Purpose Of Life

[Jori]

I believe all personal problems will be solved by having the correct purpose of life. Mistake number one is not having a purpose in life. Mistake number two is having the wrong purpose of life. Living on the correct purpose leads to peace. On the other hand, living on the wrong purpose leads to frustration, loneliness, violence, addictions, anxiety and despair. We are not here to :
1. earn a lot of mony, be rich, be successful, accumulate possessions
2. dominate, compete, win, be powerful, be the best
3. be liked, be attractive, be popular, be famous, have friends
4. enjoy life, live life to the fullest , have fulfillment, be comfortable, get the most out of life, feel good, avoid pain, be happy
5. do what we want to do, be what we want to be, set and achieve goals, be master of our destiny, manage our lives, make our dreams come true.
God created us for His own purpose. We are here to know God, love God and serve God, so that to be someday with him in heaven forever. Our life on earth has eternal consequences. Several verses in the Bible support each of the ideas above. Living on this correct purpose, not science nor psychology, is the hope of mankind. What do you think?

[FalseReality]

http://www.online-literature.com/twain/let...from-the-earth/ (http://www.online-literature.com/twain/letters-from-the-earth/)

Mark Twain's Letters from Earth

good read, which critiques Christianity, the bible and the expectations of heaven among other things.

I could post paragraphs but I think it's better if you learn the context.

As for the science and phsycology comment.

How many people can put blind faith into a book written 2000 years ago. Quite the contrary, most people crave something tangebile, some explanation, we always fear what we don't understand and we always search for understanding...science.

But are you saying that science does not adhere to the beliefs of Christianity.
If your saying that "a few" verse in the bible should be believed over tangebile evidence of something such as evolution, or the big bang, then I would have to disagree with you.

[Jori]

I see you don't believe in the Bible. Science and religion have different fields of expertise and answer different questions. Science can tell us how to cure sick people, but it cannot tell us whether we should cure sick people. If a scientist tells us that we should cure people because of this and this reasons, he is speaking as a philosopher, not as a scientist. Science cannot tell us if we should have a purpose of life, if there is a right and wrong purpose of life, and which ones are the right and wrong purposes. Scientists can tell those, but not as scientists, but as philosophers.
If something is intangible, it doesn't mean it's false. Science is tangible and exact, but narrow. religion and metaphysics are intangible and inexact, but broad. Whether we should cure sick people or not, is intangible.
Old does not mean invalid. New does not mean true.
Science means power. The more power we have, the more guidance we need.
Religion tells us that God created everything. Science tells us how God created everything. Science tells us how the heaven goes. Religion tells us how to go to heaven.
I'm sorry if I upset you.

[FalseReality]

1. Don't worry I'm not upset

2. It's not that I don't believe everything in the bible. I'm just skeptical. Agnostic.

3. You say religion tells us to cure people. Ok, so I would assume from this you think that atheists have no intention, and feel no moral obligation to cure people. Right. they have no religion.

A similar statement but with the same flaw would go something like, "morals come from religion."

However one must realize that this is untrue. Morals and ethics are not taught through the words of a book. Lets be realisitic here, how many 15 years olds have morals, now compare this to how many 15 year olds who have read the bible. I can even increase the age and this will still be accurate. Similarly the feeling of aiding another individual is not learned through the bible.

Science may not be able to tell us a purpose of life other then procreation, but how are you sure there is another. From the bible. yet science proves the story of Adam and Eve is false. But faith is committed.

4. If something is intangible it means it cannot be proven. And this means one must commit faith in a belief that cannot ever be fact. You may say we have a purpose in life, and that purpose is to serve god. But then I would ask you what God, or how do you know of this purpose. Most likely you would refer to the bible, a piece of text, a collection of fragments from older bibles, and this would be your only support. And still you have to commit more faith. Faith that the bible is authentic, faith that the writers did not inculcate their own opinions, faith that the bible is true, faith that the words have never been tampered with, faith in prophets, faith that the religion was not concieved by idle minds.

an excerpt from Letters from Earth

Moreover -- if I may put another strain upon you -- he [humans] thinks he is the Creator's pet. He believes the Creator is proud of him; he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes, and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to Him, and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea? Fills his prayers with crude and bald and florid flatteries of Him, and thinks He sits and purrs over these extravagancies and enjoys them. He prays for help, and favor, and protection, every day; and does it with hopefulness and confidence, too, although no prayer of his has ever been answered. The daily affront, the daily defeat, do not discourage him, he goes on praying just the same. There is something almost fine about this perseverance.

