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rahula
11th December 2005, 10:01 AM
“Death” – this word would be the last word to talk about, this word is the most fearful word in the entire language, and yet this word is the universal truth.

If I ask why do we don’t want to talk about death? Probably because this is ‘what we don’t want’ and this is ‘what we are fearful about’. But still why should we don’t talk about it? Neither by talking nor by not talking – it will come to us and it can come to us any time or any moment – whether we want it or not, whether we talk about it or not, whether we know it or not. Then why should we don’t talk about it?

In my opinion, we should talk about it and must understand what actually death is? Because by knowing the real nature of death we can understand it and by knowing and understanding it – we can ‘come out of the fear of death’ in spite of the fact that one day we all have to face it! Then why not face it courageously rather than succumb to it fearfully? Secondly, by knowing it we can make our life more meaningful, beautiful, and understand the importance of the life and we have very less time in hand! How long? No answer. One can live from this very moment to 100 years, 80 years, 70 years, 10 years, or 1 year, or few months, or few weeks, or few days, or few hours, or few minutes, or few seconds or less than a moment – no one knows!!!

Especially on auspicious occasions such as Birthday or New Year it is considered that mentioning this word would bring bad luck or an earlier death! But in my opinion, one should reflect often on death even more on auspicious occasions because during such reflections we can take stock of our life, reassess our position and see whether we are going in the right direction or not – as each New Year or each Birthday brings us one year closer to grave.

We all know, as a matter of fact, what is death? In fact, death is no stranger to us!
This is the ultimate end of the life. Poets may say it poetically the end of the drama of life or the fall of the curtain or whatever. We all in our lives must have seen death of relative, friend, colleague, parent, children, pet etc. Daily we see people die from accidents, fights, suicides, etc. So death is no stranger to us. Still do we really know death? What is it? What is its true nature? I will try to elaborate these points as far as I can.

Conventionally, death means “end of the life-span”. This is applicable to all living beings – humans, animals, plants, insects, etc. If we see from scientific standpoint, an individual takes birth, grows, lives his life, and finally dies. This death is applicable not only to the individual as a whole but also to the individual body system, organ, tissue, and also to the individual cell. The entire material body is made up of cells and each cell dies. This death at the cellular level may be due to external noxious agent or internal programmed death. As per this concept, an individual dies either due to programmed cell death – aging or due to external noxious agent causing disease. So scientists are trying hard to prevent both these factors – aging and disease – and they believe if that is possible then death is preventable! A wonderful concept to make us feel happy as then no one will die but till date this is nothing but science fiction (and it will remain so!).

If we see from the religious viewpoint, two theories are common. One is the theory of soul – that there is an immaterial soul within our body and when this soul leaves or departs from the body – the individual dies. And another is the theory of rebirth – that is an individual dies and take birth, then again dies and again take birth and the cycle of birth and death continues. These two theories are common in most of the religions of the world. But the question comes to my mind that these are mere theories, as hardly any one has seen the soul or the rebirth phenomenon. So, in my opinion, we are not very much sure whether there is any soul or not? And whether after death the person takes rebirth or not?

In spite of all these theories and viewpoints, the fact remains tall – DEATH IS INEVITABLE! So even if we could not infer how one dies or why one dies, still we can take advantage of the fact that – one does die! Death is certain. No one has ever escaped death. Father, mother or any other all have to die. The suffering of death and separation is bound to come. All the money, possessions, accolades, dear ones will remain here. Not even a single penny we can take with us.

But if we see our life deeper then we see that death is no stranger to us. Every moment we are dying. Every moment we are taking rebirth. If we see inside with insight, we experience the death every moment. Every moment the sensations are arising and passing away, every moment the consciousness is arising and passing away, every moment the thought is arising and passing away. This is very much evident with insight. No viewpoints are needed – neither scientific nor religious. What is needed is just an insight. You see within and this phenomena of arising and passing away or birth and death are evident. Because we don’t know this true nature of life and death, we are fearful of death. We see death as a one-time phenomenon. We see death as the end. Conventionally it is true but not the reality. We see ourselves as solid unchangeable entity and so death is fearful. Do we remain the same from birth till death? A child of one month, a boy of five years, a man of thirty years, a man of eighty years. Is it the same entity? Apparently Yes but in reality No. We are fearful of death because we don’t see ourselves as changeable entity which is in a constant flux! This is the sole reason why we fear death. And when a person with insight sees this ultimate reality, the fear of death disappears. And when fear of death disappears all other fears disappear automatically.

