Speed Of Light Consciousness

[CSwriter1]

Vincente, you said the experience of going at the speed of light, would be percieved as time standing still, and would be experienced consciously as joy. Is the correct paraphrasing?

If I have paraphrased correctly, please explain the reasoning? Would also be possible to experience shear terror?

Exactly what organs of perception are involved? How can one feeling instead of another be predicted?

What if what you have said is another form of heaven, wishful thinking instead of fact? Like I hope I would experience bliss and not terror, but can I be sure of that? This seems akin to "how well will I die when my time comes?" Will I gracefully accept the loss of ego and all the relationships involved, or will I panic?

[vicente]

Vincente, you said the experience of going at the speed of light, would be percieved as time standing still, and would be experienced consciously as joy. Is the correct paraphrasing?


No, I would not have said it like that. At the Stillness of Light (186K MPS), time is not perceived as standing still, time no longer exists. Timeless is synonymous with eternal, unconditional joy.

Exactly what organs of perception are involved? How can one feeling instead of another be predicted?

At the Stillness of Light (186K MPS), as I specifically wrote, "On the way, keep Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity in mind, for as we approach that light speed, time shall slow towards zero, space shrink to nothing, and as we cross a threshold where the mass of our LightCraft shall become as infinite, and we will experience dimensionlessness within the Stillness of Undivided Light."

Perceived and perceiver is to divided, sciential mind of phenomena (mass), what perceiving is to undivided sapiential mind of pure consciousness.

Like I hope I would experience bliss and not terror

As long as you identify with hope, you will never grasp reality.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Spiritual_At...eists/message/8 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Spiritual_Atheists/message/8)

This seems akin to "how well will I die when my time comes?" Will I gracefully accept the loss of ego and all the relationships involved, or will I panic?

The Bodhisattva Naropa spoke of the Yoga of Clear Light. Clear Light is synonymous with the Now, and Stillness of Light (186K MPS). If we are not prepared to recognize it (like me in my own NDE in 1974), the odds are that we will not take shock.

Yoga of the Clear Light. According to the Tantric tradition, everyone experiences the Clear Light of the Void shortly after death. Its brilliance, however, is so overwhelming that the departing consciousness usually recoils in fear and is drawn instead into another samsaric rebirth. By learning to recognize the transcendent Light of the Nirvanic Buddha Consciousness during his lifetime, an adept may return to it without difficulty when the shock of death threatens to disorient him.

OK,..most of us are going to live for another 50 or 60 years, so we don't need that. But what if a SHOCK occurred next week?

Religion and the God concept arises from the sciential mind (brain-centric), not the sapiential mind (thymos-centric); that is to say,religion does not exist within an opened heart.

University of Laurentian neuroscientist Michael Persinger, and others, have shown, through electromagnetic research, that "religion and its mystical experiences are a creation of the brain, and only the brain, thus having little to do with what is out there". In Buddhism, the techniques to still the brain, emancipates one from electromagnetic brain activity, consequently their spiritual experiences are direct experiences, and not permeated with voices,
visions and other belief inspired mental delusions.

However, from another perspective, it's not the brain, it's how the electromagnetic field interacts with the brain. What occurs if the EM field is removed or significantly lowered?

In Cardio-centric, sapiential cultures, where the Heart was honored and the Brain discarded as worthless, as in Egypt, Mesoamerica and the Himalaya region of Asia, there are said to have been zero EMF initiations among their rituals. For example, in the Kings Chamber of the Great Pyramid, if one place their head in the well worn "sarcophagus", that according to EMF meters, the strange multi- gabled ceiling causes a EMF null zone, or zero EMF area.

If EMF's are precipitating beliefs, is it not interesting that Heart-centered cultures developed methods to be in non-EMF zones for their sacred initiations/meditations?

The Hopi natives in the Southwest US have a prophesy which suggests that every 14K years or so, the Earths EM field collapses for three days. Most become so shocked from the instant release of beliefs (belief-free) that they pass-out. But those who can remain awake (those that are not shocked that all the beliefs they clung to for their identity were bogus) will reprogram the new paradigm when the EMF comes back on.

Gregg Braden, A geologist by trade, likened this Hopi tale to the first computers that did not have built-in batteries. When the computer crashed, all the data was lost and had to be reprogrammed. When the EMF zeros out, all the Earth data will be lost,...and be reprogrammed according to the consciousness' of those who have remain awake.

