Why I Love God

[venom mama]

i love my creator for the beautiful sunrise that i see each morning, for the walks through the forest that bring me to nature, for the swims in the ocean that cleanse my soul, for the laughter of children that gives me purpose, for the wagging tail of an animal that gives me unconditional love, for the smile that i can give to someone in need, for the stars at night that i wish upon, for the rainbows that show me heaven, for the laughter of my friends and the love of my family.


whatever your books say and whatever your taught by others

if you can't find your creator without the aid of tools.....



it's your loss.

[scameter]

hmm. you sound alot like Heidegger and Zen :lol:

[MidnightSun]

I love God! I love everyone! lol

[scameter]

:D

[venom mama]

beautiful midnight sun :grouphug:

[scameter]

umm by the way, i know it's off topic but i love your signature, venom. everytime i see your replies i notice it. what exactly does it mean, or do you mean it to mean?

[MidnightSun]

first of all ,venom, if that was a compliment thnx lol

futhermore: isnt that race with wind looking for the truth and learning?

[scameter]

i like it whatever it means. but i am curious of what she thinks it means, it is a beautiful short poem. :)

[MidnightSun]

At first I was blind.
Then your sunlight fell upon me
And now I can see it clearly
You’re my life light.

Authors comments: its not a poem ,few beautiful lines dedicated to scameter.

Author: me

:lol:

[scameter]

dedicated to me? :lol: i'm flattered :star: :D

[MidnightSun]

u know ur everything for me :)

dont take it too personal... :lol:

[scameter]

:lol: everything for you? what do you mean?

[MidnightSun]

believe me,u dont want to know :lol:

[scameter]

:lol: no, really, what do you mean?

[MidnightSun]

just think it was a compliment... :think:

[scameter]

oh. :lol: thanks then! :D

[MidnightSun]

:)

and why i love God? I dunno i just love it :)

[MidnightSun]

We're all part of the universe ,part of the God, small grain of it swimming down the river of destiny. (i think it sounds pretty ;))

[scameter]

one droplet in the sea. one revirberation in the ocean. one grain on the beach.

[MidnightSun]

so thats what i was sayin...

[scameter]

:D

[venom mama]

it just means that if you're looking for me, that's where i'll be.

keep up if you can.

[scameter]

i would love to join in with you in your celestial dance, my friend. but i seem to far underground.

[venom mama]

to bad for you.

[Ronagon]

What people mean by "God", is not what religion means by "God".

People only think they know what their religion's God is, because they usually haven't really studied it well enough to know better.

People think of a fair and loving God.

Religion actually specifies a God that toys with, tyrannizes, and exploits people.

If people would actually read their religion's texts thoroughly, they would what their religions are really all about.

[venom mama]

i didn't find my faith in books

i found my creator all by myself





i agree though that most people base their faith ON WHAT THEIR TOLD TO BELIEVE

[MidnightSun]

those people are clever though :lol: ,yes they say that God is who ,who religion tells it is(as they were told to believe that). And they are dum because they find missing spots in religions and not trying to study it, to understand the God.

[scameter]

true venom. but your previous statement seemed rather...manly. "too bad for you"? doesn't really seem like you. or maybe it is. i don't know you. but i hope it wasn't like you. and i hope you didn't take what i said wrongly.

[MidnightSun]

why noone notices me? scameter, u know ,i said something too...

[venom mama]

there wasn't anything mean about it scameter.
it is to bad for you that you choose to stay in the dark and supress yourself.
you could join in on the racing and chasing but you yourself said you're to far underground. climb up out of the dark.


i noticed you midnight and i agree with what you say except the part about understanding god. there is no understanding god.

[MidnightSun]

i didnt meant u can understand it i just meant that ppl must study about it, as u said urself:

i didn't find my faith in books

i found my creator all by myself

Thats completely same what i meant.

Btw thnx for noticing me ;) :lol:

[scameter]

:)

[vicente]

Is it possible to love something that doesn't exist?
http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/beyond/beyond03.htm

Is it possible that so-called positive aspects of our world are not as equally as illusory as the negative ones. That they are not both aspects of a dualistic perceptual universe, which but reflect the dualistic split in the mind of Man.

What is a beautiful sunrise? Is Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? What one deems as beauty, another may find to be aesthetically displeasing, and vice versa. Similarly, what one society judges as good, another may judge as bad and against the common good. This can be evidenced by a careful study of history, sociology, and cultural anthropology. If however we use a criterion of eternal changelessness to define Reality, we can conclude that nothing that the world deems beautiful or good is real, and so it cannot have been created by Reality.