When we contemplate on death in these terms, we see that death is nothing but extinguishing. Like disappearance of flame of the candle. If we see the flame of the candle with insight we see it as constant arising and passing away of burning particles with great rapidity. And finally when nothing is there to burn the flame extinguishes. And this is for sure no flame can remain there for eternity. Similarly no life can remain for eternity. Therefore, our contemplation on death should be that this flame of life can extinguish any time or any moment. So make best use of the remaining time in hand. Do good as far as possible, speak good as far as possible, think good as far as possible, help others as far as possible, donate generously as far as possible. Thus simply by contemplating on death even on auspicious occasions we can make our life beautiful and meaningful. And when death comes we can say: “Death, do your worst, I know you and I can smile”.

Smurf
12th December 2005, 01:13 PM
hmm yes i wish you luck on making the human race understand this. but what you have said is true, bt i believe that death is the entrance to perfection or "enlightenment". i am open to scrutiny on this wholly

deepakgang
12th December 2005, 03:24 PM
I agree with what you think Smurf, but why shouldnt we commit suicide then?

Thomas Knierim
12th December 2005, 07:28 PM
Welcome to thebigview.com, Rahula.

Nice posting. There is a great deal of wisdom in the teaching of impermanence. Life and death are indeed inseparable. They are intertwined requirements of evolution and they appear practically in every process in this universe. People die, animals die, plants die, nations die, oceans die, even planets and suns die. Death implies new life; life implies death.

The fact that death is a taboo topic in our society is deplorable. The society’s attitude towards death is a strange one. You read about death in the newspaper every day, but the topic is shunned among friends and relatives. Do people perhaps believe that death affects only those written about in the newspaper?

I think it is generally a good idea to reflect one’s own death. Not that it is a particularly interesting topic in itself, but it lends appropriate urgency to life. This urgency is a form of mindfulness, a reminder of what needs to be done.

I had two or three close encounters with death, which is probably average at my age (I am 40 now). Each of these encounters gave new awareness and new urgency to my life. Awareness of how lucky I am to be here, and urgency to the matters I am dealing with. Human life is short. There no time for idleness and hesitation.

Reflecting on these encounters with death, I asked myself –what if– and I came to the conclusion that if I had died in that moment, there wouldn’t be much to regret. I would have left with a clean bill. That’s the only thing that counts.

Cheers, Thomas

todd
13th December 2005, 08:30 AM
Death is not a taboo subject, and everyone knows as much about it as any guru does.
Discussing death is pointless, accepting it is everything.
And accepting death implies finding the meaning of your life, fighting with your faith or in most cases, surrender to it.

Smurf
13th December 2005, 09:46 AM
yes thanks deepakgang, but i think the problem is that people who believe otherwise do not want the person to commit suicide, they still have ties to this world and the corrupt human thinking

deepakgang
13th December 2005, 04:15 PM
You could also go through some experiences of other people

http://www.nderf.org/

Smurf
14th December 2005, 11:41 AM
hmm yes thank you for this my friend. i have also heard a near death account, that the person said that they "met" perfection or something along those lines what do you think?

deepakgang
14th December 2005, 12:51 PM
Yes. I have heard like that too. And the most important fact is that all of them who met with near death experiences werent afraid to die later on. Infact it was the knowledge they got, that they still exist after what we call death, was a relief. Most importantly the realisation that it was perfect happiness and love all around them made them feel lighter towards death.

And if you read on those experiences or search some other similar sites, you will find that people who were blind all their lives actually saw them being operated from a distance. And they could also provide with exact description of the room they were put into.

I also believe there is a state of infinite knowledge afer death. The state where you dont have any questions. You find answers to all the mysteries you had thought of. Or you dont require an answer because you know it.

Still should we need any scientific proof other than these experiences? Many may need them to believe. But im gonna believe what these hundreds of people say. Do I still need my own experience to believe this. Should I wait till my death? That would be un necessary.

Smurf
15th December 2005, 05:48 AM
yeah i know what you mean

deepakgang
15th December 2005, 12:07 PM
But still we are attachaed to this world very much. Or we arent 100 percent sure of after death state. That may be the reason we dont suicide.. Or is there any other. Or there should be?

