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Thomas Knierim
13th May 2005, 11:41 AM
Vicente said in the "Fascism, Nazism, Us Today" thread:

Saw a quote from Marianne Williamson last night,..."Love is what we are born with. Fear is what we learn. The spiritual journey is the unlearning of fear."

I think Marianne Williamson is wrong here. Many human fears are conditioned and learned, but many are not. For example, infants fear being hungry, being left alone, and they fear bodily injury. These fears are innate. I give you an example. If I handle my two months old daughter not carefully enough, for example by picking her up too rapidly, I see whirling arms and legs and a distressed facial expression. She is clearly afraid of falling down, although she has never fallen in her life, nor did she ever make unpleasant contact with hard surfaces.

I must conclude that her response is instinctive. There seem to be other examples for instinctive fears. Animal researchers have found that newborn primates instinctively fear snakes, even if they have never seen a snake before. All of this seems to indicate that fear is an innate biological protection mechanism.

Of course there are also conditioned fears. Examples are the fear of not being loved, the fear of failing in school, the fear of not being accepted by friends, and so on. These fears are the result of social conditioning, which means that they are learned, but they are learned with such ease and efficacy that one cannot help to think that they must be deeply grounded in innate emotions. Cravings and fears seem to be the builiding blocks of the processes of self-establishment and socialisation.

Since fears are an innate biological feature, it is preposterous to suggest to unlearn fears.

What Marianne Williamson means with "unlearning fear" I can only guess. I suppose she means the unmasking of conditioned fear complexes by reductive analysis and insight. For example, it is possible to "unlearn" phobic reactions towards spiders. But that's not unlearning fear, that's overcoming. Elementary fears cannot be unlearned, but they can be mastered. Humans need to learn to deal with fear. This learning process begins with building up tolerance levels towards anxiety, anguish, and fear. We learn to cope with negative and fearful experiences. Finally, it is possible to achieve mastery over negative emotions, such as fear, and that is what the spiritual journey -basic level- consists of. It consists of acquiring mastery. It's about gaining sovereignty, understanding and transcending our own conditioning.

Cheers, Thomas

vicente
13th May 2005, 12:50 PM
Saw a quote from Marianne Williamson last night,..."Love is what we are born with. Fear is what we learn. The spiritual journey is the unlearning of fear."

I think Marianne Williamson is wrong here. Many human fears are conditioned and learned, but many are not.

That's an interesting point Thomas. I was merely seeing the quote in the context of the philosophy that we are love, and the only reason it may seem illusive is because of the barriers we have built against it through our beliefs and fears.

As for what was Marianne Williamson attempting to say,...I'd say the answer to that could be identified through ACIM (A Course In Miracles) of which she is one of the leading spokespersons for.

For a quick survey, in regards to fear, the Course mentions stuff like:

Healing is the Release from Fear
Our adult feelings of fear are traceable to these early years
The fear of losing our personal identity and idea of specialness.
The world is the ego's dream of fear that we have chosen as replacement for reality
Fear contradicts who and what you really are
We fear losing our personal specialness and living without the ego
What is difficult is our fear of what is true
Once our own voice of fear and specialness has been stilled
There is first a fear of knowing the truth

Gregg Braden, a purveyor in the human potential movement, once said that all fears can be reduced to one of three,...fear of not being good enough, fear of abandonment, and the fear of death.

In the story I mentioned about James, he obviously had a strong fear of not being good enough. Yet, once he observed the core belief of that fear, it effortlessly dissolved, and with it the vibration that attracted those situations of not being good enough, which provided the reflection for him to see what to heal.

It consists of acquiring mastery, not of unlearning. It's about gaining sovereignty, understanding and transcending our own conditioning.

I like the idea of mastery, but not necessarily through disposing of unlearning. To me, unlearning is a skill which precipitates mastery. To me, unlearning is akin to removing the beliefs we cloak ourselfs with. For example,...as I often mention,...a 1st Century Gnostic text says,..."when you can disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments (beliefs) and place them under your feet like little child and tread on them, then you will no longer be afraid".

