Fast Food For The Soul

[jesupocaplypse]

I have been contemplating a metaphor (simili?) as of late, I'd appreciate outside perspective:


Religion is to Spirituality, as McDonald's is to Food.

Sure, it will somewhat fill you up, but it's not healthy in the long run.

Spirituality; is like a home cooked meal, made from ingredients that you nurtured and grew yourself. You made it, and it fills you up best.

Religion, is pre made, by other people, who don't know or even care about you except in advertisements to get you to come eat their stuff. Pre-cooked, by god knows who, and god knows how long ago, sold to you at a ridiculous price, and leaving you still hungry, and often nauseous.

technically speaking it's food, and it's the exact same 'food' that millions of others are eating and apparently enjoying... despite the fact that the last time i tried some it made me throw up, so vile it was. But a homecooked meal, as unique and individual as you are, tastes so much better...

:think:

[Nick_A]

Religion is to Spirituality, as McDonald's is to Food.

I believe you are creating absolutes that are not really accurate. The value of both spirituality and religion is relative

Religion is based on the idea that people can snd should work together for the mutual cause of higher meaning. Naturally it degenerates into corruption and dogmatism.

Spirituality begins with the need for the individual to inwardly "be in touch" with something that gives meaning. Without guidance, this becomes corrupted and degenerates into pure imagination.

So for me, both suffer the same fate making one as misguided as the other.

Spirituality; is like a home cooked meal, made from ingredients that you nurtured and grew yourself. You made it, and it fills you up best.

Does it fill YOU up the best or your "Opinion of yourself" the best? How can you tell the difference if you care to?

[NeverMind]

this has nothing to do with the whole spiritual vs. religion thing

but I NEVER buy fast food hamburgers. They gross me out.

the only hamburgers i eat are ones that my dad grills out at the beach house. Oh so yummy.

back on religion: I've decided I am no longer a christian. I'm back to agnostic status.

[jesupocaplypse]

I'M not creating anything. this is a metaphor i heard, and have been contemplating.

religion as meaning: a pre written set of rules and guidelines for your spirit to live by
spirituality as meaning: your own written set of rules and guidelines for your spirit to live by


:ph34r: I've never heard Pure imagination, refered to in such a negative way before.... as if it's a bad thing.. <_<

hey nevermind, just a suggestion, but how about just believing in yourself? Why do you need a label?

I'm not a christian, I'm not an athiest, I'm not agnostic, nor muslim, jewish, buddist, sikh, hindu, or anything of that nature.

I'm a lover.

[Nick_A]

JP

I've never heard Pure imagination, refered to in such a negative way before.... as if it's a bad thing..

Funny that you should think it negative while I take it to be positive. My two favorite definitions for imagination are:

"A function taking the place of a necessary function." and:

"The excess of desire over ability."

These two definitions are in the context of what a persons goal. Being that they help a person to achieve their goal I see it as positive. :)

I'm a lover

You should stick with being an agnostic. At least this is safe. I remember reading an account a little while ago which proved that most of these worldly troubles is as a result of too much loving going on.

It seems that there was this newly married couple and they loved each other. Now after a while he began to work more and wasn't around as much as he should have been so she spotted a young neighbor who knew how to wink just right. Anyhow, being that she had a lot of love to give, one thing lead to another and she began loving him also and there was now even more love going on.

Her husband came home early one afternoon and came upon them sharing a great deal of love and began to cry that he loved her so much that he couldn't bear to see her love misdirected so went into the closet to get his gun to prove his love to shoot the other recipient of her love. He was a detective and by chance also carried a gun so as to protect love in the world as well as his newly established loving relationship and went to get his gun from his jacket.

One thing lead to another and they exchanged some shots. One receptacle that carries expressions of love is called a bullet. One such expression happened to enter the leg of the very loving Mrs. Abernathy coming to the door with some cookies and was known in the neighborhood as always having something very loving to say to all the children. Three teenagers saw her fall and grab her leg and came to help. As they were approaching she let loose with a long string of words that didn't appear too loving but what else could they be coming from this loving woman.

Now Teens pride themselves often on their expertise regarding many of these choice invectives but the loving Mrs. Abernathy was now coming up with some new words that even stymied these young local experts so they ran home to type them into the Internet and discover their precise meaning since not often in their lives had they ever seriously blushed.

