Essence Of America

[vicente]

Most people haven't a clue about the Christianizing of America since the McCarthy Era.

Christian Values are directly opposite of American Values
http://skepticreport.com/tools/10command.htm

Rightwing Christians have indeed been rewriting our history. We have indeed been taken over. Between 1954, when the Christian majority Congress disposed of our National Motto (E Pluibus Unum, created by Ben Franklin, John Adams) and replaced it with the Christian monotheistic 'In God We Trust",...and today, ie., when 99 US Senators voted against the May 2002 9th District Court decision which said that the "The Pledge, as currently codified, is an impermissible government endorsement of religion because it sends a message to unbelievers that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community."

(In essense, "Under God" promotes a situation where atheists, polytheists, Buddhists, Deists, Wiccans, Humanists, female based monotheists, etc, are not members of the Community.)

The 1st Amendment of the Consitution says "...no law respecting an establishment of religion (Freedom From Religion), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (Free of Religion)".

Under George Washington, a document was drafted in 1796, then unanimously ratified by the US Senate and sign into law on June 10, 1797 by President John Adams which said,
"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded upon the Christian religion".

Even though that document, the Treaty with Tripoli, less then two pages, was read aloud in Congress without dissension, and well publicized at the time, there were no complaints or public outcry, as when Christians balked over the illegality of the addition of 'under god' in the Pledge. In fact, at the signing of the above 1797 document, Adams said, "Now be it known, that I, John Adams, President of the United States of America, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End, may it be observed and performed with good faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; and I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill every clause and article thereof".

We are a Nation founded on Common Law, not Christian Law.

On February 10, 1814 Thomas Jefferson wrote that common law "is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England…about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century.…We may safely affirm that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." Christian values are not American values.

"The first colony of English-speaking Europeans was Jamestown, settled in 1609 for trade, not religious freedom. Fewer than half of the 102 Mayflower passengers in 1620 were "Pilgrims" seeking religious freedom. The secular United States of America was formed more than a century and a half later.

Most of the religious colonial governments excluded and persecuted those of the "wrong" faith. The framers of our Constitution in 1787 wanted no part of religious intolerance and bloodshed, wisely establishing the first government in history to separate church and state."

What about the Christian majority?

"America is one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. The majority has no right to tyrannize the minority on matters of religion.

Not only is it unAmerican for the government to promote religion, it is rude. Whenever a public official uses the office to advance religion, someone is offended. The wisest policy is one of neutrality."

US Citizens should be required to either get some basic US history on American values, or be labeled for what they are.

10 Fascist Quotes:

"The inability or unwillingness to hate makes a person worthless. If we do not hate detestable things, the quality of our character is suspect. The Bible commands that we hate". H. A. (Buster) Dobbs, Church of Christ.

"the solution to Islam is for the United States to invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity." Ann Coulter 2001

"I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good . . . our goal is a Christian nation. We have the biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism (E Pluribus Unum)..." Randall Terry, Director of Operation Rescue

"I don't know that those who don't believe in God should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." George HW Bush, August 27, 1987

"We must fight against those radical minorities who are trying to remove God from our textbooks, Christ from our nation. We must take back what is rightfully ours." Jerry Falwell

"I can't understand how all this can have happened, it's enough to make one lose one's faith in God!" Eva Braun (during the last days with Hitler)

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." Adolph Hitler

"I am fighting for the work of the Lord." George W Bush

"I am the federal government." Tom "The Hammer" DeLay at Armpac fundraiser in response to Tom Khandker

"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

10 Quotes from the Founding Fathers:

"It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong." Thomas Jefferson

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." James Madison

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" John Adams

"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself." Thomas Jefferson, in his private journal

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin

"All religions united with government are more or less inimical to liberty. All, separated from government, are compatible with liberty." Henry Clay

"In 1850, I believe, the church property in the United States, which paid no tax, amounted to $87 million. In 1900, without a check, it is safe to say, this property will reach a sum exceeding $3 billion. I would suggest the taxation of all property equally." Ulysses S. Grant

"Mr. Lincoln was not a Christian." Mary Todd Lincoln

"It has often been said that anything may be proved from the Bible; but before anything can be admitted as proved by the Bible, the Bible itself must be proved to be true; for if the Bible be not true, or the truth of it be doubtful, it ceases to have authority, and cannot be admitted as proof of anything." Thomas Paine

"the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion". President John Adams, 1797

Don't be an anti-American revisionist for the Christian Rightwing, embrace the values that are the essence of America.

