Women's Liberation

[CSwriter1]

I have posted some information about how Germany was made different by Prussian control. What has happened to the US that has the whole world nervous, is not just about Prussian influence, but mass production requires mass resources and mass markets, and since the beginning of commerce, military might has played a role. One could assume traders who sailed the seas, were armed. On a modern world scale, it is not the individual ships armed, but the nation from which the trader travels, and this cost money. From where does the money come?

Wealth has always been the result of exploiting people.
The greatest achievement of civilization was to protect women and children from that exploitation.
The first nation to change this, that I know of, was the communist of the USSR. I am not saying women and children have not worked throughout history, I will leave that to women liberation people to make such an arguement, as they talk as though the only thing women need to concern themselves is bad husbands, and men in general.

I am speaking national values which become social organization. When the communist took control of the USSR, one of the first things they did was "liberate women". They did so for economic reasons, and they achieved this by destroying the value of the domestic woman. The propaganda campaign said, the full time homemaker is not a contributing member of society. We simply said, "just a housewife" and got the same effect.

Soon after the communist liberated women, there was an ecomonic boom as women flooded into the factories and took up the hard labor that in our own country was left to men. Then, divorce and abortion rates began to soar. Increasingly women and children fell below the level of Poverty. We can add to this our own experience of a return to barbarism. Welfare reform following the destruction of traditional values, has made all equally free to fight for surival without the protection of the civilization in which the live, and immorality of all kinds has soared.

Increasingly women and children were involved in crime and violence, both as perpetraters and victims. All of this has gone on for so long, we assume it is natural, and that the Christian Right has some justification, because of the moral decay we experience today. Christians explain this as the devil's power our lives. I am explaining it as national exploitation of our population for New World Order purpose. Control of the globes resources and markets through military force. This began as a Prussian general's vision of the modern world. It is very costly. It is costing us our democracy with liberty. The human suffering is intense and avoidable.

[abba]

Your view of Russian history seems a little shallow by ignoring the effect of the WW-II casualties of 25,568,000 military and civilians - mostly men (compared to 1/100 that amount by the U.S.). I would say that it was more than simple ideology that contributed to the "liberation" of Russian women.

[CSwriter1]

Yes, you can say that, but the communist took control in 1917 well before the second world war, and what you said doesn't change the fact that there was a deliberate propaganda campaign claiming the full time homemaker is a non productive member of society, and that we did the same thing, and destroyed traditional values. This unleashed capitalism in the United States and destroyed the strength of the family unit, which is part of the shift to bureaucratic authority over all of us, that is destroying our autonomy, liberty and personal power.

[abba]

In both America and England, the origin of women's "Liberation" was definitely associated with patriotic support of their country in the absence of the males to fill the traditional male-oriented job-roles. I agree that the destruction of feminine tradition essentially began then. It took another full generation for the drastic change to be fully appreciated - then Gloria Steinem, Ms. magazine, and the National Organization of Women (NOW) finished the job in the 70's. With "Burn your Bras!" echoing on college campuses across the U.S., it is no surprise that a generation later we find the "traditional woman" to be almost extinct. If I recall correctly, the 70's campaign had no capitalistic sponsorship; capitalistic interests were pretty much aghast at what was happening & took great pains to distance themselves from the movement.

It was the few women who had actually gained some aspect of power who led the way... and surprise, they found that millions of women cheered them on! Who knew?? Certainly not moi - like most men, I expected the movement to fall on it's face in a month or so and things would return to "normal" (normal being a recognition of those few women of superior intellect/talent, but pretty much ignoring them as a gender - except in bed, obviously).

Even today, women have resisted being put into man-categorized niches of power - individual and movements arise in areas that have specific importance to women, but that power can't be "steered" to other political areas. A good example is M.A.D.D. (Mothers Against Drunk Driving), where nationwide laws were implemented due to a small women's organization that almost instantly found broad support.

[vicente]

No woman will ever be truely liberated until she emancipates herself from Christianity.

"every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman". Clement of Alexandria

"girls begin to talk and to stand on their feet sooner than boys because weeds always grow up more quickly than good crops". Martin Luther

"If the church should have defined anything to be black which to our eyes appear white, we ought in like manner pronounce it black." St Ignatius Loyola 1491-1556

The women’s husband shall rule over her, Gen 3:16. In Ephesians 5:22 wives are instructed to submit to their husbands; or 1Cor11:9, women were made for man. Again in Col 3:18 and Titus 2:11-12, let women learn in silence and be completely submissive; for no woman shall be permitted to teach or have authority over men. The Malleus Maleficarum, a 15th Century Catholic text, summed up women rather interestingly by saying women being formed from man’s rib, are only imperfect animals, whereas man belongs to the privilege sex from whose midst Christ emerged.

Why do today's roughly 500 million Christian women concede to the loathsomeness towards them by the Bible and Christian leadership? Did they not fully realize their emancipation from women's suffrage? Do they honestly feel they can play ‘Pick-n-Chose’ with these theo-beliefs by saying yes, I like that verse, its true, or no, that verse is no longer relevant; and on occasion, even think they can change this God for a more loving God/Goddess version, and somehow that will make the reality of their intolerant religion, and their submission to it, be more palatable? A reality which demands its adherents to be attached to beliefs through faith, thus, in essence, the non-acceptance of truth, honesty or a life with unconditional love.

Vicente
:)

[Truthbearer]

Yeah - that had me beat for years!

but then again Vincente - many people see through 'religions' - man made.. male hierachy .. not much spiritual empowerment to the people (not just women).. just pomp, ritual and power.

and worse .. dogma.
the same old thing going round and round.
they should call religions 'black holes' :D

xx Pat

[abba]

If Women's Lib were to be associated with religion, it seems strange that the countries with the most virulent Christianity (which you condemn) are also the countries with the most Women's Lib (and freedoms of all kinds). America has not yet had a woman head of government, like England's Margaret Thatcher, but we're getting close.

[Truthbearer]

I dont see the liberated women preferring the political arena ..
more control??
I dont see the all-rounded, altogether male, interested in politics either.

Just generalizing here. xx

[Thomas Knierim]

We should also not forget that the first feminist philospher, Mary Wollstonecraft who wrote A Vindication of the Rights of Women (1792) was British. She was brought up as an Anglican. Wollstonecraft did not attack religion per se, but she definitely attacked society and its traditions. I think she even suggested to abolish the church altogether, as well as the monarchy and the military. It turns out that by the 21st century most monarchies are actually gone, but churches and military organisations still prosper. :lol:

Thomas

[CSwriter1]

Communist USSR was the first to liberate women and this was for economic, not Christian reasons. The flood of women in the work force improved the economy, and then divorce and rates inceased, increasing women and children fell below of the level of poverty. I may be repeating myself, but speaking only of the good of women's lib and not the down side and thinking it a Christian benefit, is in slight denial of the break down of social order and doubling of the cost living and increased economic support of military might. It is like people have been brainwashed to see only what they have been told to see.

[Ronagon]

The full term for the women's lib movement was never revealed... until now. It is:

"The Women's Liberation From Accountability Movement"


(Tell your friends)

[wacawacany]

how is it that people in general can fully believe and say that the bible is the word of God, and then explain later that there have been "revisions" to the bible over the centuries?? 'you know, as time goes by, as civilizations and people develop and change, some things in the bible just dont apply to today!' i dont understand that. could someone explain the irony in this??

[sonrisa]

well Kathryn, you must ask yourself, is the bible really the word of God? Or the words of the human beings describing & reflecting on the culture at the time when they wrote those words? As for people thinking that the bible is really the word of god, you must remember what old PT said- there's one born every minute.!

:)

[sonrisa]

some thoughts from the Rev Andrew Greeley (click here) (http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/062405WA.shtml)