Ignorance Of Liberal Bashers

[vicente]

“a Liberal is someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, that is what a ‘Liberal’ means, and I’m proud to say I’m a ‘Liberal.’” John F Kennedy
September 14, 1960

If you're not Liberal, you're Illiberal.

:)

[NeverMind]

Liberal: (adj.) Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded

I'd like to be that.

con·ser·va·tive:*(kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.
Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

Change is good. Conservatism sucks.

[zygoat]

to all,
I see that KERRORISM is on the rise!!!

[vicente]

Dishonest Dubya
http://www.kaicurryservices.com/peacecandy...dishonestdubya/ (http://www.kaicurryservices.com/peacecandy/gwbush/dishonestdubya/)

[jesupocaplypse]

Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction, Axis of Evil, blah blah FEAR FEAR FEAR. Nothing but Fear Engineers. Keep the whole world afraid, and docile, and they are easy to control.... :tremble: makes me laugh. If a "terrorist" (whatever that may be... {anyone who opposes the American government?}) wants to drop a bomb on me. Fine. big deal. I don't care, i'd be dead. meh. I'm certainly not going to cower in fear or even slightly worry about it. Shit happens. Yet all that is ever on the news: bombs, death, disastor, destruction and politicians. The Human Organism is suicidal. Dear thing, has so much to live for... :(


Sorry if this is kinda irrelevant to the topic... just my two cents, for what their worth... 1/2 a cent. maybe. PEACE

[NeverMind]

True, true.
The news media pumps us full of fear so we're all on edge all the time. The leaders are just trying to get us to unite against a common enemy so they can be seen as our fearless leader. The amount of violent crimes in the US has actually gone down since 1990. But you wouldn't know that from the news since the amount of violent crimes shown has gone up 300%! ITS BULLSHIT!

[evan]

zygoat -

i hate to "repeat-post" here, but didn't elicit a response from you before, and hoped to. As your post was essentially a big liberal bash, however, I thought it would be appropriate to address it here...
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yes, it's true.. i frequently neglect to capitalize a number of capital-worthy words. i humbly apologize for said grievance, and would like to preemptively apologize for the fact that this literary misdemeanor is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

Z - the Patriot act,while not perfect,granted, was and is needed to protect America,that's with a capital A,thank you,and was developed as a result of radical Islamic terrorists,who are at this very moment plotting ways to kill innocent civilians all over the world who do not allow them to practice their brand of terrorism(peacful religion)sorry.

‘‘They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety," observed Benjamin Franklin, "deserve neither liberty nor safety." Regardless of arguments that can be made regarding the effectiveness, validity and/or genuine need for the Patriot Act.. and regardless of the undeniable truth that it is a complete violation of our constitution, (which any American would surely hold as our most fundamental law).. regardless of any of these arguments, Franklin's words still echo truth to this day.

Z - Secondly, Al Gore,Democrat, is the perpetrator of the "Lock Box".

i used the term as a literary convention, which had nothing to do with gore, or with social security.

Z - Thirdly,did Orwell envision a Republican or Democrat world when he dreampt up Big Brother?

have you read the book, or is this a real question? My comparison of bush to big brother had much more to do with the trend of his administration towards WWII like totalitarianism, or classical fascism, than with democrats or republicans..

Z - For the record,under Democrats,or worse yet,Liberals(Social Marxists)you would sooner turn into Orwell's vision

first off, the association of "liberals" with "social marxism" is a huge sweeping generalization that leaves out 99% of the self proclaimed liberals in the world, especially considering the exceedingly wide variations on the term liberalism with regard to political theory. therefore i'm not even going to touch that issue.

secondly, orwell's vision had less to do with socialism (as you seem to imply), or even with conservatism, than it had to do with the total control of a populous by a state, by placing the value of collectivism above the value of individualism. therefore, i compared the patriot act to to orwell's vision as a result of its provisions which strip american citizens of their constitutional rights on the grounds that it is for the security of the state. this places the security of the state above the importance of the individual. the left and right of the political spectrum are irrelevant here, as the action is clearly indicative of a collectivist approach, which paves the road towards orwell's vision.

Z - universal health care,sounds great doesn't,but just ask anyone who has it,long waiting lines,forget second opinions,forget competitive marketing,where companies would have to compete for your business,thereby lowering rates on prescription drugs,forget the doctor of your choice,especially when it comes to specialists.

though i don't know where this came from.. here goes: since when do we have lower rates on prescription drugs? Since when do I, if i'm poor, have the doctor of my choice? Our system as it exists clearly isn't that much better. besides, implementing a universal health care system in no way necessitates the implementation of a crappy plan.

Z - Republicans,or better yet,Conservatives,would allow and also encourage you to make the most of your life,earn as much as you can or want,shop around for your health care needs and start a small business and be your own boss...

last i checked, the Democratic Party was 100% capitalist.. or am i mistaken? is john kerry a socialist? a marxist? a collectivist? has he just not told anyone yet? wow.. i admit, that would make for an interesting few years.

Z - ...and not be ruled by a UNION,not that Unions are bad,they definitely helped create a middle class and helped get working conditions improved,but they have been swallowed up by their own self interests.

uh.. yes. unions are good. ever read any labor history? if it wasn't for the labor movement, i'd be willing to bet that no matter what job you have [ insert assumption here], there is no doubt that your job would be significantly crappier. sure, not all unions were always good. many only served the interest of your professed middle-class, skilled worker.. others only worked for specific, upper-labor aims. but to be swallowed up by their own self interests? by "their" you must mean the workers, right? since that is who makes up a union? So.. what's wrong with the workers doing only what is in their best interests?

i do agree though, albeit most likely for vastly different reasons, that not all unions are positive entities at all times.

Z - You sound young,Churchill once said,anybody in their twenties would be a fool not to be a Liberal,and that anybody over 40 would be a fool not to be Conservative!!I might not have that verbatim,but I THINK i'm pretty close.

congratulations, you've successfully identified that I am indeed left-leaning, as well as quote and affirm a vast, sweeping, ageist generalization about political demographics. I would put forth that anyone (under or over either 20 or 40) would be a fool to adhere to a political doctrine simply because of a birthday, or because of of prescribed notions about age, without solving the clear and present problem of their own ignorance. Furthermore, Churchill's saying merely reflects his adherence to a Realist political philosophy which manifested itself in the opinion that the young were idealistic and ought to be, whereas once an individual reached "maturity" they would come to see the error of the idealistic ways. This says nothing more profound than that he was a realist, which isn't surprising considering his role in the war, and his total immersion in power politics.
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[evan]

NM -

i'm totaly with ya there..

culture of fear indeed...

[subvert the dominant paradigm!]

self-analysis: politically liberal; economically half-liberal/half-feminist

:unsure: e :think: