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sushil_yadav
28th August 2005, 10:15 AM
[Please note : This article is directly related to Buddhism, Meditation, Peace and Spirituality]

The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.

The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.


Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.


When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.

There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.

Emotion ends.

Man becomes machine.


A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.


Fast visuals/ words make slow emotions extinct.

Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys emotional circuits.

A fast (large) society cannot feel pain / remorse / empathy.

A fast (large) society will always be cruel to Animals/ Trees/ Air/ Water/ Land and to Itself.


I am trying to get the following experiment conducted in a psychophysiology/ bio-chemistry laboratory.

There is a link between visual / verbal speed ( in perception, memory,
imagery ) and the bio-chemical state of the brain and the body.

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual and verbal processing
associated with the emotion slows down ( stops / freezes ).

The degree of difficulty of an emotion depends upon the degree of
freezing (of visuals and words ) required to intensify and sustain that
particular emotion.


Experiment:

Subjects (preferably actors specialising in tragedy / tragic roles )
will be asked to watch a silent video film showing any of the
following:-

(1) Human suffering.
(2) Animal suffering.
(3) Suffering ( Destruction ) of Air / Water / Land / Trees.

Subjects will be asked to intensify and sustain the subjective feeling of pain/ grief for the sufferer.

The chemical changes associated with the emotion in the body(blood) would be measured by appropriate methods.

The silent video film will be shown at different speeds :
(1) 125% of actual speed.
(2) Actual/real speed.
(3) 75% of actual speed.
(4) 50% of actual speed.
(5) 25% of actual speed.


Results :

(1) Intensity of emotion increases with the decrease in visual speed.
(2) Intensity of emotion is maximum when visual speed is minimum (25%
of actual speed)
(3) The amount of chemical change associated with the emotion in the
body(blood) will be found to increase with the decrease in visual speed.
(4) The chemical change is maximum when visual speed is minimum.
(5) The amount of chemical change will increase with the decrease in
breathing rate. Breathing becomes so slow and non-rhythmic that it stops
for some time at the inhalation/ exhalation stages.

The above co-relations will be valid for all subjects -even for those who cannot feel pain/ grief. Such subjects will experience emotion associated with boredom/ discomfort/ restlessness/ irritability/ uneasiness. The chemicals released will be different but the co-relation between visual speed and amount of chemical will be same( the breathing rates will be different/ fast). All subjects will experience some kind of emotion.

[If scientists can discover 4000 different chemicals in cigarette-smoke then they can certainly detect the few chemicals released in blood when weexperience higher-level emotions like pain, empathy, compassion, remorse etc… ]

In the 2nd stage of experiment we shall replace the silent video film with a Narrator ( Audio only ) and repeat the procedure thereby establishing the link between intensity of emotion and verbal speed. The narrator will slow down verbal speed by-- speaking slowly, stretching words, repetition of words/ sentences & making use of
pause/ silence between words.

Please note:
(1) A thinking mind cannot intensify / sustain any emotion.
While this statement is generally true for all emotions, it is particularly true for all painful emotions.

(2) Pain / remorse / empathy cannot be experienced in a society in which visual (verbal) speed and breathing- rates are fast . It is impossible.


PROOF.
Proof of the link between pain and slow visuals / words :-

In the last century man has made thousands of movies / films on various
themes / subjects. Whenever pain / tragedy is shown in any film the
visuals ( scenes ) and words ( dialogues ) are always slowed down. In
many films tragedy is shown in slow motion. At the most intense moment
of pain the films almost become static / stationary.

Tragedy-films provide direct proof / evidence of the link between pain
and slowness.

Pain can intensify / sustain only when visual ( and verbal ) speed slows
down( stops/ freezes).


Change in visual speed over the years.

One thousand years ago visuals would change only when man physically
moved himself to a new place or when other people ( animals / birds )
and objects ( clouds / water ) physically moved themselves before him.

Today man sits in front of TV / Computer and watches the rapidly
changing visuals / audio.

He sits in a vehicle ( car / train / bus ) and as it moves he watches
the rapidly changing visuals.

He turns the pages of a book / newspaper / magazine and sees many
visuals / text in a short span.


Change in verbal speed over the years.

In ancient times verbal processing was “live” in nature—ie it happened when people actually spoke.
Today there is non-stop verbal processing inside the mind through print and electronic media ( newspapers, books, magazines, radio, television, computer etc…) as a result of which the verbal content & speed has increased thousands of times.


The speed of visuals ( and words ) has increased so much during the last
one hundred years that today the human brain has become incapable of
focussing on slow visuals /words through perception, memory, imagery.

If we cannot focus on slow visuals / words we cannot experience emotions associated with slow visuals /words.



Before the advent of Industrial Revolution Man's thinking was primarily
limited to :

(a) visual processing ( slow visuals )
(b) verbal / language processing ( slow words )

Today there are many kinds of fast thinking :

(1) visual processing ( fast visuals )
(2) verbal / language processing ( fast words )
(3) Scientific / Technical thinking ( fast )
(4) Industrial thinking ( fast )
(5) Business thinking ( fast )

(3), (4) & (5) are associated with Numbers / Symbols / Equations /
Graphs /Circuits / Diagrams / Money / Accounting etc…

As long as the mind is doing this kind of thinking it cannot feel any
emotion - not an iota of emotion.

In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
In a thinking ( scientific / industrial ) society emotion itself becomes extinct.

Emotion is what remains in the mind when visual/ verbal processing slows down (stops/ freezes)


There are certain categories of people who feel more emotion (subjective experience ) than others.

If we attempt to understand why (and how ) they feel more emotion we can learn a lot about emotion.

Writers, poets, actors, painters ( and other artists )

Writers
Writers do verbal ( and associated visual) processing whole day- every day.
They do slow verbal ( and associated visual) processing every day.
(A novel that we read in 2 hours might have taken 2 years to write. This is also the reason why the reader can never feel the intensity & duration of emotion experienced by the writer )

Poets
Poets do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. There is more emotion in poetry than in prose. This happens because there are very few words ( and associated visuals ) in poetry than in any other kind of writing. There is a very high degree of freezing / slowing down of visuals & words in poetry.

Actors
Actors do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. During shooting / rehearsal they repeat the dialogues ( words ) again and again ( the associated visuals / scenes also get repeated along with the dialogues )

Painters
Painters do visual ( and associated verbal ) processing whole day- every day. They do extremely slow visual processing - The visual on the canvas changes only when the painter adds to what already exists on the canvas.


There are some important points to be noted :

All these people do visual & verbal processing - whole day - every day.
They do slow visual & verbal processing.
They do not do scientific / industrial / business processing whole day - every day.

Most of the city people doing mental work either do this kind of mental processing which is associated with Numbers / Symbols/ Equations / Graphs / Circuits / Diagrams / Money / Accounting etc… or they do fast visual ( verbal ) processing whole day - every day.

This kind of thinking ( processing ) has come into existence only during the last 200 years and has destroyed our emotional ability ( circuits ).


Once we speed up our minds we become incapable of slowing down [it would take years of effort to slow down]. One can understand it this way - A supercomputer cannot process at the rate of an ordinary computer. Once we speed up [and we have been speeding up for several generations now] we cannot slow down because the neural circuits get altered - the bio-chemistry of the brain and its anatomy changes.



Self-Assessment of ( subjective ) intensity of emotion is almost always wrong.

Suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of a particular emotion that
can be experienced by any human being is 100 units.