A detective friend came by and learning of the trouble began to enter the house to protect the people involved with all this loving. The husband thought it was an intruder when he saw another gun and decided to protect his loving wife and opened fire. A whole loving exchange of gunfire began from all these people protecting one another and when the smoke settled, all were seriously injured and unconscious except for the loving Mrs. Abernathy who was even now coming up with new words and establishing herself now as a true "legend" of vocabulary amongst the younger set. The account did not say how long it took them to heal and when they could resume loving each other.

Yes, stick to being an agnostic. ;)

[NeverMind]

I'm not a christian, I'm not an athiest, I'm not agnostic, nor muslim, jewish, buddist, sikh, hindu, or anything of that nature.

I'm a lover.


that was beautiful.

It's not like I need a label, its just a word that I'm using to describe my current state of faith. I want to be able to believe in some higher power and I want to believe in an afterlife, I just won't let myself be blindly faithful to any religion. I'm skeptical because nobody can prove any of these religions to be true. Religion is more than a set of guidelines and rules, its a belief system. I've believed in the christian belief system since I was born, but just recently I've retreated from that a little. And now I'm building my own beliefs.

What do you mean "believe in yourself?" you mean like they always say in conry movies? If you could elaborate a little thatd be great.

[sahyo]

I'm a lover.



You should stick with being an agnostic.
At least this is safe.

safe is imagined

what's to fear when loving?

paining-fear-happening-nick-imagining-safe?


proved that most of these worldly troubles
is as a result of too much loving going on.

no not result too much loving

paining-fear- seeks-proof which cannot prove?


loving not fear loving :D

[Nick_A]

Asheera, there is love and there is love and there is love. It may be written the same but they are different.

When I said "Too much loving going on", I meant that one form of love and unfortunately, extremely common, is glorified to our detriment. The whole story I made up with was to show just that.

It is because I value love that I am wary of them being confused. It strikes me as incredible how much unnecessary suffering and premature death has resulted directly from selfish love and its confusion with the pure sacred impulse of love.

[sahyo]

what's to fear when loving,
so tries advising trying as though can agnosticing instead?


It strikes me as incredible how much unnecessary suffering and premature death has resulted directly from selfish love and its confusion



seems as though self happening?


with the pure sacred impulse of love.


impulse?

[jesupocaplypse]

The problem in your story was not from the love, but from the Fear. Fear of a loss of love. ah... But one cannot exist without the other.


No, there isn't enough love in the world. Fear runs rampant. The US governement/media, are Fear Engineers. Fear Terror Horror. The major religions teach Fear of God. to fear his wrath. ugh, so much fear. on the bright side, it helps me to appreciate the love i find all the more.


I use the word Lover to describe my 'current state'. Nothing else is quite encompassing enough.
I never considered myself agnostic, because I've always believed in something. I believe in Goddess, I believe in Jesus, and Buddha, and the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and I believe in Love and I believe in Myself. I believe in Passion, Gaia, Thor, Elves, Space Whales, Fae, Tao, the Kwisatch Haderach, the triune truth, the universe, parallel dimensions and above all. Love and Life.

what i don't believe in, is organized religion. No man should Ever tell another what he can or cannot do/think/say/believe. let alone tell many others.

There are many many different varieties of love. All different. Yet all so very much exactly the same.




Why worry about what's going to happen after you die? What happened in the infinite expanse of time before you were born? who cares.

BE HERE NOW. That's my personal mantra. or "Live to Love, and give good tongue."

I'm actually not to sure how to expand upon Belief in one's self. But how can you really hope to believe in anything, if you can't believe in yourself? it's a little like the Tao paradox. The tao that can be described is not the real tao. How can you describe the undescribable? basically... look within for your answers. your soul, your heart, your spirit.

the kingdom of god is within you...

[jesupocaplypse]

Pulse of Love. no im needed. :D

good good good, good vibrations....

[sahyo]

:D :D :D

:D

[Nick_A]

Asheera

seems as though self happening?

Yes I agree it is just happening. We are not doing it.

Impulse?

Yes, like coming from a higher quality of heart (heartbeat) to be experienced by our heart.