"Therefore, given that both beauty and goodness are relative concepts and thus are illusory, we should follow the injunction to always ask ourselves: "What is the meaning of what I behold?" In other words, even though something beautiful is illusory, it remains neutral, like everything else in the world. Given to the ego, it serves its unholy purpose of reinforcing separation, specialness, and guilt. Given to the Holy Spirit, on the other hand, it serves the holy purpose of leading us to an experience of truth that lies beyond perception. For example, a sunset can reinforce the belief that I can find peace and well-being only while in its presence, or it can help remind me that the true beauty of Man is my Identity, and that this beauty is internal, within my mind and independent of anything outside it."

Can anyone, with any honesty, say there is a god? And if they cannot, why continue to be dishonest?

At the Foundation for Inner Peace (A Course In Miracles), two questions are often heard:


1. If a God did not create the world or the body, who did? Moreover, who are we and how did we get here?

This is among the most commonly asked questions, and is certainly an understandable one. Almost all people believe that they are physical and psychological selves, living in a material universe that pre-existed their coming, and which will survive their leaving. The difficulty in understanding that this is not the case lies in the fact that we are so identified with our individual corporeal selves, that it is almost impossible to conceive of our existence on the level of the mind that is outside the world of time and space.

When the thought of separation seemed to occur, A Course in Miracles explains that man seemed to fall asleep and dream a dream, the contents of which are that oneness became multiplicity, and that the non-dualistic Mind of man became fragmented and separate from its Source, split into insane segments at war with themselves. As the Course explains, these fragments projected outside the mind a series of dreams or scripts that collectively constitute the history of the physical universe. On an individual level, the serial dramas our ego personalities identify as our own personal lives are also projections of our split and fragmented minds.

Thus we are all actors and actresses on the stage of life, as Shakespeare wrote, living out a dream that we experience as our individual reality, separate and apart from Who we really are as Real Self. Moreover, our minds have projected many different personalities in the collective dream of the fragmented little self, complicating the whole process. Therefore, the question "How did we get here?" must be understood from this perspective of the collective and individual dream. In other words, we are not truly here, but are dreaming that we are. As A Course in Miracles states: "[We] are already home, dreaming of exile" (text, 169; T-10.1.2: 1). And this is how the dream seemed to happen:

Into eternity, where all is one, there crept a tiny, mad idea, at which man remembered not to laugh. In his forgetting [to laugh] did the thought become a serious idea, and possible of both accomplishment and real effects (text, p. 544; T-27.VITI.6:2-3).

These "real effects" constitute the physical world we think is our home. The following passage is perhaps the best description in the Course of the process whereby this effect came into existence, once man took seriously the tiny, mad idea that there could be a substitute for Love. As we shall now see, this resulted in the making of the physical universe which is believed to be an opposite to our true Home:

The physical universe substitutes an illusion for truth; fragmentation for wholeness. It has become so splintered and subdivided and divided again, over and over, that it is now almost impossible to perceive it once was one, and still is what it was. That one error, which brought truth to illusion, infinity to time, and life to death, was all you ever made. Your whole world rests upon it. Everything you see reflects it, and every special relationship that you have ever made is part of it.

You may be surprised to hear how very different is reality from what you see. You do not realize the magnitude of that one error. It was so vast and so completely incredible that from it a world of total unreality had to emerge. What else could come of it? Its fragmented aspects are fearful enough, as you begin to look at them. But nothing you have seen begins to show you the enormity of the original error, which seemed to cast you out of Home, to shatter knowledge into meaningless bits of disunited perceptions, and to force you to make further substitutions.

That was the first projection of error outward. The world arose to bide it, and became the screen on which it was projected and drawn between you and the truth. For truth extends inward, where the idea of loss is meaningless and only increase is conceivable. Do you really think it strange that a world in which everything is backwards and upside down arose from this projection of error? It was inevitable (text, pp. 347-48; T- 1 8.1.4:1-6.-5)

But A Course in Miracles further states that the world was made as an attack on Reality (workbook, p. 403; W-pIl.3.2:1), and this was accomplished, again, by the collective split mind of man that believed in its hallucinatory dreaming that it had usurped First Cause. This is the beginning of the ego's unholy trinity that was mentioned above in question 4 on page 4. The guilt over his seeming sin of separation and usurpation demanded that man be punished. Consequently, the fearful man sought to flee from his own insane projection of a wrathful, vengeful Reality who wished to destroy him. Therefore man projected his illusory guilt and fragmented self out of the mind, thereby miscreating a physical world of time and space in which he could hide from the non-physical Reality he believed he had dethroned and destroyed. Within these multiple dreams, the one man appeared to split into billions of fragments, each of which became encased in a body of individual insane dreams, believing that this would render personal "protection" against the ego's image of a wrathful Reality's ultimate punishment.

It is important to note still again that we are speaking about the collective mind of the separated man as the maker of the world. Every seemingly separated fragment is but a split-off part of that original one mind that sought to replace the One Mind of Man. Thus, the individual fragment is not responsible for the world, but it is responsible for its belief in the reality of the world.



2. Does A Course in Miracles really mean that a God did not create the entire physical universe?

We answer this question with a resounding affirmative! Since nothing of form, matter, or substance can be of Source, then nothing of the physical universe can be real, and there is no exception to this. Workbook Lesson 43 states, in the context of perception, which is the realm of duality and separation:

Perception is not an attribute of Source. Perception has no function in Source, and does not exist (workbook, p. 67; W-pI.43.1:1-2; 2:1-2).

In the clarification of terms we find the following crystal clear statement about the illusory nature of the world of perception, which Source did not create:

The world you see is an illusion of a world. Source did not create it, for what Source manifests must be eternal as Itself. Yet there is nothing in the world you see that will endure forever. Some things will last in time a little while longer than others [e.g., the greater cosmos, as we shall see below in a passage from the text). But the time will come when all things visible will have an end (manual, p. 8 1; C-4. 1).
And finally, a similar statement in the text:

Source's laws do not obtain directly to a world perception rules, for such a world could not have been created by the Mind to which perception has no meaning. Yet Sources laws reflected everywhere [through the Holy Spirit]. Not that the world where this reflection is, is real at all. Only because Man believes it is, and from Man's belief He could not let Himself be separate entirely. (text, p. 487; T-25.111.2; italics ours).

These passages are important, because they clarify a source of misunderstanding for many students of A Course in Miracles who maintain that Jesus is teaching that God did in fact create the world. They assert that all the Course is teaching is that he did not create our misperceptions of it. Statements which contain the phrase "the world you see," as in the above passage from the manual for teachers, do not apply simply to the world we perceive through our wrong-minded lens, but rather to the fact that we see at all. Again, the entire physical universe, the world of perception and form, is illusory and outside the Mind of Reality.

Therefore, nothing that can be observed -- nothing that has form, physicality, moves, changes, deteriorates, and ultimately dies -- could be of Source. A Course in Miracles is unequivocal about this, which is why we speak of it as being a perfect non-dualistic thought system: It contains no exceptions. And so the seeming majesty of the cosmos and perceived glory of nature are all expressions of the ego's thought system of separation, as we see in this wonderful passage from the text:

What seems eternal all will have an end. The stars will disappear, and night and day will be no more. All things that come and go, the tides, the seasons and the lives of men; all things that change with time and bloom and fade will not return. Where time has set an end is not where the eternal is (text, p. 572; T-29.VI.2:7- I0).

To attempt to make an exception to this fact is to attempt a compromise with truth, exactly what the ego wants in order to establish its own existence. As it states in the workbook: "What is false is false, and what is true has never changed" (workbook, p.445; W-pII.10.1:1). And again in the text:
How simple is salvation! All it says is what was never true is not true now, and never will be. The impossible has not occurred, and can have no effects. And that is all (text, p. 600; T-31.1.1:1-4).
In conclusion, therefore, no aspect of the illusion can be accorded truth, which means that absolutely nothing in the material universe has come from Reality, or is even known by Reality. Reality is totally outside the world of dreams."

I'll repeat the question,...

Can anyone, with any honesty, say there is a god? And if they cannot, why continue to be dishonest?


Vicente

[MidnightSun]

There is a God, honestly.

[vicente]

There is a God, honestly.

LOL

God (god), n.,
1. A being (condition) conceived as the omnipotent (condition), omniscient (condition) originator and ruler (condition) of the universe (condition), the principal object (condition) of faith and worship (conditions) in monotheistic religions (conditions).
2. The force (condition), effect (condition), or a manifestation or aspect (conditions) of this being (condition).
3. A being of supernatural powers (condition) or attributes (conditions), believed in and worshiped (conditions) by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality (conditions).
4. An image of a supernatural being; an idol (conditions).
5. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed (conditioned).
6. A very handsome man (condition).
7. A powerful ruler or despot (conditions).
8. Used to express disappointment, disbelief, frustration, annoyance (conditions).