Let us suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of that particular emotion ever
experienced by two people A & B in their entire life is :
A - 100units
B - 20 units

Now suppose A & B are made subjects on a particular day and are asked
to feel that particular emotion under experimental conditions ( or
outside the laboratory ) and the intensity &duration they actually experience is :

A - 90 units
B - 18 units

If A & B are then asked to indicate the intensity &duration of emotion on a scale
of 0 -10 their response is likely to be ;

A - 9
B - 9

Who is right and who is wrong ?
A is right.
B is wrong - B is wrong by a wide margin - B has experienced an
intensity(and duration) of 18 units out of a maximum of 100 units and his correct / actual score should be 1.8

Self- assessment ( self rating ) can be accurate only if people have
the capacity to experience the highest intensity &duration ( units ) of the
particular emotion under study.



In small(slow)agriculture-based societies the mind used to experience a state of emotion all the time because of physical work and slow visual/verbal processing . People who do physical work experience the same good subjective-feeling which is experienced by people who do physical excercise. [People who do physical work also sleep much better than people who do mental work - the quality of sleep is much better]. If we read one thousand-year-old literature we will not come across the term "boredom" - the concept of boredom did not exist in slow societies. There were long gaps between different visuals and between words/ sentences - and people had the ability to experience/ tolerate the gaps - it was normal for them.

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual / verbal processing slows down ( stops / freezes ). In an Industrial (thinking) society people experience very little emotion because of fast ( visual / verbal / scientific / industrial / business ) thinking.

Suppose the maximum intensity and duration of a particular emotion ( for most people ) in a fast society has reduced to 5 units ( from 100 units that people used to experience in earlier /slower societies ).

If such people experience 4 units of emotion they will give themselves a
rating /score of 8 on a scale of 0-10 whereas their actual score should
be 0.4


[Please note :
Fast emotions =emotions associated with fast visuals/fast words/fast breathing/fast heart-rate.
Slow emotions=emotions associated with slow visuals/slow words/slow breathing/slow heart-rate.
Rate of thinking=number of visuals/words processed per minute.
Gaps between thinking =gaps between visuals/ words/ sentences.]


Thoughts and Emotions are interlinked - but different things - totally/ completly different.

Words can be spoken - words can be read - words can be heard.

Emotion is a subjective-experience. Other examples of subjective experience are taste, smell, touch, headache, stomach pain.

One can understand the difference this way :

When we eat an apple we can feel the taste of apple. Apple can give us the taste of apple - but apple is not taste.

If we pour apple juice into a glass - the glass will not feel the taste - it does not have the ability to feel taste.

If a person eats an apple he will feel the taste - because he has the ability to generate taste from apple.

Words/ Visuals can evoke, intensify and sustain emotions - but words/ visuals are not emotions.



In every field there is easy work/activity and difficult work/activity.

In mathematics there is easy mathematics and difficult mathematics. Everyone can add 2+4 within microseconds. A PhD level problem of mathematics would take hours [or more] to solve - and that too only by someone who has spent 20 - 25 years learning mathematics upto PhD level.

Same way in the field of emotions there are easy emotions and difficult emotions. Easy emotions are evoked within nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds - anger, lust, fear, pleasure, entertainment and excitement are some examples. These emotions are associated with fast breathing and heart-rate. These emotions don"t require gaps between thinking to evoke, intensify and sustain. These are the emotions that can be found everywhere in today's fast society.

Then there are difficult emotions - which require ability and years of effort to develop - emotions associated with pain, compassion and peaceful states of mind are some examples. These emotions are associated with slow breathing and heart-rate. These emotions require freezing of thought - freezing of visuals and words - huge amounts of gaps between thinking - to evoke, intensify and sustain.


The experiments I have proposed are primarily meant for those people who understand only the language of science. We don't need experiments to understand that our present lifestyle is destroying our Minds and Environment - the evidence is everywhere - left, right and center. The craze and fetish for science and scientific proof has mainly existed for the last 50 - 100 years. People have lived on this planet for thousands of years without needing scientific proof to understand something. It is Science and Technology that created the consumerist Industrial Society which has led to the destruction of Mind and Nature/ Environment. Who needs more science or more scientific proof. Science is not the solution - Science is the problem.


IQ Vs EQ

IQ always has an element of change in it – IQ is about trying to make/ discover/ invent something new all the time.
Change is an inherent feature of IQ.
IQ is also about thinking more in less time—it involves speeding up of mind. Someone who does more mathematics in less time is considered more intelligent in mathematics. IQ is about change and speed.

EQ is about sustainment of the same feeling/experience over a period of time. When we experience any higher-level emotion for 10 minutes we experience the same feeling( subjective experience) over and over again for 10 minutes.
The( same) feeling can sustain only if there is Repetition.
EQ involves Repetition—Constancy—Sameness.

IQ and EQ are contradictory.
IQ and EQ are opposites.
IQ and EQ are inversely proportional.



(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
(7) When man thinks he makes things.
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).

(9) A thinking species destroys the planet.



Intelligence Is A Curse.

This planet is on the verge of total destruction.

The cause of destruction is – overactivity.
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity]

The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence.
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals]

Intelligence is a curse - a disease - a disability - an abnormality.

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes]



Mental work is injurious to the mind and planet.

Life was never good in the past.

Life will never be good in future.

Life can never be good.


Suffering is a part of life - an inherent feature of life. Suffering can never be eliminated.

There is Physical suffering - There is Mental suffering.

In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria.
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures.


Mental suffering will always exist. It exists in agrarian society. It exists in industrial society. As soon as we stop working we experience mental suffering.

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ]

For most people it is a choice between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land] for makng unnecessary things[Consumer Goods]. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.

If we live a simple life there is individual suffering - but no largescale destruction of Environment.

If we live a consumerist life there is individual suffering - plus largescale destruction of Environment.

The nature of mental work is such that man has to do new mental work every day- in fact he has to do new mental work every moment- Man cannot repeat in the next moment the mental work that he has already done in the previous moment.

A mathematician cannot solve the same problem of mathematics every day- once he has solved it he will be forced to take up a new( unsolved) problem. Even when he is solving one particular problem he has to move from one step to another - there is a continuous change involved -- there is no constancy at any stage.

An engineer cannot design the same machine again and again –once he has made a machine he will try to make changes/ design a new one.

A writer cannot write the same article every day- he will be forced to write something new every day/ every moment (This is also the reason behind endless discussions/ debates/ arguments).


Discussions, Debates and Arguments.

Let us examine how much discussion we are collectively having in Industrial Society every day.

Millions of pages in print – newspapers / books / magazines.
Millions of web-pages on internet every day.

Now add to this all the conversation (discussion) we are having through radio / television / telephone and several other media every day.

And add to this all the discussion we are having through face-to-face interaction.

The volume of discussion per individual in one week is greater than the total discussion someone living in pre-industrial society would have in his entire life.

There is too much discussion in modern society.
Discussion is not solving our problems – discussion itself has become a problem – a gigantic problem.


A society that does mental work will discuss itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will argue itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will debate itself to destruction [extinction]


A society that does mental work can never stop discussions / debates / arguments – it is impossible. It will discuss / debate / argue till the last moment of it’s existence.

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are creations of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are diseases of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.


Discussions / debates / arguments can end only in agriculture-based societies that do physical work.

We cannot do physical-work and mental-work simultaneously.