[Nick_A]

JP

what i don't believe in, is organized religion. No man should Ever tell another what he can or cannot do/think/say/believe. let alone tell many others.

I don't know why you put so much stock in blind belief but to each his own. I would agree that the corrupted state of organized religion is not to be believed. However I also believe that for the serious seekeer, some form of uncorrupted student teacher relationship is essential. The teacher is INVITED to tell the student what to do.

There are many many different varieties of love. All different. Yet all so very much exactly the same.

As well as varieties of love, I believe there are different QUALITIES of love. There can be many varieties existing within the same quality and quite similar. However the differences in quality are not so similar.

BE HERE NOW. That's my personal mantra. or "Live to Love, and give good tongue."

Yes, if you are going to live to love such as me getting a woman into the sack, it is good to know how to use the tongue to BS and lie like a rug. The better the ability to give good tongue the shorter the road to the bed where the expression can adopt a new meaning.

What does "BE HERE NOW" mean? What appeared "here" that wasn't there before and where does it go when it is no longer "HERE"?

[bito]

I love you.

It's all we see, no matter the imaging in mind.

It's all we say, no matter the wording spilling from lips.

It's all we feel, no matter this naming of feeling.

There is only

I love you.

[sahyo]

There is only

I love you.

no

[sahyo]

are not doing



:D




Impulse?



Yes, like coming from a higher quality of heart (heartbeat) to be experienced by our heart.



but "coming from"?

[bito]

There is only

I love you.

no

No in awareness.

Yes in feeling awareness.

[sahyo]

No in awareness.

Yes in feeling awareness.



no one which "in feeling awareness"
as though can separate

[bito]

no one which "in feeling awareness"
as though can separate

True.

But self can separate self in mind's eye, so self and self can dance and say 'hi - wanna come up for a martini and see what develops?' B)

[Nick_A]

Asheera

but "coming from"?

Something higher in the scale of being. Something closer to the source of "meaning" itself.

Bito

There is only

I love you.

Can I love be sufficient to stand alone or is the "you" esssential?

If divine love permeates the universe as a nutrient for all life, could "I love" fit into this context?

If "I love you" is all that is, does that make faith, hope, and conscience, only an aspect of love or is the distinction necessary between these categories of positive emotions?

[bito]

Can I love be sufficient to stand alone or is the "you" esssential?

I was meaning divine duality in "I" "You" (one). Truer wording would have been "only loving".

If divine love permeates the universe as a nutrient for all life, could "I love" fit into this context?

Loving cannot be less or more. Loving is.

If "I love you" is all that is, does that make faith, hope, and conscience, only an aspect of love or is the distinction necessary between these categories of positive emotions?

Any distinctions are beliefs that love is conditional upon self's 'right' thinking, 'right' acting. Once beliefs fall away, only loving...

[sahyo]

But self can separate self in mind's eye, so self and self can dance and say 'hi - wanna come up for a martini and see what develops?'

not a-"self" a-"in mind's eye" nor "can separate"

:)

[sahyo]

Something higher in the scale of being. Something closer to the source of "meaning" itself.

is not "something" "higher" "closer" imagined as though can distance/separate?

[sahyo]

I was meaning divine duality in "I" "You" (one).

and if not imagine that?

;)

[bito]

I was meaning divine duality in "I" "You" (one).

and if not imagine that?
















:D

[jesupocaplypse]

Originally posted by Nick_A@Dec 8 2004, 11:51 AM
JP

what i don't believe in, is organized religion. No man should Ever tell another what he can or cannot do/think/say/believe. let alone tell many others.

I don't know why you put so much stock in blind belief but to each his own. I would agree that the corrupted state of organized religion is not to be believed. However I also believe that for the serious seekeer, some form of uncorrupted student teacher relationship is essential. The teacher is INVITED to tell the student what to do.

There are many many different varieties of love. All different. Yet all so very much exactly the same.

As well as varieties of love, I believe there are different QUALITIES of love. There can be many varieties existing within the same quality and quite similar. However the differences in quality are not so similar.

BE HERE NOW. That's my personal mantra. or "Live to Love, and give good tongue."

Yes, if you are going to live to love such as me getting a woman into the sack, it is good to know how to use the tongue to BS and lie like a rug. The better the ability to give good tongue the shorter the road to the bed where the expression can adopt a new meaning.