According to the English language, all definitions of God are conditions,...conditions change,...honesty and truth are Unconditional, thus Changeless,...belief in a God is neither honest nor true.

But hey,...you are free to believe whatever you wish. I'm only saying that:

belief is always limiting
beliefs suppress, deny, disempower, disconnect
belief always keep us unfulfilled
belief begins when reason ends
belief is in something else
belief is a barrier to Love
belief always expects
belief implies doubt
belief is always dishonest.

Experience born from belief, can only be experienced through the condition of that belief.

People do not imagine beyond their beliefs.

The God invented by the Abrahamic religions is a murderous, pro-slavery, vacillant, petty, racist, conditional God. And thus that is as far as their imagination can go.

Vicente

[MidnightSun]

6. A very handsome man (condition).
7. A powerful ruler or despot (conditions).

These and other points arent those how i decribe the God and i cant decribe it absolutely ,nothing can be absolute truth.
Once again.God exsists, honestly.

Tell me honeslty then, tell the God does not exsists.

[vicente]

These and other points arent those how i decribe the God and i cant decribe it absolutely ,nothing can be absolute truth.
Once again.God exsists, honestly.


There is no absolute truth? Then how can you believe in a God?

The truth is,...if there is no absolute truth, then the absolute truth would be absolutely nothing, and thus an absolute truth.

God may exist for you,... http://www.wie.org/j29/consciousness.asp But they don't exist outside of my brain.

Vicente

[MidnightSun]

I havent said im completely sure about it. It just exsist, get on with it! :lol:

Yes the truth is, but not absolute one. One thing for sure is, nothing is for sure.

[vicente]

One thing for sure is, nothing is for sure.


Exist means to stand alone,...does your god stand alone? I would agree that for theists, nothing is for sure,...for Spiritual non-Theists on the other hand, I would say they relate with what will never leave them, nor what they can never leave,...thus for them, once the beliefs are let go, there is a "for sure".

As the 1st Century Gnostic text says,..."when you can disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments (beliefs) and place them under your feet like little child and tread on them, then you will no longer be afraid".

Vicente

[Thomas Knierim]

MidnightSun: There is a God, honestly.

That's a good one, Midnight.

Did you meet him in person by any chance?

Must be the same guy who created people and animals and then laid out millions of clues to make it appear as if they had evolved.

Cheers, Thomas

[MidnightSun]

"Exist means to stand alone" not true :P

"Did you meet him in person by any chance?" God is not a person as ppl like to say.

"That's a good one, Midnight." u think it was a joke?

[venom mama]

there is a creator yes. vicente writes the words of others very well, he's the one that reads everything and forms his own opinions, good. but vicinte have you ever tried to see your creator in ways other than in books written by people. you talk about letting go of this and that but you're the one holding on. your the one that is held back by religion because you are blinded by it. by everyone elses'. i have had so many experiences with my creator its amazing. i'd be a fool not to believe. i imagine your response will be that i'm a fool because i do. my faith has no influence whatsoever by the books of men. maybe i'm just special that my creator chooses to be so visable to me. i have no doubts whatsoever.

[Thomas Knierim]

The word "creator" implies creation and it thus implies an agent (=an entity with volition) that accomplished creation. As we know today, the universe is perfectly capable of creating itself. Neither is an agent required nor is there volition involved. The word "creator" is therefore delusive. This isn't something one learns from books, but by observing nature. Religions, on the other hand, are primarily book knowledge.

Thomas

[sahyo]

The word "creator" implies creation and it thus implies an agent (=an entity with volition) that accomplished creation.



Neither is an agent required nor is there volition involved.



:thumbsup:

[MidnightSun]

maybe i'm just special that my creator chooses to be so visable to me.

God is visible to everyone just not everyone notices it. U have ears so listen, u have eyes, so see.

[venom mama]

shhhh thomas, don't talk. just sit back and look pretty.

[venom mama]

so perhaps the universe can create itself. who is to say the creator did not make it that way so that they could do other things too. its almost like some people here resent the idea of humans not being supreme intelligence. something has to be mechanical or filled with numbers for them to accept it. i wonder why that is. why its so hard for them to believe.

[vicente]

so perhaps the universe can create itself. who is to say the creator did not make it that way so that they could do other things too. its almost like some people here resent the idea of humans not being supreme intelligence. something has to be mechanical or filled with numbers for them to accept it. i wonder why that is. why its so hard for them to believe.