There is an inverse relationship between physical-work and mental-work.
If one is high [more] the other has got to be low [less]

If we want to do physical work we have to reduce mental activity by the same proportion.
If we want to do mental work we have to reduce physical activity by the same proportion.

There is very little discussion / debate / argument in societies that do physical work - ie, agriculture-based societies - And this is the reason why they are millions of times saner than industrial societies.




Change is an inherent feature of mental work.

Since change is an inherent feature of mental work - a society that does mental work can never be at peace with itself – it is impossible.

A society that does mental work will always be restless.

Only those societies that do physical work [agriculture and related activities] can find contentment and peace.



As long as cities exist we can neither save the environment nor the mind.

To save the [ remaining ] environment from destruction man will have to
return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].

To save the mind from mental diseases man will have to return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].



Criminality and Abnormality.

Industrial Society has collectively killed billions of Animals and Trees [ Remember - plant and animal species developed over a period of millions ofyears]

It has also killed most of Water and Air [ Please note - polluting Water and Air is equivalent to killing Water and Air ]

The soil was not fertile when the earth was created. It became fertile - very slowly - over a period of millions of years. And look what man has done - He has covered millions and millions of hectares of land with cement and concrete. All the land that has been covered with cement and concrete has been killed.

Man has stockpiled thousands of tonnes of highly radioactive nuclear material and nuclear waste which is going to remain highly radioactive and carcinogenic for the next thousands of years - and which has already leaked into the environment hundreds of times.

There is an arsenal of 50,000 nuclear missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.


What could be more criminal than this.
What could be more abnormal than this.

Lawyers and Judges are trying to catch a few criminals.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.




Industrial Society is collectively making millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives [of all kinds] every year – and then it wonders why there is so much violence in this world.

Big Mystery.

If you make millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives on earth they are going to be used on earth – they are not going to be used on Mars.


The entire Industrial Society is a terrorist.
The Military-Industrial-Complex is the real terrorist.
Science and Technology is the terrorist.



Make things
Buy things
Sell things

This is not the purpose of life.

Destroy Shopping Culture.

No one deserves more.
Everyone deserves less.
Life can sustain on earth only when everyone has less.




There was a time when Man knew nothing about the number of species and millions of species existed.
Today Man knows the names of millions of species and nothing is left of the species.



It took millions of years for millions of species to slowly come into existence on earth - and man has decimated all other species.

After destroying millions of highly-developed species on earth Man is today searching for a few molecules of life in outer-space.

If a few microbes, a few molecules of methane / water are found on Mars - it becomes the newspaper headline.

They call it progress.



The following is about to come true.

Nature can exist

(1) before man.
(2) after man.
(3) not with man.



Destruction of environment can be divided into two parts - destruction of environment for producing food - and destruction of environment for making thousands of consumer goods. In pre-Industrial Society people destroyed environment primarily for food. In Industrial Society people are destroying environment for food and consumer goods. If we want to save environment we will have to bring down the second to the minimum level by not making all unnecessary consumer goods.

Environment can be saved only if we stop production of most [ more than
99% ] of the consumer goods we are making today.

Environment cannot be saved by recycling.

The attempt of an industrial society to save the environment by recycling is like shooting someone 10,000 times and then trying to save him by taking out one bullet.


Time is running out for this planet.



Regarding Industrialization there is an important point to be noted. Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy.

Industrial Society is consuming psychiatric drugs/ sleeping pills by tonnes and tonnes.

A very large percentage of the population is surviving on precription drugs, illegal drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.

One-third of the population has become fat like elephants.

People talk about increase in lifespan. What is the use of increased lifespan if people have to resort to Drugs, Alcohol and Cigarettes to pull through life. And just wait a few more years - the average lifespan will soon become zero - human life will cease to exist on earth.



Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth. We would need several planets[earths] to sustain the present lifestyle.

The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

Every man is a serial-killer. The per-capita destruction of Environment - per-capita destruction of Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land is thousands of times greater than what it was 1000 years ago - 500 years ago - 200 years ago.

The Military-Industrial Complex is all set to destroy whatever life and environment that remains on earth.


There is a reason why the two World Wars happened in the recent past and not 1000 years ago?

It was not possible to have world wars 1000 years ago. World Wars became possible only when Science and Technology developed aeroplanes, ships and other carriers which could transport millions of troops and millions of tonnes of weapons[once again a creation of science and technology] from one corner of the globe to another.

And today one does'nt even need all these to fight a war. One just needs to move finger-tips to launch missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.

Right at this moment there are several countries fighting wars with one another. There is internal war going on in almost half of the the countries of the world. All these wars are being fuelled and sustained by billions of tonnes of weapons produced by the Military-Industrial Complex every year.

And it is going to get worse and worse every day.

If you kill one person they call it murder.
If you kill a few hundred they call it terrorism.
If you kill a few million they call it war.

Science and Technology has made this world [millions of times] more violent and unsafe than before.

Science and Technology has produced billions of tonnes of weapons and explosives - chemical, biological and nuclear weapons - millions of tonnes of Radioactive material [ which will soon be used to make dirty bombs - which are going to contaminate the environment for hundreds and thousands of years]. Science and Technology is the real terrorist.


Think Positive.

Psychologists say -- Think Positive.
Politicians say – Think Positive.
Economists say – Think Positive.
Scientists say – Think Positive.
Everyone says – Think Positive.

Arctic ice is melting – Glaciers are melting – Rivers are drying up.
Think Positive.

Fish population in Oceans is down to 1/3 of what it was 100 years ago.
Think Positive.

Pollution levels are going sky-high and valley-deep.
Think Positive.

There used to be millions of members in most species of Animals and Birds. Now they are down to thousands and hundreds.
Think Positive.

Weather is getting more and more irregular and unpredictable.
Think Positive.

Metal everywhere - Concrete everywhere - Plastic everywhere.
Think Positive.


Thinking positive is the height of insanity.
Thinking positive is the height of abnormality.

This is a world that has become completely incapable of feeling Pain, Compassion, Remorse and Guilt.
The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment – and people are thinking positive.


Very soon there will be 1 Animal and 1 Tree left in this world – and people will still be thinking positive.

They will be holding Seminars, Conferences and Global-Summits to save the Environment.




There is an important point which the human-species needs to understand. People think they can save the Environment by doing something.

We can never save the environment by doing something.

It is overactivity that has destroyed environment in the first place.

Human-species is the only one out of millions of species that has indulged in overactivity on this planet [ And for this very reason the human speciesis going to exist on earth for the least amount of time]

And it is not Mild Overactivity – It is Excessive Overactivity – Exponential Overactivity.

We cannot save the environment by doing something.

We can only save it by doing less of what we have been doing - much less of what we have been doing.

If we want to save environment we will have to reduce human activity [overactivity] by 99%.



The Illogical Logic of Man.

A few birds have got infected with bird-flu and Man has started killing millions of birds.
They say birds are a threat to humans.

Sometime ago there was Mad Cow disease and Man started killing hundreds of thousands of cows.
They said cows are a threat to humans.


Ever since Man came into existence - millions of humans with infectious diseases have transferred such diseases to millions of other people - and will continue to infect millions more in future.
Such people are a threat to rest of the people.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all infected people.

It is Man who has killed millions of people in Wars and other forms of Violence – and can kill millions more any time in future.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all people.


It is the human species which is the greatest threat to humans and all other life on this planet - In fact the human species is the only species which is a threat to all life on Earth.

Man has decimated all Animal and Plant species – polluted the Sky and Oceans - and poisioned every square inch of earth.