Smurf
15th December 2005, 06:44 PM
i think that we are all just too confused and unsure, running about like our heads chopped off we don't have the time to sit down and actually think about it. which then you find out that it isn't really that bad. just a question of slowing down and taking a big view on the world :D

deepakgang
16th December 2005, 09:42 AM
I agree. B)

A very interesting view of hinduism about the process of death and rebirth.

http://www.gita-society.com/section4/4_rei...incarnation.htm (http://www.gita-society.com/section4/4_reincarnation.htm)

Read whole or jump to section 11.

Those who dont believe also will have nice time reading the same. :)

Smurf
17th December 2005, 06:07 AM
Yes interestin, on one of our tv shows here in Aus there is a show and tell segment, this guy also had a near death experience, his heart stopped beating, was rushed to hospital and then he said it was like he could see the nurses working on him in a third person view :thumbsup:

steven
7th January 2006, 04:47 AM
"The fact that death is a taboo topic in our society is deplorable"

yes, no good for those who are not afraid to talk about it. Use to try to get people to talk about it, until saw it was hurting them.

It is "I" we want to persist, but giving away "I" returns more than can be put in words.

Smurf
7th January 2006, 05:35 AM
ahh very interesting i was thinking that "enlightenement" in life is only the theory and that death is the practice? <_<

scameter
7th January 2006, 02:19 PM
Yes, unfortunately it's teachings have been polluted with such ritual. But the entire basis for both Indian consciousness and it's practicing religion, Buddhism, is to go so inside of yourself as to let this illusionary existence and even yourself die, and to lose all your karma and become enlightened, then to pass into the nothingful bliss called Nirvana. This is why the seed of Zen, originally called dyan, was born in India, but could not take soil. India, being so intrusive like a seed is, could make seeds, but it's extreme intrusiveness disallowed it to be a soil for the seed. So, Buddha gave the seed to one of his followers, who then took it to China, a balance of intrusiveness and extrusiveness, where it found appropriate soil; not too hot or cold, not too intrusive or extrusive. But, it could not bloom there. It was then taken to the extremely extrusive country of Japan, where it bloomed into Zen. :) I love the history of Eastern thought. Honestly, even if I didn't follow it's teachings I would still learn about them and their history, just because I think it is extremely interesting. :)

Smurf
8th January 2006, 05:43 AM
yeah i read about this on a different thread,

you know what guys? this place is great, makes me feel we can actually do something about the problems in the world

MidnightSun
8th January 2006, 05:04 PM
:lol: well scam often repeats it now... :)

Gladd about ur possitive opinion old good slow smurfy :D

" There is no death ,only fear exsists." - me :)

scameter
8th January 2006, 10:52 PM
:P "There is no death; there is." -Me :)

Smurf
9th January 2006, 02:23 PM
"If you can't laugh at youself then just laugh at me" - Me
:lol: :lol: :lol:

WilliamMckeehan
9th January 2006, 03:27 PM
death the most simplest things can be so scary! i will admit i am terrified of dying but i know how it will be like u will not be here anymore and that sounds good because spending forever anywere sounds so horrible to me ... but i dont want to lose my love when i die :o thats the only thing that makes me hate death 100%

scameter
9th January 2006, 11:44 PM
I was thinking about it yesterday, and the entireity of humanity lives off of fear. Everything we do is in fear, most likely of death. We eat, sleep, urinate, shit, try to stay happy, get angry, try to stay healthy, get money, power, accomplishment, favor...because we fear death. We want to either try to protect ourselves form it as long as possible, or we want to try to keep our gaze off of it's inevitable existence. And, if not the fear of death, there are so many other fears that we live off of. It's rather odd, if you think about it.

WilliamMckeehan
10th January 2006, 10:42 AM
ya i really think no one should ever fear death ... but u just cant help it

i really wish and hope love lives forever ... it seems powerful enough too :D

Smurf
10th January 2006, 01:58 PM
i dont fear death, actually i can't wait

Will it doesn't matter worrying about it because when you are dead you wont know! :D complete non consciousness, just like sleeping forever. no worries, fears etc just you on a date with nothing :thumbsup:

deepakgang
10th January 2006, 02:08 PM
I too dont fear death.
But I would really like to kiss my girl one more time (everytime)
I would love to give something to my parents who have given everything that I have now.
I really want to go places and enjoy the beauty of earth before I go.
I want to be a father and a grantfather.
I value it more than the state after death- even when I believe death will bring more happiness to me.

Now do I fear death?

hmm...

Is death hearing?

Its this world and the things here that holds me tight from wishing to die.
Not because I fear death. May be because I fear what will happen to my parents, my gf. What all I miss.

deepakgang
10th January 2006, 02:10 PM
In simple words do what Ive told means I fear death?

Nay :think:

scameter
11th January 2006, 01:23 AM
I'm sorry to say and I hope I don't offend, but I actually caught myself laughing with all the people saying they don't fear death. It's really sad, because we may tell ourselves we don't fear death and we may try not to, but we do. Fear is the most powerful agent in this world in my opinion, from my observations. And they may can help to psyche, but it is still there, and simplicity would merely accentuate the simple nature of fear would it not?

scameter
11th January 2006, 05:29 AM
Even those so-called Enlightened Ones are still human and are alive, and thus have fear. I read somewhere that said that the Dahli Lama spent years trying to evade fear, and he still can't, as almost everyone else alive cannot.

WilliamMckeehan
11th January 2006, 09:22 AM
LOVE IS THE MOST POWERFUL FORCE ANYWHERE ANYTIME





:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Smurf
11th January 2006, 04:26 PM
really, psyche? i suppose that fear is equally as powerful, for there to be balance you see?

and i don't fear death itself, i only fear that other people i leave behind have unnecessary fears. which saddens my human side :(

deepakgang
11th January 2006, 08:42 PM
Love always overcome fear. Or many a times fear originates from love.

deepakgang
12th January 2006, 10:48 AM
But sometimes it occurs to us that we may lose love. That is fearful, no? May be like we are afraid of darkness...

Smurf
12th January 2006, 01:56 PM
fear is the opposite of love? then for there to be balance it has to be equal to love.

or perhaps like light, there is fear already and then love must come into the darkness, or something <_<

deepakgang
12th January 2006, 08:20 PM
Tama soma jyothir gamaya: (Sanskrit)


Lead me form darkness to light.

Smurf
13th January 2006, 03:09 PM
Christmas is on the 25th of december because that was a pagan celebration, this made the transistion to christianity easier :thumbsup:

deepakgang
13th January 2006, 07:16 PM
A new knowledge :)

MidnightSun
13th January 2006, 09:35 PM
What kind of pagans? This lands ppl were pagans as well and they had no celebration like that or even a God of light. Pls state ur opinion.

scameter
14th January 2006, 01:46 AM
You can't? Why, may I ask?

Venus
15th January 2006, 12:41 AM
Saturn- is the planet/god of death...
Pagan- considered as the Roman/Greek/ even Christian religion (As we have pagan influecnes due to Consintine...)
"Pagan" is often know as an planet worshiping/multitheist religions.
But it's like when poeple say"The Sahara desert" it is incorrect because "sahara" mean desert!

scameter
15th January 2006, 10:04 AM
I think of pagan as your third definition Venus, the multitheists/planet worshipping, and I think all pagan traditions are different, yet have similarities, as do all things produced by the human consciousness most obviously. Wicca, Druid, Viking, Native American, Greek, Romans and so forth with multitheistic, even though the latter two didn't have much earth worship in their religions respectably, they were multitheistic.

Smurf
15th January 2006, 03:31 PM
nope Romans worshipped other gods psyche

scameter
15th January 2006, 11:19 PM
Words are loose, unaffiliated entities, greatly influenced by their users and not completely trustable.

Smurf
16th January 2006, 02:37 PM
was that before the Eastern Roman Empire under Constantine adopted the Christian Cult(as it was then) to the empire?

scameter
17th January 2006, 02:21 AM
Are you getting this about him having this converting dream from literature meant to be believed in, or from factual information?

scameter
17th January 2006, 06:10 AM
Him? Like, from Virgil's journal or something?

scameter
17th January 2006, 06:24 AM
Oh yes, right. Sorry. Well, then was it from Constantine's journal or something?

scameter
17th January 2006, 06:48 AM
Then, where exactly did you get that information? Factual or literature?

scameter
18th January 2006, 12:32 AM
Ok. That's all I wanted to know. :)

Smurf
18th January 2006, 10:43 AM
i think he did keep a journal though?

scameter
19th January 2006, 01:48 AM
Well, one way to discover the truth of his occurance was were there any monasteries during that time? They were the main caretakers of journals and manuscripts of that time. :)

scameter
19th January 2006, 02:08 AM
:)