Vicente
:)

sahyo
13th May 2005, 01:09 PM
removing the beliefs

is that so?

vicente
14th May 2005, 04:43 AM
removing the beliefs

is that so?


Of course that's not so,...except to ego,...which isn't real either.

:)

Truthbearer
14th May 2005, 10:37 AM
I'm sorry but it IS so.

Transcending fear, is about transcending beliefs, conditioning, pastlife behaviours that caused the fear in the first place.
'Fear' is karma.. and most of humanity has so much fear, locked in their unconscious - this is what karmic clearing is all about: seeing, understanding and forgiving, to transcend/remove all fears AND beliefs AND conditioning.

Beliefs are the cause of much of our conditioning.

Belief is not knowing.

And I concur, the spiritual journey is the unlearning of fear. (because we HAVE learnt to fear, have been fearful, frightened, many lives of living in absolute fear - it is now in our unconscious, oftentimes 'calling in a fear situation'.. just to show us we still have it.)

We learn to overcome .. and this takes learning.
Overcoming is transformation .. takes learning.

xxx Pat

CSwriter1
14th May 2005, 11:35 AM
I accept the possibility of reincarnation, and I accept the possibility that there is no reincarnation. Therefore, I am not willing to believe it explains all things.

I sure don't believe love is what we are born with! Whoever believes this, has enjoyed a full belly, and can not image a reality where it is common for people to starve to death. This is one of the biggest problems when it comes to understanding how world peace could possible, and is a very serious problem in time of war.


There are conditions in which humans loose all those qualities that we consider human. I fear we may someday learn of this through experience, instead of more safely, through field studies on those living is such terrible conditions. When starvation becomes a constant fact of life, the baby becomes an unwanted burden, and men are the enemy of female life, because their sexual aggression means females have unwanted children. When humans live at such a low level, when mothers can not feed their babies, in time, the baby stops crying. Because the baby stops crying for food, the mother stops trying to feed the baby. To the horror of medical volunteers, they found, even when they explain to the mothers that their babies can live if to force the babies to eat, the mothers continue to ignore their babies and passively let them die.

We sometimes see this in our own culture, when a mother dumps her baby in a trash bin and walks away.
Sometimes mothers kill their children, and many of us do not object to this when the child is in the womb and has not been born. Children who have suffered the deprivation of human contact, often grow up with a pyschosis. Fostering or adopting one of these children can be dangerous. These unfortunates can not be touched with normal love. Our present practice of working mothers and leaving the child in the care of baby sitters, is very dangerous, because these children may be deprived of the human contact necessary to have the "loving human beings" that some are taking for granted with the assumption we born with love. BIG MISTAKE.

sahyo
14th May 2005, 06:14 PM
I sure don't believe love is what we are born with!
Whoever believes this, has enjoyed a full belly*



:P

loving, malnutrition since sometimes not food, and when food white rice (hasn't seen brown rice),
corn bread, and yams, body very ill p falciparum malaria,
living nigeria, says "love is natural"

http://forums.delphiforums.com/kowtaaia/me...ages/?msg=134.1 (http://forums.delphiforums.com/kowtaaia/messages/?msg=134.1)

sahyo
14th May 2005, 06:39 PM
vicente :)

Thomas Knierim
14th May 2005, 11:55 PM
Vicente: For a quick survey, in regards to fear, the Course mentions stuff like: …

Thanks for the overview. I am not very familiar with A Course In Miracles, so I can’t say much about it. The sentence that “healing is the release from fear” describes the term “healing” not very accurately in my view. I presume what is meant here is spiritual healing. The factor fear certainly plays a major role in the healing of mental conditions, as well as in the spiritual development of a person. But it is not the only factor. There are many obstacles and their mix and characteristics depend on the individual. Mental/spiritual imbalance is also caused by delusions, wrongful identifications, unhealthy attachments, hatred, anger, cravings, and addictions. All of these spell suffering. Healing is the release from suffering, or respectively the end of conditions that lead to suffering. Fear is only one element among many. Hence, I cannot agree with the sentence that “healing is the release from fear”. There is more to it.

Vicente: Gregg Braden, a purveyor in the human potential movement, once said that all fears can be reduced to one of three,...fear of not being good enough, fear of abandonment, and the fear of death.

I am inclined to think that all fears can be reduced to a single fear: the fear of death. But it is important to add that this does not only mean physical death, but all the “little death” as well, the death of attachments, relationships, ideas, dreams, identifications, and anything else that we identify with and consider to be part of our self. Finally –and most importantly- it includes the death of the ego.

The fear of abandonment is the fear of losing relationships on which we are dependent. A dependency of this sort is expressed in the sentence “I need you.” It stems either from an identification with a certain role (husband, mother, child, lover, etc.), or from some sort of benefit that the ego/self believes to obtain from a person.

The fear of not being good enough can either be reduced to the fear of not being accepted by a group or a person for not being good enough, which is identical to what is described in the previous paragraph, or it is a case of an abstract conflict where the idea of not being good enough has been internalised by the super-ego. The latter case is likely to be the result of early age conditioning which goes hand in hand with the fear of rejection.

Vicente: To me, unlearning is akin to removing the beliefs we cloak ourselfs with.

Yes, but belief is very different from fear. Belief is conceptual and fear is an emotion. Fear is a very elementary property and function of the brain, which can be traced back hundreds of millions of years in evolutionary history. Fear cannot be unlearned, but beliefs can be unlearned because they are idea systems. These idea systems may be associated with reward patterns or with punishment and thus with fear. The ancient religions, for example, contain very powerful, threatening, and fearful images, such as hell, Hades, the wrath of gods or God, Satan, the beast, and a whole plethora of evil figures and symbols. These have been abused to instill fear in people. Insofar, unlearning is a must.

Truthbearer: 'Fear' is karma. […] Belief is not knowing.

The question that immediately arises from these two sentences is: in how far is ‘karma’ a belief? You seem to put a lot of weight onto the karma concept.

Is that knowing or believing?

Karma explains certain things in the human realm which are otherwise inexplicable. But what about fear? Is it not that fear can be explained and understood without employing the concept of karma?

Cheers, Thomas

CSwriter1
14th May 2005, 11:55 PM
Back to earth, the instinctive fears of a new born, seem to be lost soon after a child gains a sense of self movement. Then they become kamocozi (sp?) pilots and will run and leap fearlessly, aging parents who can not maintain the child in a totally safe environment several years, causing grey hair.

sahyo
15th May 2005, 12:05 AM
http://forums.delphiforums.com/kowtaaia/me...ages/?msg=134.1


oop...seems the thread was deleted

hehe

CSwriter1
15th May 2005, 12:12 AM
In all animals species capable of learning, the young are disposable, in that their lack of fear leads them to try new things, and they are easily replaced by breeding age members of the species. While adults will not try something new until it is tested and proven safe. Then there is critical mass consciousness, which occurs when a significant number of adults accept this new thing. This protects those of breeding age from eating something poisonous, or doing something fatal, increasing the species population by reproducing its kind. However, this is not enough to keep the species alive.

During periods of drastic environmental change, the species ability to adopt to change is vital, and this is where the young play a vital role. By trying new things, they can discover what works in a changed environment and adults will pick up the new behavior when it is proven safe. Many a teenager has introduced a parent to smoking pot.


This is the struggle of the peace movement today. Right now critical mass consciousness believes war is a natural and unavoidable part of life. We will have wars, until there is a consciusness shift that makes war, as a means of resolving differences or promoting self interest, as unthinkable as cannibalism.

Truthbearer
15th May 2005, 03:31 PM
[QUOTE]Karma explains certain things in the human realm which are otherwise inexplicable. But what about fear? Is it not that fear can be explained and understood without employing the concept of karma?

Hello Thomas..

From my experience (of 4 past years of constant karmic-clearing)
No.

EVERY negative thought/action is karma related.

Karma is not a concept, nor a belief - it is a Universal Law and Truth.

IMO 'fear' can only be explained by the prescense of karma.
(unconscious/conscious-unexplained fears especially).
A 'conscious' fear .. is a mirror to be experienced, to see a karma.

The fear of death, is the fear of dying.
We have fears of failure/poverty/separation(soul/source/god/whatever)/boredom/deception/lonliness/rejection/judgement/invalidation/fear and a lots more i cant think of...

Unhealthy attachements/addictions/cravings etc.
also are all karmas.

'spiritual healing' ..
we heal the spiritual body/etheric body/non-physical body (sitting approx 1 cm outside our skin) .. and this will step down and heal the physical body.
We remove the karmas from the etheric body (unconscious).. and this will heal the physical.
We can only do this by
* understanding the karma dynamic
* understanding the etheric body parts.
*and an understanding of our souls and angelics - that are part of the healing of the etheric body (karmas)

xx Pat

Truthbearer
15th May 2005, 03:43 PM
P.S. .. fear CAN be unlearned.

We delve into ones pastlives of fear, not everyone .. but ORIGINAL CAUSE.
These are brought into ones consciousmind .. seen where this particular fear started.
When these visions of circumstance are seen .. and understood to the now circumstance, and either 'forgiven' or 'saying sorry' (and seeing WHO we are saying sorry to, in the now life)
.. the vision/circumstance can be dismantled/removed/released from ones unconsciousmind.

(and, surprisingly many others who also hold this same karma - it only takes one to remove a karma - This is the part that Soul and Angelics play, a global dynamic).

From my experience, we have that many layers of 'fear' .. many 'Original Causes'.
Many of our diseases and such are fear-based.
And I have released most of my own .. you can imagine, we become quite fearless! xx
(bullet-proof in fact).

xx

Thomas Knierim
15th May 2005, 08:34 PM
Truthbearer: Karma is not a concept, nor a belief - it is a Universal Law and Truth.

Using the same rhetoric device as you just did, I could state that God is a universal truth. Or perhaps that Mohammed’s words are universal law. It's just a statement, not an explanation. It doesn’t sound very enlightening. What makes karma a truth? What makes karma a universal law? Why so?

Moreover, the terms ‘concept’ and ‘universal truth’ are not mutually exclusive. Gravitation, for example, is both a universal truth and a concept.

Truthbearer: IMO 'fear' can only be explained by the prescense of karma.

I think we need to distinguish between fear and anxiety.

Fear is a behaviour which we observe everywhere in the animal kingdom. Monkeys, dogs, horses, birds, and reptiles all experience fear. The experience of fear is related to the perception of actual or potential dangers. It is the emotional reaction to a perceived threat, as such it has an important biological function, because it constitutes the motivating force for defensive and protective behaviour. It protects the organism from harm.

By contrast, anxiety is conditioned. Anxiety arises in response to a situation which is apparently harmless. It is caused by perceptions that trigger an anxiety complex. An anxiety complex is either a conscious or a subconscious chain of thoughts leading to anxious/fearful emotions. For example, the stress that students feel in an examination, is a conditioned anxiety complex. It results from the fear of failing, which in turn results from the fear of (imagined/anticipated) consequences associated with the event of failure. Anxiety requires highly abstract thought.

These explanations give in my view a satisfactory account of fear. –Although the concept of karma may be employed to explain the origin of concrete anxiety complexes of an individual, there is nothing it would add to the understanding of fear itself. Or is there?– I am aware that the descriptions I have given are very brief (one could go on for pages describing all the biopsychological mechanics of fear and anxiety), but it describes the principle.

Please understand that I am not rejecting the concept of karma altogether. If one chooses to use the karma concept to construct certain world views, as you do, one needs to look at the entire psychophysical entity, and this includes inclinations to certain fears, cravings, attachments, etc. which can all be viewed as different manifestations of karma. However, this also implicates that karma is a higher level concept and that fear can be discussed independently of it.

Truthbearer: We delve into ones pastlives of fear, not everyone .. but ORIGINAL CAUSE. These are brought into ones consciousmind .. seen where this particular fear started. When these visions of circumstance are seen .. and understood to the now circumstance, and either 'forgiven' or 'saying sorry'.

This presupposes that there is a distinct individual history which can be traced back in time in a linear fashion. In fact, this is what the ideas of “soul” and “transmigration” imply. I can neither prove nor disprove such ideas, but I am highly sceptical of the individuality and separateness of existence, let alone the separate existence of a non-physical entity. Sure, you can pinpoint an organism as something individual and separate, but its individuality is exceedingly fleeting. In fact, individual organisms are not very “real”, they are just instantiations of genotypes which are themselves transient and subject to change in a larger time frame. A little more real is the genetic and evolutionary chain of events that leads to the existence of phenotypes and individual organisms. But even that is in constant motion. Individual existences are thus like individual points in the huge matrix of life. The interesting thing about this matrix are not the volatile conditions of its interdependent constituents, but its large scale dynamics.

Cheers, Thomas

Truthbearer
16th May 2005, 10:42 PM
karma - "an emotionally traumatic incident from ones pastlife ancestry that locks a particular thought in motion in the unconscious - Release the emotional charge, and the thought can now change".. Earthmother
There is a Karma Council, a non-physical band of angelics,over-seeing and monitoring Earth humans at the moment - one can 'intend' to connect with this council of beings, and learn for themselves.
In fact, there are many many councils and 'temples' abounding Earth, and humans, at the moment - to help us understand Ascension.
One only need to ask a question.
The only requirement is, that ones integrity is established.. aka, is one intending to ascend, or not.

Universal Laws and Truths - these are generally channelled by ones Souls, Angelics, Earthmother or any higher being, that one is asking the questions to.. often, when we ask the 'source' .. we are told 'this is a Universal Law ' .. This also means Spiritual Law. Because the Universe is physical matter, driven and orchestrated by Spirit.. and not the other way around.
Even our own bodies .. the non-physical body holds all the knowledge and information of what we are, and how we act .. when one starts to address the dysfunctions in our non-physical/etheric body - we heal the non-physical aspect of self first, then it automatically steps down into the physical.

I am not using a 'rhetoric device' .. this is the way i speak (and when I am told 'Universal Law', it is an explanation for me).. tho' in all honesty I only know a very very small part of Universal Law.. mainly karma and soul .. because it has taken immense amounts of dedication to hear and learn just this small amount that I know .. but when I know, I know. Because I am told.
And I have no reason to doubt my Souls and Source.


If you know that anything is a Universal Law and Truth, then by all means, say so - it means that it crosses all planes, dimensions and worlds, and I muscle-test all that I hear, to authenticate. ('god' probably is a universal Truth .. doubt if mohammed, or buddha, or any specific being is tho'... the same as Pat Hess is not a Universal Truth).. All unified thoughtform is Universal Law.. polarities are Earth (and part of why we have 2 strands of DNA), and therefore not Universal Law and Truth.
All Nature Realms hold core truths of Universal Law e.g. these are the vibrational energy they emanate.
So would we, if it wasnt for our karmas.. Our karmas distort our emanations.
After ascension, we will emanate Unconditional Love.. the whole planet will.

I muscle-test , and have no more need of sceptism/assuming/theorizing etc.

Anxiety is a mirror to address a karma,
Fear is a mirror to address a karma.
Many of our diseases are fear-based, again, mirrors to address karmas.

