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View Full Version : Does One Have To Be Religious To Be Christian?


thintheherd
19th March 2006, 04:28 PM
Many people believe that one must go to church weekly in order to be a good Christian. This is because the churches tell us that we must in order to be saved and get to heaven. I know of people who believe that because one doesn't attend church, they have no right to call themselves Christian. I strongly disagree with this because Jesus did not have a "church" of any particular faith, he walked with all the people and spoke wherever he happened to be. At no point did he say that you have to be Catholic or Mormon or Baptist or any of the other organized religions in order to get in good with his father. He simply wanted people to live by compassion, honesty, hard work, moral values and personal integrity. he did however say that "the Kingdom of God is within you and all around you." :thumbsup: How can any organized religion make the claim that they are the way, the truth and the light when they all have a different opinion on what that way is and will go to great measures to have their flocks believe that their way is the only way and that any other line of thinking will forever damn them. How many holy wars have been started in the name of God? How many people were killed, (sanctioned by the church), in the name of God? God wouldn't condone murder. He created life, he gave NO ONE the right to take it, especially in his name. He is the one who gives and takes life. No one else should have that right and then say they are doing it in the name of their God. :( Churches pass judgement all the time on each other. (judgement being a sin), The Mormons think the Catholics are full of crap, who think the Protestants are full of crap who think the Jehova's Witnesses are full of crap and the list goes on and on. (just used those 4 as an example, however all churches are guilty of this in my opinion). I have attended many different churches over the years on my journey through life to see if there was any particular faith that took hold on me and to learn what I could about different religions and views. I have attended the Mormon, the Catholic, the Anglican, the United, the Unitarian, The Pentecostal, the Baptist and the Protestant churches. they all said something different but the one thing they all seemed to agree on was money ....... I find it offensive that when you walk into a church, there is a plate at the entrance for donations. (before you've even taken off your jacket, they are looking for money), then someone comes around a little later with another plate and collects money from you. Some churches require that you sign a binding legal agreement (man's law, not God's) that says you will tithe a certain percent of your yearly income to the church. When I asked "what would happen if that monthly tithe meant that you would have to give up something else like food or car insurance because you couldn't afford to do it all, or if you were having a tough month and needed to tithe a smaller amount? I was told "isn't the word of God more important than any earthly things?" Jesus never charged people or made them sign a binding agreement that they would hand over their money to him, in order for him to speak with them. A large percentage of the money collected is never seen by those who truly need it anyway. It is eaten up in "church expenses and administration". Money is the root of all evil, it was invented by man, not God, so therefore why is it neccessary to give money, (something created by man), to facilitate the word of God? I was told by an Anglican follower that I should immediately pull my son out of football because Satan created sports so that children couldn't go to church on Sundays and learn the word of God, because games are often scheduled on Sundays. He never mentioned the possibility that the games are on Sundays because that makes the most sense for children who attend school during the week and their parents who work all week. Besides, why does it have to be Sunday that we worship Christ? :huh: Why can't it be every day of our lives that we honor him by being respectful, decent human beings and giving thanks for what he has given us ? The hypocrisy runs amok in the churches as well. One need only to look at the Catholic church and the scandals there, or the born again Christians and their "Ministries of God" and the scandals there or the Mormon church and their views on polygamy, or any church for that matter, that has an ulterior agenda... to get your money and create intolerance towards those who don't agree with them. the Catholic Church has refused to acknowledge the ancient scrolls believed to be the true writings of Jesus and says that they are fakes. The evidence does not point to this at all. They are afraid, (I believe), that if these scrolls ever did become public, it would be entirely contradictory and antithema to their entire foundation that they have built on. In other words, the teachings of Christ may very well be opposite to what the churches are espousing. "Beware those who come in my name....." Could Jesus have been talking about the churches? If money was his game such as it appears to be with the churches, why would he toss the merchants out for selling goods and using his name while doing it? Why would he not have tried to get a percentage of their profits? Perhaps because he knew it was evil? Some people who attend church faithfully every week and act all self righteous and pious spend the rest of the week having an affair on their spouse, molesting their children, beating their families, being unfair and greedy in their work place, harboring jealousy and resentment, being lazy, thoughtless and very anti christian in their treatment of the planet and other human beings. Do they think they are absloved of all their sins because they go to church every week? Alot of people who don't attend church behave better and live closer to Jesus than those that do. As for what the bible tells us, (The King James version which was essentially translated by a drunk king and his drunk cronies), much of it contradicts itself and doesn't sound very Godlike at all. I believe in some things in the bible, particularily Revelations, but I think alot of the bible is propaganda designed to deceive the masses into believing a false or Anti Christ prophecy. (If we put "true stuff" in a book along with "made up stuff", the made up stuff becomes more believable because there is also truth and therefore it must all be correct, that is how the subconscious mind works). I believe that Jesus is in me and all around me and that I only need to look within myself to see the light and the way. I don't need a church telling me what and how to think and act. God knows what I'm all about (he should, he created me), and as long as my heart is pure, he will know and I will be invited to his table when I pass on. I'm not so sure about the Priests and Ministers and whatever else they're called though. Maybe they will find the "way" and ask for forgiveness before it is too late for them. I am not perfect, I am a sinner, I pass judgement etc... but unlike many people who attend church, I can admit it. I am a Christian, but I am not religious. I will stand up for the teachings of Christ, but not the laws and opinions of the church. I count myself a soldier in God's army, not the church's army. Does this make sense to anyone else or am I just nuts? You be the judge. :think: :lol:

MidnightSun
19th March 2006, 04:52 PM
Many people believe that one must go to church weekly in order to be a good Christian

Its a sin if u dont go to church.

God wouldn't condone murder.

Maybe war god would?

I find it offensive that when you walk into a church, there is a plate at the entrance

The plate is in the corner of the church, somewhere deep inside in my church.

Could Jesus have been talking about the churches?

Well yes, he did. He visited some jews temples. I wont citate but thats what he done: He came into the temple and peeps were selling animals, groceries and other food there,inside the temple. Jesus got angry coz ppl made the temple comercial and he made all the animals and sellers go away.

Jesus never liked commercial stuff :P

Thomas Knierim
20th March 2006, 09:34 AM
thintheherd: I know of people who believe that because one doesn't attend church, they have no right to call themselves Christian.

Obviously that's not a very intelligent basis of judgement. Isn't it rather that many church goers don't have the right to call themselves Christian, because they do not follow the teaching of Jesus? Not outside the church anyway...

thintheherd: the Catholic Church has refused to acknowledge the ancient scrolls believed to be the true writings of Jesus and says that they are fakes. The evidence does not point to this at all. They are afraid, (I believe), that if these scrolls ever did become public, it would be entirely contradictory and antithema to their entire foundation that they have built on. In other words, the teachings of Christ may very well be opposite to what the churches are espousing.

Which scrolls are you referring to? The Dead Sea Scrolls? The Nag Hammadi scrolls?

Cheers, Thomas

1Laspirant
21st March 2006, 03:57 AM
The post is exhaustive, but I think I get your point, and wonder about this, as well.

But, I recently heard what I think is a good explanation of why organized religion is important to spirituality. Houston Smith, the religious writer, in a recent lecture stated that organized religion "gives spirituality traction in history." That is, he believes the reason organized religion, with all its faults, is important is that it carries spirituality to future generations.

Consider, he gave as an example, what would have happened if Paul had not created the church? The beatitudes (those wonderful moral truths that non Christians can agree on, as well as Christians) would have been lost to history. Consider, he gave as another example, if the teachings of Buddha were never written down by followers. The four noble truths and the eight-fold path would have been lost.

That is, at least one explanation that I found to be credible.

1Laspirant
21st March 2006, 07:59 PM
Psyche,

While I agree there could be the possibility that certain stories, or in this case philosophies or religions, can be handed down -in some, modified manner, through an oral tradition, those that survive well [that is, those that survive longest and are generally thought to survive intact from their original] survive in the form of a written tradition.

This is the reason, for example, that written religions (such as, say Buddhism) outlasted chiefly oral traditions (such as, well, for example the Aztec religion)...Because the belief system is written, it can be portable (therefore allowing for the spread of the religion for good or ill) and also transmitted through time more purely.

As for Christ's words in particular -while modified surely over time in the written tradition- I can only imagine how they would have been modified in the oral tradition. That is the case, afterall - the oral tradition relies on human memory and, as we know, human memory is a frail thing. That's why I have to write my grocery list down, let alone my path for salvation.

And I agree in your response to Think: Christianity is a really very "simple" religion in a sense...You don't need to go to church; you merely need to have faith, believe, etc.

1Laspirant
22nd March 2006, 12:56 AM
I don't really understand the first paragrpah of your response, particularly "truth vibrancy."

Suppose, for example, that I hold some truth, X and let's say it is "vibrant," though that's a subjective word. I never write X down. When I die, X is lost, except for the oral tradition, which (as I pointed out before) is flawed and has -when you take into consideration the course of human history- a limited lifespan.

That's the only point that I was trying to make.

Given that is true (as I think it is), Houston Smith's statement on organized religion is not only true, but valid; that is, organized religion (usually with a "written" aspect), allows a specific type of spirituality to span history because it allows for the tenants of that sprituality to be handed down.

That was the point of my original reply to think.

Anyway, that's my point. That and $1.06 will buy you bad cup of coffee, I guess.