Instincts, Thought, And Memory

[scameter]

I was thinking about it this morning and I remembered the night before when I had fallen asleep on the couch and I don't remember actually getting up and going to my bed, only thinking about moving my covers to become situated for my entering under them and to setting my TV sleep timer. So, I surmised that instincts took over there, and that they are not a functioning thing like thought. That thought, as Ron said, makes constant predictions and thus that functionality makes imprints on memory, which if it didn't exist thought predictions would mean nothing, because we would forget them before they could actually be applied. It's like a motor. It has functioning parts, which is what drives the car to move and to suit our needs. But, a motor without functioning parts merely goes when activated, like an electric current which has no functioning parts and is merely a moving current of amps, volts, and ohms occasionally. A current only needs to be connected from one source to another; a functioning motor needs much more, including electric activation, pistons, the gass pedel being pushed down or let up on, the brake being used and such as that. This may seem confusing, especially with the metaphors, but I hope you will see my meaning, and of course, as always, questions are wanted. :)

[MidnightSun]

Well its reflexes. Some of 'em are learnt or got from human genes and stuff. Like breathing is not learnt, swallowing as well, but u always knew it and using pretty often without even thinking about it. Some of those kind of reflexes are learnt. Playing with guitar for instance or riding by a bike too. Those which u learnt can dissapear if u stop its practice. You never now if u swallow or blink, at least u concentrate ur attention to it. The same happens with going to bed at the set time, as u do every evening/night (nice relfex scam :lol: ). So heres what biology says about it if i understood ur point right buddy ;)

[scameter]

Essentially, but honestly memory wasn't really incorporated any into your 'reflex' reply to my initial statement. I think that we are born with bodily functions that we perform without thougt sometimes, but we are able to think about it and we thus can remember it. As proof, I have had a couple of instances where I would have an obsession with my OCD where I would count my blinks for a certain amount of time in which would constitute both thought and ultimately from that thought, memory. And with my recent anxiety attack, I had trouble breathing; my breathing was one of my main issues, where I would think I wasn't going to breath anymore then out of panic I would not breath for a second and go into more panic. I think that your theory is true, but memory wasn't incorporated into it. :)

[MidnightSun]

Yes scam :) Its all in our instics and somewhere deep in brains.

My my, u agree with my opinion for the first time :D Nice advance buddy :thumbsup: Is that coz of i said the "cute" in one of religion topics ? :D

[Smurf]

:lol:

well yes there is a lot of stuff happening that we don't actually stop to try and understand. if you think about it Billions of years of evolution wasted on this? no there is a lot of automated responses going on up there. This stuff we call instincts. and unfortunately many people in the world let them run and live their lives according to them. :(

but hey stuff them :thumbsup:

[scameter]

Is that bad smurf? I think that instincts have their purpose, as does logic. Both are really only tools just for different things. It is consciousness that makes us truly human and alive, our passion, our compassion, and our conscience. Logic, memory, and instincts are mental tools. :)

And sure midnight. I like being cute. :D

[Smurf]

yes they are tools, but it's bad when a person lets the tools control them, not let them be who they really are on the inside? :)

[scameter]

But is their inside not those tools, as well as everything else? Is self not a compilation of everything of one, that one was and has become? Wow, I sound like asheera. :D

[Smurf]

woah watch out :o :D

good you are learning, i actually new all that before, but yes what does one define as self? just the makeup of everything in the brain creating a mindset and thus creating the silly human beings we see here today?

[scameter]

But these silly human beings are also our bodies, and our surroundings(as explained in Lipton's paper The Human Genome Project on this board), and thus cannot just be our mind or soul or whatnot. And there is so much about our brain we cannot perceive. And that lack of complete perception may make us unable to see the infinite, with out currently finite minds. :)

[Smurf]

well we can't see the infinite anyway, because we are a part of it? but our suuroundings aswell? yes i agree that we are scientifically and spiritually human beings

[scameter]

Well, actually it's that we're inside the finite, and we're trying to understand the infinite in our finitude. It's impossible, which is why science is so popular; it is our means of using our finitude to understand the rest of finitude. :)

[Smurf]

yes well, science is us using our finite capabilities trying to understand the infinite, no?

[scameter]

No. It is our finite minds trying to understand the rest of this finite existence. The infinite is things such as spirituality, mysticism, and even philosophy.

By the way, I've derived another theory on this topic. It's that instincts actually aren't a seperate mechanism in our brains; that there is only memory, logic, and emotion (well, not including the other faculties of course, I am merely refering to the triangle I have deduced here). Most people who seem to be unintelligent are not running on instinct; they're running purely on emotion, with a very little bit of logic thrown in whenever they're forced to follow a procedure or to be serious. When someone seems to "zone out" and not even remember what they have done, but they do it infallibly, they are running purely on logic. And animals have no emotion; they only run on logic. That is why, for instance, a spider's web seems to perfect and necessary; it is entirely and perfectly logical, as is just about everything else in nature. All the wild patterns and physical mathematical constants that rule our environment, symmetry. They are all perfectly logical. Perfectly. It is our emotion that causes us to do the seemingly illogcal things we do, such as pointless murder, the gaining of money and prestige, anger, fear, hate, compassion, humility, depression; all derive from our emotion. Even if some of them seem to fit into society and homosapienity as we know it logically, that is merely because emotion exists naturally and of course forms it's own systems in conjunction with human logic. Money is derivitive of illogcal emotion, but it's systems and rituals are logical, because logic is a means to allow us to understand better, even in the chaos of our emotions. This post is rather humbled, but I do home some clarity can be given to it as you reply. :)

[MidnightSun]

Ah so it says that instincts are caused by emotions and this dynamic process makes logic,but instincts themselves does not exsist. You explained it really intresting scam.