In a mere 200 - 300 years Industrial Society has destroyed all that Nature laboriously created over a period of millions of years.


Humans pose the greatest threat to other humans.
Humans pose the greatest threat to all other life on earth.

The so-called Rational and Civilized Man should follow the same logic here - and destroy the entire human race.

Please note :

If you indulge in Factory Farming – If you torture the birds – confine millions of them in prison like conditions – depriving them of Sunlight and the freedom to walk and fly – you are creating an environment for the spread of virus and disease.



Lifestyle of Mass Destruction.

Destruction is an inherent feature of Development.

Progress = Destruction of Nature.
Development = Destruction of Nature.

We can have Sustainable Lifestyle.
We cannot have Sustainable Development.

Development can never be sustainable.
Sustainability and Development cannot exist together.

Development and Sustainability are opposites.
Development and Sustainability are contradictory.

Sustainable Living is associated with consuming less – being satisfied with a simple and frugal life.
Development is associated with never ending desires – always wanting more.

Sustainable lifestyle requires Constancy.
Sustainable lifestyle requires Sameness.
Sustainable lifestyle requires Repetition.

Development is associated with Change.
Development is associated with New.
Development is associated with Transience.

Industrial Societies can never be sustainable – When you make thousands of consumer goods you kill Nature - you kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land.

A Society that does mental work [city based] can never be sustainable - it will keep on making consumer goods - destroying the environment moment by moment.

Only agriculture-based societies that do physical work can be sustainable.


The term Sustainable Development is like the terms

Stationary Walk.
Silent Talk.
Wakeful Sleep.
Dark Sun
Gentle Torture.
Dry Rain.
Peaceful War.



There was a time when Man used to say –

I work in order to feed my family.
I work in order to put Food on the Table.

Today man is putting a lot more than Food on the Table.

Cars, Computers, ipods, Aeroplanes, 200 TV Channels, Luxury Yatchs, Caribbean Vacations, Palatial Homes, Video Phones, Designer Clothes, Designer Drugs, Cosmetic Surgery …………… The list is endless.


Man is putting thousands of consumer goods and services on the Table.
There is too much weight on the Table.
And the Table has begun to creak.


The more you put on your table the more you take out from the mouths of Animals and Birds.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Animals and Trees.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Water, Air and Land.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Mountains and Valleys.

The more you put on your table the more you kill the Sky and Oceans - the Rivers and Lakes.


There are so many things on the Table that one can barely see the Food.

We need just a few things to live.
And we are making thousands of things.

Billions of people are engaged in making, buying and selling of thousands of consumer goods.


Destroy Shopping Culture.

Go back to Simple Living.
Go back to putting just Food on the Table.


sushil_yadav

[I am seeking help from volunteers in spreading this message far and wide]

sushil_yadav
21st June 2007, 11:25 AM
Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself. Car, Computer, Aeroplane, Rocket - if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore.

Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment. Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest.

The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed. If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it.

sushil_yadav

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
PlanetSave (http://www.planetsave.com/ps_mambo/option,com_simpleboard/Itemid,75/func,view/id,68/catid,6/)
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scameter
21st June 2007, 11:31 AM
I don't think it destroys the mind really. Course, what could besides death or irreparable insanity? It does change the mind, but from what? Our mind is mostly potential at birth anyways. So what could be said to be the mind's truly natural state?

sushil_yadav
21st June 2007, 11:40 AM
scameter,

The topic "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment" refers to destruction of environment and increasing restlessness of mind.

Industrial Society is destroying the Environment and making our Minds more and more restless.

sushil_yadav

PlanetSave (http://www.planetsave.com/ps_mambo/option,com_simpleboard/Itemid,75/func,view/id,68/catid,6/)
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Corrupt (http://www.corrupt.org/transcendence/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1167537083)

scameter
21st June 2007, 11:51 AM
Ok...

Michael
21st June 2007, 04:39 PM
I must concur most powerfully with your position, sushil_yadav.

It is something which preoccupies me greatly. I am constantly bemused by the refusal of people to see what is self-evident. We have been damaged, we have lost two essential connections, to nature and to our true selves and we are destroying the world.

I believe this reflects much of what you are saying:

The Voices of Silence

In the holy silence of this place
I hear different inward voices speak
And learn their natures clear.
I hear the mad scythe of the mind
I use to cut my way through life,
Sharp and quick and never still,
Which pretends to speak to God
While addressing it’s own will.

Then, when I am very still,
Behind the cutting of the blade
Another voice can just be heard,
The quiet voice of the spring
That murmurs to the harvest field,
The voice that repeats, “Hush harvester,
Hush in the rush of the world,
Cease your haste and cease your will –
Listen quiet and be still.”

Sharp, the blade replies,
“What time have I
For the babbling of a spring,
What care I from whence you came,
The world waits not on the harvest
Nor on the harvester,
I must get the grain I reap to market.
I have no time to listen,
I have only time to work”.

Two voices,
One from the heart,
Rising from the ground of love,
Which slacks the thirst
Of plants and harvester
The other, long my master,.
Mimic of all things, even God,
Deaf to everything but itself,
A madman in it’s own asylum.

And then, beyond, another voice,
Hardly a voice at all,
The voice that gives
The spring its voice,
The voice that utters silence,
Which in that silence
Blesses spring and harvester alike.

scameter
22nd June 2007, 11:40 AM
Do you think you are more capable of seeing what is "self-evident" than are other people Michael?

Michael
23rd June 2007, 02:40 PM
Do you think you are more capable of seeing what is "self-evident" than are other people Michael?

Scam, I am frequently astonished and alarmed at how frequently I am unable to perceive the elephants that are jumping up and on my toes.

When I said 'self-evident' I had a broad range of issues in mind.

For example, it should be 'self-evident' that the constant growth premis that lies behind capitalism is an impossibility. Yet people go on believing it in.

From the begining it was 'self-evident' what was going to happen in Iraq, although it now has become even worse than might have anticipated.

It is 'self'evident' that we are running out of fossil fuels, yet the general population can't buy SUV's - for example - fast enough.

It is 'self-evident' that Western capitalism, over-production and greed are destroying the earth's resources, yet now the billions of China and India are accelerating that particular band wagon.

On a more personal scale, a couple of days ago I was a train the runs along the coast between Dalkey and Killiney in South County Dublin. That particular bay has been compared to the Bay of Naples, but lovelier because it is not built up. The views from the train are spectacular. I always make a point of sitting facing the engine on the bay side of the train. On this particular journey a pair of tourists were sitting on the other side of the carriage. They were tired, she was resting her head on his shoulder. He was reading a tourist guide to Dublin. I saw him glance out the window once, then is eyes again descended to his tourist Guide to Dublin.

I hope that goes someway to answering your question regarding how I see myself, Scam. But you will only find in me what you want to find.

scameter
25th June 2007, 10:31 AM
I hope by what I said you didn't think I was critisizing you. Obviously, all great prophets and philosophers and scientists and writers and many others in the past and present all thought they at least had something they knew that was valuable enough to show to others, some insight into life or some important new creation to show. Think you see something, and/or that life is self-evident to you, is not bad. It's just a belief. It's also not always a very pleasurable way to live, where life is self-evident to you. The truth can be quite painful, especially when no one else accepts you or your insights.

Michael
25th June 2007, 09:56 PM
sushil_yadav's deserves to be followed up. Though perhaps it migh be more appropriate in a psychology forum.

It seems to me that the collective Western mind, and the mind of those Eastern countries where our value systems have taken hold, is indeed restless. This I ascribe to its increasing unwillingness to properly face and address the many problems it has created for itself. The mind is madly running around trying to deny reality. This applies both to the collective and the individual.

However, I'm not sure about the 'destructive' response called for. Such actions cause reactions and we have more than enough reactive waves to contend with at the moment.

The comment on'shopping culture' is also interesting. One of my pet peeves is the demise of the small shop and shop owner. These were the grass roots of our culture where people actually talked and exchanged ideas. It's rather like the brain losing a large chunk of its synaptic network, by-passing the emotional centres, or the right brain, and leaving the work to the left brain.

We see the result of this increasing imbalance being played out in almost every aspect of life today, not excluding TBV.

On the avoidance issue, it's remarkable how few responded to sushil_yadav's
post.

Scam, I did think you were being somewhat confrontational. But I should talk? As to what is 'self-evident', the subject under discussion was the material, socio- economic 'real world'. In that context when people can't see the self-evident it is frustrating more than hurtful. Morever, it is dangerous, especially when there's a train coming at you down the line!


You said:
The truth can be quite painful, especially when no one else accepts you or your insights.

Only you have to accept your own truths. Be polite, offer the food of your thought, but don't demand that others eat it. Give yourself and them space. Observe the distance between yourself and your thoughts and you will find that the need to identify with them, whether they are right or wrong, diminishes, so that the ego-attachment to thought lessens and your thoughts become freer to move about, expand, free of the constraints of ego. It really is surprising what happens, but still it doesn't stop life merry-go-round going up and down.

That doesn't deny the pain of being misunderstood or rejected, it is painful. But the practise outlined just might ease that pain a little :)

bito
26th June 2007, 01:00 AM
Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.

:thumbsup:

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

When mind is believed to be the 'house' of intelligence, destruction follows, for thought is then connected with intelligence. Hitler used thought as if was intelligence, and those who also believed thought to be intelligence, believed Hitler's idea of "The Superior Race".

It is not intelligence that is the biggest cause/source of destruction, it is the confusing of thought with intelligence. Intelligence is pure. Intelligence is.

When there is realization that thought is information only and to be attached to thought is to be attached to information there is an understanding of how silly is this attachment to information. Information is not life. Life is not information. Life uses information for the well being of life. Simple, but so few see this simplicity.

Always, it comes back to using thought erroneously.

Perhaps the internet will cure this chronic attachment to information. With information being so instantly available, it is becoming increasingly difficult to sustain attachment to opinion, view and perception.

sahyo
26th June 2007, 02:19 AM
It is not intelligence that is the biggest cause/source of destruction, it is the confusing of thought with intelligence.

not "confusing of thought with intelleigence", but identification with thinking (imagining) as if a center (i-me),
wanting to protect, which is thought 'a sufferer', from suffering

Michael
26th June 2007, 02:27 AM
Yes, yes, yes, but the man meant mental 'intelligence' in terms of thinking, ego-based, IQ intelligence, the brain, computing.

Sahyo, you can't expect everybody to think in your quantum terms. It's verging on fanaticism. Reach out a little, show compassion, understand without everybody having to UNDERSTAND. I'm not saying you're not right. But I am saying there's being right and being RIGHT. And sometimes it's more compassionate to be right (if that makes any sense at all) :)

sahyo
26th June 2007, 03:49 AM
Yes, yes, yes, but the man meant mental 'intelligence' in terms of thinking, ego-based, IQ intelligence, the brain, computing.

"thinking, ego-based, IQ intelligence, the brain, computing." not intellegence :)

Sahyo, you can't expect everybody to think in your quantum terms.

"expect"?

"quantum terms"?

Reach out a little, show compassion, understand without everybody having to UNDERSTAND.

you can't know if compassioning or not, can't know not if expecting understanding or not

I'm not saying you're not right. But I am saying there's being right and being RIGHT.

not 'intention' you stated


:)

bito
26th June 2007, 04:19 AM
not "confusing of thought with intelleigence", but identification with thinking (imagining) as if a center (i-me),
wanting to protect, which is thought 'a sufferer', from suffering

I-me believes that displaying thinking is a show of intelligence, as if intelligence and thought display belongs to I-me. "See how smart I am!" :lol:

Michael
26th June 2007, 04:26 AM
As I recall you expressed that you were attempting to distrupt normal thought patterns in order to let a little light in,to wake up the reader.

From where I'm sitting you're only encouraging the intellectual process by opposing it. Your more oblique posts certainly kick my unscrambling mechanisms into gear.

And yes, the intention is compassionate, but I said more compassionate. :)

Now where was this thread?

sahyo
26th June 2007, 04:27 AM
I-me believes that displaying thinking is a show of intelligence, as if intelligence and thought display belongs to I-me. "See how smart I am!" :lol:

It is not intelligence that is the biggest cause/source of destruction, it is the confusing of thought with intelligence.


are saying that the confusion were referring? :)

Michael
26th June 2007, 04:28 AM
I-me believes that displaying thinking is a show of intelligence, as if intelligence and thought display belongs to I-me. "See how smart I am!" :lol:

Guilty! But my intentions are good.

bito
26th June 2007, 04:33 AM
Yes, yes, yes, but the man meant mental 'intelligence' in terms of thinking, ego-based, IQ intelligence, the brain, computing.

If Michael is referring to bito's post, then no, no, no :) was not saying that.

Intelligence is buddha nature, original nature, intuition.

Thought is information that is used by intelligence. If bito is paralyzed and cannot move her body and is hungry, bito will use thought to bring food to her body. "Hey, Michael, bring me chocolate cake and champagne!" :D

If bito has an ingrown toenail, bito uses thought to call the chiropodist so as to have it cut out. :cry:

As for sahyo's words to bito :loveyou:

bito
26th June 2007, 04:51 AM
the torrent of information shakes loose 'foundations'

you flow with the flow or drown

If psyche was saying that bito was saying that can flow with thought or that thought flows, this is not what bito was saying.

Bito is saying that thought arises when needed for well being of body (see post to Michael - chocolate cake) :delicious:

Flow is idea that energy moves by thought, or with thought. This is an illusion of mind. Energy is. Thought is a handy tool, no more, no less.

Energy. Intuition. Intelligence. Awareness. Silence. No need to go or flow ...:)

scameter
26th June 2007, 08:45 AM
sushil_yadav's deserves to be followed up. Though perhaps it migh be more appropriate in a psychology forum.

It seems to me that the collective Western mind, and the mind of those Eastern countries where our value systems have taken hold, is indeed restless. This I ascribe to its increasing unwillingness to properly face and address the many problems it has created for itself. The mind is madly running around trying to deny reality. This applies both to the collective and the individual.

However, I'm not sure about the 'destructive' response called for. Such actions cause reactions and we have more than enough reactive waves to contend with at the moment.

The comment on'shopping culture' is also interesting. One of my pet peeves is the demise of the small shop and shop owner. These were the grass roots of our culture where people actually talked and exchanged ideas. It's rather like the brain losing a large chunk of its synaptic network, by-passing the emotional centres, or the right brain, and leaving the work to the left brain.

We see the result of this increasing imbalance being played out in almost every aspect of life today, not excluding TBV.

On the avoidance issue, it's remarkable how few responded to sushil_yadav's
post.

