself, am both a Christian and a Taoist. So the fact that you made the connection yourselves is quite impressive to me (even because most people don't).

"May the Force be with you
May the Lord be with you"

Yes, they are very similar. But you can even write a book reconciling those two sentences.
For instance, as it was mentioned, the "Force" is more like the Holy Spirit in its nature. But even more then the Holy Spirit, the Force has more of a parallel with Faith. The curious thing is that when you study Faith in depth and make the connections you realize that Faith is actually integrity. Because when you have integrity, you basically have faith in yourself, which enables you to do whatever you set your mind to. With integrity, you are unshaken. Similarly, the "Lord" or more accurately, God, is a part of you which is unshaken. It is the part of you which integrity "comes from". And that's how you link the "Force" to the "Lord".

On a side note, the word "Lord" is slightly innacurate. The innacuracy is caused by the beliefs of the systems which translated the Bible from Hebrew and Greek to English. The innacuracy is cause by a connection between a simbol of authority of the medieval times (the times when the King James version was conceived). At those times, the system in place was still feudalism. The landlords of the time were the kings, who controlled the cities. Because of the barbarians everywhere, people dependent on the kings to be protected. They would pay a tax to the king so that they could live within the walls of the king's land. Because of that protection, the king was often politely called the "lord". This is why in the Bible, the words "lord" and "king" are widely used as a representation of God and Jesus. It's because of an analogy between the protective figure of God and the protective figure of the king, the lord.

It was at those times that the present systems were also conceived. For example, the word "real estate" is a variation of "royal estate", which can be translated as "the king's land". The word landlord is a remanent of the usage of "lord" to represent the person who owns the land taht is rented. Oh, and at those times, the kings only rented the land, and it was up to the peasants to build their houses. Which is why it is landlord instead of houselord. LOL! :lol:

rich
5th April 2006, 05:03 AM
The word,Lord, besides being used as a title for Jesus, has also been

used as a title for Krishna and Buddha. I do not know if it has been used as a

title for other religious leaders like Confuscious, Mohammud, Tao and

others, though it may have been used. I am not sure that if the English

translations is responsible for it used as a symbol of authority in that

connotation. .

scameter
5th April 2006, 05:55 AM
Tao wasn't a religious leader.

scameter
6th April 2006, 06:37 AM
lao tzu then...in eastern thought the term master is often used and it means more achievement than what we call a master's degree...it mean total transcendental 'knowing' or the absolulte mastery of the adept (noun)...

Actually, in a certain sense "master" isn't about achievement, especially in Taoism; it's really more about unlearning what you have learned and returning to naturality. "Tzu" means child just as much as it means master. And, Lao Tzu may not even have existed; it is also speculated that the Tao Te Ching could've been written by many people, not just one.

scam i just recently was reading on the very strong connection of taoism and the I Ching...also i practice by chance or inclination the doing of nothing that somehow bears fruit...which is very taoist...

Umm yes indeed, they are connected, and that practice is Taoist, but doing nothing isn't; wu wei in Taoism isn't doing nothing, it's not apathy. It's doing without effort, without thought; relying on natural instincts and intuition to allow your actions to be in perfect harmony and perfection of balance with nature, transcending the will and ego of the individual's conceptuality.

scameter
6th April 2006, 06:51 AM
Perhaps the Tao Te Ching was written by many people, that is merely a speculation; it may have only been Lao Tzu as the legend relates.

scameter
6th April 2006, 07:15 AM
I agree.

Smurf
6th April 2006, 08:18 AM
perhaps Lao Tzu wrote it, but he interpreted the collective thoughts of many into it, that he put not only his own thoughts into it?

scameter
6th April 2006, 10:37 AM
Perhaps. The legend is that he was retreating from China that's society he thought was bad to go into the mountains riding a...donkey, I believe, and a student came to him and asked him to write down his teachings, which Lao Tzu did in a poetic booklet. It's a really pretty interesting legend.

TruthSeeker
6th April 2006, 11:22 AM
Yeeeeh!!! Let's all ignore the Tao Thread in the Formal Debates section!
Sorry. I'm just in a bad mood today...

scameter
6th April 2006, 11:46 AM
:P I'm not ignoring it, just haven't got to it yet. Wouldn't you rather me think about it first, rather than post on it impulsively? :)

TruthSeeker
6th April 2006, 12:09 PM
No! Be impulsive and say all kinds of meaningless bable! :wacko: :silly:

scameter
6th April 2006, 12:20 PM
Ok. B) :D