What does "BE HERE NOW" mean? What appeared "here" that wasn't there before and where does it go when it is no longer "HERE"?
where do you get this idea that i put stock in blind belief? let alone so much?

I believe what my senses, all 7 of them tell me. That doesn't fit into my notion of what Blind means. I think religions, based around someone other than yourself telling you what to believe, based on a story book, is much closer to blind belief, imo. maybe some clarification, perhaps i misunderstood. my eyes are open.

the teacher student relationship is a wonderful thing, and is quite necessary to growth. There is no such relationship in organized religion. just a text book. and people reading it to you. now if that's what you want, and you invite the text book into yourself. fine. but i don't base my life around biology textbooks. and neither do i, the bible. If a teacher has something to teach me, and what he is teaching is straight from the bible, yet it sounds of the truth, and feels right, then i openly invite it. but under those specifications, he could be teaching me from a movie or a comic book, and it'd make no difference. so long as it smells true.

Here's my handy 'test' for determining if something is truth or not: Truth awakens that inner sensation that this is something you've always known, and just didn't realise it before.

There are many different varietes, and many different qualities of Wine too... but the end result is still the same. It's All the same in the end.

When I said give good tongue, I didn't mean, even remotely, lying. Or anything 'speech' related. but if lying is what comes to your mind when you read that... well... :rolleyes:

my reference was entirely physically based. kissing and licking. Every girl who's ever had the fortune to kiss me, will always remember me as the best kisser they've ever expereinced. ;) Yeah, i'm being a little boastful, but i'm just that good. Not just kissing either, but all tongue play... :P

:lol:

Be here now, means exactly what it says. Where are you now? here. I am a being. That's the whole reason for being. to Be. Not to live in the past, or waste away dreaming of the future., but to Be Here Now. I am always 'here' wherever here may be, that's where I will be. In the now.

[Nick_A]

Asheera

is not "something" "higher" "closer" imagined as though can distance/separate?

This is where we understand differently. There is real separation or gradation of being. Creation is based on these degrees of separation or "being". I believe that evolved man exists as a higher level of being then man as a seed of evolution.

Buddhism expresses this idea in the Bodhisattva but modern Buddhism like modern Christianity has lost its cosmological understanding. It doesn't appreciate its importance so the bothisattva is considered on the same level as the unawakened. Frankly the way it is often described as far as postponing its own nirvana to teach others the Eightfold path almost sounds like the mother-in law from hell that insists on telling everyone else how to be happy and how you are suffering sitting around in your underwear with a beer and a good cigar.

This may be personal but I am curious on one thing. Is your path the "Course in Miracles?" I've not studied it in depth but this idea of the material being imaginary sounds like something I've read.

[Nick_A]

Bito

Loving cannot be less or more. Loving is.

Would you say that the love expressed by a regular person here on earth is of the same quality as the love expressed by the source of "Meaning" or something close to it?

Any distinctions are beliefs that love is conditional upon self's 'right' thinking, 'right' acting. Once beliefs fall away, only loving...

Love originating from a higher source may be unconditional but the idea of the "wretched man" suggests that conditions have been created where we must deny it. I know this is true in my case. Unconditional love cannot enter under such conditions except on rare occasions. As ironic as it sounds we are unable to accept it. The joys of our mechanical suffering deny it. :think:

[Nick_A]

JP

Be here now, means exactly what it says. Where are you now? here. I am a being. That's the whole reason for being. to Be. Not to live in the past, or waste away dreaming of the future., but to Be Here Now. I am always 'here' wherever here may be, that's where I will be. In the now.

I've experienced it differently. I've found that I am rarely here now. The assumption is that we are living in the now but in reality, it has been my experience it is seldom true. The reason for the dominance and the acceptance of the unawakened state is that we believe we are living in the now. I've found it to be an extraordinary experience during those times when I've been here now.

[bito]

Would you say that the love expressed by a regular person here on earth is of the same quality as the love expressed by the source of "Meaning" or something close to it?

Love cannot see 'regular' or 'person', and I do mean cannot. This 'cannot' is pain when we believe that love is in any way conditional.