Vicente Marco
:)

[CSwriter1]

Vincente,

Perhaps I should say, I am aware of Buddhist and Yoga ideas and chose to reject them. The Buddhist have a holy book that is like the bible or the Book of Morman, full of things that are disagreeable.

Telling me that as long as I identify with hope, I will never grasp reality, is disagreeable. I think you are using a narrow definition of reality.

I know I would not chose to enter the light, over another incarnation. Perhaps in another life time or two, I would make that choice, but not yet. Not because I fear the light, but I love life as it is. I am just not ready to leave the game yet.

Oh sometimes I wish to restart the game, and suppose there have been times when I was ready to quit it, but when I was ready to quit it, it wasn't with desire for the great light and union with the oneness. Does wanting to play the game mean clinging to an ego? I think not. What is ego to someone aware of more than one incarnation? Gee, when playing role playing games, our characters aren't real, and the fun is the game.

[Thomas Knierim]

Perhaps I should say, I am aware of Buddhist and Yoga ideas and chose to reject them. The Buddhist have a holy book that is like the bible or the Book of Morman, full of things that are disagreeable.

Which book are you refering to and what did you find disagreeable?

Thomas

[vicente]

The Buddhist have a holy book that is like the bible or the Book of Morman, full of things that are disagreeable.

I would disagree about a Buddhist Book like the Bible or Book of Mormon. Siddhartha left us with 4 simple truths, for example, 2. suffering is a consequence of our desire for things to be other than they are. Buddhism also using Sutras (short dialogues of sort), especially the Diamond and Heart Sutras. The Heart Sutra for example, which it is said you cannot open your Heart without understanding it, hardly fills one page.

In my opinion most Westerners have a distorted idea of Buddhism. I don't necessarily fault them for it, nor their ignorance,...heck, I thought Buddhists believed in a God for half my life.
http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/beyond/beyond04.htm

Vicente
:)

[CSwriter1]

Vincente, surely you are not saying there is one form of Buddhism, and only one true writing? I wish I had the book I read so I could provide samples of what I found objectionable, and we could discuss this objectively. The writing was very sexest, and this was a reflection of the culture at the time.

Speaking of culture, Buddhism began in India.

Just because you thought Buddhist worshipped a God, doesn't mean everyone did the same. Please, try to avoid argumentive statements based on the idea that the person you are addressing is ignorant, and therefore, you are the authority. I am having a bad reaction to this, and I am really working at keeping this exchange of thought friendly, as several times you seemed to insinuate I am ignorant. I would bet you have a considerable amount of ego resting on what you write here.

More interesting to me, is the similarity between Jesus' parables and the teaching of Buddha. I think knolwedge of Buddhism is important to the understanding of Jesus. Would you agree?

[CSwriter1]

Thomas, throughout my life, I lost several books that I deeply regret lossing. Thank you for asking, because I have a need to express my past disappointment to find Buddhism is just another human interpretation of truth.
When I was young, I had a foolish hope for something superior to human thought. However, I think there is more wisdom in Buddhism than Christianity.

The parallels with the teachings of Jesus impressed me and I think we must study Buddhism if we are to correctly understand Jesus.

What I found objectionable was the sexism that is found in most early Chinese writing ( and around the world). In the Book of Morman, it was the racism that shocked me. I never became an authority on any of these teachings, because as soon as I saw human flaws in the writing, I quit reading.

[vicente]

Please, try to avoid argumentive statements based on the idea that the person you are addressing is ignorant, and therefore, you are the authority. I am having a bad reaction to this, and I am really working at keeping this exchange of thought friendly, as several times you seemed to insinuate I am ignorant.

Let's address this before we proceed. I said:

"In my opinion most Westerners have a distorted idea of Buddhism. I don't necessarily fault them for it, nor their ignorance,...heck, I thought Buddhists believed in a God for half my life."

Why would you be having a bad reaction?

Secondly, the word ignorant, in the English language, means "lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned". Are you suggesting that Westerners are full and complete in knowledge and training, and are adequately trained in the philosophy of Buddhism?

More interesting to me, is the similarity between Jesus' parables and the teaching of Buddha. I think knolwedge of Buddhism is important to the understanding of Jesus. Would you agree?