We ALL have had very distinct individual histories, which, with focus and practise, can relive and experience .. this certainly gives one an honest experience of karma - and yes the larger scale dynamic/matrix is all about Soul.
So is karma.
And if one starts to understand ones etheric bodyparts and realm .. we truck around with us libraries and records.. etheric blueprints. not just one, but many.
We are actually driven by this blueprint, this 'map' .. until we see it, or rather understand it .. ask a few questions. . and somewhere the answers will reveal 'karma'.

If not, then your're not asking the right questions. xx

Namaste
Pat xx

...
16th May 2005, 10:57 PM
..isn't it just far simpler than that Pat? Why 'soul/etherical body and metaphysical blueprints' when the genes contain so much information? Wouldn't the genes account for our predispositions, how we percieve reality, how we deal with everyday life?

Truthbearer
26th May 2005, 09:29 PM
...
sorry I got lost for a bit.

We can make 'it' (our spiritual journey? - our self healing? - ascension/evolution/transcendation? ) as simple or as difficult as we like.
But 'knowing' .. always gives clarity to many things.. and then what was unknown and seemed difficult, became not difficult.

I wanted to know many things -
e.g. what EXACTLY is chi/qi/prana - 'life force' didnt quite 'cut the mustard'
what EXACTLY was ascension.
the EXACT function of chakras/kundalhini/etheric body/subtle bodies.
the EXACT function of Souls/Source/Divas/Elementals.

karma .. karma is the most fascinating subject I have ever encountered.. it is now my lifes work.

None of these are really 'simple' concepts.
But they are valuable to know- because when we start to know their purpose, we start to work with them, as viable healing modalities.
We can ignore them, and just work on the physical - but until the etheric body is healed, in reality, no healing eventuates (merely 'band-aids').Science/medical profession work on the physical, this is only working with part of the truth - spirit works on the etheric and the physical .. working with the WHOLE truth.
.. and this affords 'self-healing'.
(we dismantle what is in the unconscious, this dismantles the dysfunction in the etheric body (lost matter, accrued matter) that is inplace because of our blueprint, and our unconscious - the blueprint is re-adjusted - and so is the physical bodypart affected.
It was only affected, because of a'programmed' negative circumstance in our unconscious (karma)

As we learn about all the etheric bodyparts - and their function . we discover modalities to ascertain whether our own are functional or dysfunctional, and discover the latter.
So we Intend to heal ourselves.
And we are led to 'karma' .. and how to dismantle it.
to 'blockages' (karmas) which are accrual of matter.. or loss of matter..
which is loss of etheric body gridwork .. and chi cannot flow.
So we are led to understand 'chi'.. and its integral importance.
No chi - no ascension.

Then one cannot understand chi, without understanding the chakras function
(because the chakras transmit and receive chi).
So we are led to understand what causes chakra dysfunctions.
Karmas on our chakras.
Leading to arrogances.

Do you see where all the constant questions lead one to '...' ?
answers.
and self-healing
and
raising ones consciousness.
.
Ones DNA doesnt hold information on our pastlives - just the result.
nor does it reveal our dysfunctions .. but our etheric body realms, will.

[QUOTE] "How we perceive reality, how we deal with everyday life"
these are our 'predispositions'.. to be this, to be that ..
and are generally karmic driven.
All our lives are bound by mirrors to see the karmas.
(our genes/DNA are the result of unresolved karmas - because our DNA deems us 'harmful' - this is equated by our shortened lives/our copious diseases that we cannot self-heal (2-strand DNA ignorance, that keeps us locked into 'harm' .. harm to ourselves (in creating diseases and by our polarity thoughtform that loses/gives to others) and harming others (their diseases are by our thoughtform that 'took'/accrue something from them - by a karmic happenstance.
This is not a simple dynamic to get ones head around.
But it IS what deems us harmful - our way of thinking.
and our karmas.

So, in all honesty - how we perceive reality, and how we deal with everyday life.. depends on how well one understands karma and the mirror.

and when one does - everything becomes an illusion.