Vicente Marco
:)

[Ronagon]

Yes.

Embrace the values that are America!

Read Ayn Rand!

[NeverMind]

YES!
Separation of Church and State!
Christian Values being confused with American values!
America cares too much about the religion of their leaders and not nearly enough about what they actually stand for.

[NeverMind]

I hear way too many people saying stupid, ignorant things like "i voted for Bush because he prays before every decision he makes" or something like that, implying that whatever Bush does is God's will. Does anyone really think God would want Bush to f*** up the environment and lose people their jobs? People are ignorant and it pisses me off. :angry:

[jesupocaplypse]

a lesson learned the hard way is less likely forgotten.

[jesupocaplypse]

Has anyone here read the DUNE chronicles, by Frank Herbert?


The unifaction of Church and state has it's benefits... Think of what the state could accomplish if it controlled the church...


(just playing devil's advocate...)

[CSwriter1]

Vincente, you are a treasure full of information I want.
Would you mind if I beat you up :boxing: for picking an argument with me that I don't want, and not coming with the information that you have and that I do want?

Geese, would you please stick to the anti Christian documents of our country? It would be so helpful!
:thumbsup: CS

[vicente]

Would you mind if I beat you up* for picking an argument with me that I don't want, and not coming with the information that you have and that I do want?


Not sure if I understand this. You can ask me whatever you wish.

I rewrote this top post recently for another forum. Took quite a bit of research, as I wanted it flawless. It goes like this:

There once was Freedom from Religion

On August 27, 1987 at a news conference in Chicago, Illinois, Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates asked the then Vice President HW Bush "What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are Atheists?" George Bush replied, "I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

Actually, George Bush was correct, since 1956 America has been one nation under Christianity's monotheistic God, and the former National Motto, E Pluribus Unum, 'From Many, One', was discarded. However, before the McCarthy Era, America was not a Christian Nation.
According to Article VI of the United States Constitution, "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land"

Under George Washington, such a supreme Law of the Land was drafted in 1796, then unanimously ratified by the US Senate and sign into law on June 10, 1797 by President John Adams which said:

"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded upon the Christian religion".

Even though that document was read aloud in Congress without dissension, and well publicized at the time, there were no complaints or public outcry, as when Christians balked over the illegality of the addition of 'Under God' in the Pledge. In fact, at the signing of the above 1797 document, Adams said, "Now be it known, that I, John Adams, President of the United States of America, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the end, may it be observed and performed with good faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; and I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill every clause and article thereof".

However, most religious people in todays America think that this Country was founded on Christian values. On February 10, 1814 Thomas Jefferson wrote that common law "is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England…about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century.…We may safely affirm that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." Christian values are not American values. For example, the 1st Commandment is in direct opposition to the 1st Amendment.

Most of America's Founding Father's were quite opposed to Christianity and its values. Neither George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, John Adams, nor Thomas Jefferson were Christians (reference quotes below). Thomas Paine, the Father of the American Revolution ("Washington's sword would have been yielded in vain had it not been supported by the pen of Paine" - James Monroe) and person who coined the term United States of America, said "It has often been said that anything may be proved from the Bible; but before anything can be admitted as proved by the Bible, the Bible itself must be proved to be true; for if the Bible be not true, or the truth of it be doubtful, it ceases to have authority, and cannot be admitted as proof of anything." Few Americans realize that the first Christian President was the 7th, Andrew Jackson, and there have been other non-Christian Presidents after him. "Mr. Lincoln was not a Christian" said Mary Todd Lincoln.