Love originating from a higher source may be unconditional but the idea of the "wretched man" suggests that conditions have been created where we must deny it. I know this is true in my case. Unconditional love cannot enter under such conditions except on rare occasions. As ironic as it sounds we are unable to accept it. The joys of our mechanical suffering deny it.

Who or what has created these conditions? Why must we deny unconditional love?

[bito]

Hi again, Nick :)

Love originating from a higher source may be unconditional but the idea of the "wretched man" suggests that conditions have been created where we must deny it.

I remember my belief in my wretchedness, belief that love 'must enter' 'from above' to save me from my imagined wretchedness. Such a distance I had imagined between me and Love, when there is no distance for love to travel - not one centimeter, not one hair's width. I will say, though, that that one hair's width is one bit*h of a ditch to cross... but then again, I imagined the ditch...:)

[Nick_A]

Who or what has created these conditions? Why must we deny unconditional love?

Why we are in this situation is the result of the deeper meaning of original sin which is a study in itself. It is hard to appreciate since it goes against our normal egotistical assumptions of self importance. But certain planetary conditions warranted man's energies and abilities for transformation of the whole gamut of substances. When we became aware of the knowledge of good and evil or evolution and ivolution as they affect our species, it became necessary to put man to "sleep" so to speak so he could continue serving this necessary purpose. The need has passed but all sorts of bad habits were acquired while in this state so it has become very difficult to "awaken" in spite of all the efforts to help us.

I remember my belief in my wretchedness, belief that love 'must enter' 'from above' to save me from my imagined wretchedness. Such a distance I had imagined between me and Love, when there is no distance for love to travel - not one centimeter, not one hair's width. I will say, though, that that one hair's width is one bit*h of a ditch to cross... but then again, I imagined the ditch...

The question isn't distance but how to be open. This is a very involved question because often we think we are open. But our hearts are empty regardless of how much we talk of love. I will quote you something now from "Lost Christianity" since I've been using it on several posts though I know of these ideas from other sources. Anyhow, on p. 161-2 Prof. Needleman is beginning to understand what Father Sylvan was referring to in excerpts from the writings of St. Simeon. Prof N writes:

What is it that is underneath the words? I am certain that I have discovered it, almost at the very end of St. Simeon's letter, a line that I passed by several times before sensing its importance. Having stated that this third kind of attention, the attention of the heart, is the primary aim of spiritual work, and having then reiterated that everything else in ones inner and outer life must be subordinate to this aim, and having explained certain specific methods that may lead to error (omitted in the Russian and English versions), St. Simeon writes:

Keep your mind there (in the heart), trying to find the place where the heart is, in order that having found it, your mind should constantly abide there. Wrestling thus, the mind will find the place of the heart.

With this, suddenly I am known for what I am. I do not know the place of the heart; it is that which I must find. It is not something that I can assume. But the point is almost never made in all the literature of Christian mysticism. Or, rather, if it is made, it is in a language and form that we modern people cannot recognize. We falsely assume we can find the place of the heart, or that we are already there.

Thus the third method of attention and prayer is meant to guide us toward the heart, the center of our being; it does not start from the heart ; it leads to the heart
I know this is rather subtle and deep but I feel the point should be made especially for those like yourself who are so emotionally sensitive. It is easy to confuse the intensity of our normal emotions that are generated from egotism with these true feelings below the surface.

In this day and age I am really shocked to read such common sense. We have to find this heart in ourselves that is so hidden by our egotism.

Thee real question I believe is not distance or self justification in response to the word "wretched" but how to be open so our mind can recognize our heart that is hidden behind all our emotional chaos.

[bito]

I know this is rather subtle and deep but I feel the point should be made especially for those like yourself who are so emotionally sensitive. It is easy to confuse the intensity of our normal emotions that are generated from egotism with these true feelings below the surface.

How can you possibly make this assessment? Do you have any idea how egotistical and patronizing these words sound? I am sorry, Nick, for being so blunt, but it appears that you believe that your way is The Way, and that there is no room for the possibility that it is not The Way.

As for deep feelings 'vs.' emotional sensitivity, I won't defend your judgment with reasons why I believe you are way off the mark. You have leaped to a conclusion far beyond your personal knowledge of me.


But our hearts are empty regardless of how much we talk of love.

Please speak for yourself and not for me or anyone else.

[willow]

what is the difference
nay, what is the similarity between
believing in religion
and believing in yourself
Chiefly: belief
and belief is attached to the self
I
I believe
now the difference becomes not so great
for all belief
is dogma of the self

[Nick_A]

Hi Bito

How can you possibly make this assessment? Do you have any idea how egotistical and patronizing these words sound? I am sorry, Nick, for being so blunt, but it appears that you believe that your way is The Way, and that there is no room for the possibility that it is not The Way.

But there is nothing patronizing at all in what I wrote. I am not above it. I suffer it as much as anyone else. It is not a matter of my way since the same idea is in all the legitimate ways. Is not emotional temptation a common theme? Without experience it must be hard to discriminate. How can this be seen as patronizing? What is the nature of Arjuna's question in the Gita? His normal emotional response makes it so hard to accept the deeper realities that lie behind the battle and the killing. Talk about "bigview" but this question is one of the most profound of all time and the essence of the human question that effects us all.

Please speak for yourself and not for me or anyone else.

I am speaking for myself and no one else in particular. But, again, the question is still there as a feature of the condition of human being. I am just saying that sincere, impartial, emotional discrimination is an absolutely essential aspect of self knowledge necessary for the true seeker. This concern is demonstrated at the essence of all the great teachings. It is part of the very deep question of humility.


Again, this concern for emotional discrimination exists not just on my way but in all the traditional ways. The fact that it is misunderstood, taken wrongly, and turned into self importance for so many does not deny its legitimacy. It is hard to deal with but necessary, I belive, to consider and place on the table during such exchanges.

[Nick_A]

Hello Willow

Willow?...would yu weep for me? Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

I believe
now the difference becomes not so great
for all belief
is dogma of the self

Unfortunately very true. This dogma must be defended at all cost.

There is an old expression that is very much out of date. "It is not whether you win or lose but how you play the game that counts." It referred to the value of honing skills and stimulating others. However it has changed over time into its opposite to read "At whatever cost, win baby win". The supremacy of the belief in self and its celebration by others rather then in a continuing process of self development has assumed primary importance. What is that song: "Will it go round in circles. :)

[bito]

Nick:

I agree that mankind's addiction to emotional drama, be it secular or spiritual, does stand in the way of objectivity. Perhaps the underlying fear is that if emotion is set aside, then self will forget the joys and blessings of feeling and become aloof and detached to the point of going in the 'opposite' direction - to cold and hard. I have explored internet forums where, in the quest for metaphysical knowledge, all reference to the female principles of softness and tenderness and wildness has been blatantly denied and/or villified. Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts. In fairness, I have also explored internet forums where the goddess is worshipped ad nauseum, and the motto is 'no male energy allowed'. Two extreme other-fear reactions.

I admit that I fear the sacrifice of heart to intellect. If you look at mankind's history, this fear is more than justified. Yeah, I used the word 'justified'... :)

[DoWalker]

Thankfully, it's not an either/or question. The lowest order is to be led by your bodily urges. The second order is to be ruled by your emotions. The third is to make conscious decisions based upon your intellect. But if we exalt one and deny the others, we are not a complete person.

Yoga means Union -- the most common explanation is an individual's union with the universal. However, just as valid is the explanation of the union of body, mind, and spirit, which in turn leads to a union with the universal.

So to address the original topics of spirituality and dogma, I would argue that it's all individual. Dogma without spirituality is very dangerous, but joined together it is very strong. Also possible is spirituality without dogma.

In any case, as long as an individual's practice seeks buth types of Union, they're on a good path.

[Nick_A]

Bito

I admit that I fear the sacrifice of heart to intellect. If you look at mankind's history, this fear is more than justified. Yeah, I used the word 'justified'...

I agree with you on Internet forums. There is one major one that I have a running fued with over their sanctioning the use of politically correct bias and its resultant bigotry in practice in order to attract volume while preaching the opposite. Not many good ones.

I hope you know that you're preaching to the choir as to how both the concepts of intellect and emotion are cheapened. In all fairness, I don't know if in reality either the heart or the intellect are being sacrificed since this implies as though their quality and potential is appreciated to begin with. For me it is more that the value of their qualitative blend is underestimated because of our living in a dream.

DoWalker

In any case, as long as an individual's practice seeks buth types of Union, they're on a good path.