If Christianity is the true religion why is it not seen through everyday life. Why does God force the quisitive, free-willed humans to put blind faith in the bible.

5. Heaven.

Assuming that your beliefs are correct, What happens to the people who believe in the wrong religion? Do they go to this Hell Christians have invented. Seem like a merciful god right. A god who sends prohpets to preach forgivness yet never practices it himself. Exults the forgiving while drowing a world or killing Adam and Eve.

-Also, what is in this heaven? It appears that the Christian picture of heaven is exactly what most repulses them. No sex, singing gospel hymns for eternity, TOLERENCE FOR OTHER RACES.


let me show you

-"For instance, take this sample: he has imagined a heaven, and has left entirely out of it the supremest of all his delights, the one ecstasy that stands first and foremost in the heart of every individual of his race -- and of ours -- sexual intercourse!" Yet this is left out.

-Everybody sings in heaven. Yet on earth nobody does. In fact the favorite and most relieving point of Mass is when the Priest raises his arms and declares it's over. And consider Mass lasts for a mere hour a week.

-All white nations look condcendingly upon black nations. All Black nations do the same for White. The most broad characteristic of the human race is prejudice.Yet what happens in heaven. All the races of the world get dumped into heaven and we believe we will suddenly gain tolerence.

[scameter]

I'm sorry, i just don't and cannot believe in the Bible. My belief, incorporated with sane logic, is that anything that is here was meant to be here or it wouldn't be, and that that is it's one purpose. Why must things have more than that? But anything that is here cannot have no purpose, for it exists, and that is the purpose. Religion exists mainly to satisfy human arrogance. Science exists because people enjoy discovering, knowing, and understanding a system of plausible facts. Psychology exists for reasons similar to science, but is more fixated to the mind. I prefer Taoism's view, that we should see everything as it is, no more, no less, and coloured by nothing. And that is merely saying that everything is here because it is; HOW it is here is the main question pursued by people. And thus should be listed as such, not to discover it's purpose.

O Me! O Life! - Walt Whitman
O Me! O life! of the questions of these recurring,
Of the endless trains of the faithless, of cities fill'd with the
foolish,
Of myself forever reproaching myself, (for who more foolish than I,
and who more faithless?)
Of eyes that vainly crave the light, of the objects mean, of the
struggle ever renew'd,
Of the poor results of all, of the plodding and sordid crowds I see
around me,
Of the empty and useless years of the rest, with the rest me
intertwined,
The question, O me! so sad, recurring-What good amid these, O me,
O life?

Answer.
That you are here-that life exists and identity,
That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.

:)

[deepakgang]

I will add what Sri Sri Ravi Sankar has told about the purpose of life:

--------------

What is the purpose of life? What is the end product that we want to see in our life? What do we want? Some people say the purpose of life is not to come back to this planet again. Others say love is the purpose in life. Why would someone say they dont want to come back? Because they find there is no love here or when there is love it is very painful.

When somone is pained and troubled they dont want to come back. If this place could be so wonderful and full of love and divinity, then the desire not to come back would drop naturally. When we see the purpose of life from all sides, from every angle, then the end product that we want from life is a love that doesnt die out, a love that doesnt cause pain., a love that grows and stands forever.

Suppose you could have all the success in the world, even become the richest person or the most famous person, but have no love in life. Then life will not be a success. Life would appear to be a barren. From every angle we come to the same point that all we aspire for in our life is love, a divine love, a love that is ideal. The purpose of life is to flower and bloom in that ideal love. And the thing that hinders us from that love is Ego, ignorance.

[scameter]

But if love is the purpose of life and we also can see life from every angle and viewpoint, then love couldn't be it's real purpose because love has many different meanings and faces and thus is not definite enough to be a purpose.