The groupthink of Christians today argue that America was founded by the Pilgrams. This is not true. The first English colony was in 1609 Jamestown. Fewer than half of the 102 Mayflower passengers in 1620 were Pilgrims. Nor does Christianity have deep roots in the 18th Century Independence of America. Such a notion is purely 20th Century Christian Revisionism.

This new Christianity induces that America was founded as One Nation under their God. Yet the truth is, according to such eminent persons as Herman C. Weber DD, an expert in religious census and statistics, few early Americans were actually affiliated with Christianity. In the Yearbooks of American Churches, the census of 1800 showed just 6.9% of US citizens as belonging to a church. By 1850, Church membership rose to 15.5%. In 1900, Christians doubled their number to 37%. But, not until 1942, just 8 years before Senator Joseph McCarthy brought his conservative monotheism into government, and subsequently the Republican Party into the power it knows today, did Christian participation exceed 50%.

Today, all US Senators, whether Republican or Democrat, following their vote against the 9th Circuit Court, can in essense be labled anti-Americans.

In May 2002, the 9th Circuit Court said that the "The Pledge, as currently codified, is an impermissible government endorsement of religion because it sends a message to unbelievers that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community."

In other words they said "Under God" promoted a situation where Atheists, Polytheists, Buddhists, Deists, Wiccans, Humanists, Brights, and those into Ontosophy, are not members of the Community. Nor, as George Bush said, "should they be considered patriots."

Written in 1892 and adopted by Congress as a patriotic tribute in 1942, the pledge did not originally include "under God.” Congress inserted the Constitutionally illegal phrase in 1954 during the McCarthy Era. Since then, Christian politicians have continued an agenda to make illegality legal, in violation of their oath to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States". Instead they have put their religion beliefs above the Law, and in principle engaged in the insurrection and rebellion against America (Section 3 of the 14th Amendment).

Unfortunately, many Americans haven't a clue about their Country. America is not one nation under a Christian majority, but one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. The majority has no right to tyrannize the non-monotheists on matters of religion.

When history is viewed as it was, verses how todays Christians wanted it to be, the intent of the 1st Amendment is obvious. "...no law respecting an establishment of religion (FREEDOM FROM RELIGION), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (FREEDOM OF RELIGION).

Vicente Marco
Albuquerque, NM

Founding Father quotes:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature" George Washington

"He [the Rev. Mr. Whitefield] used, indeed, sometimes to pray for my conversion, but never had the satisfaction of believing that his prayers were heard." Franklin's Autobiography

"I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian..." Ethan Allen

"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity." John Adams

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." Thomas Jefferson

"Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses, who gave an order to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and then rape the daughters. One of the most horrible atrocities found in the literature of any nation. I would not dishonor my Creator's name by attaching it to this filthy book." Thomas Paine

"Christianity is the cause of pride and indolence in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." James Madison

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them." Abraham Lincoln

[sojourner]

The majority has no right to tyrannize the non-monotheists on matters of religion.

well said. each person's religion is the answer to a need that he/she has that society cannot quite satisfy, a need that lies at the vortex of one's being. no matter how we try to organize and reorganize our society, there are functions only religion can perform. No state can survive without religion-in whatever form it may be. When robbed of the freedom to practice their religion, humanity will most likely lose its civility. People will kill for their religion. It is the primary force in which the structure of society rests.

[sonrisa]

Originally posted by sojourner

When robbed of the freedom to practice their religion, humanity will most likely lose its civility. People will kill for their religion.

That is civilized behavior?

