Linguistics

[CSwriter1]

This spins off intuition and logic. The question of how we learn language came up.

I don't know about all birds, but some birds learn the song they sing. The window for this learning is very small, and if they do not learn their flocks song soon enough, they can not learn. Except, for those birds which continue learning like parrots.

I think it is helpful to look at how birds learn their language, to understand how humans learn language.

[scameter]

Well, to be honest my friend cswriter, I think it takes the Human contribution to usage of both intuition and logic for one to be complete, because, I think animals, not that i dislike them for i love animals, only possess logic, not creativity or intuition. my statement will generate debate, but i believe it to be true. that is why i think Humans should not shun their intuition and creativity in favor of their animal logic, for that to me makes them less Human. :think:

[CSwriter1]

Like too cool, Scameter :thumbsup:

When a rock falls it makes a sound, but would not call that sound language. Animals make sounds, and those sounds have meaning to the animals, but the sounds are not abstract thoughts. Right or wrong?

Do you know what a bejessite is? How useful to you think a bejessite is? What can it tell us about reality?

Language is awesome! Different languages become different cultures with completely different understandings of reality. I bring this up because so much arguing has been about the meaning of the word; nit picking that achieves nothing. This arguing is no more helpful to discussion than pointing out ssomeone stuttered with the key board, or words didn't flow smoothly and are poorly ordered. This kind of arguing isn't advancing the cause of learning.

On the other hand, seeing that our creativity and intuition makes us different from animals, opens things we might ponder. How do you suppose we went from making a noise to "the word" as "reason, is the controlling force of the universe, made manifest in speech". How are we as the Gods?

[scameter]

@cswriter,

Well, to be honest, as a Taoist, i think it is the awesome power of Nature and the spiritual power within each and everyone of us that has granted us the power to exhibit language in an artistic form.Although, I don't agree that language is resounded from reason. i think it comes from within us, from our spirit, as well as from our all-powerful creativity and unconscious mind. and, i think that animal speech is not abstract thoughts, as to the answer to your question. i am very glad that u like language. it seems like the love of language has greatly deminished from latter days and has been replaced by math, which i like math, but to me it is too logical and animal like. language, poetry, a romantic, musical view of the world to me is what makes life worht living, and makes it interesting. don't bet me wrong, i think math is essential, for man is part feeling and part logic, and it requires both for one to be whole. but, one shoudl not be shunned in favor of the other. i like science, but i also like poetry, and, i also think history has taken a terrible role of being in the back seat of learning and appreciation of academics. and, to me stuff like philosophy has been to much so emitted into logic and analysis, because to me one of the things that i thought seperated philosophy from math and logic was it's opinion-center and it's flexibility. but, it has been relinquished of those opinion-based side in favor more so of its logical side.sorry for the very long post, i just have a lot to say. :)

[CSwriter1]

Good that you have a lot to say. At least it all seemed the same subject, instead of three to six subjects in one post, as myself and others are prone to doing.

I believe there is a new theory of language, that we began by imitating bird calls. The chinese language would be more like this. It is also a poetic langauge poor for the technological development of the west, but good for quantum physicist.

In early human dung, the small bones and feathers of bird is in the excretement, indicating humans at this stage did not clean and cook what they ate. I enjoy trying to imagine other consciousnesses. To think we can understand human beings at any other time in our history with our present consciousness, is a mistake.
To attempt to think as someone who does not have present day language and information is fun. It is also a challenge to our understanding of what it means to be human.

I so agree with you about the sad lack of literacy and appreciation of art. We are experiencing Lord of Flies mentality, much as Germany did before the second world war. We replaced our liberal education which is essential to the defense of our democracy, with education for technology for military and industrial purpose. This is not good for humanity and I am very neverous about what will happen when my generation is gone. Will democracy loose the critical mass consciousness it needs to be manifest? Will we face a mass die off and loose much of what is good in being human? What do you suppose people will talk about when there are severe water and energy and food shortages? I don't think it will be the arts, and their children's college educations.

[scameter]

I am so glad you are so interested and dually appreicative of what i have to say. most people it seems are more Taoist in their beliefs and thoughts than they know, and i am glad you at least try to see the Taoist view through my eyes with yours. thank you! :)

[CSwriter1]

I am returning after some time away, and must reread everything to refresh my mind on what was said. In the process the idea that math is too much like animal logic, in contrast to all the liberal arts, jumped out me!
I guess in part, because I have been in a discussion of men operating on the animal level. That was an interesting and yet often unpleasant experience. Yes, without the liberal arts, we aren't that different from barking dogs defending their dead prey and territory.

[scameter]

Well, believe me, i do not by any means put Human creativity and obvious autonomy and liberal arts ability, as you call it, above animals. i think that Human logic, such as math, has been greatly delivered into an out of porportion section of knowledge and focus. i think that animals use logic perfectly, as i think nature, including animals, are completely perfect and infalable. that may sound extreme or whatever but i don't care, it is my definitive belief; for instance, when you watch an eagle diving into a forest top to catch a monkey in the trees, it's wings close at exactly the right time, it retains complete focus and occupation with the monkey, and it hits it with perfect precision and incision, and everything else in nature, save Humans, possess the perfection and infalability. only the Human presence or domestication augmentation can degrade, although never eliminate, this perfection. i think Humans are actually below animals and everything else because we think and we have logic and creativity and we do not see things as they are and we are not completely ourselves and we have alloed our civilization to crumble into a cyborg-like collective of technological drones of standarization where everyone that is different is a 'geek' or a 'nerd' or a 'freak', which i find to be very sad as one of my most treasured qualities potentially present in Humans is individuality; but now, we are becoming more and more like ants every day, just falable ants instead of infalable ants like them themselves. to reference to the Taoist tenet, wu wei, acting out of instinct and without thought or effort, which they say, and which is, infalable action, and is that which is used by everything in nature, to from a perfect entity. :)