Nice theory :thumbsup:

[Smurf]

hmmm i'd like to say something but i only have the meaning, you know what it's like? let's see, that was very interesting Scam but where do our emotions come from, what or how rather do they operate?

[scameter]

Well, honestly that's the real trick. They're both complex and simple. They have many, many diferent utilizations, but emotion is like a rock. Simple, but it can be carved into many different shapes, then recarved into it's original shape. Except emotions never go away. Ever. Unfortunately.

[Smurf]

oh yes, but it all comes down to how the brain operates no? emotions are just the output of a series of events happening in the brain.

[scameter]

Actually, I think it's our environment stimulating our emotional section of our brain, thus outputting the specific emotion for such environment. For instance, if a man is charging, flailing, and screaming at you wildly, you instinctually fear him, and thus your environment stimulated your emotion section of your brain into emitting fear. :)

[Smurf]

nope your still averaging it, what i'm trying to say is that emotions aren't just a magical force, they are just created by the brain

[MidnightSun]

Maybe instincts make brain to create the emotions which is the cause of some our actions ,we actuattly call it actions which were caused by instincts. And that is instincts.

:lol: Confusing but intresting opinion. Think about it :)

[scameter]

I'm not averaging or making magical anything smurf. I'm saying that emotions are our brain's way of reacting to our environment in the interest of protecting and keeping healthy our body. And that is interesting midnight. :)

[Smurf]

but you do realise that the emotions are just caused by the brain?

[WilliamMckeehan]

i have short time memory loss ... plus i dont remember my childhood only very little bits and peaces ... which is good because from what i hear it was horrible :duh:

i want my memory back

[scameter]

Well, actually smurf, you cannot be sure of that, as you cannot be sure of anything. To claim you are completely sure of anything is arrogance. Which I do hope you do not have. I personally think that they are faculties of the brain, reactions to environmental stimula in the interest of bodily health.

[Smurf]

well perhaps you claiming that someone cannot be completely sure of anything is arrogance aswell? it is not arrogance, or ego talking. i didn't say i was 100%sure anyway. i was just questioning the theory?

yes they are faculties of the brain, that's all i was trying to establish. phew do continue... :ph34r:

[scameter]

I'm not making a definite statement by saying that you cannot be sure of anything entirely, it's an observation. Nothing is certain. But I understand and I agree that they are faculties of the brain.

[scameter]

By observing it's use in the physical world, it's operation and methods.

[MidnightSun]

Provoking what? Provoking u?

[MidnightSun]

But what u meant by provoking anyway? :think: hmm i think i understand..nevermind..

Yes, lets think about it... <_<

[scameter]

I think she meant your input provokes her to think about it. :)

[scameter]

:P

[deepakgang]

provoke- Call forth..

Not annoy

[scameter]

Right. :)

[Smurf]

:unsure:

[scameter]

Where were we? :P

[scameter]

I have actually now devised a new triangle, that of experience, knowledge and logic. Experience is what is learned unintentionally, knowledge is what is learned intentionally, and logic is an objective, more bland means of learning than experiencial learning (which is the tool for acquiring knowledge and experience). Science and philosophy are in the knowledge category, wisdom is acquired from the experience category, buddhist enlightenment is acquired from experience, math is logical, science can be both logical and/or knowledgeable, and belief is an emotional/feelingful tool for acquiring more concrete experience that we can feel, but that eliminates the logical necessity for palpability. Emotion is the underlying method and reason, however, in humans for the acquiring of knowledge, and for the expression and recognition of experience, but logic, however that it's reason is emotional, is more objective, although still bearing the human taint of subjectivity; belief is also inherently emotional. Experience, however, is not caused or reasoned by or for anything, it is merely acquired through the living of life and is not good or bad (or rather, does not give one pleasure or pain) unless it is felt, and yes experience is usually felt, but it is also most often not even recognized and thus is pursued mindlessly and subsequently without feeling.

[MidnightSun]

Say it in lithuanian, i dun get it :lol:

[Smurf]

Say it in lithuanian, i dun get it

:lol: :lol:

yeah say it in Australian too :D

[scameter]

Indeed, if I knew those particular languages I would, but unfortunately I have not had the opportunity nor the patience to learn another language than my natural English, but indeed, you two seem to clearly know and understand my language, so there should be no problem, hopefully. :)

[Smurf]

so you don't know any Australian then? :unsure:

[Thomas Knierim]

No mate, the seppos think it's London to a brick that they invented English. :lol:

[scameter]

:D Nope.

[Smurf]

No mate, the seppos think it's London to a brick that they invented English.

hahah yeah bonza mate, Gnarley!