[Smurf]

Don't be silly there is no purpose to life only to the human being there is, through our tainted human nature we are led to believe that there is a "purpose to Life" or meaning but there isn't, we are just a bunch of atoms thrown together to create a human being. I ask you does a computer think of meaning or purpose?

[VossistArts]

purpose and no purpose are the same thing. I dont think anything is independant of a precedent and untethered from a subsequent. If thats true, and it is for most things, then in the most basic sense everything has purpose. Whether the purpose is deliberate or meaningful is entirely subjective. Purpose can also be pointless. Purpose can be arbitrary, and purpose in this sense is unavoidable. I think that we as humans exist in such a way that we are like a reflection looking for our source, varying degrees of self awareness, proves that purpose, on a personal level even, is pre-existant.

Jori,
Problems are what determines purpose whether chosen to correct or enhance. I dont think its possible to make mistake number one and not have a purpose in life. We dont start out free from disturbance and need. We probably dont end free from those either. If there were some purpose we could pursue and adhere to that lead to peace, and we chose to do so rather than serve some wrong purpose, then you have to admit that even though the correct purpose is chosen and leads to peace, that incorrect purpose and its results still exist. Im not suggesting that incorrect purpose is the valuble part of that consideration. The results from pursuing mistaken purpose, that you listed are incredibly valuable. All those things you consider negative and seek to omit from your path have indespensible lessons and knowledge attached to them. You cant own that knowledge through speculation. You cant know god or live in heaven as one who is ignorant, however peaceful you may be. Peace and happiness arent things that should sought after as a goal and a point for a purpose because there is no reward in those things, in fact peace and happiness exist in brief contrast, AS reward for successfully coming to own the lesson and the knowledge that comes from all our mistakes, our problems, our failings.


I believe in God. I just dont believe God exists. We as humans , as awareness as such, are still busy inventing, creating and animating the god that has created us all.

[VossistArts]

You see, things dont begin as mature and wholly developed and then create a path back their infancy and immaturity. People have it backward. If God existed before we created him He wouldve aspired to create things still greater yet, than Himself. Why would a god create a reality that was beneath Him, that was counter evolutionary and unenlightened? No one, not even the most ignorant, twisted or misguided is amused or satisfied by redundancy.

[deepakgang]

I am a hindu. And we believe there is something after death. I know there is another discussion about what after death. But it is very relevant here also. What you guys think about what happens after we die?

[VossistArts]

i borrow my guess from buddhism, tibetan, altho I imagine it could possibly correalates to other beliefs systems too.

I had a recent summing up for the moment on my thoughts on this. as i see it now, the person (self image) i believe i am presently isn't a truth, nor is it enduring beyond the life of this body and brain. in my opinion the aspect of what we are that endures beyond lifetimes has no name, no face, no identity, nor should it. even so i believe that enduring principle is somehow pristine, whole, and complete in all but one ways. it wants to know itself. not content to burn on endlessly without self knowledge, it places us ( us=trans personal self + temp personal self image) in an environment that forces a sense of individualism, seen to be seemingly tangible , gross material, a mirror. The I , I call August Voss, is like a hired hand, a servant to itself, made for the purpose of becoming increasingly more and more aware of its primary trans personal self, and in the span of time Ill call this lifetime, I get to determine more or less the pace or intensity of evolving me back into the One me, understanding and knowing of itself, truly complete. when I die, August Voss truly dies with the body it used in the interim. After all the person we think we are is only a collection of memories and images collected from this one lifetime experience, stored in brain. So I wont be back,. Perhaps the principle essence behind what I am will process and find its way back to a new birth and body, to create a new personal self, to continue its quest for knowing itself consciously, to one day become whole. Who Ill think I am I do not know. ALL i know ( or feel reasonably sure of) is i wont be the me I think I am now.
In a way that can all seem a bit discouraging from an ego view, but what is encouraging and inspiring at the same time is this thing i feel that i KNOW. that is, that I can decide to really push myself towards that enlightenment in this lifetime rather than **** it off, and what might inspire me to kick the quest up a notch is a feeling i have that when the time comes, when I become whole and know myself at last, that my entire existence from start til then will be laid out before me. Certainly it will be. If one is to truly come to know ones self ( so to speak) surely nothing will remain hidden or unknown of ones self. All the trials tribulation, evolution, relations, celebration, will be there for me to know. to own. to keep or discard. What will become of me then... I never take even a moment to guess at. I feel sure it will be something Ill appreciate.