"religion is the opium of the people" -Karl Marx

perhaps human civilization will become greater once society kicks that barbaric monkey off it's back

[CSwriter1]

Vicente, what I wrote didn't make sense, because my words were mixed up, as usual. :duh:

rereading the first post in this thread, it stands out that this Christian thing got really out of control in the 1950's when we were opposing the non-religious USSR.
Christianity became part of the propaganda to mobilize the cold war. <_<

Okay, where can we go with this? Does anyone have more information on the promotion of Christianity during the cold war period? How about validating the belief that without religion people loose control and do terrible things? Was this true of the USSR? The communist I have expereinced have been very care, socially concerned people.

[vicente]

this Christian thing got really out of control in the 1950's when we were opposing the non-religious USSR.


And now, people like the Wall Builders, suggest that America was always a Christian country,...a complete opposite of the actual history.

If you tell a lie long enough the say, the Sheeple will beLIEve.

everything the United States are not
http://skepticreport.com/tools/10command.htm

Freedom From Religion
http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/?t=xian.txt

Separation of Church and State
http://www.au.org/site/PageServer

No beliefs
http://nobeliefs.com/index.htm

MISQUOTING BY THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/misqidx.htm

Understanding Fallacies
http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/toc.php

Valinda's
http://members.aol.com/valinda555/atheism.html

Christianity Meme
http://www.christianitymeme.org/

REFUTING MISSIONARIES
http://www.jdstone.org/cr/files/part2thela...ceforjesus.html (http://www.jdstone.org/cr/files/part2thelackofhistoricalevidenceforjesus.html)

Truth Be Known
http://www.truthbeknown.com/

Endventure
http://smithbrad.nventure.com/home.htm

David Icke
http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/c...ity/origins.htm (http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/christianity/origins.htm)

Cure for Christianity
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/library.html

Atheist Populations
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
http://members.aol.com/porchfour/religion/populate.htm

Infidel Guy
http://infidelguy.com/

Theo Watch
http://www.theocracywatch.org/

List of Quotations
http://www.positiveatheism.org/index.shtml

End of Faith
http://www.samharris.org/

Restore our pledge
http://www.restorethepledge.com/

:)

[CSwriter1]

Okay Vicente, I will mail your post to myself for reference, but now the other side is rationalism is too extreme too. I like the imagery of Greek gods. We need a sense of awe and reverence, and to leave room for the unknown.

People who think they can know absolute truth, are absolutely dangerous people. Decisions based on rationale are not always fit for human beings. Hum, I am thinking we need work on a quantum physics consciousness, understanding we predict a proton will hit a target, but not which one. What is right for some humans, isn't right for all humans. I think we were better off in a way, when we knew we didn't know, and couldn't do much, and lived by the grace of God. You know what I mean?

I hope my life slows down enough for me to get to the U of O library and check out the 1950 government documents the contain religious motives. I know if 1958, when the National Defence Education Act was written, we replaced liberal education education for technology and left moral training to the church, but thanks to you Vincente, I now think I can better document and explain this.

[venom mama]

my boyfriend is a leutinent in the army. infantry.


he was briefed not to long ago and told me some things that were not supposed to leave that room. i'll tell ya'll, this war is not going to end anytime soon. it's fixin' to get alot bigger.


i used to be so pro america. now i hate the gov't so much. to many friends have been killed.

i'm so sick of bush thinking he can just play with them like toy soldiers.

i mean, yes, i hate the terrorists too and i hope they all get real ****ed up and suffer horribly. but i blame our gov't too for taking the lives of my friends.

**** this war.

:angry:

[CSwriter1]

Yes, I feel sad about the number of people who do not realize what the New World Order means. Actually, it totally blows my mind that some highly intelligent people see only the positive economic aspects of the New World Order, and don't understand the essential military aspect of it.

How could people so completely miss, the Bush New World Order first announced by Bush senior, is the same New World Order Hitler tried to establish?

I think the weakest peice of this nightmare is the religious one. So back to the book offering a new way to see God, and putting an end to this religious rip off.
If we can crush Bush's religious agenda, I think we will achieve something important.

Thanks Vincente for the list of people trying to clear up this religious mess.