Yes, I've found knowledge of Buddhism to be helpful in studying Early Christianity. For example, most Biblical scholars are unanomous that Jesus never said/utter many of the parables that are attributed to him,...for example, the Sermon on the Mount.

Back in the 80's I spent an entire semester (I was a Religious Studies major) examining the relationship between Buddhism an the Book of Revelation. For example:

"As a Center of Mysticism, Ephesus was famous for its great metaphysical Colleges, where Gnostic and Platonic philosophy was expoundable, and where priests at the Temple of Diana were said to recite the mystic words Aki Kataki Haix Tetrax Damnameneus Aision. Even Apollonius of Tyana, the ardent Pythagorean, had an esoteric school in cosmopolitan Ephesus. One could imagine this city as something like present day New Age towns of Sedona or Tepoztlan, but on a grander scale.

Serpent or Kundalini worship is prevalent in the records of the era. There were Naasenians, a Serpent Worshipping Gnostic sect, the Ophis-Christos, the Serpent Christ, the Nabians and Nabatheans, a sect almost identical with the Sabeans, whose secrete rite of baptism, according to the 1918 Theosophical Glossary, was taught by the Buddhist Boodhasp. In fact, Buddhists and Naga’s or Tibeto-Burmese wise men had already been traveling into the area for a few hundred years along the Egypt-India trade route.

Naga, meaning Wise Serpent, is one of the few words that span both centuries and continents. For instance, Nargals were Chaldean chiefs of the Magi, and Naguals were, and are, the title of the brujos of some tribes of Mexican Indians, dating back to at least Quetzlcoatl, the Plumed Serpent.

Ephesus was indeed a ‘happening place’. John, the alleged author of Revelation, must have had a grand time, that is, before the ante-Nicene Fathers, which perhaps included the Irenaeus, irritated by his dialoguing with Gnostic Sages, appear to have instigated his arrest and exile. Just imagine the likes of todays faith-driven evangelists hearing of John learning how to raise kundalini, unsealing the chakras and discussing the old style spiritual vortices count, that is, where the petals of the first six chakra’s, or energy wheels, added up to one hundred and forty-four, plus the thousand petal lotus of crown; was endearingly called the 144,000."
http://www.ontosophy.com/onreligion.html

Vicente Marco

[CSwriter1]

Whoo Vincente, that was information over load. I think I am in love. I spent most my life suffering intellectual deprivation, and I am thrilled to cross paths with someone is more informed that myself.

I am torn between two things you mentioned. I have not read of Ephesus, before. Now I must find more information about this place and hopefully pictures giving me an idea of what it looked like long ago. I want to know so much more about this place and the people.

Then you refer to "tribes of Mexican Indians". I feel certain there was contact between the continents that has not been well documented. I have a National Geographic map of middle American with pictures of people who appear at least two African types, Chinese, Jewish (?) who by chance carried a story of being God's chosen people, lead to a place where God wanted them to live. May goodness, there is just too much to converse about. Pick you choice and begin.

[hmshutton]

[SIZE=7]
Gentlemen:

Jumping in with a splash at the shallow end of the pool, may I say:

(1) Jesus and The Buddha spoke to vastly different audiences, and it is, I submit, misleading to consider them entirely on a par. The Buddha spoke to those whose ancestors, whoever they were, produced the Upanishads and had already figured out that it is fallacious to separate Observer from the Observed (a leap we Westeners wouldn't make until the 20th Century). Amongst countless insights beyond price, the Buddha points out that the Observer and the Observed, being utterly innocent of anything resembling independent existence, are mutually defining, now and always and that, while they lack an eternal nature, neither do they ever disappear.

This is a far cry from the Immortal Soul so beloved of those who, whilst maintaining their allegiance to Moses, owed much to Hammurabi, those who never questioned the hypothesis that a Beginning there always must be, and the existence of a Creator/God to Whom awe is owed for, as it were, throwing the switch.

Jesus played to a far different crowd. I suggest you review your equations; you are dealing with very dissimilar psycho-energy fields.

Going deeper, the Buddha played to many different crowds and adjusted his teachings accordingly - there is no ONE version of the Dharma, except that version which is beyond concept. I think Jesus approaches this complexity in The Gospel of Thomas, whose audience must have been one fascinating bunch of freaks. Why else does the conventional church seem to need to change undies everytime it's mentioned?

(2) The Naga is alive and well in Thailand to this day, if the Thais are to be believed (and I certainly trust them for facticity more than I trust, say, the New York TIMES). They send up balls of light on the same day every spring (and seed caves along the Mekhong Delta with the most sacred and extraordinary of crystals).
Googling "naga" can chuck out some interesting data indeed.

Scott

[vicente]

Jesus and The Buddha spoke to vastly different audiences, and it is, I submit, misleading to consider them entirely on a par

I would not consider Jesus and Buddha even close to being on par. Most of what has been attributed to Jesus was not Jesus, but fabrications long after his hanging for sidition. By the beginning of the 2nd Century, the Pauline's, predecessors of the now Christian religion, Buddhism had reached all areas of the Middle-east, and along with Gnosticism (ie, Book of Enoch and the Serapis-Krst philosophy), stories from Apollonius, Mithra, and Attis (upon which the Vatican was built) and Jewish oral tradition guided the new religions tenents.
http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/beyond/beyond05.htm
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical...chapter_12.html (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_mccabe/religious_controversy/chapter_12.html)
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
http://liekki.tripod.com/dok/dok9.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/rob...ce/fiction.html (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/robert_price/fiction.html)
http://smithbrad.nventure.com/home.htm

The Naga is alive and well in Thailand to this day

Surely! There are Naga all over the globe. In Burma they are said to be Nats; in South America the Uragas, in Mexico the Nagals. Tradition says that Nagas washed Gautama Buddha at his birth, protected him and guarded the relics of his body when dead.

Speaking of births, it is interesting that Chaldean and Assyrian High-Astrologers/Priests or Wisemen were called Nargals, and were the chiefs of the Magi. And don't forget Nagarjuna, the "great Naga".

Vicente
:)

[Thomas Knierim]

Vicente: I would disagree about a Buddhist Book like the Bible or Book of Mormon. Siddhartha left us with 4 simple truths, for example, 2. suffering is a consequence of our desire for things to be other than they are.

That is true, but the four noble truth are only the anchor, the prime ground, from which Buddhist philosophy develops. It is quite impossible to view the four noble truth isolated, because the third and fourth truth lead immediately to the eightfold path, as well as to the concept of karma. This again leads to the doctrine of dependent origination, which in turns opens up a whole array of metaphysical questions. Finally, Buddhist thought covers almost all areas of philosophy, ethics, metaphysics, epistemology, and even logic, whereas the latter two are mainly later outgrows of the Mahayana branch.

cswriter1: What I found objectionable was the sexism that is found in most early Chinese writing ( and around the world). In the Book of Morman, it was the racism that shocked me. I never became an authority on any of these teachings, because as soon as I saw human flaws in the writing, I quit reading.

That is understandable. I also think that the Bible and the Qur'an contain many disagreeable passages. However, these two books also contain considerable wisdom, thus they are "mixed bags" from my POV. The best of Christian texts are the Gospel of Thomas and the gnostic texts, which are non-canonical, so ironically to get the best of Christianity you have to look outside the bible. The book of Mormon I don't know, so I can't comment on it.

I asked the question, because I suspect that you don't know Buddhist literature that well. The Tripitaka alone, which is the basic canon of Hinayana Buddhism, is not a single book. In fact, it is so voluminous that it would be impossible to bind it into a single book. The English translations I have seen fill a whole shelf, roughly twenty books (or more if you include the more obscure parts). The Mahayana writings -only the core of them- also fill several volumes and if you include the sacred writings of the various extant Mahayana branches, Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese, etc., you will probably end up with a small library. Definitely too much to read in one lifetime. :think:

Cheers, Thomas

[Thomas Knierim]

Regarding the Naga:

The Thais just love myths and the supernatural, so the luminous "fireball" phenomenon at the Mekong has traditionally been attributed to the Naga allegedly living in a vast cave underneath the river bed. Needless to say there is a more naturalistic explanation for the phenomenon. Here is the MCOT report about it:

While trying to explain with ancient Thai legends the mythical origins surrounding the Naga Fireballs out of the Mekhong river in Northeastern Thailand, scientific experiments have provided ample evidence for the authenticity of this natural phenomenon in the area of the Mekhong river in Nong Khai.