[deepakgang]

Voss, the ideas you believe are very similar to what is there in Hinduism. In fact we can find striking similarities in Buddhism and Hinduism.

Hinduism considers the world in which we live as a projection of God and unreal. It is unreal not because it does not exist, but because it is unstable, impermanent, unreliable and illusory. It is unreal because it hides the Truth and shows us things that lead to our ignorance. It is unreal because it changes its colors every moment. What is now is not what is next.

In one moment so many things happen here. Many new souls enter. Many depart also. Friends become enemies and enemies friends. The sun and the earth change their positions continuously in space and time, while the wind moves, the rivers flow and the oceans shift their currents. The people who live on earth are also very fickle. Their minds are never stable. Their thoughts never cease. They seem to live today and disappear tomorrow. While all this is going on in the whole wide world, at the microscopic level, millions of atoms, cells and molecules in the bodies shift and change their positions or get destroyed.

The world in which we live gives us an apparent illusion of stability, where as in truth it is not. It is an illusion to believe that this world is the same always, or that the people we deal with are the same all the time. The world is therefore an illusion, not because it does not exist in the physical sense, but because it is unstable, ever changing, impermanent, unreliable and most important of all never the same. Ask yourself this question. Are the same person you were a minute ago?


Earth is not our natural home. It is a school for us to learn, to experiment and to make mistakes. Our sojourns here on earth create educational opportunities through which we learn the best ways to develop the soul and develop attributes that we lack.

Each soul, by his own choice, passes through many earthly sojourns and is given a chance to develop spiritually. In the process, mistakes may also be made, and actions may be taken that move us farther away from God; but in each lifetime we are also free to act so as to make up for those errors.

It is through our actions that we create many of our own rewards and punishments. Of course, it is up to us to alter or redirect our lives at any time. It is through various experiences that we grow and develop. All experiences are for our good and sometimes it takes what we would consider a negative experience to help develop our spirits. We chose many of our weaknesses and difficult situations in our lives so that we could grow. We were very willing, even anxious, as spirits to accept all of our ailments, illness, and accidents on earth, to help better ourselves spiritually. Our most sever challenges will one day reveal themselves to be our greatest teachers. Grief is growth. Soul cleansing can come through illness. We should not consider ourselves to be the unfortunate victims of the circumstances we are in. Some of us have come to earth to unite in a cause to change certain things, some to strengthen a course already set and to pave the way for those who may follow. Some come to earth for a short time, living only hours or days after birth.

[VossistArts]

Originally posted by @--
Hinduism considers the world in which we live as a projection of God and unreal. It is unreal not because it does not exist, but because it is unstable, impermanent, unreliable and illusory. It is unreal because it hides the Truth and shows us things that lead to our ignorance. It is unreal because it changes its colors every moment. What is now is not what is next.

In one moment so many things happen here. Many new souls enter. Many depart also. Friends become enemies and enemies friends. The sun and the earth change their positions continuously in space and time, while the wind moves, the rivers flow and the oceans shift their currents. The people who live on earth are also very fickle. Their minds are never stable. Their thoughts never cease. They seem to live today and disappear tomorrow. While all this is going on in the whole wide world, at the microscopic level, millions of atoms, cells and molecules in the bodies shift and change their positions or get destroyed.

The world in which we live gives us an apparent illusion of stability, where as in truth it is not. It is an illusion to believe that this world is the same always, or that the people we deal with are the same all the time. The world is therefore an illusion, not because it does not exist in the physical sense, but because it is unstable, ever changing, impermanent, unreliable and most important of all never the same. Ask yourself this question. Are the same person you were a minute ago?

