Black Holes Do Not Exist

[Thomas Knierim]

By Philip Ball, published on www.nature.com on 31. March 2005

Black holes are staples of science fiction and many think astronomers have observed them indirectly. But according to a physicist at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, these awesome breaches in space-time do not and indeed cannot exist.

Over the past few years, observations of the motions of galaxies have shown that some 70% the Universe seems to be composed of a strange 'dark energy' that is driving the Universe's accelerating expansion.

George Chapline thinks that the collapse of the massive stars, which was long believed to generate black holes, actually leads to the formation of stars that contain dark energy. "It's a near certainty that black holes don't exist," he claims.

[...]

He also thinks that the Universe could be filled with 'primordial' dark-energy stars. These are formed not by stellar collapse but by fluctuations of space-time itself, like blobs of liquid condensing spontaneously out of a cooling gas. These, he suggests, could be stuff that has the same gravitational effect as normal matter, but cannot be seen: the elusive substance known as dark matter.

Source: See full article (http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050328/full/050328-8.html)

[todd]

This not quite news.
We usually understand energy as mass<=>energy<=>light.
The problem is gravity doesn't fit here.
In our present understanding, the total disintegration of mass is light; no gravitons or gravity.

[venom mama]

black holes do exist


a black hole, for lack of a better understanding is anti-matter


to todd......

gravity is all that fits in here

a black hole is an enormous accumulation of gravity
if something is pulled into a black hole it will pull outward forever

there is no end


a black hole is space folding into itself


as for the universe expanding.....whose to say its not bouncing back from expansion



although its true the farther out we explore the longer it takes to get there, which would totally support the expanson theory


but whose to say it's not bouncing back as we speak?

[sonrisa]

doppler red-shift

[Thomas Knierim]

Black Holes

A black hole is an object with a concentration of mass great enough that the force of gravity prevents anything from escaping from it except through quantum tunneling behavior. The gravitational field is so strong that the escape velocity near it exceeds the speed of light. This implies that nothing, not even light, can escape its gravity, hence the word "black." The term "black hole" is widespread, even though it does not refer to a hole in the usual sense, but rather a region of space from which nothing can return. Theoretically, black holes can have any size, from microscopic to near the size of the observable universe.

Black holes are predicted by general relativity. According to classical general relativity, neither matter nor information can flow from the interior of a black hole to an outside observer. For example, one cannot bring out any of its mass, or receive a reflection back by shining a light source such as a flashlight, or retrieve any information about the material that has entered the black hole. Quantum mechanical effects may allow matter and energy to radiate from black holes; however, it is thought that the nature of the radiation does not depend on what has fallen into the black hole in the past.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole

[todd]

quantum tunneling behavior

Quantum tunneling behavior is a phenomenon described but not properly explained by the quantum theory. Mysterious behavior of certain particles that appear to jump in space instantaneously, and some other particles born out of nowhere generated the more recent sub-quantum theories that imply super light speeds and space/time anomalies . The black holes may eventually turn not so "black"..

[Ronagon]

Black holes behave precisely like empty space would. How convenient.

How convenient for the astrophysicists who have built their entire, lucrative careers on the qualities and behaviors of an entity that "just so happens" to be indistinguishable from ordinary, empty space...

It's black... like empty space... and it emits radiation in a manner that is perfectly indistinguishable from radiation that could have originated from other, "non-invisible" sources behind and beyond it... *L*

But, OOOOOH!! A black hole could be HERE! It could be THERE! It could be TALL! It could be SMALL! It could be anywhere or anyway at all! Again, how convenient.

Gosh. Why am I not surprised? Experts abusing the public's trust in them, through misinformation, propaganda, and brainwashing? NOOOOOO...

*laughs*

Here's a tip, people... Beware of lies that can be made to seem plausible on paper. Shit, just about anything can be made plausible on paper, if you want it to be, bad enough.

Plausibility is not necessarily reality.

[sonrisa]

Thomas, I've read that article a couple times since you posted the link, but when I just now clicked on the link to refresh my memory, the site has taken the link down. It's missing on NASA's site as well. I think I'm missing some of the physics here. Do you remember exactly why Chapline thinks black holes can't exist? Seems to me the universe is a big enough place for both black holes & Chapline's theory to co-exist.

[todd]

As far as I understand black holes they have little to do with gravity, or maybe it does because now we cannot describe gravity properly. Light has no mass (for now) but still cannot escape (in our model) the atraction of the black hole.
If the space surrounding the black hole or any big object is vacuum, then why do we get the space distorsions?
I think a bag of vacuum better describes a black hole - opened, it will immediately swallow everything in the vicinity.
I can better understand it if can think at it as an open gate to another universe.

[todd]

a black hole, for lack of a better understanding is anti-matter

A black hole is not antimatter. Anti-matter is identical with matter but with reverse/negative properties.
The collision of 2 opposite particles will result in the emmission some other particles, most of them transient, and of a huge amount of energy. We have experienced electron-positron and proton/antiproton collisions.

http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~rfield/cdf/chgjet...gjet_intro.html (http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~rfield/cdf/chgjet/chgjet_intro.html)