Neurotheology

[Thomas Knierim]

[...]Thousands of people have had the experience of meeting God while they were clinically dead. Not all Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) include meeting God, and not all people who were revived from clinical death had NDEs to tell about. [...]

There's a neurological disorder that sometimes leaves people seeing god, or at least claiming to. And there's a neurological picture of the self emerging.

Within neuroscience, both the self, and the disorder that seems to make visions of God concern the limbic system, the middle and lower portions of the temporal lobes, parts of the brain that are activated very easily. More easily, in fact, than any other parts of the brain.[...]

There are two pieces of evidence behind this. One is that psychological 'disorders of the self' usually involve differences in the limbic system. [...] The other important evidence is a thing called "The Forty Hertz Component." It's a component of a typical EEG readout. [...]

I've seen evidence that 'we' can exist outside the body, as well as the brain, during the out-of-body experiences that can happen during near-death experiences, but that's a rare circumstance. Throughout most of our lives, most of us are living within the framework of our bodies, including our brains.[...]

When 'we' exist, we're always using our brains in specific ways, and one of the few constant ways we do it is by maintaining the '40hz component. The 40hz activity appears out of the temporal lobes. It's pathways have come to be understood after studies of people who had trouble in the temporal lobes (epilepsy, head injury, etc.). It involves the surface of the temporal lobes, and two of it's deeper structures, the amygdala and the hippocampus.

The experience of God seems to be an extreme example of the visitor experience. It takes extreme circumstances to manifest the experience, of course, but the experience of God doesn't have any features that don't also occur in other brain-derived experiences.


Todd Murphy, How the Brain Creates the Experience of God: An easy to read explanation of a controversial hypothesis. The God effect.

Source: http://www.innerworlds.50megs.com/god.htm

[locomotive]

Wow evidence of out of body experience. I read this book from mantak chia(don't like the guy)
This guy studies biology and such and he says that when people meditate for a week in a dark room with no sound he will get DMT in the brain naturally and will get crazy vision of the universe and stuff. DMT is one of the most hallucinating drugs that exist. But since it is a natural drug in the brain and to him a gateway to becoming one with the universe....
He also said that people can see people in infrared because their amblungata and hypothalamus can feel it. Anyway it sounds cool.

[Kether]

Apparently, very high quantities of LSD taken in a supportive, therapeutic environment induce 'religious experiences'.

[scameter]

:D

[CSwriter1]

That was totally awesome and should immediately change our treatment of criminals.

This explains some of the bazzar mental experiences I have had, and it is such a relief to have this explanation. I have come across information that gave me some understanding, but this paper definitely improves that understand.

I conclude now, that Post Truama Syndrome results from a powerful impression in the right half of the brain, and that this memory can bleed into our consciousness without being recognized by left brain as fitting into the scheme of the things, but the right brain message can be stronger than the left brain message trying to cope with this crazy feeling from a possibly forgotten past. It is so simple :) I feel like dancing with joy.

It saddens me that some people are overcome with this right brain experience and commit acts that I am sure they deeply regret, and than get treated as criminals who could have made different choices. I thank God I made different choices, but I had help, and will never forget when I almost went over edge, and struggled so hard for my sanity. Perhaps with the information in this paper, I can write the book I have contemplated for a long time, and hopeful influence the change our justice system so it is more humane and just.

[Thomas Knierim]

Spiritual experiences and PTSD have at least two things in common: they can have dramatic effects on brain chemistry and they change people's attitudes lastingly. I am glad that you liked the expositions of Todd Murphy. I found his material interesting, too; it is something apart from standard "schoolbook" psychology. I asked him whether I could include some of his writings into the Essay section of thebigview.com, but unfortunately that wasn't possible due to technical reasons.

Cheers, Thomas

[CSwriter1]

Since reading the paper you posted, I have been mulling over in my mind that my right brain is a connection with Satan or God, depending on the thoughts I entertain. I don't mean Satan or God as supernatural beings such as in the bible, Hum, more like the Greeks Hades- a place we all need to go to determine meaning, but also no one should go there without the help of the Gods (concepts). The Gods- I like the Greek understanding of them, not as supernatural beings, but as concepts, as thoughts that do hold an influential power over our lives. That is, "it is as you think it".

However, because much of what influences us, is from the subconscious, our thinking can be distorted. :unsure: :)
Such as during a PTSD episode, before I had any knowledged of PTSD, I thought maybe I was possessed by the devil. Not that this was what I wanted, but my thinking had become bazzar, and I had no idea why. All I knew was the Christian concept of possession, to explain what was happening to me. :) This is most amusing to me today, because it seems like such a silly idea.