Ive always had a really hard time with the notion that constant motion, and change, are precursory to the illusory conclusion. As far as I can tell, anything that is or could be phenomena in the realm of the phenomenal is by nature or virtue of its coming to exist as such, set into motion naturally. Aside phenomena is noumena, and we cant say anything at all about that. it cant be empty or full, it cant be truth or illusion.. or anything. anything besides indication. the idea that what is apparent is an illusion , and what is unapparent is real makes no sense. I kind of feel like over time we've got a bit lost in the dogma. All the things you said about this kind of phenomenal experience were experiencing are true enough by me, all things every changing, moments fleeting, but in my opinion those characteristics don't constitute instability and illusion. Its the concept of stability and the futile struggle to convince ourselves that stability is not only possible but that it somehow exists that we paste over what are otherwise simple facts, that creates the illusion. As i stand i cant conceive of a reality that is by contrast stable and unchanging. I think thats impossible.. to exist in any way, in an unchanging, stable state or environment. You say that this reality hides the truth. I agree with that in a way. i think its more like this reality manifests truth in a form we have to struggle to grasp , to apprehend, to release. Its not what we wish it to be. We like being in motion but we don't like it when we feel swept along, out of control. We cant control whether were swept along or not, but we can control our awareness towards the things we encounter as we pass them by. Its tuning awareness that slows it all down, if youd like,, perhaps even stops it all for a moment.... or a billion moments, but no matter what, we have to accept that we have to let the awareness go its natural way and move with as much grace as possible to the next moment. It all a matter of putting things into perspective. Im not sure that the attempt to seperate this from non-that, calling the former illusion and the latter real, serves any useful purpose by itself. Now if you go on to show what characteristics of phenomenal reality can be seen at some point as illusion by viewing the entire cycle of their existence, coming from apparent nothing, existing, and returning to apparent nothing, then it becomes somewhat useful, or at least of interest. That shows nature. That shows in fact a reality, that makes it all true in perspective.

[deepakgang]

the idea that what is apparent is an illusion , and what is unapparent is real makes no sense.

I had mentioned that Something is unreal not because it does not exist, but because it is unstable, impermanent, unreliable and illusory. Illution is called as Maya in Hinduism.

After all what is illusion? It is something like a mirage which misleads you into wrong thinking and wrong actions. This world precisely does that. It offers you happiness but leads you into the darkness of suffering. It tempts you with many things and when you run after them you find them to be unreal and incapable of quenching your thirst for stability and permanence. How could we call a dollar note, which we are unable to take wherever we go after death, a real thing.
It doesnt mean that that dollar note doesnt exists like in Matrix, but it is only a delution that we can possess it.

How the delusion is caused? It is caused through the senses. The Bhagavad gita explains the process, " By constantly thinking of the sense objects, a mortal being becomes attached to them. Attached thus he develops various desires, from which in turn ensues anger. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion arises confusion of memory. From confusion of memory arises loss of intelligence and when intelligence is lost the breath of life is also lost (2.60-63)."

Maya causes delusion in many ways. Under the influence of Maya an individual loses his intelligence and power of discretion. He forgets his true nature. He loses contact with the self with in and believes that he is the ego with a body and a name. He develops attachment with worldly objects and wants to possess them - like a dollar note.

When we say- ' I'm old ', it only means that your body is old. Or your body is young. Because it is bound to change and eventually destroy. Like we change old dress and puts on new one, we will accept a new body also. Our soul never becomes old nor it becomes younger. It is stable. And the purpose of every soul is to go to that stable plane, but only after reviving itself by taking many births in earth which is a learning school.

And you didnt mention anything about my post starting with ..." Earth is not our natural home...". I think its something similar to what Buddhism says.

[scameter]

My God i'm not even going to reply to that lol Too much to read, i'm not patient enough :D Not to say that what you all have to say isn't important to me or that i can't read that much, which both of those are untrue, I just mean that i think i see what's being said here as a summarical thing which is all i need. :) To me, the purpose of life is what i quoted, Whitman's poem. No more, no less. People are just so vain as to think that there must be more of a purpose. :)

[Ronagon]

The only "purpose" in life is what bullies choose for you... for their benefit.

[deepakgang]

Like we are rats being experimented upon by some demonic force. And they (bullies)are studying our reactions.

[scameter]

And why do you two think that is how life is?

[Smurf]

because it is humourous?

[scameter]

No, i'll tell you why. Because in your cynicism and your inability to actually live life passionately and humanly, you have become blinded to it, and now are completely open to the horroristic view of mere existence. Existence is there, but it should be hidden by what is also naturally there, life. One exists in existence; do not live in it.

[Smurf]

Yes but can one not live live as something else other than a human? through human nature's hypocritical, contradicting filters?

[deepakgang]

Or he may be trying to prove that he is bad. And Bad is Good. :D

[deepakgang]

I have one question. If one is here because it is meant to be here. Why should one die? What if one can live till he wishes to be? Is it because one is not meant to be here that he dies? Then who set the rules?

[kskf]

Why should any rule be "set" by someone?

[scameter]

Smurf, those filters are not human; they are made out of pure ignorance and arrogance at childhood as conditioning. Humanity is not conditioned; it is free spirited and free willed, full of life and passion and humanity. An extremely rare sight.

Hmm...deepak, i've been asking myself that question for a while and honestly, i can't incorporate it into my views because it doesn't make sense. Maybe, possibly, our sentience and our awareness of death makes us want to live life more fully(or should) because of, well, fear. But i do hope that we live to live, not just out of fear. :)

Well honestly kskf, I don't think anyone should. Nature has it's rules and they are obviously there for a purpose or they wouldn't be there, and thus they are the only rules we have to live for. :)

[Smurf]

well no one else created this arrogance stuff, only us Humans! because us humans do it it is classed as a part of human nature.

[scameter]

No, we adapt and change due to living. And if people are arrogant and hypocritical then they have adapted to be this way from experience and personal choice and thus such arrogance and hypocrisy are possible from humans, but we chose to be this way. It's not the only choice.

[Smurf]

i know but many people are like this and we are humans acting like this and so anything we do is a part of human nature? and i know it is not the only choice but as long as we are humans then..... argh blah i got writers block again i will think on it and then reply again soon

[scameter]

No i think i see what you mean my friend. Read my latest post in If You Ruled the World in Philosophy. :)

[Smurf]

Ahh thanks again Scam

[scameter]

Np :)

[Aqua_angel]

I didn’t really read all the posts but i took a look and everyone is talking about their religion. I grew up in a family that forced me to be faithful in Christianity because that’s the only true religion. But every step i took it made me question. IF there is one GOD why do we have different beliefs? The bible, i don’t believe its sacred these are all teachings of prophets what they believe and their thoughts of purpose of life and the whole shebang.
If you look back in history, what was the main purpose for religion? it came down to being the protector of people and people to fear GOD. It was used to control uneducated people. Because that was unexplainable and it seemed like it worked.
Nobody today would ever be able to prove what happened 1000 of years ago. Science cant prove and neither the smartest man on this planet.
My question is do we really make this wonder such a big phenomenon that we are just blind to see what’s staring us in the eye?
What if? and i look at everything around us from tiny molecules to humans and earth and atmosphere and the planets and the universe?! what if we are like those tiny tiny molecules that create life in our atmosphere but to someone else...nobody can explain how and why the molecules in our bodies know what to do and when to do it, how do they know order?? my question is what if our purpose is to sustain something bigger than us?
If the galaxy is endless?!! who can say that we dont contribute to something bigger than our brain can even comprehend?!
Yeah there might be life after death because we are made of chemical reactions and when we die we return to the universe, its logical tha tthere is life after death only that our toughts dont get carried to the future. And maybe we are here to serve something bigger than us, we just dont know who and i wonder if we would ever discover our true purpose...when u get old and u look at your life...what other purpose than your self realization be it spiritual, material etc. (customized to each person) is there?
Religion is just something to keep us sane! believe in the unknown yet we dont know what it is. I believe in GOD but i dont believe the way religions tell you how u should believe, and the bible and every religion is always interpreted by each individual differently thats why we sometimes see people who do dispicable things in the name of religion Thats all i got to say.

[MidnightSun]

Yes, im forced to be a christian as well.

[locomotive]

There is one purpose only and that is to live. If you have this as your essence, for example like enlightend people or taoist, then you will solve many problems.

[MidnightSun]

But the question still remains how we should live it.