[CSwriter1]

Sojourner, What about communism? It didn't rely on religion. There are problems with central planning that caused the USSR to fail, but I think communism did instill a morality and social organization without religion.

[zygoat]

Who said this?????

As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensible duty of all government, to protect all conscientious professors thereof, and I know of no other business which government hath to do therewith. Let a man throw aside that narrowness of soul, that selfishness of principle, which the niggards of all professions are so unwilling to part with, and he will be at once delivered of his fears on that head. Suspicion is the companion of mean souls, and the bane of all good society. For myself, I fully and conscientiously believe, that it is the will of the Almighty, that there should be diversity of religious opinions among us: It affords a larger field for our Christian kindness. Were we all of one way of thinking, our religious dispositions would want matter for probation; and on this liberal principle, I look on the various denominations among us, to be like children of the same family, differing only, in what is called, their Christian names.

any guesses??? <_<

[zygoat]

where'd this come from and when????
Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds; that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible of restraint; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments, or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do, but to extend it by its influence on reason alone; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time: <_<

[zygoat]

anyone remember this classic??or who said it???

"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor, and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint committee requested me to commend to the people of United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness, now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next, to be devoted to the service of that great and glorious Being, Who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or will be."

:unsure:

[zygoat]

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

notice....I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"

[zygoat]

Who said this?????

As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensible duty of all government, to protect all conscientious professors thereof, and I know of no other business which government hath to do therewith. Let a man throw aside that narrowness of soul, that selfishness of principle, which the niggards of all professions are so unwilling to part with, and he will be at once delivered of his fears on that head. Suspicion is the companion of mean souls, and the bane of all good society. For myself, I fully and conscientiously believe, that it is the will of the Almighty, that there should be diversity of religious opinions among us: It affords a larger field for our Christian kindness. Were we all of one way of thinking, our religious dispositions would want matter for probation; and on this liberal principle, I look on the various denominations among us, to be like children of the same family, differing only, in what is called, their Christian names.

Common Sense
Thomas Paine
1776

[zygoat]

where'd this come from and when????

Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds; that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible of restraint; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments, or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do, but to extend it by its influence on reason alone; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time:

The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom
A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom 1786

[zygoat]

anyone remember this classic??or who said it???

"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor, and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint committee requested me to commend to the people of United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness, now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next, to be devoted to the service of that great and glorious Being, Who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or will be."


George Washington
THE FIRST THANKSGIVING PROCLAMATION - OCTOBER 3, 1789

[zygoat]

The First Thanksgiving Proclamation

JUNE 20, 1676




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Holy God having by a long and Continual Series of his Afflictive dispensations in and by the present Warr with the Heathen Natives of this land, written and brought to pass bitter things against his own Covenant people in this wilderness, yet so that we evidently discern that in the midst of his judgements he hath remembered mercy, having remembered his Footstool in the day of his sore displeasure against us for our sins, with many singular Intimations of his Fatherly Compassion, and regard; reserving many of our Towns from Desolation Threatened, and attempted by the Enemy, and giving us especially of late with many of our Confederates many signal Advantages against them, without such Disadvantage to ourselves as formerly we have been sensible of, if it be the Lord's mercy that we are not consumed, It certainly bespeaks our positive Thankfulness, when our Enemies are in any measure disappointed or destroyed; and fearing the Lord should take notice under so many Intimations of his returning mercy, we should be found an Insensible people, as not standing before Him with Thanksgiving, as well as lading him with our Complaints in the time of pressing Afflictions:

The Council has thought meet to appoint and set apart the 29th day of this instant June, as a day of Solemn Thanksgiving and praise to God for such his Goodness and Favour, many Particulars of which mercy might be Instanced, but we doubt not those who are sensible of God's Afflictions, have been as diligent to espy him returning to us; and that the Lord may behold us as a People offering Praise and thereby glorifying Him; the Council doth commend it to the Respective Ministers, Elders and people of this Jurisdiction; Solemnly and seriously to keep the same Beseeching that being perswaded by the mercies of God we may all, even this whole people offer up our bodies and soulds as a living and acceptable Service unto God by Jesus Christ."

