Needing Direction.

[Tiffanyg80]

Hi my name is Tiffany and i am new to this board. I came across it looking for some deep questions to inspire a deeper thought to either meditate with your just being aware of my thoughts.

I have always been a smart person and proud of it but learning of taoism and following it for the past couple of months it(my intelligence) has come to be my enemy with my path of the tao.

I have always been told things such as "you think to much" or " your always in your head". I never thought much of it until it completely blocks me from successful meditation and most of all from reeiving new information from my surroundings daily.

I was looking to see if anyone had some advice or suggestions. Thank you

My email address is Tiffanyg80@msn.com
If you would like to email me. Thank you again.

[Nick_A]

Hi Tiffany

I share your difficulty. The problem isn't thought as much as it is mechanical thought. If your thought is directed at problem solving in some way it is acting as it should. Our trouble is that during the day a mechanical stream of thoughts like a waking dream continue. Sometimes they even appear beautiful. This is a sign that we are not awake as we should be and are lacking in attention. You'll see that when you are consciously trying to direct attention, these mechanical thoughts stop. The process of real self attention is an intellctual process and during these states, our life force is used towards awakening rather than just being drained from us through dwelling in repetitive mechanical thought.

During deep meditation, thoughts stop also but my concern is for what occurs when I interact with life. I've learned that it is more important to increase my attention, the tool of consciousness, rather than to try and stop thought. When I am attentive as I should be, there is no room for this daydreaming.

If you try it, you will find that you can't do it for long. But it is a start and with practice, you can find yourself awake for longer periods. Attention is very important but often misunderstood or underestimated. What does it mean to pay attention rather than to have our attention drawn from us? Its not an easy question.

Have I made any sense to you?

[Thomas Knierim]

Hello Tiffany and welcome to the board!

I think Nick put it very well.

What I found most useful to calm down the mental chatter is Vipassana meditation. It is the traditional method used in Theravada Buddhist meditation, but it can be practiced completely outside any Buddhist context. There is a brief introduction to Vipassana method on this website in the Buddhism section. It is very simple and can be practiced in various positions. If you are new to meditation, it is probably best to have an experienced practioner teaching you the basics.

I should mention that this method requires sustained effort. Meaningful results should start to show after 30 hours or so, but this is of course different for everybody.

Greetings, Thomas

[jesupocaplypse]

Welcome Tiffany,

Instead of trying to not think, try to direct your think, focus your think on a single steady thing. Like Nick was getting at (from what i gather...), it's a matter of attention. Focus on something, like your breathing (in thru the nose, out thru the mouth, steady and deep, top of lungs to bottom) or visualizing a specific (noun) and maintain it. Keep your attention, your think, entirely on that (noun) and do not waver. It's not easy at first. It takes practice, like everything, but you will be able to do so for longer and longer each time. Eventually you'll develop to the point that you won't need to meditate to meditate. You'll find yourself in a state of constant focus, (if you so choose) capable of directing your attention fully, and intensely on anything.

[Micheal]

Breathe in...
Breathe out...

Repeat.

To remain aware of you breathe only and let everthing eles fall away. Allow thought to pass as a river flows over its bed.

Peace be with you.
-Mike

[DoWalker]

This is all good advice. Let me add that patience is essential. We ALL fail at some point -- our attention wanders, and we start to think about the inconsequential while trying to meditate. Don't get angry with yourself That's a toughy for me. Just patiently redirect yourself. This self-forgiveness is one of the great things you can draw from repeated practice. Remember that you're a new person with each breath.

Good luck!

P.S.: I find that imagining the in breath as a waterfall to be helpful.

[Ronagon]

Tiffany,

For the beginning passionate/obsessive thinker, I can think of few writers that are more enjoyed than Ayn Rand.

Check out her fiction books "The Fountainhead" and then, if you like that, "Atlas Shrugged".

After that, you can read two books by her living protege (she is dead now), Nathaniel Branden. They are:

1) The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem,
2) The Art of Living Consciously, and
3) My Years With Ayn Rand.

I know I said two books, but I thought of a third.

Anyhow, it's likely that many people will have very strong opinions on her to the extremes of love and hate... I think that that should be more reason than ever to read her.

[Nick_A]

Anyhow, it's likely that many people will have very strong opinions on her to the extremes of love and hate... I think that that should be more reason than ever to read her.

Interesting. Are "strong opinions" really good for a person wanting to get out of their head? Hmmmm...........

[mischief]

Raj here. www.midnightlove.tk

Recently i had a very bad time with my health. Still suffering, when one of my friend told my parents that i smoke...and they are not talking to me. And they have stopped funding even a penny to me. I don't find any part time job. Even in this heart breaking phase, my gal friend thousand miles away doesn't preffer to call me., Studies are in a bad condition due to all thease/ And my head and heart says it will blast anytime. Canm anybody help me with techniques of mediatation. I need to concentrate and excel in whatever i'm doing

[sahyo]

:hug:

http://www.iosho.com/oTantraNet/oTantraMedText.html

[sahyo]

if loving, meditating not necessary, however
few people loving which not require a meditation method

meditating will loving
loving will meditating

[bito]

meditating will loving
loving will meditating

also, loving until heart breaks completely open in questioning births loving with no questioning open

:loveyou:

[sahyo]

also, loving until heart breaks



when loving what's left to break?

:loveyou:

[Common Sense]

When speaking glass is over the snow, terrible mice paint dead pictures. Don't you agree, Asheera?

[bito]

when loving what's left to break?

no when, no what

:D

:hug:

[sahyo]

:lol:

wasn't written as bito 'trying' to suggest



hugging

[Common Sense]

And what should follow is an explanation of what you were suggesting.

This is a philosophy forum, is it not? Or have the rules of argumentation changed?

I find this an odd game: you say something almost incoherent (I'm being kind here), someone takes the trouble to decipher what you're saying, and then you respond essentially with 'WRONG.'

How unappreciative you are. Your writing is vague, ambiguous, but more often incoherent, so you're in no position to tell people they're wrong -- they're not wrong; they have it exactly right. It's you who is in the wrong here, but yet no clarification is forthcoming.

Please notice how easy it is for you to understand what I'm saying. That's the part the writer should play. You're not doing your part. So you're failing as a writer. I see no reason to discuss matters with you unless you at least do the minimum -- be coherent.

Common Sense

[sahyo]

raining doesn't worthy nor unworthy wetting

[beesting42]

When speaking glass is over the snow, terrible mice paint dead pictures. Don't you agree, Asheera?

this is an interesting quote coming from the person which also posted...

Please notice how easy it is for you to understand what I'm saying.

no its not interesting actually. its amusing.

[todd]

QUOTE
meditating will loving
loving will meditating


also, loving until heart breaks completely open in questioning births loving with no questioning open asheera

..is this true love or half love of love?

[sahyo]

Originally posted by bito@Jan 31 2005, 07:28 AM



meditating will loving
loving will meditating



also, loving until heart breaks completely open in questioning births loving with no questioning open

:loveyou:



..is this true love or half love of love?

referring which quote?

[todd]

both
hugging no contemplative
love not philosophy describe
love not through will achieved
love not achieved through meditation
love never achieved.

[sahyo]

hugging no contemplative
love not philosophy describe
love not through will achieved
love not achieved through meditation
love never achieved.

:thumbsup:


meditating will loving
loving will meditating


wasn't saying "achieved"

[todd]

asheera,
my thought is there's only one love, the true one. The one that you physically feel like pressure circle in your heart when love someone, like you feel the panic strangulating you. This not parental love or any other sentiment the English language associates to the verb 'love'. There is no such love for a flower, object, possesion or any idea or thought. This kind of love cannot be achieved and cannot be replicated. This love is not ecstasy, is not peace in your soul or anything else but love.

[sahyo]

:D

yes but not even thought-"the true one"

"when you love someone, like you feel a panic strangulating you"?
...fear happens loving?

[todd]

not at all, just physical similarity.... when I was in love I really felt it in my body, not in the neck, but in the chest, in the heart, like some sort of continuous muscular contraction. At first it was a strange, somehow painful sensation, almost making you cry...in time, meditating on it, became most beautiful, making you happy. It doesn't last....it never did.

[sahyo]

thanking :)

what didn't last?

[todd]

it, of course :(

[CSwriter1]

Tiffanyg80, try thanking your mind for being as it is, and enjoy it. Philosophy is such a great subject for someone with an active mind, because there are so many philosophers, and so opinions about them.

Check your local library for audio and video tapes such as The Great Courses on Tape from the Teaching Company. If you can find someone to share these tapes with, because each person will expand your consciousness. This is one of the most important elements of democracy that few seem to understand, many points of view expand our consciousness.

Going through a series of lectures, on audio or video tapes, will expand your mind beyond what you imagine now. While there is value to meditating, I perfer mental stimulation that is meaningful. Using your mind and enjoy it.

[sahyo]

it



love?

[Fever.Dreams]

when following the Tao it's important ot keep in mind that "intelligence" itself can be an obstacle in the way of Tao.( intended pun redundant/redundant pun intended) Intelligance as in rationality is dualistic (in western thought) whereas Tao is not. Remeber that there is a lot in this world which is not perceived through reason.

Humor is just one example among many. Try reading Nasredin and you'll see what I mean.

And if all else fails, consult your pineal gland and ask aunt Eris.

"Like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through"- Frank Dreblin, Naked Gun-

[sahyo]

Intelligance as in rationality is dualistic

no

[Fever.Dreams]

Originally posted by asheera@Apr 22 2005, 09:22 AM
Intelligance as in rationality is dualistic

no
mu

[CSwriter1]

It has been said that the Constitution of the United States is a compass. I think religion and philosophy, or whatever, a person's belief system, could be considered a compass.