As you know, it is easier said than done; but I appreciate your post very much. Thanks

[Nick_A]

Bito

I admit that I fear the sacrifice of heart to intellect.

I remembered this old quote which depicts in its own way this union of heart and consciousness (pure intellect) in a higher state. I find it truly elegant:

Love is space and time made directly perceptible to the heart. PROUST

[bito]

I remembered this old quote which depicts in its own way this union of heart and consciousness (pure intellect) in a higher state. I find it truly elegant:

Love is space and time made directly perceptible to the heart. PROUST

B)

[bito]

Love is space and time made directly perceptible to the heart.* PROUST

And when it 'remembers itself', completely?

A Sip of Transience

I am a man. Hairy and sinewy in love and earth desiring. Emissive and free in this field of play and direction. I am
trouble
and also a spring of clear water
for the thirsty love of lovers of deep wells.
My root is in the sap of the divine,
and the sap in the root of my earth.
God becomes me well.

I am an opening to the - I am not,
and so I am your open mouth also.
I can fly to kisses and also to indifference,
and in the flight find the sky of both of us.

Within me, dwells the inviolable virgin.
Mary, Sophia, Isis, and other more ancient names
born of a magical myth making of lusty innocence.
There is a Spiritus of Holiness
that loves to tease apart this body of man
with sensual contractions of the inner womb
and birth a child for your arms only. Take it.

I am the gift, and the giving at one with reception.
I am man awake in the woman of Life.
Fire in the water.
Love becomes me well.

- Erik Ashford

[sahyo]

Love is space and time made directly perceptible to the heart. PROUST



not space and time

[sahyo]

I am a man. Hairy and sinewy in love and earth desiring. Emissive and free in this field of play and direction. I am
trouble
and also a spring of clear water
for the thirsty love of lovers of deep wells.
My root is in the sap of the divine,
and the sap in the root of my earth.
God becomes me well.

I am an opening to the - I am not,
and so I am your open mouth also.
I can fly to kisses and also to indifference,
and in the flight find the sky of both of us.

Within me, dwells the inviolable virgin.
Mary, Sophia, Isis, and other more ancient names
born of a magical myth making of lusty innocence.
There is a Spiritus of Holiness
that loves to tease apart this body of man
with sensual contractions of the inner womb
and birth a child for your arms only. Take it.

I am the gift, and the giving at one with reception.
I am man awake in the woman of Life.
Fire in the water.
Love becomes me well.



not even "I am"

[Nick_A]

Bito

I appreciated "Transience"

And when it 'remembers itself', completely?

I don't think it is possible for us to understand since it is a real awakening. It is better IMO, to admit that we don't have it. This, I believe, can lead to something beneficial like "I Am" though I know Asheera would not agree.

[sahyo]

can a-where-I which can am?

[Nick_A]

can a-where-I which can am?

Once again I'm not sure if I understand you. I think you are associating "aware" with "a-where". If this is true, I think you are asking if awarenes gives the ability for I to AM.

If this is true, I don't think it is since "I am" is a state of being where levels of awarenes could be chosen. With us self awareness or that re-membered state comes and goes. The reason for this is because we are a plurality and as a plurality, the parts that want and need it only stay active for a short while until other lower emotional states or just imagination becomes dominant. Without inner unity, we lack the "will" to remain in this higher state of consciousness.

Awareness is one thing but for us to respond to higher awareness requires a solidarity that enables our "will" and "will" is necessary to retain awareness in order for I to AM more than in flashes of potential.

[sahyo]

"I am" is a state of being where levels of awarenes could be chosen.

what "where"?

With us self awareness or that re-membered state comes and goes. The reason for this is because we are a plurality and as a plurality, the parts that want and need it only stay active for a short while until other lower emotional states or just imagination becomes dominant. Without inner unity, we lack the "will" to remain in this higher state of consciousness.

what 'where'?

Awareness is one thing but for us to respond to higher awareness requires a solidarity that enables our "will" and "will" is necessary to retain awareness in order for I to AM more than in flashes of potential.

what 'entity' which can "will"?

what 'where' to "awareness" "I to AM" "will"?

[Nick_A]

Asheera

It is hard to define "where" in the objective sense without an appreciation of cosmological levels. You may believe that perception is all illusion so "where" doesn't really exist since there is no separation and everything is "here" so to speak.

I think this comes from the misconception that God is only love. Don't forget that I believe creation was a necessity. God not only is love but can create. Creation is not love. Love is the unifying force while creation is the force of diversification. and is accomplished through God's will. I do not believe that Creation is an act of love as is often thought in New Age circles. Creation is an act of will. It is through love that the return to the creator is possible

This system of cosmology allowed each cosmos to be a different blend of God's will and mechanical laws. The higher the cosmos on the scale of "being" the greater the consciousness. Cosmoses manifesting on a lower level of "being" need less consciousness and are more reliant on increased mechanical laws for their functioning.

"Where", in the objective sense, is related to man's degrees of consciousness and distinguishes them. Higher consciousness is natural for a higher cosmos in which man's being is included and is under less mechanical law.
Yet man's life is lived in accordance with the earth's cosmology. The connection between the two is corrupt.

what 'entity' which can "will"?

An entity that is not a slave to the natural needs and desires of our earth. This requires consciousness. Normally we react from desires all related to external life on earth. Consciousness is not necessary; only good powers of reaction. Consciousness puts earthly reactive life into the conscious perspective normal for the life of a higher cosmos. In short, will is a function of evolved or "conscious" humanity that has conscious choice and the ability to ACT and not just limited to reaction..

what 'where' to "awareness" "I to AM" "will"?


Awareness in the objective sense is the awareness of levels in which one can find their place as it exists within the "Now". I AM is continually moving act of creation in which the cycles of evolution and involution exist. It is man's potential and is what is meant by being in the "image" of God. It is developed in the context of the whole of one self. It requires will to separate the wheat from the tares within or the real from the unreal within ourselves when established through the conscious awareness of this distinction.

[sahyo]

................ no where can looking see

............. no thought can thinking find

................. no imagining can cling

..................... raindrops splash

........................ evaporating

............................. shine

[Nick_A]

Asheera

no where can looking see

............. no thought can thinking find

................. no imagining can cling

..................... raindrops splash

........................ evaporating

............................. shine

True but its importance IMO is in the PROCESS of realization. This process is NOT turning off. Conceptualization I agree is to be transceneded but not at the expense of addopting a concept of avoidance. It is experiential. Meister Eckhart makes this point far better than I ever could:


"The mind never rests but must go on expecting and preparing for what is yet known and what is still concealed. Meanwhile, man cannot know what God is, even though he be ever so well of what God is not; and an intelligent person will reject that. As long as it has no reference point, the mind can only wait as matter waits for him. And matter can never find rest except in form; so, too, the mind can never find rest except in the essential truth which is locked up in it--the truth about everything. Essence alone satisfied and God keeps on withdrawing, farther and farther away, to arouse the mind's zeal and lure it to follow and finally grasp the true good that has no cause. Thus, contented with nothing, the mind clamors for the highest good of all."

[bito]

no where can looking see

no thought can thinking find

no imagining can cling

raindrops splash

evaporating

shine


Singing this includes knowledge of that. Divine duality. No thought can thinking find includes no thought finding thinking. No imagining can cling includes imagining clinging. Raindrops splash evaporating includes raindrops condensing splash.

Shine, like zero, cannot stand alone. Shine/zero = no existence. Not possible.

[sahyo]

Singing this includes knowledge of that. Divine duality. No thought can thinking find includes no thought finding thinking. No imagining can cling includes imagining clinging. Raindrops splash evaporating includes raindrops condensing splash.

Shine, like zero, cannot stand alone. Shine/zero = no existence. Not possible.



n0, bito....you read imagining-intrerpreting as though that :)

[sahyo]

when imagining-duality ceases
so will bito-interpereting as though can duality

:)

[bito]

when imagining-duality ceases
so will bito-interpereting as though can duality

When seeing duality ceases, bito will be dead :)

[sahyo]

When seeing duality ceases, bito will be dead :)

hehehe

[bito]

When seeing duality ceases, bito will be dead :) .

hehehe

:unsure: :D

[sahyo]

:lol:

[rich]

This game may be a little fast food for fun, anyway.

Elf Snowball Fight:

http://www.elfmovie.com/swf/snowball_fight/index.html