Scam, I did think you were being somewhat confrontational. But I should talk? As to what is 'self-evident', the subject under discussion was the material, socio- economic 'real world'. In that context when people can't see the self-evident it is frustrating more than hurtful. Morever, it is dangerous, especially when there's a train coming at you down the line!


You said:
The truth can be quite painful, especially when no one else accepts you or your insights.

Only you have to accept your own truths. Be polite, offer the food of your thought, but don't demand that others eat it. Give yourself and them space. Observe the distance between yourself and your thoughts and you will find that the need to identify with them, whether they are right or wrong, diminishes, so that the ego-attachment to thought lessens and your thoughts become freer to move about, expand, free of the constraints of ego. It really is surprising what happens, but still it doesn't stop life merry-go-round going up and down.

That doesn't deny the pain of being misunderstood or rejected, it is painful. But the practise outlined just might ease that pain a little :)

Awesome then.

scameter
26th June 2007, 08:46 AM
makes perfect sense to me

:cool:

How could it not?

Michael
26th June 2007, 03:30 PM
Awesome then.

Indeed you are :)

scameter
26th June 2007, 03:34 PM
I am? lol I didn't realize.

Michael
26th June 2007, 05:32 PM
There you go with the question marks again :)

sushil_yadav
10th August 2007, 04:31 PM
I must concur most powerfully with your position, sushil_yadav.

It is something which preoccupies me greatly. I am constantly bemused by the refusal of people to see what is self-evident. We have been damaged, we have lost two essential connections, to nature and to our true selves and we are destroying the world.


Michael,

Thanks for expressing your views on the topic. Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. The necessary work of growing/producing Food is being done outside cities - in villages and countryside. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things. The switch-over from Physical work to Mental work/ Desk job has led to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work.

Life was never good in the past.
Life will never be good in future.
Life can never be good.

Suffering is a part of life - an inherent feature of life. Suffering can never be eliminated.
There is Physical suffering - There is Mental suffering.
In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria.
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures.

Mental suffering will always exist. It exists in agrarian society. It exists in industrial society. As soon as we stop working we experience mental suffering.

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly.

There is no higher purpose behind work.
People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort.

This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.
People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ]

For most people the choice is between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.
Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.
Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. Industrial Society is destroying necessary things[Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land] for makng unnecessary things[Consumer Goods]. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.

If we live a simple life there is individual suffering - but no largescale destruction of Environment.
If we live a consumerist life there is individual suffering - plus largescale destruction of Environment.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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ForeignPolicy (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/resources/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2485)

Starry_Canopy
10th August 2007, 09:46 PM
I find all this to be highly theoretical and unproven. Merely repeating some notions over and over again, in different words, doesn't make them true. Also, theories cannot be considered proven only because they appeal to our sense of being humane and good.

Who can say that this is not how we should have developed or continue to develop greater capabilities? Who can say that industrialization was a mis-step? If those who believe it was a mis-step sincerely believe so, why are they not ashamed of taking help of the industrial world to propound their views against it? Somehow, all this seems too corny... something is not right somewhere...

Eery step to where we are now has been taken incrementally to take us to a better state than we were before. It could not have been otherwise as we would not have acted against our own interest. If there are people who deny this, I would challenge them to wear loin cloths and reside in places bereft of modern amneties and then speak their words. Not like this, through the internet and not in such a verbose manner that is so disrespectful of the readers' comfort.

Thomas Knierim
11th August 2007, 09:11 AM
This theory might need some reenigneering. :) It doesn't make much sense to me. First of all, there is no clear-cut division between physical and mental work. Since human beings are endowed with the capacity for thought and planning, mental work is part of all of their actions. Agriculture is certainly no exception, since agriculture relies on technology. The success of agriculture depends very much on using the right raw materials, the right techniques, the right tools, irrigation, planning for the harvest, and so on. Granted there is a difference between plowing a field and for example writing a computer program, as there is a lot more physical work invested in the former activity and a lot more mental activity in the latter. But what does this say about its potential to be destructive to the environment? Pretty much nothing. A primarily physical activity such as logging timber can be extremely damaging to the environment, whereas a primarily mental activity, such as teaching math to first graders, has no environmental impact at all.

The question that matters is to what end physical and mental efforts are being deployed.

Cheers, Thomas

Taeguk
11th August 2007, 10:23 AM
And if we're going to engage in a unilateral condemnation of "technology" and "intelligence", we may as well ask where we're going to draw the line----what about metal tools, aren't those "unnatural" as well? Even wooden implements require the destruction of trees, too! And fire causes all kinds of problems--- :uhoh: Geez, what were our ancestors thinking?!

I'm reminded of a section of Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

This planet [Earth] has---or rather, had---a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much most of the time. Many solutions were suggested to this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movement of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

And so the problem remained: lots of people were mean, and most of them were miserable, even the ones with digital watches.

Many were increasingly of the opinion they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and nobody should ever have left the ocean...

This is not to say that there are not major problems with environmental sustainability. There are. And this is not to say that there are no problems at the very root of "modern technology"----there are. These are real problems, and they need to be explored, addressed and engaged on many different levels simultaneously.

However I think there's a tendency to get swept up by the tragic urgency of the whole thing, and to engage in a sort of hyper-Rousseau-ian anarcho-primitivism that basically seems to be saying leaving the trees was a bad idea. This sort of thing is ridiculous, ignores many obvious facts, and ultimately doesn't solve any of our problems. As Starry Canopy points out, even the advocates of this view just can't seem to get away from technology, since they seem to spend most of their time on the internet writing impassioned diatribes against the evils of "Left Brain Linearalism" and other such pop-psych neologisms. Ultimately this does an immense disservice by cluttering the issues at hand with needless jargon and sweeping generalizations.

nzira
18th August 2007, 05:11 PM
..... So much writing on this post.... get a grip .. i'm the space cadet.

:loveyou: balance it with flowers ......

2 things left to do

1. EVOLVE : Only once we realise that we are the alpha & omega will we be free from the bonds of the material world...

2. DEVOLVE : Go back to the trees, where nature has provided everything .... I do know some vakkerbikkies (spelling?) & rural folk .... they do not rely on the industrial world and always welcome me to their cozy wood-land cabins, with hand made everythings

:wallbash: - thats a wall bash, wheres the Treehug icon !!!!!!!!


Big up to the chimpanzees ... ºjlz

sushil_yadav
23rd July 2008, 09:02 PM
And if we're going to engage in a unilateral condemnation of "technology" and "intelligence", we may as well ask where we're going to draw the line----

This is not to say that there are not major problems with environmental sustainability. There are. And this is not to say that there are no problems at the very root of "modern technology"----there are. These are real problems, and they need to be explored, addressed and engaged on many different levels simultaneously.

In the context of "environmental crisis", "technology" and "consumerism" I would like to give an example.


A person is being stabbed repeatedly at regular intervals - every hour.

Some people are trying to save the victim.

The sane way to save is - you first stop the attack – you prevent the attack.

What these insane people do - they allow the attack to be continued. They don’t stop it -- they don’t prevent it.

Instead, what they do - They say we are going to save the victim by using technology - the best technology - the best medical care.

Bring this technology - Bring that technology.
Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

They give the victim the best technology - the best medical care.

In the meantime the stabbing continues – every hour – even while the best medical care is being given.

One can imagine the fate of the victim.


Ecosystems are getting destroyed due to production of consumer goods.

Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - directly or indirectly. [ more killing of nature takes place when consumer goods are used and discarded]. Industrial society is destroying necessary things - animals, trees, air, water and land for making unnecessary things - consumer goods.