The appearance of the fireballs from the King of Naga Serpent is the simultaneous interplay of several natural forces, including a presence of condition that is favorable for the formation of Methane-Nitrogen gas with more than 19% of purity. Also the presence of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria co-existing in the Mekhong river habitat at depths of 4.55 to 13.40 meters, where organic deposits are formed on a bed of clay or sand with a surrounding temperature that is higher than 26 degrees Celsius and a PH value of the river water in-between 6.4 to 7.8 degrees.

As the sun starts warming the surface of the clay or sand banks around the Mekhong river, organic matter starts decomposing within the next 3 to 6 hours and starts emitting methane gasses. At the same time, pressure starts building up and the newly formed methane gas rises to the river's surface as huge bubbles exceeding 15cc in volume, pulling behind a 12cc nucleus that floats slower upwards. The surfacing methane gas reacts with the oxygen in the air and instantly ignites.

95% of the Naga Fireballs that are seen appear mostly in ruby-red with pinkish-red or crimson-burgundy hues inside. This methane gas explains why the King of Naga Fireballs in Thailand are mostly of uniform color, and do not emit flares, smoke or any sound, after suddenly appearing, they then slowly dissolve into the thin nightly sky without leaving any further traces.

The frequency and intensity of the Naga Serpent's fireballs vary also according to several other minor factors, such as the relative distance of the earth to the sun & moon, and the intensity of the ultraviolet rays B & C, plus to a certain extent, the local ozone layer depletion in the stratosphere above Nong Khai.

Studies have indicated that there is a much greater likelihood for the phenomenon of Thailand's Naga Fireballs to occur during the months of September and October, when the earth gravitates closest to the sun and moon, and the ozone layer depletion above Thailand allows ultraviolet rays to penetrate the stratosphere easily.

Based on those Thai studies, the 2 absolute indicators for the formation of King of Naga fireballs in Northeastern Thailand, are the presence of Methane-Nitrogen gas with a purity of over 19% plus a sufficient enough concentration of Ionized Atomic Oxygen to trigger a reaction that is called "heterogeneous combustion", resulting in the mystical glow of the fireballs of the Naga Serpent out of Mekhong river near Nong Khai in Northeastern Thailand.

Source: http://www.thaipro.com/thailand_00/148_nag...a_fireballs.htm (http://www.thaipro.com/thailand_00/148_naga_fireballs.htm)

[CSwriter1]

I have a bias for scientific explanations, so I will go with the scientific explanations of fireballs.

However, for the separation of Jesus and Buddhist teaching, I think although Jesus' audeince was not Indian or Asian, he had learned of Buddhist teachings. In fact, I think this what made him popular in the first place. He grew up with the Hebrew teachings at a time when industrialization had created a huge gap between the have's and have not's and social dissatisfaction was running high. The great poverty of some and contrasting great wealth of the pharisees, seriously bothered Jesus who came from less affluence. So he hears the teaching of Buddhist and mixes them with Hebrew teachings, and leads a rebellion against the pharisee.

Thanks to Ashoka's sending Buddhist missionaries throughout India and Ceylon, even to Syria, Egypt and Greece, Buddhism was spread far long before Jesus was offended by the power and wealth of pharisees. How natural for a someone who as a child sat on the steps of the temple discussing religion with teachers, to also sit on the steps of Buddhist and learn from them too. This would explain why some of his parables are also Buddhist parables.

I think a major part of our lack of understanding, is we can find it hard to imagine ancient people having a high degree of contact with each other. I am always amazed when I read stories of contact, because I must unlearn false concepts of the past. I think our domenant Christian culture has prejudiced our minds in undesireable ways, attributing to the exaggerated sense of superiority plaguing the US as this time, and I am thrilled to discover people who are not so limited by their culture.

[hmshutton]

Of course that's a wonderful explanation of the naga ball phenomenon but it does NOT explain the phenomenon away, nor does it address the timing thereof.

And, if it leads your heart/mind to a greater peace, sobeit.

I personally prefer the inexplicable. I believe one's awareness is sharpened by the unexplained.


Scott

(Sidebar to Vincente: are you aware of THE APOCRYPHAL GOSPEL OF JOHN? It's even further out than the GOSPEL OF THOMAS. )

[vicente]

are you aware of THE APOCRYPHAL GOSPEL OF JOHN?

You mean the Apocryphon of John? It's part of the Nag Hammadi. Iread that once, mostly in association with Iranaeus' Against Heresies. Thus, this Apocryphon existed before 185CE, but most likely is contemporary with Paul, circa 50CE.

:)