------------------------------------

The First Thanksgiving Proclamation (June 20, 1676)

[zygoat]

Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death!

March 23, 1775
By Patrick Henry
(excerpted)
There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free--if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

[zygoat]

Thomas Jefferson quotes...

"The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819. ME 19:416

"Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that... of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to John Thomas et al., 1807. ME 16:291

"In our early struggles for liberty, religious freedom could not fail to become a primary object." --Thomas Jefferson to Baltimore Baptists, 1808. ME 16:317

"Religion, as well as reason, confirms the soundness of those principles on which our government has been founded and its rights asserted." --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815. ME 14:283

"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:382

"The rights [to religious freedom] are of the natural rights of mankind, and... if any act shall be... passed to repeal [an act granting those rights] or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right." --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. (*) ME 2:303, Papers 2:546

"God... has formed us moral agents... that we may promote the happiness of those with whom He has placed us in society, by acting honestly towards all, benevolently to those who fall within our way, respecting sacredly their rights, bodily and mental, and cherishing especially their freedom of conscience, as we value our own." --Thomas Jefferson to Miles King, 1814. ME 14:197

[sonrisa]

***
Originally posted by NeverMind@Nov 10 2004+ 04:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NeverMind@Nov 10 2004 @ 04:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Does anyone really think God would want Bush to f*** up the environment and lose people their jobs? People are ignorant and it pisses me off.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin--venomgirl@Aug 19 2005@ 02:52 PM
i used to be so pro america. now i hate the gov't so much. to many friends have been killed.
i'm so sick of bush thinking he can just play with them like toy soldiers[/quote]

Venomgirl, don't confuse America with the bushits, they do not represent our country, they hijacked it for their own greedy purposes & we must take our country back from them. Every last one of those oil-greedy bastards should be dropped into New Orleans on a sandbag. Let them swim with the gators.
Teach them a little about the encvironent. :devilish:

[MidnightSun]

I dont think that would change something though lol Well USA produces 45 percent air impurity and its only 5 percent ppl of the world who lives there. So i wish to save the planet but why they dont want to accept that Kyoto protocol...Its time to sacrifice something for better future..accualty im pissed off on USA...So take back THAT america and make things right :thumbsup:

[zygoat]

America has some of the strictest pollution policies of any major nation.Kyoto would put America in a position wherein they could be fraught with frivolous lawsuits by small countries that do not contribute to the worlds energy policies or protection policies that would only decrease the pollution by 0.14% and further increase America's dependance on foreign energy(oil)and send even more manufacturing jobs elsewhere because the bigger companies will just relocate to other countries for cheaper labor to recover the costs caused by the restrictions that would be put in place.

[MidnightSun]

well we are going torun out of iol anyway :lol: so less polution ( also problems about disorganising after that) if only we will make those years...Amsterdam, Shangai will drown in 2013 ( water level rising ,scientists made a model of the planet in early future and a lot of island does not exsist there). Put solution here, FAST!

[millipodium]

1) The pledge is not a LAW. So "congress shall pass no law regarding the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof" is not violated.

2) The neocons are not christians, They are Masons/Theists/Noahides.

[millipodium]

Vicente, do you reject the new world order the neocons want, or do you just want a bigger piece of the power?

Libs are pretty much for the sellout of america as well, but are MORE aggressively taking away the rights of free speech, right to arms, and tolerance of religion.

[millipodium]

huh?


Which word is giving you problems namtso?

[namtso]

Which word is giving you problems namtso?

Refer to the Insulted (http://www.thebigview.com/discussion/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=1055&st=45) thread in the Religion section for my reply.

Ref.: http://www.thebigview.com/discussion/index...=3&t=1055&st=45 (http://www.thebigview.com/discussion/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=1055&st=45)