[scameter]

I think that we cannot comprehend the spiritual. Which is why it disgusts me when spiritualists, although more suitingly religious people, say that science is wrong, in fear of it disproving their beliefs. That is a retarded view. Science described the physical; spirituality, the nonphysical. Even if the spiritual is apart of the physical it is still not physical and thus not comprehendable it's self. We call this metaphysical existence spiritual because we cannot understand it, and so really a more proper title for it would be the Great Mystery, because that's what it is. If scientists/logicians say "Well, I see no physical evidence for spirituality in existence and thus it does not exist" I would reply thusly: "I agree, there is and would be no physical evidence for it and it does not exist, because it is metaphysical. Logic and science cannot comprehend it, so you are right in viewing as you do of it." :)

[locomotive]

But the question still remains how we should live it
does a atom wonder how he should live? thats where I am getting at.

@scameter, then how did they get the notion of a spiritual thing?

[scameter]

Who, scientists? They got it not from science or logic, but from their own human spirituality i.e. soul. And, why are you refring to an atom as "he"?

[locomotive]

I meant the people that think about spirituality. Spirituality in general. How can you know of something that is uncomprihendable. How do you know that it exists.

I refer to a atom as he to state my point. Which is that we know what to do because other things show us the way. ( depends on no free will theory, cause and effect, tao) An atom is equal to us therefore it can have a identity.

[Aqua_angel]

oh boy what have i started here :)
I think that religion was created so that we just give in and stop asking and trying to prove the mystery...because in the end nobody can prove that GOD exists. Many people tried and spent their whole life...and still do....but in the end they come to conclusion that there are only suspicions, theory, but no facts from a scientific point of view. But then how can u explain people that can see dead people and communicate with people that died. Still there is a gap, darn it.
As for our purpose i think our purpose is to take care of the planet earth and make sure we carry on its existance...like make sure we create the balance on earth therefore makin a balance in the universe. Thinkin maybe those molecules :D are as busy as us makin a living :) joke ;)

[MidnightSun]

Well actuattly there are theories that explains talking with dead ppl and seeing future.

Oh and I think that science and beliefs/religion shouldnt disagree each other, that would be perfect harmony and the clearest asnwer to our questions. Science and religion might fit, thats what my personal experience proved for me.

And atom cannot choose how he should live, coz it has no brains ,no inteligence, its only physics working here. But we can, its our decision, we can make a choice of what where and how to do.

[locomotive]

Originally posted by @--
And atom cannot choose how he should live, coz it has no brains ,no inteligence, its only physics working here. But we can, its our decision, we can make a choice of what where and how to do.
Do we choose? Is our intelligence but a mirror where the universe is seen. Isn't the subconscious a entity that like a atom is driven by physics of the world? No free will thats where I am coming from.

[MidnightSun]

I agree with u psyche.

Oh and i werent saying that we have free will. Somel, greater inteligence gave us a chance of choose (its a lil chance of course), maybe it had a reason why.

[locomotive]

could you please refrais that.

[MidnightSun]

I just believe that there is a reason we are here, a mission to do. Hopeless, foolish thoughts u might say? Perhaps.

[locomotive]

Why do you think so midnight?

[scameter]

I think and speculation is an illustration of intelligence and human creativity, no matter if it is true or not. :)

[locomotive]

nice :thumbsup:

[Smurf]

well that reason is nothing! :P :D

[scameter]

:P

[Venus]

To Aqua-angel- I think the same- and said the same. Yet in my heart I do believe in some form of god/s. That could be insecurity, requiring something superior to depend upon when I'm weak.
And/or just an answer like you said. There are two sides to the coin to me. I believe religions (not nessicarly all of them) could have been invented for order, peace and an answer to difficulties. But I still believe in something.

I agree with Scameter and MidnightSun.

[locomotive]

nothing? cool

[Venus]

What do you mean locomotive? Was that towards my previous post?

[locomotive]

no it was to smurf. Ow and your uncertainty is weird

[Smurf]

uncertainty means humanity. reminding we are imperfect. :thumbsup:

and yes locomotive what is perfect?

[Venus]

Oh, sorry locomotive. The uncertainty is my honest view. I lean towards the monotheist view on things.

About perfection- to me it doesn't exist. What might be perfect to one person might not really suit another...

[Venus]

Lol... I didn't mean in that respect...

[locomotive]

Well I find it weird that you don't know what it is you believe and why.
you can be certain about things, it's just when you conclude to soon that you may be wrong.

[scameter]

And I find it weird that you claim her uncertainty is weird, locomotive, as well as that you claim some things are certain. Nothing is certain or perfect; the reason geometry, as with other conceptual/symbolic entities, seem perfect is because we mentally sculpt them to be, so of course they would appear perfect. To us, they are.

[deepakgang]

Human life is very short. The jévas are
like travelers at an inn, and they should use this brief span of life
to prepare themselves for their ultimate destination.
It would be sheer foolishness if travelers staying in an inn were so caught upwith improving the conditions of their stay that they forgot theirdestination.
The more one’s involvement with material knowledge
increases, the more one’s time for spiritual matters dwindles.
I am convinced that material knowledge should be used only as
much as it is needed to maintain one’s livelihood. There is nonecessity for excessive material knowledge and its companion,material civilization. For how many days will this earthly glitter
remain?



--From Jaiva Dharma

[locomotive]

yeah deepak but you can also be interested in material whatever, the lesson is not to be attached to it.



If you said yes and then you are not certain if you said yes or no. You look at a tv and you are not certain if you are now looking at it or maybe you are looking at a dinosaur. wtf?
confusion is weird.

Explain please how something isn't certain.

[Venus]

My uncertenity is due to me still deciding my relgion.
I feel that I cannot be a buddhist, pagan and Jesuit at the same time. Though that is really what I am.

Well with certainty I see it as a fact-truth. But there is a fact that Joesph Priestley dicovered Oxygen- but some poor soul might have their discovery "glory" stolen. Somelse, for all we know, could have discovered oxygen. Or the man might have used a nom de plume.
Oxygen might have been called "Puelit" for all we know....
That's how I see it.
Was that the answer you were asking for?

[MidnightSun]

Yes, i dont really know which religion/philosophy i belong to.

[locomotive]

I thought you said that you didn't know what it was that forms your belief..
That is an example of judging to soon if your judging was that no one had discovered oxygen as a seperate thing. Beeing proud that you were the first to document it would be correct.
I saw a banana and I am certain of it. Yes you could say I saw a bunch of molecules but that is not what I am telling you. I am saying that I saw the banana, with everything included that is required to see a banana and what a banana is. If someones reality was different he could explain to me what he saw. The thing we both saw was the same because it was in the same dimensions or we wouldn't be looking at the same thing. it is certain that there is a form that I call banana where banana is a parameter of events and forms.
It wasn't a question really I already have my view of it, I am interested in yours and since sometimes it isn't explained...

[Venus]

Oh sorry. I do find it difficult to explain myself sometimes.
I'm not going to assume what Scameter said.
Yes there is a certain in everyday life but anything beyond that might not really be. That's my view.

[scameter]

I mean that nothing is certain because life is entirely individually relative. We know nothing for certain. We think we know that this life exists, but we could eventually discover that it doesn't; that it was anything from being a mere reflection of nothingness, or that we are being held captive by aliens and are being brainwashed. I mean, who knows? Anything is possible. People just usually don't care to see that, which is why we are such a narrow-sighted race.

[Venus]

Thank you Scameter, that's what I was trying to explain.

[locomotive]

This whole debate arose from me finding it weird or not normal or not how you yourself would like it to be that you don't know what went on in your mind (not talking about atoms and such) .
The point I was trying to make scam was that it doesn't matter if the banana is just a hologram, it is still certain that you see a banana whatever it is made out of. That is what you can be certain of. But be carefull to make conclussion to fast concerning if it is solid or not. If you are talking about things like what is the truth of truths(certainties) Then you can go on and on and on until you know or at least to the extend you are happy of what it is.
I believe all the taoist and whatever want to show you that it is ridiculous to cling to knowhow because it can change, it doesn't necessarily aply to other things; accept and move on, leave the suckers in the past don't worry about gas just put the pedal to the metal and such.

[Venus]

Oh, I'm very sorry.

[MidnightSun]

Diffrent dimensions in one space.

[scameter]

*agrees with midnight* Well locmotive, I'm going to be honest: the last bit about Taoism I didn't particularly understand. It seemed to me that you were trying to say something, but your compilation of it wasn't discernable to me. I'm sorry.