Because this whole planet is orchestrated and synchronised for people to see the mirror and adjust their karmas.
and then perceive 'reality' from a different standpoint .. and we certainly do.

(I wont say hilarious, as the process can be painful - but hilarity and amusement ARE there as we look back, to see what we once were xx)

Namaste
Pat

sonrisa
28th May 2005, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Thomas Knierim@May 12 2005, 11:41 PM
I give you an example. If I handle my two months old daughter not carefully enough, for example by picking her up too rapidly, I see whirling arms and legs and a distressed facial expression. She is clearly afraid of falling down, although she has never fallen in her life, nor did she ever make unpleasant contact with hard surfaces.



Thomas, obviously you know your daughter better than I do (actually I don't know her at all!) but do you think that maybe she is simply disoriented becuz you have picked her up too fast? We associate flailing arms with people who know how to walk struggling to keep from falling when they have, for some reason, lost their balance. But, as you point out, you daughter has never fallen or made unpleasant contact with hard surfaces. Rapid motion can be unpleasant & sometimes distressful- it's the reason some people don't like roller coasters, even tho they are strapped into the seat with a metal bar (which they can white knuckle grip if they want to) stuck up against their chests. There is no fear of falling out, these folx just don't like feeling their stomachs up in their throats. Maybe your daughter doesn't like the sensation of rapid movement, especially if her attention is focussed on something else when you go to pick her up, & she's not expecting to be picked up. There is a test for that- when she gets older flip her over, dangle her by her feet, etc.... (keeping a secure grip on her, of course) & see how she likes it. Some kids (notably 2 of my sister's grandids) luv it, others (like my brother's kid) do not. If she doesn't like it, it's probably due to the disorientation caused by being swung around.

I have noticed when toddlers, at least the ones in my family, want to be picked up, they turn up their faces, hold out their arms, & sort of brace themelves to be lifted off the ground. When you pick them up, their hands latch onto your arms as if to anchor themselves against the swinging motion. Then once you've got them got them settled in your arm or on your hip, they relax & take their hands off your arms. Even when you walk around with them, they are fine & relaxed, presumably becuz they aren't experiencing that swinging motion?

Thomas Knierim
28th May 2005, 07:44 PM
sonrisa: do you think that maybe she is simply disoriented becuz you have picked her up too fast? We associate flailing arms with people who know how to walk struggling to keep from falling when they have, for some reason, lost their balance.

Yes, it is also called the startle reflex and it is associated with the fear of falling. The scientific name for it is Moro reflex (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003293.htm). This reflex disappears a few months after birth, but adults still react in a similar fashion by stretching out the arms and grabbing for something to hold on to when they lost their balance.

Cheers, Thomas

Truthbearer
28th May 2005, 10:12 PM
.. then could it be the body has recorded everything.. and the body has a fear of falling - because it has many times in many lives.
And becomes an automated response 'fear of falling'.

This is the same for many unexplained fears .. that many have in their life, even tho' they really have not experienced - and cannot explain why they have them.
But they do.
See the past life .. the Original Cause. Where this fear started.
And the dynamic can change.

xx Pat

sonrisa
29th May 2005, 12:38 AM
Re: the Moro reflex- interesting link. Looks like you have a normal healthy kid! :)

bito
30th May 2005, 11:05 PM
Transcending fear, is about transcending beliefs, conditioning, pastlife behaviours that caused the fear in the first place.

The concept of transcending is also a belief, a conditioning, a perceived behaviour.

A belief to overcome beliefs ... :lol: ... this is the perceived spiritual journey.

Perhaps this belief in transcending is the 'final' belief ...

:)

Truthbearer
31st May 2005, 08:44 PM
Then you know nothing of transcendation my friend.

Transcendation is a physical and mental activity .. to eliminate beliefs, conditioning, behaviours and unwanted emotional responses.
It is an experience, therefore a truth - not a belief.

Namaste
Pat