For me, that kind of belief is dishonesty. If I'm dishonesty with something like that, how could I ever realize enlightenment? If I'm a Westerner of the Abrahamic religious traditions, than I have no need or adventure for enlightenment,...I'm a sinner, and Jesus, Allah, or G-d will save me.

For Buddhists and authentic adventures, theism is merely something that steps between them and their direct experiences.

ALL experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief.

Honest people have an intention to uncover their dishonesty/beliefs, so they can experience the unconditional.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong,...but I am saying that those who cling to theism for their identity are indeed dishonest.

Vicente

[fu*]

>>>Honest people have an intention to uncover their dishonesty/beliefs, so they can experience the unconditional.<<<

So they can?


I have an intention to uncover my dishonesty/belief,

but it is not to experience the "unconditional".

It is only to "uncover my dishonesty/belief"

[venom mama]

i'm not clinging to anything. i know who and what i am. which makes it so easy for me to be HONEST. i'm not trying to hide and i'm not searching. my faith is strong because i'm not afraid to let it be.

[vicente]

Honest people have an intention to uncover their dishonesty/beliefs, so they can experience the unconditional.

Perhaps I should have said,...People with an honest intention to uncover their dishonesty/beliefs effortlessly experience the Unconditional

Vicente
:)

"When people say 'I have faith', what they really mean is 'I don't want to know the truth'." Nietzsche

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." Stephen Hawking

"The universe is made of stories, not atoms." —Muriel Rukeyser

"Fear is not of the present, but only of the past and future" ACIM

"The universe is called in Sanskrit, Jagat (that which moves) because nothing exists but by the combination of forces and movements. Every movement generates a vibration and therefore a sound that is peculiar to it. We can therefore understand why astrology, alchemy, geometry, and so forth express themselves in terms of harmonic relations." Alain Danielou

"Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one." --- Albert Einstein

"It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong." Thomas Jefferson

"Are you god?" they asked Buddha. "No", he replied. "Are you an angel, then?" "No". "Then what are you?" Buddha replied, "I am awake". Houston Smith

[venom mama]

" i use my own words." venomgirl


" i think for myself." venomgirl


" come on baby light my fire." jim morrison

[Thomas Knierim]

venomgirl: so perhaps the universe can create itself. who is to say the creator did not make it that way so that they could do other things too.

Because it is irrational. If the universe does have the ability to create and sustain itself -and from today's knowledge about astrophysics and evolution this picture has clearly emerged- then a creator is de facto unnecessary. That's exactly the point the Darwinists have made, that there is design without a designer. From a scientific point of view, adding a designer/creator would violate Occam's principle. I know this is not going to convince you, but it is certainly not reason that speaks in favour of the creator's existence.

venomgirl: its almost like some people here resent the idea of humans not being supreme intelligence.

Human perception and human intelligence are very limited. Nevertheless, we should use them to their full potential. There are enough things in the universe we cannot explain and it is very human to entertain metaphsyical ideas about them. But, it is important to label these ideas as provisional. If we claim them to be anything else, our own integrity is at stake.

venomgirl: something has to be mechanical or filled with numbers for them to accept it.

Understanding the mechanics and numbers behind phenomena does not diminish their appreciation. For example, one can enjoy the colourful display of a sunset and its warm rays without posing a sun god or something similarly "mystical". Knowing that the sun is a nuclear furnace which ignites under its own mass does not tarnish the sunset experience. Or does it?

venomgirl: i wonder why that is. why its so hard for them to believe.

Believe is a propositional attitude; it is a provisional epistemic prop that allows us to operate in the absence of verifiable knowledge. Everyone, including me and Vicente, holds beliefs of some kind. For example, we might make an appointment tomorrow, based on our belief that we will still be healthy and alive then, although that is something we cannot know with certainty.

Belief in a creator, on the other hand, is based on religion, and such a belief is more commonly called faith. The beliefs associated with religions are culturally transmitted and whether it is easy or hard for someone to hold such beliefs, depends largely on that person's upbringing and cultural programming. My own upbringing was relatively free of religious programming.

Cheers, Thomas

[MidnightSun]

"When people say 'I have faith', what they really mean is 'I don't want to know the truth'

I say that i have faith in truth, thats what people really mean.

[equericon]

True harmony is Silence, where true harmony is, the voice of Silence speaks

[MidnightSun]

my quizz says the same ;)

[venom mama]

i believe



yes


i believe so unconditionally that it makes me smile just to think about it.

[Ronagon]

God. Barf.

You must like being submissive, venom.

[scameter]

:lol: :lol: :lol: "the imaginary friend for grown-ups." :P i'm sorry venom, you are my friend and i don't want to hurt you. :)

[Ronagon]

If the universe does have the ability to create and sustain itself -and from today's knowledge about astrophysics and evolution this picture has clearly emerged- then a creator is de facto unnecessary.

Actually, a "creator" could exist as long as it is redefined correctly.

The place for a creator would be in defining whatever the algorithmic logic is that produces the seemingly (or perhaps genuinely) random behavior of quantum particles... if such an algorithm exists at all, and isn't truly random.

Such a randomness-producing algorithm would produce the behavior we see in quantum particles and, by macro-scale induction, the loaded randomness necessary to produce genetic changes and, also by induction, evolution.

I say all this because we humans can produce "randomness" in such things as "random" number tables and generators, using algorithms and formulas that generate random-looking numbers and such. In other words, they are really pseudo-random... random in the sense that they create the impression of randomness, but really follow a buried and not easily discernable logic.

Of course, just because we humans can do this, does not automatically mean that real randomness cannot exist, and that quantum behavior isn't governed by that instead. If real randomness does exist as a cosmic "creator", then we just can't wrap our minds around it, and it truly is the last, unsolvable and undiscovered country.

[venom mama]

god was with me all day today



it was beautiful



i love god






all of you are fools

[...]

all of you are fools

..absolutely true :D

[venom mama]

yes........fools

[scameter]

I know i'm a fool, nearly everyone i've knwon has told me so and i have seen it from my own view as well, but honestly venom, and everyone else for that matter, nothing is good or bad or evil or satanic or ignorant or foolish or enlightened or wise or intelligent; everything is merely what it is, how it is translated is based on the individual's judgement.

[cooxman]

scam ,

when was the last time u got wounded. did u feel pleasure or pain? pain , i presume,
unless your wires are crossed.
if you want to live to see another day, strapping c4 on your stomach and setting off the bomb, is unmistakably foolish, scam

Not everything is open to interpretation,
i could name a whole list of definites.
A few hints:
foolishish thing are generally self-defeatist by nature.
Smart/intellegent things are self-suceedist by nature.
bad things/actions intentionally hurt the object/subject of its effect and also it's host ultimately.
good things/actions intentionally dont hurt the objects/subjects of its effects.


Oh and scam, ever heard of " Pascal's Wager "...perhaps you should look it up, and perhaps become enlightened

three cheers for GOD!!!

[scameter]

All of those things you listed are from your viewpoint, which is derivitive of your conditioning and what you have pondered your self, which is also from your conditioning. Nothing is definite or certain.

lol i couldn't afford C4 even if i wanted to :D And, who says i want to live to see another day?

I don't want to become enlightened. As buddha said,"The entire objective of life is the abandonment of becoming." :)

[sahyo]

.................................................. ......... :D





.................................................. .................................................. ..... :D



.............:D ..............................scameter............ .................................................. ..................................... :D







.................................................. ...................:D

[scameter]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Smurf]

Scam I wholly agree with you on your point of that pain or pleasure are just the interpretation of the individual. :thumbsup:

[scameter]

Well, that's not exactly what i said; good and evil, and many many other things are mainly the individual's interpretation of that, but pain and pleasure are scientifically physical qualities.

[Smurf]

oh yea i know that, i sort of got carried away and just writed that down, but what i should have written was that i agree that what you just said then.

[scameter]

Oh ok. Thanks. :)

[sahyo]

:lol: :lol: :lol:



:lol:

[sahyo]

pain and pleasure are scientifically physical qualities.

scientifically?

[scameter]

Yes. Especially with psychology and neruology.

[sahyo]

pain and pleasure are scientifically physical qualities.

as saying can be explained scientifically?

[scameter]

Yes. Oh and add chemistry to the list as well. :)

[sahyo]

is not science intellectual application without qualities?

[scameter]

No, science does consider the qualities of things but merely from the viewpoint of the individual humans, which makes it limited.

[sahyo]

so what are pointing when state?:

pain and pleasure are scientifically physical qualities.

[scameter]

Merely that they really can't be refutted as just from the individual's point of view because they can be physically explained. I mean, nothing is certain of course, but that is still pretty certain that they exist and are as they are.

[sahyo]

does not pain-pleasure individually vary?
and does not scientific interpretation individually vary?

[scameter]

It does completely, which is why i said that it is individually relative too. I just ean that science has reached a base conclusion and description of it.

[sahyo]

ok :)

[venom mama]

i had my cards read


the card that represented what was going against me was the devil card


so i think oh my goodness, i have the devil going against me
that's pretty bad


but then i heard god say, don't worry, the devil is nothing

nothing






pick that apart......

[Smurf]

Devil ain't that bad. in fact he doesn't exist, to me. for that matter neither does God, but not trying to go against your spiritual beliefs Venomgirl.

[deepakgang]

Devil ain't that bad

It is that bad which exists there in your sentence, devil denotes. Nothing more.

[scameter]

Really, the "devil" and the "God" are merely vocal representations of what we believe to be divine beings. I think, honestly, that people place too much seriousness on them, as we do life ingeneral. They merely are what they are, but no attached dogma should advise one away from either them or life.

[Smurf]

yes they only exist through the countless beliefs of many, it could have been so different if perhaps something different happened to Jesus perhaps, or you know? something back in his day like he happened to trip and walk off a cliff? perhaps.... no oh well :D :lol: :lol:

[scameter]

:o I'm sorry Smurf, i didn't understand a thing you said. :D

[Smurf]

Oh me? just ranting around but what i am trying to say, (last night i was tired and just blurted), is that perhaps just, i don't believe in the "virigin birth" i mean come on, but if Jesus wasn't born? then chrisianity wouldn't be here and all the millions that believe in it would believe in something else like buddhism and the world would be a better place without all of the annoying self-righteous, close-minded christians.

[scameter]

Sorry to disagree but i do. Christianity is not the problem, because if we actually read the Bible it doesn't tell us to be like most modern Christians are, which are all hypocrites; the problem is people. For instance, George W. Bush of America supports Christianity because it is the common religion and that gets him votes. If Taoism was, then he would support Taoism. People are going to act as they are and want no matter the religion. They will take into fancy whatever they like in a religion and whichever one has the most of that they will twist it even more to their fancy and be titled it, like Christian. Most Buddhists aren't really like Buddha or his teachings; they're just called Buddhist mainly because it originated in India and that's close to Asia, and American Buddhists either do it to be cute or because, rarely, they actually like it.

[Ronagon]

scameter,

I sent you a message. Did you get it?

[scameter]

Yes i did my friend. Did you get my reply? :)

[Smurf]

yes totally agree, um replace my close-minded christians with "christians" you know so called christians blah blah and what you said. i tripped up on myself again sorry but you are right

[scameter]

:) You didn't trip. You're standing. Always. :)

[Smurf]

thanks mate, but i kinda metaphorically "run" think and sometimes trip and stuff comes out wrong etc, this doesn't matter to me but I just need someone to tell me as it is you know? there is so much stuff in my brain waiting to be said but unfortunately it is still pure "meaning" and i only have a small speaking vocabulary

[venom mama]

interesting thing happened to me

my friends and i exchanged christmas gifts last night

one friend gave me a beautiful rosary that she got in italy when she and her husband were on their honeymoon, it smells like roses

later that same night my other friend gave me a strand of muslim prayer beads that he had gotten in iraq. they were searching cars and they had been hanging from the mirror. so he traded for them. they're handmade.


today that same friend was driving me around the city and took me past were an amazing hindu temple is being built. as we were getting close to were it was he said," alot of hindu people are moving to this neighborhood, i'll show you why."

imagine my surprise, because this is an actual neighborhood, when we turn the corner in the clearing is this huge hindu temple. i mean its like being in india.

just weird how all that came together. it's crazy that a rosary brought from italy and a set of prayer beads brought from iraq both found their way to me in the same night. then today with the temple....

[deepakgang]

Have you seen children argue with friends in school, for taking his seat in the class room? The teacher should make him understand its not a single seat that belongs to him. Instead the whole class room belongs to him. He can occupy any seat he wants. The feeling of belonging should be made to the class.

Same is the case with religions in the world also. There is no better religion. Hinduism, buddhism, christianism all are ours. We all can enjoy and reap the fruits of their teachings. It should not be like I am Hindu so Im better. All belongs to me. Its to me all religions come to.

[MidnightSun]

That was a very good point.

[Smurf]

mmm nice, like eating a freshly picked plump strawberry full of juices :D

[scameter]

True. And t also shows the creativity of human belief, and their varied and strong necessity for such belief. :)

[venom mama]

praise god

[scameter]

Are you venomgirl, or asheera with that statement in oddity? :D

[sahyo]

:lol:

[MidnightSun]

:lol: yea, asheera is typing a lot...

[sahyo]

:lol:

[deepakgang]

Ok ill act like asheera..



:lol:






deepakgang :lol:












jores'd ghtu


:D







how was that

[Smurf]

haha lol :lol: :D

what does "jores'd ghtu" mean?

[deepakgang]

That was just an example of how asheera speaks some wierd language sometimes.
No offence asheera.

I think she speaks loud with those symbols and those two-letter-words. Conveys more than what when I type a page. Scary huh!!

I like tht style.

[Smurf]

:) yes we are not bagging you Asheera

but what you say is true deepakgang

[sahyo]

Ok ill act like asheera..



:lol:







deepakgang :lol:












jores'd ghtu


:D







how was that




:lol:

[sahyo]

playing




deepack




smurf




:D

[VossistArts]

im not sure... what you mean.. about finding a creator without tools. Arent sunsets and rainbows and laughter and smiles etc. used as tools to indicate...a creator? I havent come one step closer to finding a creator than when I was born. Lots of created. I guess I wasnt aware that that was a thing to look for. People have actually found a creator outside of themselves? Interesting. Do you think the creator will mind if I dont look for it?

[MidnightSun]

That was just an example of how asheera speaks some wierd language sometimes.

lol !

I dont know. Never thought about it though. Depends who is that creator i guess...Bible says that if u wont look for it u will burn in hell :lol:

[Smurf]

yes in the firey rivers of Hell itself, amen, praise Jesus :D

[venom mama]

amen

[MidnightSun]

:lol:

[Smurf]

Can I Have A Hallelujah?

[scameter]

As Beavis said: "Fffiiirrreee!!!!" :P

[Smurf]

:D :P

[Merlin]

Hi Venomgirl,

You're going in the right direction but why tell 'em "it's your loss."??

Creates sectors thus creates >>>>>>>>..........?

Help e'm yes! Knock e'm? no!

[scameter]

For one, welcome to thebigview.com Merlin, you seem like you'll be a very fine participant. :) And asheera, I think you've got a new confusing-words master. :P

[Smurf]

:D yes i found that too

[scameter]

:D

[Smurf]

Hey Scam, can you be a Christian Islamist, Zen Buddhist Taoist?

[scameter]

No, most religions of this world say that they cannot be mixed with any other form of lifestyle or belief dictated by a code of tennents. Now, Taoism and Zen are philosophies, and so yes can be mixed with other philosophies and/or religions. And for proof, Zen is actually a mix of many different philosophies, including Taoism. :)

[Smurf]

well i think i will stick to being just me then? :)

[Smurf]

Is it?

[Smurf]

well then everyone is wonderful! :)

[deepakgang]

i love god because he made me beautiful and it is wonderful to be beautiful.

If you were not so-beautifully-made, would you havent had loved god this much. Or you think that the not-so-beautiful people around you are less privileged than you?


or did you mean somethin else....


_______________________________________________

[deepakgang]

how beautiful god will be who made beautiful creatures like you :)

[scameter]

:rolleyes: :P

[Smurf]

how do you define beautiful, to a degree perhaps?, or is it the culmination of the things that make a person? or is it the opinion of the person? or is it the will of Allah? God? Fate?

[Smurf]

what about American Beauty? that was an awesome film :thumbsup:

i wasn't one of the people who thought it was your physical form, and yes it's an experience, but one thing can be beautiful to one person and absolutely disgusting to another, this is why i said it was an opinion aswell

[MidnightSun]

True, i hate fireworks and a lot of ppl loves it. :P that wa an example..

[scameter]

I think that the universal beauty you speak of psyche is the much broader form of it. Taste comes into the specific, like differentiations on music favor or art favor, but general terms, specifically actions, can be universally beautiful. For instance, one person may enjoy rock music while another enjoys country music, but both of them like music. :)

[Smurf]

yes definately :thumbsup:

[sahyo]

you to identify with beauty itself



not identification

[MidnightSun]

Good point scam. :)

[sahyo]

not that either

hehe

[scameter]

True psyche.

[scameter]

Odd picture...

[Smurf]

oh shut up :D

it's not odd it's beautiful, as with everything Psyche puts up here :)

[scameter]

:(

[Smurf]

" :( "

awww there there *comforts* I didn't mean it you know? :)

[scameter]

:P I know my friend. :)

[Smurf]

I know my friend.

as do I :lol:





:)