I couldn't turn to God at this time, because that belief came with the possibility of being possessed. Today, with understanding of PTSD and an expanded spiritual understanding, I delightfully turn to God. That is God as the X factor of the universe- something I can never fully understand, but also something that makes me feel good. That no matter what happens, it is okay, because there is something bigger here than our individual human dramas.

I truly like the idea that I can have some control over what I think and feel. Perhaps we need to liberate ourselves from thoughts that can lurk in our subconscious, before we can be clear spiritual thinkers? I have heard buddhist have a place of horrors, or is this just Hollywood stuff? It makes perfect since to me now. We must address our inner demons, to liberate ourselves from them, and then we are truly liberated. Right? <_<

[Thomas Knierim]

CSWriter: Such as during a PTSD episode, before I had any knowledged of PTSD, I thought maybe I was possessed by the devil.

That is probably a naive but accurate description of the experience. Since conscious self-observation is not affected by PTSD, you can watch yourself literally going through hell. Your own conscious reasoning tells you there's something severely out of balance, something that is not you.

Although it is not the same, I can tell you that hellish experiences can even be provoked by meditation. I have experienced this -quite involuntarily- on more than one occasion.

CSWriter: I truly like the idea that I can have some control over what I think and feel.

That's not a mere idea, but an actual possibility. There are many levels of control.

CSWriter: Perhaps we need to liberate ourselves from thoughts that can lurk in our subconscious, before we can be clear spiritual thinkers?

Liberation and becoming a "clear spiritual thinker" are not sequential, but it is one and the same thing. The elimination of mental contaminations is the path. But it is important to understand how elimination works and how it happens.

CSWriter: I have heard buddhist have a place of horrors, or is this just Hollywood stuff?

No, this is pretty much a standard doctrine. There are multiple Buddhist hells. Plus there are really unpleasant forms of existence, such as in the realm of "hungry ghosts". The Buddhist culture is quite imaginative about hell, for example, graphic depictions of hell are very "popular" in Thai Buddhism.

Cheers, Thomas

[Thomas Knierim]

psyche: so how does the elimination work and how does it happen...

The elimination of impurities happens by awareness.

This probably needs some explanation. When I say "contaminations", I mean what Buddhism calls mental impurities. There are many types of mental impurities. The three basic mental impurities are anger, ignorance, and greed. Then there are fear, frustration and hatred, desire and lust, craving and clinging. All of these impurities exist on the emotional plane. In addition, there are impurities that exist on the conceptual plane. These are wrongful identifications, wrongful views, mistaken ideas, and so on.

The first step in elimination is knowing the impurities. This is by no means easy. Since the nature of mental phenomena is volatile and complex, recognising and correctly identifying the impurities is the most difficult part of the work. One should probably start with those that are fairly obvious to oneself, and then proceed to the more subtle ones.

Outside help is beneficial at this stage, since we tend to mask and conceal impurities and we invent excuses for them. Other people might help us discover some impurities that we cannot discover ourselves. We have many blind spots. Moreover, identifying impurities in oneself is by no means pleasant work, since we would prefer to be free from them. The ego constantly tries to cover them up. So, a great deal of honesty and perseverance is required.

Once an impurity is identified, the next step can be taken. When we have discovered a characteristic in ourselves that we don't like, we often try to go against it. We try to remove, repress, deny, substitute, or otherwise try to annihilate the undesired characteristic. We direct the power of volition against it. However, that's a mistake in most cases. One cannot simply will an impurity away. Sometimes repression might work, but only apparently. If we exert force on one part of the system, the system is temporarily out of balance. Like the body, the mind strives for balance. Therefore, another aspect of the mind is bound to be changed by the exertion of force at one point. For example, we might become irritable, exhausted, or develop new cravings.

Annihilation or forceful repression is therefore not a skilful means of dealing with mental impurities. It doesn't really work. Impurities can only be fought by awareness. This is the only way that works. It means that one must become aware of the impurity (such as a negative emotion, a disturbing thought, or whatever it is) at the moment when it enters consciousness. Since we cannot predict that moment in time, this requires ongoing self-observation, i.e. maintaining a state of attentiveness directed to oneself. In other words, one must constantly "mind oneself", so that one is able to observe the arising, duration, and cessation of perceptions, thoughts, feelings, and everything that goes on in the mind.

Impurities will naturally wither and fade away in the presence of awareness. The nature of awareness (or consciousness) is light, and the nature of the mental impurities is darkness. Since darkness is merely the absence of light, impurities cannot exist in the light. Once the light of awareness is shed on our internal mental events, it literally changes the mechanics of our brain processes. If the light of awareness is sustained, the impurities vanish on their own account. There is no need for active, wilful suppression. This is the basis of the teaching of the four foundations of mindfulness.

Cheers, Thomas

[CSwriter1]

<_< I think I want to add a word of caustion, and that is because I have had bazzar mental experiences.

I like what I read in a yoga book about the necessity of following the steps, beginning with karma yoga, and learning to control our bodies. We are too easily deluded, and espeically delusion in our own selve importance can be a serious problem. This is what goes wrong with some spiritual leaders who end up having their followers commit suicide.

That thought, triggers the importance of the Gods. That is concepts essential to protecting us as we pass through mental experiences. Surely Buddhism had plenty of these concepts.

And Thomas, I want to ask you about obsessions. I don't like be personal, but my own experience is what I know best. During a rather dramatic bout of PTSD, before we even had that term to understand this mental phenomenia, I became obsessed with blood and killing people. I would calm myself by thinking about stabbing everyone on campus, until rivers of blood ran everywhere. This was an escalation from just killing one person. I am saying, the more I thought about killing, the more the idea escalated. :)
A slight hint that my thinking wasn't balanced and I needed help. Bringing into the light escalated the hellish experience.

What saved me from hell, was a professor who tiger reason.

[Thomas Knierim]

CSwriter: That thought, triggers the importance of the Gods. That is concepts essential to protecting us as we pass through mental experiences. Surely Buddhism had plenty of these concepts.

Are there gods who protect us? Well, Buddhism is rather austere in this regard. Whatever happens to you, physically or mentally, is a consequence of prior karma and specific conditions that bring karma to fruition. So if we are exposed to an unpleasant experience this means we cannot be protected from that experience, because it is "fate".

Then again, there are many local beliefs mixed with Buddhism. For example, in Thailand people believe in spirits. Supposedly there are spirits who protect us and others who mean mischief. Although I have seen some "interesting" phenomena in Thailand, I cannot confirm such beliefs.

CSwriter: And Thomas, I want to ask you about obsessions. I don't like be personal, but my own experience is what I know best. During a rather dramatic bout of PTSD, before we even had that term to understand this mental phenomenia, I became obsessed with blood and killing people.

Hmm, to be honest I haven't heard of this in connection with PTSD. I've heard of it in connection with combat stress syndrome. So, I can only guess. It might mean that the mind is simply out of balance and tries to "get even" in some way. An autonomic attempt to to regain balance, so to speak. Maybe it's striving for abreaction.

The technique I have previously mentioned with regard to the elimination of impurities does not apply to PTSD or any other "tough" conditions. These conditions require special methods.

Cheers, Thomas

[CSwriter1]

I call what a therapiest did to resolve my mental imbalance, mind magic. That is because the problem is in the right brain, and the logic of left brain isn't very helpful here. However, someone who knows what s/he is doing can get through the right and left barrier to resolve the problem. I have also heard there is a therapy technique that has something to do with rapid eye moverment. I would love to try that, but I no longer have a problem sever enough to justify the expense.

However, yoga also stresses the importance of having a guide. I think it is wise to seek guides and choose them carefully. I think this forum is a good place for people wanting some guidence, thank you.

By the gods as concepts, it didn't mean supernatural beings, but the thoughts we hold. Learning about heroes is learning concepts that are helpful in meeting life's challenges. When I discovered this and philosophy, I began relying on both. I think we need to take care of what we put into our brains, dismissing thoughts that will not get good results, and seeking the ones that do get good results. However, as your post made us aware, it is not just a left brain activity. We need to consider the right brain too.

Socrates would strongly oppose modern music that can be chaotic. He and others thought music very important to having ordered or chaotic thinking. Watching brutal shows that trigger emotions may be not be wise, as the residual emotions can influence us for days, and so can the feelings of inspirational movies. I think we could realize improvement in the human condition if we were more careful of how we impact our minds.

[Thomas Knierim]

CSWriter: I think we could realize improvement in the human condition if we were more careful of how we impact our minds.

Yes, very true. Today we have a lot of mental poisons in the world. There has been an inflation of mental agitation in the industrialised society. It comes to us through TV, movies, radio, i.e media in general, as well as through machines of all kinds. They cause an enormous amount of confusion and distress.

Mindfulness dictates that we protect ourselves from such influences, though that isn't always easy.

Cheers, Thomas