The sane way of saving ecosystems is - you stop production of consumer goods - you reduce production of consumer goods to the minimum level.

But the insane Industrial Society continues producing consumer goods [ in fact production is being increased every day]

The insane response of Industrial Society is - We will save the environment with technology - the best technology.

Bring this technology - Bring that technology.
Bring this technology - Bring that technology.

In the meantime production of consumer goods continues - 3 billion people living in cities are continuously engaged in - making , buying and selling of consumer goods - killing the ecosystems moment by moment.

One can imagine the fate of environment.

Height of Insanity.......Height of Abnormality.

Destroy Industrial Society.....before it is too late.
Destroy consumerism..... before it is too late.

sushil_yadav

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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

sushil_yadav
26th May 2009, 08:51 AM
For several decades environmentalists have been warning modern society that ecosystems are getting destroyed - that consumerist lifestyle is not sustainable.

But modern society which was busy chasing progress, growth and development did not listen. It refused to believe there was any environmental crisis or problem. It said science and technology will always find a solution - if earth gets destroyed we will move on to another planet.

Impossible dreams were sold to people in the name of science and technology.

Moving to another planet would probably rank as the most impossible of all impossible things.

One space shuttle exploded during take off - another exploded on the return journey.

So far man has not been able to go beyond the moon.There is no other life sustaining ecosystem/ planet within the solar system. Outside the solar system planets and galaxies are millions of light years away - billions of light years away.

So when are we moving to a new home ?

Next year - or 5 years later ?

sushil_yadav
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

sushil_yadav
27th June 2009, 09:25 AM
We have been damaged, we have lost two essential connections, to nature and to our true selves and we are destroying the world.


Industrial Society has been spreading blatant lies over the years.

"Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Ethical Consumerism", "Sustainable Development".

These are contradictory terms - these are oxymorons.

Industrialization can never be green - it is impossible.

You cannot save a person after you have killed him.
You cannot save ecosystems after you have killed them for making consumer goods.


When we make consumer goods we kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted. Industry kills Water.

Industries/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel - and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.


We have limited resources/ ecosystems on earth which is just 40,000 km in circumference.

If we destroy ecosystems for fewer things [food, clothing, shelter] the ecosystems will last longer.

If we destroy ecosystems for more things [consumer goods] the ecosystems will finish much sooner.

The fewer things we make the more sustainable we are.

This is common sense - plain common sense - which the so called smart, intelligent, advanced, civilized and developed Industrial Society does not possess.


We are alive because of ecosystems - we owe our very existence to ecosystems.

Industrial Society has destroyed most ecosystems within a span of 250 years after Industrial Revolution.

Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things [animals, trees, air, water and land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].

Ecosystems are not consumer goods that can be manufactured, repaired or restored by MultiNational Companies in industries and factories.

The collapse has already happened for millions of other species. Most of them have been decimated.

Very soon it will be the turn of man to go.


sushil_yadav
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Dan
30th July 2009, 12:15 PM
I see this thread on every forum I go to. Am I going to discover (a la Fight Club) that Sushil and I are the same person?

Thomas Knierim
30th July 2009, 12:26 PM
..or maybe that Sushil is the universe and the universe is talking to us directly? I mean, considering his omnipresence.... :lol:

He has some valid points, but unfortunately he stops at pointing out the problem.

Cheers, Thomas

spiritual_emergency
31st July 2009, 12:00 AM
Dan: Am I going to discover (a la Fight Club) that Sushil and I are the same person?

Hey, don't 'diss my Fight Club thread. It remains one of the best tools I've found for educating people about a schizophrenic process. ;)

As a PS: If you find common ground between you and Sushil, or you and Fight Club, perhaps it's related to a shared cultural component.


.

Life of Luxury
31st July 2009, 08:43 AM
The conclusion that intelligence is a curse nearly denies its premises. How could we arrive at that, or any conclusion for that matter without intelligence? I would never go so far to label intelligence as a curse, although in a certain respect intelligence is poorly defined. Men with degrees often hold volumes of encyclopedic knowledge in their respective fields but lack the critical thinking to apply that knowledge in a useful or non-destructive manner.

Also, it can hardly be said that mankind has been trapped in a perpetual state of misery. Happiness is a timeless. Adjusting to a material society warps one's concept of happiness. Technology teases mankind's insatiable desires for consumption. Remarkably, people once lived happy, fulfilling lives without iPhones and hairdryers. Nowadays half the population would enter a state of incurable manic depression if the 3G network went down. I'll spare you all the dissertation for now.

Otherwise, I'd have to say he is spot on.

Take a quick look at 20th century history and you see a species smart enough to unlock the power of the atom but too stupid to fully realize the destructive potential they unleashed. There is nothing intellectual about suicide and self-initiated extinction.

Life of Luxury
1st August 2009, 03:29 AM
Er, hmm let me clarify my previous comment. I meant to say that the diagnosis is believable. My qualms lie with the proposed solution. Radical change is needed but reverting to a state of primitism is excessive. Very, very excessive. On the other hand, this interpretation may be untrue to the author’s intentions. We eat more than our fill and take more than our share. Unregulated, gluttonous consumption must cease. Learn to be happy with what you have to be happy with or we will all likely have nothing at all.

sushil_yadav
19th August 2009, 08:24 PM
Who can say that industrialization was a mis-step? Eery step to where we are now has been taken incrementally to take us to a better state than we were before.


Take a quick look at 20th century history and you see a species smart enough to unlock the power of the atom but too stupid to fully realize the destructive potential they unleashed. There is nothing intellectual about suicide and self-initiated extinction.

Industrial Society is insane. It believes ecosystems can be saved while it continues to increase "growth rate", "economy rate" and GDP.

City people are the problem - city people are the parasites eating away the ecosystems.

Today 50% of world population - 3 billion people are living in cities. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work, overwork, destructive work - making things, buying things and selling things.

We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we limit our production to food, clothing and shelter [ and health care]. We can still make our remaining ecosystems last longer if we stop production of consumer goods or reduce it to the minimum level.

But the problem here is - what are we going to do with the 3 billion people living in cities most of whom are engaged in making things, buying things and selling things. There is no surplus farm land on earth where these people can be relocated.
All of these people cannot stop activity to do meditation - this requires ability and years of effort. So what do we do with the 3 billion people living in cities - how do we keep them occupied without destroying the ecosystems?

Believing that we can save ecosystems while we continue making consumer goods is like believing we can cure cancer while we continue flooding the environment with thousands of carcinogens.

It is like believing we can have peace in this world while the "Military Industrial Complex" continues to produce and sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

Humans are the destroyers of ecosystems - they are not going to become the saviours of ecosystems.

Asking humans to save environment is like asking petrol to extinguish a fire.


Weather is becoming hotter, irregular and unpredictable across the globe. We have lost most of the forests and a large percentage of ice in Arctic region and glaciers elsewhere. Forests and ice have played a major role in regulating wind speed and direction of wind and monsoon/ rain clouds. Weather patterns were fairly constant for thousands of years. All that is changing now. In India the summer season is no longer the same as before - winters are not the same and monsoon rains are also no longer the same as before.

In the coming years agriculture is going to collapse worldwide due to change and irregularity of weather. Man has already decimated fish in the oceans. There will be nothing left for man to eat. The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Thomas Knierim
20th August 2009, 09:28 AM
Humans are the destroyers of ecosystems - they are not going to become the saviours of ecosystems.

Asking humans to save environment is like asking petrol to extinguish a fire.

I just wonder... if this is your opinion then why take the trouble to lament it and make appeals? I have seen a "Industrial Society Destroys Mind And Environment" thread on almost any Internet forum I have visited so far, which suggests that you have a mission.

If you consider the downfall of humanity and the destruction of the planet inevitable, there wouldn't be much sense in trying to convince people to give up their ways, or am I missing something?

Cheers, Thomas

MRJ
20th August 2009, 11:55 AM
sushil_yadav says "Industrial Society is insane..." and following

You make many observations with which I agree, and the whole list of problems you provide is very daunting, indeed. BUT: there are solutions.

The same industrial technology that has created the ecological problems we face can solve many (but not all) of these problems. There are two root problems:

One is population
Two is the use of fossil fuel

The two are driving each other - Relatively cheap but unhealthy fossil energy allows for the expanding production of food, fiber, construction material, etc. which helps support an expanding population. An expanding population demands more food, fiber, etc. This spiral can go on for a finite period of time without collapsing, but collapse it eventually will. It might reach the fail point this year, next year, or the year after... but eventually it will fail. Frightening prospect? Depressing? Absolutely. Hopeless? Not yet.

We have the humane means to limit population growth. Contraception works and is adoptable nearly everywhere on earth. The technical means are available to produce adequate (if not superabundant) energy which is not derived from fossil fuel. Both of these solutions can be deployed now on a larger scale than we have so far seen.

In time, with diligent application of the best technology we can muster, the level of CO2 in the atmosphere can level off and even begin to decline. Population growth will, with diligent effort, slow, stop, and gradually reverse direction.

Now, let us not deceive ourselves: In a world where getting several dozen people to cooperate can be difficult, getting 6 billion people with highly diverse interests to work together may not be achieved. If we fail, we fail. The population/consumption spiral will collapse, whole populations will be eliminated, and CO2 production will drop, finally.

The task of preaching doom, sushil_yadav, is tricky. You must be convincing enough at doomsaying for people to become alarmed and take you seriously. But you must also practice effective hopesaying and show people HOW doom can be avoided.

If there is no hope, if we are already totally screwed, then hopeless doomsaying is beside the point. You can go home and pray for merciful death.

sushil_yadav
30th August 2009, 08:39 PM
Humans are the destroyers of ecosystems - they are not going to become the saviours of ecosystems.

Asking humans to save environment is like asking petrol to extinguish a fire.

I just wonder... if this is your opinion then why take the trouble to lament it and make appeals? I have seen a "Industrial Society Destroys Mind And Environment" thread on almost any Internet forum I have visited so far, which suggests that you have a mission.

If you consider the downfall of humanity and the destruction of the planet inevitable, there wouldn't be much sense in trying to convince people to give up their ways, or am I missing something?

Cheers, Thomas

I know ecosystems are dying - I have come to accept that there is hardly any chance of saving environment. But I still continue to spread the message of saving nature.

When someone close to us is seriously ill we make all efforts to save him. Even when we know there is hardly any chance to save him we continue making efforts till the very end.

One knows that environment cannot be saved - still one continues to make efforts - because one wants to save environment.

We are alive because of nature - We owe our existence to nature.

We should try to save nature till the very end.

sushil_yadav
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

brother alan
1st September 2009, 05:26 AM
:applause:
ratiocination recurs: alleluia.
We have pretty good telescopes these days, and guess what? The "natural" state of a planet is barren and lifeless. Maybe the universe invented us to rid the earth of her funk. :uhoh:

Life of Luxury
3rd September 2009, 10:13 AM
:applause:
ratiocination recurs: alleluia.
We have pretty good telescopes these days, and guess what? The "natural" state of a planet is barren and lifeless. Maybe the universe invented us to rid the earth of her funk. :uhoh:

I laughed when I read this. A truly laudable conjecture!

sushil_yadav
8th October 2009, 12:27 AM
You make many observations with which I agree, and the whole list of problems you provide is very daunting, indeed.

The task of preaching doom, sushil_yadav, is tricky. You must be convincing enough at doomsaying for people to become alarmed and take you seriously.

What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we compare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.

Economy is a non-issue. Environment is important. Economy will not even exist without environment. Humans will not even exist without environment.

Modern society has plunged to extreme depths of insanity.

Modern society thinks it can be sustainable while it continues producing thousands of consumer goods.

Modern society thinks a peaceul world is possible while it continues to sell billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world.

Modern society thinks cancer can be cured while it continues flooding the ecosystems with thousands of carcinogens.

On a small planet which is just 40,000 km in circumference the first rule of sustainability is - destroy less.

We destroy ecosystems for food - for clothing - for shelter - and for thousands of consumer goods.

The less we destroy - the more sustainable we are.

The fewer things we make - the more sustainable we are.

On a small planet like earth only a non-consumerist society can be sustainable - only a society that destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter[and health care] can be sustainable.


When something goes wrong with our cars, computers and aeroplanes, we contact the manufacturer to know how they could be repaired - where they could be repaired.
All ecosystems on earth are getting destroyed moment by moment. To repair, restore and regenerate them we need to contact the manufacturer. But where is the manufacturer of ecosystems? There is no human manufacturer - There are no multiNational Companies that manufactured rivers and oceans, fertile soil, forests, millions of species, millions of members in millions of species, arctic ice and other glaciers.

About 30 years ago most people refused to believe that arctic ice was melting or could melt in future.

Then satellite pictures started appearing and provided proof with "before and after" pictures. People reluctantly accepted that ice was melting - but were still not alarmed. They said it would take hundreds of years - thousands of years for ice to melt to a dangerous level.

If we compare satellite pictures of arctic ice of this year with those taken 30 years ago we would know how alarming the situation is.

Weather is becoming hotter, irregular and unpredictable across the globe. We have lost most of the forests and a large percentage of ice in Arctic region and glaciers elsewhere. Forests and ice have played a major role in regulating wind speed and direction of wind and monsoon/ rain clouds. Weather patterns were fairly constant for thousands of years. All that is changing now. The summer season is no longer the same as before - winters are not the same and monsoon rains are also no longer the same as before.

In the coming years agriculture is going to collapse worldwide due to change and irregularity of weather. Man has already decimated fish in the oceans. There will be nothing left for man to eat. The human species is going to starve to death. Just wait and see what happens in the next two decades.

Every ecosystem is in grave danger. The doomsday scenario is approaching hundreds of times faster than predicted earlier. The signs - the indicators are already there - the recent climate changes - the extreme weather conditions - droughts, floods, fires, hurricanes and typhoons. The collapse has already happened for millions of other species - they have been decimated. Human collapse is very near - just around the corner.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

sushil_yadav
19th October 2009, 12:24 PM
Very soon science is going to announce the gene for environmental destruction.

Humans are not responsible for environmental destruction - it is the gene.


Humans are not responsible for anything - the genes are responsible for everything.

It is the gene which is responsible for obesity.

It is the gene which is responsible for cancer.

It is the gene which is responsible for violence/ aggression.

It is the gene which is responsible for mental suffering.


When it comes to Olympic Medal they will give it to a person - not to the gene.

When it comes to Nobel Prize they will give it to a person - not to the gene.

When it comes to rewarding work they will pay million dollar salary to the CEO - not to the gene.

When it comes to "Theory of Relativity" they will give credit to Einstein - not to the gene.

sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment