Republicans Suck

[NeverMind]

So many reasons!
Just feel free to name as many as you can.
Channel your anger!

[zygoat]

one with no mind,
what are your reasons,idiot??!!!

[pnklphnts]

I believe that was the point of this post, hence "post your reasons".

There are many reasons:
Tax cuts for the rich
Unprovoked millitary action
Ashcroft
Invasion of privacy
No care for the poorer class
Power abuses
the list goes on and on

[pnklphnts]

zygoat i jsut read ur post under the iraq thread,
Bush = the most national debt ever
Bush = highest unemployment in 25 years
Bush = underfunding education by 40% (better schools/teachers?)
Bush = Invade privacy
Bush = Bigot
Bush = the worst president we've ever had, I agree with reagan more then i agree with this buttwipe, and thats sayign ALOT

[NeverMind]

what about old Rummy? That man lied to the NATION!
He lied to the 250 million people of the world's most powerful nation.
I've never lied to even like 30 people at the same time.

Oh man, Bush turned the BIGGEST SURPLUS IN HISTORY into the DEEPEST BUDGET DEFICIT IN HISTORY!
We were rolling in the benjies back under Clinton. And EVRYONE was doing well. Nowadays, the rich are getting richer (my family included) and the poor are getting poorer. His phony war has totally ****ed this nation's economy and the only reason he might get elected is because ALL the rich people vote cuz they are greedy bastards and know they'll get even RICHER under another 4 years of Bush while the poor are forced to eat their own feces. And lets think about what could happen in another 4 years. He won't be worrying about getting re-elected (2 terms) so he'll be free to push his fascist agenda freely.

Although i've been bashing republicans all this time. I'm gonna say Sen. John McCain is a pretty cool guy. But he doesn't like Bush. So that probly explains a lot about my thoughts on him.

[pnklphnts]

bush lied, he siad they had WWMDs

[dustwitch]

Not all Republicans suck. You Dems don't like them because they run circles around you. Heh heh. I find that they are not as hypocritical as the liberals. Lying , cheating and avarice are the tools of both parties. Let's not fool ourselves. DO you honestly think those Washington big wig Dems like Kennedy and Gebhart give a damn about the poor. PAHLEEEEEESE .

[NeverMind]

To be perfectly honest, i'm not saying all republicans are bad or all democrats are good. But there are certain "republican views" and "democratic views" and the democratic views are more sympathetic to the poor while the republican views seem more sympathetic to big business. I don't like Ted Kennedy. I do like John McCain. I wish McCain would have won the Republican nomination in 2000. I think it would have been a better election overall and I think Gore or McCain would have both made a better president than Mr. Bush. i don't know so much about Kerry. But I know what Bush believes in and I disagree with it. And I don't like what his administration has done with the USA.

[NeverMind]

Wow, I thought this site was much more liberal. I didn't know there were so many conservatives here. I thought with all the Buddhism and Philosophy, most Republicans would run away to their money. I guess I really misjudged the atmosphere here.

[Mental Gremlin]

i hate to burst your bubble but they ALL suck
republicans suck the rich
democrats suck the rich
independents suck the rich
all for that sweet sweet dollar
we should do away with the whole corrupt system
give anarchy a chance.

[sahyo]

give anarchy a chance.


:thumbsup:

[dustwitch]

I very much disagree with your view that republicans don't care about the poor. Many Republicans give and volunteer their time and money to help those less fortunate, personally and through various organizations including church and corporate charities. I was poor and all the liberals wanted to do was to get me to be totally dependent on taxpayer funded welfare programs. I was humiliated and discouraged from bettering myself . They were the ones perpetuating an underclass who craved handouts and would vote for them while the liberals point the finger at the republicans as the mean bastards who want to take away the handouts. I learned first hand.
I also must point out that there are many republican buddists, athiests, gays, poets, artists, musicians etc . and you did make the blanket staement " Replublicans Suck " . You are technically incorrect in your statement. :nono:

Nevermind, you did not misjudge the atmosphere here, you misjudged republicans .

[pnklphnts]

Yes the whole system sucks balls, but anarchy isnt better. I mean don't get me wrong, it would be GENUIS if we didnt have this damn thing called human nature. Same with communism. However we do and an anarchy would turn into a mass slaughter for power to set up a dictatorship.

There are horrible people on all political spectrums, but republican ideals in general are selffish. Now i know many kind republicans that honestly think they are doing the right thing, and I know many who are not open to any opinoin (slayer) or facts and close their blinds from the world. Of course there are democrats like that, and liberals, but i find much more repuiblicans like this.

I don't label myself, my ideals are mainly liberal, but i agree with repubies on some things (few but some).

[sahyo]

anarchy would turn into a mass slaughter for power to set up a dictatorship.

not if people weren't policed and could respond-act when people try violence

[pnklphnts]

But then you have a resistance group fighting the taking over group, a war. Then next time it happened, another war. And eventully when someone won, a new facist goverment. The dark ages where mainly anarchy and a horrible time. I wish anarchy would work...

[dustwitch]

Would you kindly tell me what it is you do agree with republicans
about , pnk ?

[pnklphnts]

Sure, but like i said there are alot of reasons and I already provided a few:

Tax cuts for the rich
Unprovoked millitary action
Ashcroft
Invasion of privacy
No care for the poorer class
Power abuses
the list goes on and on

I would have to say the main issues i disagree on would be abortions, gay marriage, privacy, tax cuts for the rich, national health care, war tactics, forein policy, underfunding of education, fund distrabution in general, and i have a feeling im forgeting a few but thats all i can think of for now.

[pnklphnts]

i thought of one more biggie: Free trade

[dustwitch]

What would work ,pnk ?

[pnklphnts]

thanks for the response,
Could you be a lil more clear, as in what do you mean. I dont really get it, do you mena what type of goverment would work? For that I have no answer, because i have no clue. Democracy could work if apathy wasnt so apperent in our lives

[NeverMind]

communism (the Marx way) would be great except many lazy people would take advantage of it.
anarchism would be great except that people would take advantage of it. I think if all condidates for all races for elected positions had a set advertising budget, and a set amount of TV time, etc. Our country would be run much better and more "for the people by the people" instead of "for the campaign contributors, by rich old white people"
MONEY ruins everything. Money ruined good rock and roll (MTV sucks!) . Money ruins good government.

[dustwitch]

You are so right. Radio is right there on the trash heap too.

[sahyo]

But then you have a resistance group fighting the taking over group, a war. Then next time it happened, another war. And eventully when someone won, a new facist goverment. The dark ages where mainly anarchy and a horrible time. I wish anarchy would work...

what resistant group? :)

[sahyo]

so most people this thread want governing?

[NeverMind]

NO. Anarchy would be the best possible thing. People would be rewarded for how hard they work directly. The problem is that many people would turn to crime and thus completely take advantage of the system in the WRONG way.

[sahyo]

:)

could impoverishing, or seeming feeling impoverished, remain happening without governments trying exploiting, people trying to possess, and laws trying to reinforce the desire to possess/exploit?

could seeming need for called crime happen if people weren't restricted by law from responding?

could seeming crime remain as long as people imagining 'mine' tried possessing and laws supported it?....how could desiring to possess happen if sharing was happening?....would imagining mine trying possessing be encouraged if most people weren't?

referring rape, if wasn't for fear trying using guilt for trying to suppress called energy called sex, and laws trying restricting, would happen imagining distorting and acting out the distorting?....if did happen, would it also not be encouraged if most people weren't imagining/distorting?

is not imagined crime but concern for survival, and-or imagined impoverishment, and suppressed sex/energy, expressed re-acting?

[pnklphnts]

Well this is a little of subject but it has a paragraph about anarchy in here. This is Jell Biafra's (lead singer Dead Kenndeys) acceptance speech for the Green Party nomination in New York, read his ideas hes a genuis:
Jello Biafra's Statement for Synthesis/Regeneration magazine:

I am surprised and honored to be drafted as a nominee. I have been an artist/activist since 1978. I was the leader and creative force of pioneering punk band Dead Kennedys. I have owned and operated a small business, Alternative Tentacles Records. We are now celebrating our Twentieth Anniversary. I ran for Mayor of San Francisco in 1979, placing fourth out of ten candidates. I was the main target in the first criminal trial over a record album in American history. The jury deadlocked and the charges were dismissed. This vaulted me into the national media and lecture circuit as a spokesman on civil liberties. I have locked horns with Tipper Gore, Pat Buchanan, Oprah Winfrey, and many Religious Right activists on this issue. Besides music, I have released five spoken word CD sets that boil down and promote many ideas dear to Greens: human rights, freedom of speech, the Gulf War, the Drug War/Prison-Industrial Complex, globalization and the WTO, and a newer emphasis on how to fight back. I have been registered Green for many years, and support the Green Key Values and Platform. But how do we implement and sell (Yes, sell. This is Disney-addled America) our key values and programs to the general public?

A few ideas:

Enact a maximum wage Great idea. When I got it aired on Politically Incorrect I was roundly booed by audience and guests alike. The host told the viewers I was crazy before he even said my name. People assume they are the ones who will be hurt when the big bad government hits the middle class with another evil tax. So let's be generous: No taxes up to $100,000; after that it's payback time. And emphasize the payback--free health care, free education (including amnesty on student loans), free transportation (including air travel), and more. Revenue will be used for the many costly programs in the Green platform and long over-due public works projects; also vastly increased subsidies for the arts, especially community radio and television; subsidies for independent organic farms, hemp and kanaf farms (to end dependence on paper from forests), and solar and windmill farms to decrease our fossil fuel gluttony. Urban blight can be further eradicated by legalizing and subsidizing squatters who fix up long-vacant buildings. This has worked well in Europe when given a chance; think of what it could do for places like St. Louis or Richmond, VA. Speed up conversion to electric buses, trucks, a national high-speed rail system; and , of course, electric cars. We don't need a flat tax, but a flattening tax, to truly level the playing field. After all, what causes more damage to the planet, drug addiction or wealth addiction? Hopefully the maximum wage will raise enough money to fill the cups of everyone who makes less than $100,000 so we'll all be even. And can we please find a clearer, sexier term than "single-payer health care" next time it’s a ballot initiative? We must close all hemorrhaging tax loopholes that benefit giant corporations, including organized religion. Taxpayers should also be given a multiple choice of the ten or fifteen major areas of government to decide what percentage of their tax money goes where. My guess is that education and the environment will go straight up, and the arms race and prison expansion will go straight down.

Abolish the Military And the CIA, NSA, DIA, DEA, ATF, hopefully the FBI, and disband all SWAT teams. Our biggest national security threat is the environmental destruction of our planet and the arms race with ourselves. So let’s use the defense budget, personnel, and know-how for a new mission: clean up toxic waste, rebuild cities and infrastructure, dismantle all nuclear arms and satellites, and implement worldwide the very environmental and labor practices Third World WTO delegates complained are too costly.

Withdraw from NAFTA and the World Trade Organization. Wealth addicts have gotten carried away; now it's time for rehab. Earlier in our history there were strict laws mandating public hearings and revocations of charters of corporations for misconduct, and restricting board of directorships to one corporation per person. Let's bring these laws back. Irradiated and GM (Genetically Mutilated) frankenfood and other products must be labeled. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 should be repealed immediately. And workers should be allowed to elect their bosses.

End the war on drugs Decriminalize marijuana and illegal narcotics such as heroin, cocaine, and crack. Hard-core addiction is an illness, not a crime. Put users on prescription, and crime will drop dramatically when they don't have to rob and kill people to pay the Mob's high drug prices. Any president or governor can stop the prison-building boom right now by commuting sentences for minor, non-violent drug offenders to time served. Why not pressure them to do it? The same goes for the death penalty. I have chosen Mumia Abu-Jamal, a noted author, journalist, and activist currently on Death Row in Pennsylvania on questionable charges, as my vice presidential running mate to show why we should join the rest of the civilized world and halt executions forever.

I am an anarchist in my personal life. I try to live my life in a way that I don't need cops or baby-sitters to keep me from infringing on others. But I don't feel we have evolved far enough as a species to make anarchy work in society itself. We still need government to transfer the wealth from those who have too much to those who have too little, to make sure important projects get done, and keep territorial humans from screwing over and killing each other.

So guess what? I'm Tough On Crime®, especially when the punishment fits the crime: Sentence slum lords to live in their own buildings. Sentence polluters to inhale and swim in the mess they've made until they clean it up. Sentence Savings and Loan sharks and white collar gangstas from our recent bank deregulation to pay back all the money they steal, just like if they held up a 7-11. Sentence arms dealers and manufacturers to pay for rebuilding all the places destroyed by the by the wars they help start.

End Police Brutality Make police officers stand for election every four years, voted on by the districts they patrol.

Lower the Voting Age to Five See youth apathy magically turn around when they know they have a real stake in their future; and get to vote for their school boards, and why not their teachers?

Education Reform Including a mandatory class on parenting and offer drug and sex education using actual drugs and sex in class. Showing how it's done with an emphasis on sensitivity could do wonders for combating sexism and date rape. Joycelyn Elders is right: teaching masturbation is far more realistic than expecting today's libidinous teens to bury their heads in abstinence. Meanwhile, nothing gets bigger laughs at parties than our rigid Drug Czar's TV ads. To put it mildly: they don't work. Students should be able to experiment with drugs in a supervised and controlled setting to learn their limits, not sent blindly off on their own into the risks of hard core addiction.

Election Reform State and national legislative elections should be switched to a parliamentary system with proportional representation. Campaign time should be limited to six weeks. Anyone campaigning or soliciting bribes, excuse me, contributions, beforehand will be automatically disqualified. Ballots in all elections should include the option of voting None of the Above. If NOTA gets over 50% of the vote, a new election must be held with all new candidates.

Other Proposals: Limit junk mail to one 3 x 5 card per mailing. Ban drug and lie-detector tests of employees and students, and forbid the drugging of schoolchildren against their will. Give out giant waterproof Yuppie Parasite decals containing a skull and crossed cell-phones to be plastered by concerned citizens on all sport utility vehicles until they are eradicated from urban and suburban areas. Convert giant sports stadiums into homeless shelters until the maximum wage imposed on today's sports stars funds the necessary low-income housing. Fight gentrification by allowing those under siege to spray whipped cream on those who flaunt their upwardly mobile invader status until the interlopers leave town.

I apologize to those who feel I should wage a more aggressive campaign. I did not expect to be nominated, and I am locked in my own battle against globalization that has been a huge strain on my time, emotions, and resources. Former members of my old band are suing me with the expressed intent of wiping out 22 years of work because I wouldn't allow them to put one of our best known songs in a Levi's Dockers TV commercial. Trial begins April 17. Plus, I voted for Ralph Nader last time, and would gladly vote for him again. Should I have let my name be on the ballot at all? Ever since I ran for mayor, I have proven to be an effective media magnet and lightening rod for protest votes reaching far beyond the underground popularity of my work. On the other hand, should a flamboyant artist and prankster be the main banner-carrier at this point? Or would more progress be made by only running "serious" candidates? Events in Seattle and around the globe show there are far more people on our side of the fence than we give credit for. What does it say about our country when people are so desperate for an alternative to our one-party state masquerading as a two-party state that they'll even elect a professional wrestler governor? Steelworkers and eco-activists are marching together. People are questioning whether it is more important to live in a "marketplace" than a community. They question whether "competitiveness" is more important than compassion and quality of life. More and more young people see corporations as an authority figure to rebel against, instead of buying into every manufactured pop trend. The spread of Students Against Sweatshops on college campuses is important--not just because the battle is right, but because it is winnable. A step by step approach makes greater change seem less hopeless. In my own small way I try to inspire people to at least start thinking about what they might do and where they would fit in if we actually found ourselves in charge. For all their faults, at least the front line opposition in places like the Czech Republic and South Africa had some idea of how they would actually run things if and when they had the chance. We're not there yet. Splitting into two competing Green Parties is just plain childish.

Don't hate the media, become the media Film-maker Michael Moore is right: we must spend less time arguing and agreeing with each other, and more time reaching out to people who may not appear to agree with us, but often share the same underlying concerns. These issues aren't left versus right, they are the top against the bottom. No one who is down-sized out of a job should be allowed to fall for Pat Buchanan. Putting food on the table is the number one wedge issue of growing concern for everyone. We need to show the step by step ways each individual can help free themselves from Corporate Feudalism. Condensing and translating the Green Party Platform from lawyer-ese into English, Español, etc. would be a big help here. We must emphasize the importance of voting in local elections, where a smaller group of concerned citizens can make the most difference. Some people not yet weaned from today's Democratic Party will try to intimidate us, calling us spoilers who siphon away votes, and tip close races to Republicans. I say, "Great!" Let's do it some more. The real spoilers are operatives like Clinton, Gore, Feinstein, and the Democratic Leadership Council, rendering their party indistinguishable from the party of Bu$h, Inc., and thus making the Greens, New Party, and others necessary in the first place. As it stands now, we are being farmed. Imagine what we can do if we gain enough seats in legislatures to influence the balance of power and decision making. Imagine what we can do if we get the necessary 5% of the vote in this presidential election to gain federal matching funds for 2004. This is all more than possible, even under current election laws.

Join the Green Wedge!

[NeverMind]

I would rather vote for a moderate democrat than a Green Party candidate even though I agree with more of the green policies. I have one main reason: GREEN PARTY CANDIDATES NEVER WIN! AND NEVER WILL UNTIL BOTH MAIN PARTIES EXPLODE!
It's simple really. :ph34r:

[dustwitch]

:hahaha: GO NADER ! :lol:

[sahyo]

.......:thumbsup:

.............:dancing:

thx posting wondrous happening
Jell Biafra using imaginating, pnklphnts

....:D

[sahyo]

I would rather vote for a moderate democrat than a Green Party candidate even though I agree with more of the green policies. I have one main reason: GREEN PARTY CANDIDATES NEVER WIN! AND NEVER WILL UNTIL BOTH MAIN PARTIES EXPLODE!
It's simple really. :ph34r:

EXPLODE?

[pnklphnts]

Oi, probley not for a while. However if they 5% of the vote they get campain funding, and if mroe and more of us vote for them tehn in 20 years or so we could acctually have a green party president. Repubies are worse then Democrats, but i can live with 20 years of a repubie if we turn the tide and have Green party president, itd be so awsome
sorry my repubie friend wants a word,
On the other hand, who the f*ck is going to vote for a tree-hugger? -parker

[NeverMind]

oh Parker, ever the douchebag. (Parker is probably one of the smartest people alive)
I'd rather live 20 years with a democrat and not have a green president. Their uber liberal policies would probably not float in congress and would die. They would have little power even being presiden.t

[zygoat]

Pnk,
Jell Biafra's a moron and needs to stick to making really bad music!!

[zygoat]

Pnk,
Bush=fighting terrorism,unlike clinton
Bush= LOWEST unemployment 5.6%,LOWER than clinton 9.5%
Bush=HIGHEST homeownership EVER
Bush=much needed Patriot Act
Bush=hundreds of thousands of people liberated from cruel dictators
Bush=tax cuts that helped speed up the recovery of the recession that clinton led us into(clinton only got lucky with the dot.com explosion)
Bush=strong military(clinton gutted the hell out of it and so will Kerry)

[NeverMind]

At least Kerry served unlike Bush. While Kerry was fighting in Asia Bush was getting drunk in the National Guard. Where's the honor in that? I don't care if he was IN the National Guard or not. He DID NOT go over to 'Nam and he is a pussy for that.

Clinton pimped hoes. Stop the hate.
Terrorism cannot be fought. You cannot fight a verb.
Patriot Act sucks!

[NeverMind]

Everyone was rich under Clinton. I know the dot com thing was not caused by him but you have to admit, the economy was good and the recession didn't occur until 9-11. Neither was caused by the administration at the time. The Tax Cuts Bush has handed have only been enjoyed by the rich.

[sonrisa]

Bush=fighting terrorism,unlike clinton

--the Clinton administration held weekly strategy sessions on terrorism, & was pretty much on top of al-qaeda. The bushits ignored all the warnings about al-qaeda, held only one terrorism briefing prior o 9/11, & even now, are more concerned with covering the Saudis butts (not to mention their own) & screwing (with) the Constitution in the name of "fighting terrorism". The one counter terrorism method that is really effective- having undercover marshalls fly on planes to nip hijackings & other terrorist acts in the bud, has been discontinued.

Bush= LOWEST unemployment 5.6%,LOWER than clinton 9.5%

--tell this to folx whose jobs have been outsourced. Also, when your unemployment benefits run out, you're no longer counted as unemployed, even if you are. The true unemployment figure is higher than 5.6% In some parts of the country it's closer to 50%. Which is another thing, that 5.6% (or whatever it is this week) is just a national average of folx receiving unemployment chex, nothing more

Bush=HIGHEST homeownership EVER

--huh? where? in Kennebunkport?


Bush=much needed Patriot Act

--how is gutting the Constitution "much needed"? I agree with Benjamin
Franklin, who remarked that anybody who would trade in their essential liberty for a little security deserves neither one


Bush=hundreds of thousands of people liberated from cruel dictators

--again, where?

Bush=tax cuts that helped speed up the recovery of the recession that clinton led us into(clinton only got lucky with the dot.com explosion)

:goodlaugh: you're joking, right? those cuts for the rich only prolonged the recession, & the folx that really could use a tax break didn't get one.

Bush=strong military(clinton gutted the hell out of it and so will Kerry)

--god let's hope so! If anything needs to be gutted, that's it right there. The $ that is currently being wasted on the Great Iraqi Oil Grab, needs to be spent on healthcare, education (including job training), fighting homelessness, put into some REAL homeland security ( as opposed to this duct tape crap) & a myriad of other, much more important things, not the least of which is developing alternative sources of fuel & energy so we don't have to go invading sovereign nations to loot their oil to begin with.

[zygoat]

sonrisa,
the Clinton administration held weekly strategy sessions on terrorism, & was pretty much on top of al-qaeda.
he was also getting bj's under the desk weekly.
tell this to folx whose jobs have been outsourced. not all jobs that are "Outsourced"are going overseas,some just go to different parts of the country.
The true unemployment figure is higher than 5.6% In some parts of the country it's closer to 50%there's so many ways I could go with that one,ROTFLMAO!!!Please post these stats,if you can!!!!
HIGHEST homeownership EVER

--huh? where? in Kennebunkport?
where does John Kerry live?,oh I meant which one of the 5 mansions does he live?
hundreds of thousands of people liberated from cruel dictators

--again, where?Afghanistan/Iraq????taxpayers in America???

those cuts for the rich only prolonged the recession, & the folx that really could use a tax break didn't get one. do you make more money than your employer??where do you think jobs come from??the job fairy??if you don't overtax wealthy people i.e. your employers and manufacturers,they are more likely to SPEND money :huh:

[a random hack]

the Clinton administration held weekly strategy sessions on terrorism, & was pretty much on top of al-qaeda.

he was also getting bj's under the desk weekly.
let's hope the two did not coincide <_<

those cuts for the rich only prolonged the recession, & the folx that really could use a tax break didn't get one.

do you make more money than your employer??where do you think jobs come from??the job fairy??if you don't overtax wealthy people i.e. your employers and manufacturers,they are more likely to SPEND money

yeah zygoat, and how you think rich people get that way, by spending money? :lol:

[DrewPollock]

thanks to zygoat for saying what needed to be said. If clinton wouldve NOT cut our military budget (hence the surplus), and fought terrorism after bin laden attacked the world trade center the first time, 9/11 wouldve never happened. Bush was handed an economy on the downfall, which was worsened by terrorist attacks (the ones which couldve been prevented if clinton had some balls), then he put into action a tax cut which has slowly helped to recover the economy. But after all the president doesnt control the economy, he can only do little things to move it in one way or another.

[zygoat]

A random hack,
the two DID coincide,duh!!! <_<

and yes, the rich,Spend when they aren't being burdened by taxes.and they are willing to hire more people,if they can make more by doing so without the tax burden,again,DUH!!! :huh:

[a random hack]

A random hack,
the two DID coincide,duh!!!

oh, thanks, i didn't follow that closely :)


and yes, the rich,Spend when they aren't being burdened by taxes.and they are willing to hire more people,if they can make more by doing so without the tax burden,again,DUH!!!

umm, why not cut out the middle men?

[mahrooq]

I think the only thing that can save us now is nuclear war or an alien invasion.

[NeverMind]

There is WAY too much money being spent on cold war weapons. We NEED to cut money from our nuclear arsenals. It's just sad how much money is being spent on nukes that we already have thousands of and our missile defense system that DOESNT WORK! Go to http://www.truemajority.com and watch the dude explain it in simple terms you republicans can understand.

[NeverMind]

sorry the actual link is http://ww11.e-tractions.com/truemajority/s...2Ba5ZpiFkv4x%3D (http://ww11.e-tractions.com/truemajority/servlet/Gamelet;jsessionid=1E7F219A0E77E4E7748E407FD173E3A 8?req=BjEzO6PaM3E3tzM6bjEFtXM6B3Ef%2BWC3Q%2FmabjF9 b9Z1ozMzGjEft2MzMjEEt3KaB3Ef%2Ba5ZpiFkv4x%3D)

[NeverMind]

also theres some more fun(ny) stuff about the budget, etc. at
http://www.truemajority.org/fun/

[sonrisa]

yo Britney! Finally figured out your true iD! :)


zygoat-- (Clinton) was also getting bj's under the desk weekly.

--what does that have to do with running the country, except maybe he was pretty mellow?



zygoat--Please post these (unemployment) stats,if you can!!!!

--I've seen them in hard copy, what sticks out in my mind is a color coded map showing the unemployment rates around the country. I'm wondering if it would be worth the time to get on a search engine & find the stats for somebody as tedious as you. Somebody else has already remarked on your lack of substantial contributions to these forums.
(I could ask you to back up your stupid jingos & slogans with some facts, but don't worry, I'm really not all that interested)


(previously) zygoat--hundreds of thousands of people liberated from cruel dictators

previously me--again, where?

zygoat--Afghanistan/Iraq????taxpayers in America???

--funny, we don't hear that much about Afghanistan these daze.... but last time I did hear, the Taleban were making a comeback. But Unocal's got their pipeline, so what the hey?
I don't think the Iraqi's consider themselves "liberated", otherwise why are they fighting tooth & nail to get their country back? Unless you consider "liberated" to be bombed out of house & home, tortured, molested, shot at, exposed to DU radiation, having no regular access potable water, ditto re:food & medicene, etc... I don't
as for the taxpayers I repeat:
those cuts for the rich only prolonged the recession, & the folx that really could use a tax break didn't get one.


zygoat--do you make more money than your employer??

--do you?


zygoat--where do you think jobs come from??the job fairy??

--I know where they go to: Mexico, Central America, Indoneisia, India, Pakistan, & so on & so on....

[NeverMind]

It showed footage in Farenheit 9/11 of a conference attended by Haliburton, Microsoft, etc. all about how much money could be made in Iraq. It was sickening. Why are people so greedy these days? Why are people so greedy? I would love to exploit the exploiters. I think we should have more of a Robin Hood style government. You know, where we tax the rich alot and give it to the poor. We'd all be happier. Especially the poor people. You rich bastards (wherever you are) don't need all that damn money. My parents are moderately wealthy and we give quite a bit of money to charity, the church, etc. Greedy-ass Republicans should do the same.
:hahaha: GREED WILL DESTROY YOUR SOUL!

[sonrisa]

just or the hell of it, I did do a search & came up with a site that breaks the unemployment rate into demographics, but it's still a national average. If interested, click here (http://www.njfac.org/jobnews.html) Please note one group is over 30%

this site lists unemployment by counties (http://www.congress.techpolitics.org/unempdec03bycd.php) A number of counties are in the double digits, in one of them I noticed almost a quarter of the residents are getting unemployment chex. How many more are still unemployed but off the roles?

NM, I thought those scenes were the most digusting in the movie, even more disgusting then the Iraqi in the blanket being molested, & that was pretty disgusting.

[NeverMind]

It was pretty sick seeing the dead american bodies burned beyond recognition being beaten and displayed out in the open.

But the capitalist greed was worse because they were dishonoring all that.

[zygoat]

sonrisa,
unemployment figures (http://stats.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm) here are the stats!

[zygoat]

sonrisa,
just looked at your "links",did you?
you are almost as bad as Michael Moore in trying to distort the truth,the first link states the OFFICIAL UNEMPLOYMENT @5.6%, and then you go on to say that some counties are in double digits,yet you don't have the BALLS to state that some counties are under 2%!!
BTW,are you mellow? <_<

[sahyo]

I am speaking form the perspective of the united states things are areal mess here.. and getting worse. You have to have 2 cars because a family has to have 2 jobs to make ends meet. It takes an hour to drive across el paso certain times a day.. if you take a bus across town and back it will take you over 8 hours on the bus.. and it is 105*F and 3% humidity in the summer and the busses break down and catch on fire all the time. our nearest food or drug store is 8 miles away, that would take about 6 hours round trip on the bus.. Our government is bankrupting us, less than 2% of the population possesses about 90% of the wealth. The last Tax Cuts were a give away to richest 4% and destroyed all funding for the government, My family got a tax cut return of $128, And we lost both our jobs, they were out-sourced to china, our property tax went up 40%.. our local purchising tax went up 12% we pay 8% on all money spent, about 40% income taxes.. the schools, which have lost funding due to the tax cut are now are only open 4 days a week. We pay $850 for the morgage. $160 for utilities a month, ..Phone $40..$70 a month car insurance, $150 month plus deductable for health insurance and $200 for pescriptions, cable $60 we live in the desert. plus the Mean Average income here in a community of 850,000 is $14,500 a year. and the State is going to create a state income tax. and gas tires maintence on 2 cars and the house., we both work.. in aughful jobs we hate and are treated like crap by our employers.. and neither of us are paid a liveable wage... and Bill Gates of Microsoft only pays the income tax that a person making $89,000 a year pays... we cant afford to go to a restaurant to eat or a movie.. we are behind in payments and in great debt of $50,000 because of health problems involving a neck surgery.. I am in great pain from a back injury i cant get medical care for .. i cant go to the doctor because it will get in my medical history and i will never be hired again,and have trouble getting work because i went to a doctor 15 years ago because of a back sprain at work do to bad conditions at work..walk with a limp my back is so bad. .. if i had children they would be in trouble. my wife and i decided not to have children and are both glad we didn't.

[sonrisa]

well, duhhh zygoat. Of course some counties will be less than the average. Some are less, some are more & you divide them by the total number to get an average. Were you sick that day your math teacher was teaching that?
My point is it's a meaningless number, esp since unemployment figures do not take into account the total number of unemployed, just the ones getting chex.
And your point is......

go peddle your stupid numbers to somebody who's trying to pay the rent & put food on the table with no job (unable to find one) & no unemployment check (ran out)

if you play the numbers they just might hit... but don't hold your breath

[sonrisa]

where did you get that quote Asheera?
Is it on this site somewhere?

[pnklphnts]

ur a funny guy zygoat and i dont think u know it

Bush=fighting terrorism,unlike clinton

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....
the only reason bush APEARS to be fighting terrorisim more is because its all he talks about. When clinton left office he told george that the bin ladens were something big to consider, bush blew it off. he began "fighting" terrorism after 9/11, dont you think clinton would have done the same thing. by same thing i mean attempt to end terrorism not build an enviorment where terrorists are made daily. u think invading a country, a country that did not support terrorism, is gonna not make terrorists? they hate us so they attack us, we make more of them hate us by invading them, get it?

Bush=HIGHEST homeownership EVER

maybe thats due to the fact there are more people in the us then ever before.

Bush=much needed Patriot Act

f*ck civil liberties we got a patriot act

Bush=hundreds of thousands of people liberated from cruel dictators

according to cnn 40% of them prefer sadam to the goverment now set up. he seems cruel to us but hes what his people liked.

Bush=tax cuts that helped speed up the recovery of the recession that clinton led us into(clinton only got lucky with the dot.com explosion)

another knee slaper. yea why dont we give the ones makin billions a couple million off their tax bill, that'll speed it right up.

Bush=strong military(clinton gutted the hell out of it and so will Kerry)

why oh why do we need a millitary? we do we need an organized killing group?
defence: no, we have almost all of the world as our allies if its bad they can defend us, also if we are taken over through civil disobedence we can retake our goverment, so many less will die that way. and if were scared of terrorists no army would work so much better becuase they attack us cause we are an empire. we are the last superpower, the last ones able to take over other countries, so no army of us.

[NeverMind]

And Bush is increasing spending on unnecessary cold war weapons. Do you realize that we spend $40 billion on defense per year? The two closest spenders to us are Russia (7 billion) and China (5 billion) and they're both our allies. The ENTIRE "axis of evil" as a whole only spends $750 million. Most of the spending is for retarded stuff anyway. Like nukes. We have so many nukes we can blow up the entire world many times over! That's not necessary. How can anybody disagree with that? I don't even want us to have enough nukes to be able to blow up the world once. That's crazy.

[sahyo]

not on this site, sonrisa :)

[sahyo]

pnklphnts/nevermind :D

[zygoat]

pnk,
did you realize that your a moron?
When clinton left office he told george that the bin ladens were something big to consider, bush blew it off. he began "fighting" terrorism after 9/11, dont you think clinton would have done the same thing. by same thing i mean attempt to end terrorism clinton had at least 12 times to get bin laden and didn't,three times they had him sighted by unmanned drones,clinton refused!!
a country that did not support terrorismSaddam is a terrorist,is whole family were terrorists,AL QAEDA were in Iraq and still are!!
Bush=HIGHEST homeownership EVERyou have to make enough money to buy a home,fool!
according to cnn now who's trying to be funny? <_<

[zygoat]

sonrisa,
go peddle your stupid numbers to somebody who's trying to pay the rent & put food on the table with no job (unable to find one) & no unemployment check (ran out)
it sounds like that's what I'M DOING!! <_<

[sonrisa]

oh really? any takers?

[sonrisa]

Originally posted by pnklphnts@Jul 7 2004, 08:20 AM
ur a funny guy zygoat and i dont think u know it

I wouldn't say she's all that funny, Pnklphnts, but she is a joke! :D

"zygoat" pretty much sums up her current devloepmental stage, dontcha think?

I'm trying to figure out if her real name's Britney, Paris, or Nicole, what do you think?

[slayer]

he [Saddam] seems cruel to us but hes what his people liked.

Here's relativist stupidity at its finest. Saddam only murdered political dissenters, but Iraqis liked this. Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people, but Iraqis liked this. Saddam impoverished a country while building mansions, but Iraqis liked this. Saddam oppressed a nation, but Iraqis liked this. Saddam tyrannized a country, but Iraqis liked this.

Only a truly moronic individual would let his relativism so saturate his puerile mind that he would claim that Saddam's cruelness was something the Iraqis liked,...because to them it wasn't cruelness at all but something pleasing.

You are the dumbest kid in world history, pink panties, your parents have failed miserably.

Uhm, Iraqis don't like being oppressed, beaten, robbed, tortured, or mutilated, you dumb f*ck*ng child!

slayer

[todd]

Here's relativist stupidity at its finest. Saddam only murdered political dissenters, but Iraqis liked this. Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people, but Iraqis liked this. Saddam impoverished a country while building mansions, but Iraqis liked this. Saddam oppressed a nation, but Iraqis liked this. Saddam tyrannized a country, but Iraqis liked this.

American government tested nuclear weapons on his own people, but Americans liked this. American people liked the Red Scare of the 1950's. American people get their daily ratio of propaganda and they like it.

[sahyo]

You are the dumbest kid in world history



seems slayer dumbest kid in world history?



your parents have failed miserably.



seems parents have failed slayer?



you dumb f*ck*ng child!



seems slayer dumb f*ck*ng child?

[dustwitch]

Slayer, I think the Iraqis favorite thing that they liked was being thrown into the woodchipper. The second most popular was being a young bride and to be kidnapped by Uday and raped, beaten, and sodomized for hours and hours, sometimes days, before being thrown into the street like garbage to die or murdered by various twisted, demented methods . Another wonderful pastime was watching your young children shot outright where they stood or viciously tortured to death. Yes , those in power there could grab any living being off the street or from their homes and do whatever they pleased to them with impunity. Ah, but those were the good old days.
These people who compare our government to really, truly evil dictatorships are intellectually corrupt , emotionally stunted , naive brats lacking worldly expeience and moral judgment.
Slayer can you believe that there are actually people that do not understand and treasure freedom ? Or the raw courage and sacrifice it took to appropriate freedom for all in this nation? What the hell are they teaching in schools instead of history ? Oh, yeah, masterbation and recycling.
Asheera, you have got to be the poorest poster I have ever encountered in a forum. What are you doing, typing with one hand tweezing your moustache with the other. Todd, your not even worth a comment. Sonrisa, another copy and paster with very immature postings, nothing more than shallow , schoolgirl foolishness. Pinkpantys picture says it all, somebody better get him a bib. He is the most intellectually dishonest of them all. I have no problem with Nevermind as he is at least, thoughtful .
Republicans do not suck, stepford- liberals do.

[sahyo]

:goodlaugh:

[slayer]

Dustwitch,

I agree with your assessment of things. I also think Nevermind is the most reasonable of the group, though that isn't saying much.

Sonrisa and Asheera are also in the habit of posting just so the last post which they don't like is no longer the last post. Last posts attract more attention, so they fight this by posting smiley faces or "editing" an old post of theirs.

Did you see how they just showed on NBC that the Bin Laden family left the US seven days after the air restrictions were lifted, and not during the restrictions, as Michael Moore so dishonestly reported? By the way, I saw that movie, what amateurish sophistry. I couldn't help but laugh during much of it, because the thought that people were persuaded by such tom foolery was ridiculous. The worst part was seeing a friend of mine fall for some of the rhetorical tricks. I must reassess our friendship.

I suggest you ignore Asheera, she's incomptent in every regard. The same with Pink Panties. Somebody told him he was smart and the worst possible thing happened -- he believed it. He's Vicente waiting to happen. Vicente is the dumbest informed person I've ever seen online. His intentions are good, but he's so incapable of good reasoning that he is an American menace. Sonrisa is a joke. She contributes nothing of worth. Worse yet, her reading comprehension ends after Thing One and Thing Two pop out the box.

Todd's response to try to save Pink Panties from my attack was precious. I agree, no one needs to dissect that stillborn baby of an argument.

I long ago grew tired of this site because there's a dearth of rational debate, just these liberal nimrods hee-hawing whenever one attempts to rebut someone who disagrees with their feelings (a.k.a., their opinions). I still enjoy berating them every now and then though, mostly because they're intellectually powerless against my attacks, and because the lies they tell should be exposed. So I'll probably infrequently keep up with the goings-on here, but I'll never post regularly again. These idiot regulars defeat the whole purpose for this site. It's now a liberal orgy, and the one who says the most the grotesque things is rewarded by his depraved, illogical peers.

They always think I'm joking when I say this, but it sickens me to know they exist. It sickens me to know they have the right to vote. So this is why my interactions with them are the equivalent of stomping on a roach.

But I like to walk around barefoot, so I try to avoid them mostly.

appreciate yours and Zygoat's posts,

slayer

PS. I have encountered some people here who have been worth discussing things with, but I haven't encountered them in a long while. Even so, these few are too few.

[dustwitch]

* laughing * Yep.

[sahyo]

Sonrisa and Asheera are also in the habit of posting just so the last post which they don't like is no longer the last post.

really?...r sure?

[rich]

Originally posted by slayer@Jul 10 2004, 12:27 PM
Dustwitch,

I agree with your assessment of things. I also think Nevermind is the most reasonable of the group, though that isn't saying much.

Sonrisa and Asheera are also in the habit of posting just so the last post which they don't like is no longer the last post. Last posts attract more attention, so they fight this by posting smiley faces or "editing" an old post of theirs.

Did you see how they just showed on NBC that the Bin Laden family left the US seven days after the air restrictions were lifted, and not during the restrictions, as Michael Moore so dishonestly reported? By the way, I saw that movie, what amateurish sophistry. I couldn't help but laugh during much of it, because the thought that people were persuaded by such tom foolery was ridiculous. The worst part was seeing a friend of mine fall for some of the rhetorical tricks. I must reassess our friendship.

I suggest you ignore Asheera, she's incomptent in every regard. The same with Pink Panties. Somebody told him he was smart and the worst possible thing happened -- he believed it. He's Vicente waiting to happen. Vicente is the dumbest informed person I've ever seen online. His intentions are good, but he's so incapable of good reasoning that he is an American menace. Sonrisa is a joke. She contributes nothing of worth. Worse yet, her reading comprehension ends after Thing One and Thing Two pop out the box.

Todd's response to try to save Pink Panties from my attack was precious. I agree, no one needs to dissect that stillborn baby of an argument.

I long ago grew tired of this site because there's a dearth of rational debate, just these liberal nimrods hee-hawing whenever one attempts to rebut someone who disagrees with their feelings (a.k.a., their opinions). I still enjoy berating them every now and then though, mostly because they're intellectually powerless against my attacks, and because the lies they tell should be exposed. So I'll probably infrequently keep up with the goings-on here, but I'll never post regularly again. These idiot regulars defeat the whole purpose for this site. It's now a liberal orgy, and the one who says the most the grotesque things is rewarded by his depraved, illogical peers.

They always think I'm joking when I say this, but it sickens me to know they exist. It sickens me to know they have the right to vote. So this is why my interactions with them are the equivalent of stomping on a roach.

But I like to walk around barefoot, so I try to avoid them mostly.

appreciate yours and Zygoat's posts,

slayer

PS. I have encountered some people here who have been worth discussing things with, but I haven't encountered them in a long while. Even so, these few are too few.
slayer?:twoguns:
Before you knock others :argue: , why not perfect yourself? Perhaps a little self criticism is in order. Why not think, :think: before you speak? Whhy not try to earn repect :idea: , so people may learn to try to help :help: you?

[fu*]

Another gutless post from dustwitch.

A more honest approach might be....

---Oh Mighty Slayer, I am too afraid to post on my own, as I really have nothing to contribute except "grinding (my) teeth and posting far flung, absurd, emotionally driven blatherings."
So if you don't mind, I would like to piggy back on your reasoning skills, and pretend I am posting to you, while I say all kinds of nasty things about people I/you don't agree with, or don't understand, hoping you will be there to protect me if they try to poke at my fragile ego.---


>>>I think the Iraqis favorite thing that they liked was being thrown into the woodchipper. The second most popular was being a young bride and to be kidnapped by Uday and raped, beaten, and sodomized for hours and hours, sometimes days, before being thrown into the street like garbage to die or murdered by various twisted, demented methods . Another wonderful pastime was watching your young children shot outright where they stood or viciously tortured to death. Yes , those in power there could grab any living being off the street or from their homes and do whatever they pleased to them with impunity. <<<

You offer no evidence of this, so I guess you just know this for certain because of your "worldly experience".

Maybe Slayer missed that post of yours about just beginning to learn 'reason'. It might be more helpful to hold you to the same standards he does those who don't agree with him. I didn't get the impression that Slayer needed, or wanted some kind of confirmation echo.

>>>Slayer can you believe that there are actually people that do not understand and treasure freedom ?<<<

Well dustwich, please help me understand. What is your definition of "freedom"?

>>>Or the raw courage and sacrifice it took to appropriate freedom for all in this nation? What the hell are they teaching in schools instead of history ?<<<

Do you mean the "raw courage and sacrifice" it took to massacre the native people of this country in order to profit from the recourses here? Or does your great grasp of history just go back to WWII.

>>>Asheera, you have got to be the poorest poster I have ever encountered in a forum.<<<

If you would understand just one word of what Asheera is pointing at, you would be leaps and bounds beyond Slayer where 'awakening' is concerned. There is hope for you though, because reasoning and logic are not prerequisites for this type of understanding. In fact it it may be just the opposite.

I am a poor substitute for Slayer where teaching reason is concerned, but since he seems to be happy with your licking of his combat boots, I may try to help you now and then.


Your poorly qualified substitute teacher of reason, while the resident guru of logic seems to be uninteresting in furthering your resoning powers.

fu*

[slayer]

Richie,

There's no need to quote my entire post. Just write "slayer, in reference to your last post" or "Re: your last post, slayer."

Now to your opinions (not arguments).

Why would I wait to perfect myself before I knock others? That's seems a little silly. Don't you think others are in need of being knocked? Of cousre they are. Why is the prerequisite for pointing out someone's failings that one be perfected, in the relevant sense? I don't think any of us have perfected ourselves, dear Richie, so then your principle would suggest that no one knock Hitler or Saddam or anybody. What a horrible world that would be. No thanks, Richie, I'll just continue to knock when I feel the occasion merits knocking. Feel free to knock me again though, especially since you're so perfected.

Why don't I speak before I think? Hmmm, I don't know, tha'ts such a good question. I guess I don't know why I speak before I think. Oh my! I think I fell for your clever rhetorical device -- the loaded question! BOOM! There I go, all blown up by your TNT mind.

Okay, Richie Poo, I'll try to earn the respect of the people I loathe. Good advice. After I earn their respect, then they might be good enough to help me become more like them. You're a genius, Richie.

Now stop pestering me, you dumb old man. With age does not come wisdom, so stop trying to live a lie.

undaunted by nonsense,

slayer

[dustwitch]

fu,
1. What the hell are you talking about ? You seem to be the one who jumped in to protect someones ego. Yours ? The other members of the pack ?
*
2. I won't do your homework for you. There are plenty of sources about the atrocties perpetrated by the Saddam, his sons, and their regime. The trials should be enlightening too, if witnesses are not too terrified to testify. Try staying informed .
*
3. Slayer is not responsible for my posts.
*
4. If you need the definition for ' freedom ', I suggest you read The Declaration of Independance and The Bill of Rights .
*
5. As far as the native americans go, I say survival of the fittest applies. You do believe in evolution, don't you ? According to science, we are all African Americans , aren't we ? I mean if my " grasp of history " reaches back a significant time before WWII.
*
6. I never said slayer was my teacher. I said I could learn from him, and I am. This appears to disturb you. I alone am responsible for my education and enlightenment.
*
7. Are you attacking me for admitting I am a new student of reason and logic ? Do you think me wrong for being honest ?
*
8. I would be more inclined to lick the boots of slayer than to be like you, fu ,and abandon reason to become exactly what you profess to distain. A selfrighteous, name calling bully and a moral hypocrite.
*
9. How does it feel to become what you hate ?

[sahyo]

How does it feel to become what you hate ?

dw believes that imagined/reasoned/assumption true?

[dustwitch]

True dat, baby .

[todd]

Todd, your not even worth a comment dustwitch

:cry:

[dustwitch]

:)

[todd]

communism (the Marx way) would be great except many lazy people would take advantage of it.
Communism is boring, believe me, that is why people got lazy and they needed so much propaganda. And this is why they had such a success in sports - best way to step out of monotony.

Money ruined good rock and roll (MTV sucks!) Nevermind
Good point. But why most music from comunist country sucked? Those “artists” didn't have a penny.

could impoverishing, or seeming feeling impoverished, remain happening without governments trying exploiting, people trying to possess, and laws trying to reinforce the desire to possess/exploit? asheera wondering communism truelike

Bush=fighting terrorism,unlike clinton

This is political terrorism not some freaks holding hostages when robbing a bank.
Terrorism cannot be fought with. Terrorism requires dialog, understanding, concessions and compassion. More fight, means more killings, more fury and seek for revenge. If you kill the father today, his five sons will haunt you for the rest of their lifes, we give them a reason to live, a reason to fight. Destroying terrorism means anihilation of entire populations, the rule of fear.
Those terrorists do not care about what America has, but about what America wants to take away from them.
Does anybody think they would have attacked America, if we did not interfered with their rights and interests, in the Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq issues?

Clinton was the first to break the laws by interfering with internal politics of some countries around the world, just to show everyone who’s the leader after the Russian fall.
He started by establishing arbitrary borders and rights on Iraq, and conducting air strikes whenever he liked. He interfered in Yugoslavia to show the growing Europe that she cannot solve the historical issues in the Balcans and that there is no reason and justification for a “big” Europe. Did he solve anything there? By the contrary, he destroyed the American image in Europe by defending the muslims the whole Europe fought 1000 years to keep away. The muslims in Europe are the result of the Ottoman Empire conquest, and the cohabitance between muslims and Christians in that area is not an easy one, and it will never be. Maybe the new united Europe will make these contrasts to fade away.

People here do not realize how hot was that moment, with the Russians nuclear submarines in the Adriatic and the Serbian petition to the Russian parliament to become part of the Russian Federation, and on the other side with the American fighters in Italy. Clinton paid a lot to keep Russians away. Does it sound a bell to anyone about the WW2 when France requested unification with Great Britain?

From there on, the international law and order, and the status quo instated 50 years ago was destroyed. Unlawful attacks over Sudan, Iraq, Afghanistan followed. A new chief rules the world today. No one dares to speak up but a huge target rises for all those unhappy around the world.

Terrorism is the effect and not the cause.

The problem, the way I see it, is that America “has to rule the world” and is doing huge efforts in this direction.
For more than 50 years, the American dollar was the universal currency, a true value all over the world, but here it was just printed on request, and nobody ever asked if there is any equivalence. Now things changed, and $ is no longer universal, euro is replacing it everywhere, $ is coming back on the internal market, the American supremacy is fading, bringing huge internal economical problems. War is a good way to keep real problems hidden.

[sahyo]

could impoverishing, or seeming feeling impoverished, remain happening without governments trying exploiting, people trying to possess, and laws trying to reinforce the desire to possess/exploit?


asheera wondering communism truelike



no

[todd]

There is no sin in that. I see a biblical origin in it.

[sahyo]

r responsing "no"?

[todd]

responsing "no" m

[sonrisa]

slayer--Sonrisa and Asheera are also in the habit of posting just so the last post which they don't like is nolonger the last post.

--nope, but if I find something funny, which would be the majority of your posts, I'll post a :goodlaugh:



slayer--Sonrisa is a joke. She contributes nothing of worth. Worse yet, her reading comprehension ends after Thing One and Thing Two pop out the box.

-- :goodlaugh: this from his majesty le roi de France!! talk about the royal pot calling the kettle black!! :goodlaugh:



slayer-- I still enjoy berating them every now and then though, mostly because they're intellectually powerless against my attacks

-- :goodlaugh:



slayer-- So I'll probably infrequently keep up with the goings-on here, but I'll never post regularly again.

-- promises, promises....



slayer--It's now a liberal orgy

-- except we don't use blow-up dolls


slayer--They always think I'm joking
when I say this, but it sickens me to know they exist. It sickens me to know they have the right to vote.

-- in other words, u r 1 sick boy. No argument here. your majesty....



slayer--appreciate yours and Zygoat's posts

-- oh, so you're into Paris & Nicole, huh?



slayer- you dumb f*ck*ng child

--omg! Cheney's posting on this forum!!

[fu*]

dustwitch

1. What I am talking about is that I think you are perfectly capable of standing on your own two feet. Michael Jordon did not get good at basketball by watching someone else play basketball, or admiring someone else's superb play. It was practice, practice, practice. Might be better for you to have your own thoughts, and then protect them.

2. Do you mean the 5 major corporations that control virtually all the media that you receive? You seem to have swallowed whole everything you have been fed.

---Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.

Albert Einstein---



3. Of course not.

4. I asked for your definition. Assuming you have a mind of your own, I would think you would have one. You are welcome to use parts of the declaration of independence, or the bill of rights, but it doesn't seem to bolster your position much. Unless you are suggesting an overthrow of the present intrusive government.

5. Survival of the fittest? One of your arguments about evil Saddam is that he gassed his own people. Isn't that survival of the fittest? I guess ethnic cleansing is fine with you then.
I don't think you thought that one out to well. Maybe you should try again.

6.Yes, Slayer is like a short college course in logic, For free even! However you don't seem to be grasping any of the lessons.

7. No.

8. You are a bubbling cauldron of emotions aren't you? When you learn to control that, you may see that I called you no names.

9. >>>dw believes that imagined/reasoned/assumption true?<<<





>>>I alone am responsible for my education and enlightenment.<<<

Education has nothing to do with "enlightenment". Neither does politics.
I haven't seen any indication that you are interested in "enlightenment" or awakening.

fu

[slayer]

Sonrisa, why do you think it a winning point to remind everyone that I once claimed to be the present king of France? Did my explanation to Owen go completely over your head? Of course it did. But here is the explanation again, so the whole world can assess what's beyond your reading comprehension.

[slayer...]I claimed that I was the present king of France in order to make a point. And the point is this. Let's say 'R' means 'slayer is the present king of France.' You would also give another symbolic sentence the meaning that 'there is no present king of France.' Fine, but after you logically showed that R was false, then what could you say about the world? If you say that you've shown that the world isn't as I say it is, when claiming to be the present king of France, then I would respond that your proof didn't demonstrate anything of the kind, because you've arbitrarily assigned a truth value to 'there is no present king of France.' If it's not arbitrary, then you do in fact, counter to what you claim, subscribe to a correspondence theory of truth. That is, the truth (or falsehood) of 'there is no present king of France' is determined by the facts -- by how the world is.

Wow, seems pretty clear that I didn't think I was the present king of France.

I'm sorry that I cannot write how you're used to seeing the printed word.
I'll keep it to your level of understanding, vague when not absurd.
I'll even rhyme, for added pleasure.
Yet I'm no ribbed condom, so let ecstasy be not the measure.
Suffice that you reach comprehension.
Your stupidity we'll not mention.
Instead I'll take on the task undaunted.
Though were your head a home, it wouldn't even be haunted.
Yet something tells me this task too great.
For water will not remain inside a wooden crate.
No, the water will escape, that is clear.
And so will comprehension escape you, Sonrisa dear.

the present king of poetry,

slayer

[sonrisa]

slayer--Sonrisa, why do you think it a winning point to remind everyone that I once claimed to be the present king of France?

-- I don't
not about win/lose, slayer dear



slayer--Did my explanation to Owen go completely over your head?

--as I recall, Owen wasn't all that much impressed by your "explanation". For that matter, neither am I



slayer--I'll keep it to your level of
understanding, vague when not absurd.
I'll even rhyme, for added pleasure.
Yet I'm no ribbed condom, so let ecstasy be not the measure.
Suffice that you reach comprehension.
Your stupidity we'll not mention.
Instead I'll take on the task undaunted.
Though were your head a home, it wouldn't even be haunted.
Yet something tells me this task too great.
For water will not remain inside a wooden crate.
No, the water will escape, that is clear.
And so will comprehension escape you, Sonrisa dear.

the present king of poetry

-- :goodlaugh:

[zygoat]

sonrisa,
I wouldn't say she's all that funny, Pnklphnts, but she is a joke!

"zygoat" pretty much sums up her current devloepmental stage, dontcha think?
you are the underdeveloped female here!!

[zygoat]

sonrisa,
Definition: [n] the cell resulting from the union of an ovum and a spermatozoon (including the organism that develops from that cell)

Synonyms: fertilized ovum

See Also: cell




Medical Dictionary

Definition: The fertilized egg or ovum.

Biology Dictionary

Definition: The single cell formed by the union of a sperm and an ovum or other male and female gametes.

[slayer]

--as I recall, Owen wasn't all that much impressed by your "explanation". For that matter, neither am I

First of all, Owen didn't respond after I gave the explanation, so I'm not sure how you got the impression that he wasn't impressed by my explanation. You're just making things up again, as is your practice.

Second, why the scare quotes around 'explanation'? -- it's a legitmate use of the word and my explanation explains.

Third, you're using "impressed" to mean 'did not like.' But whether he liked it is irrelevant to whether it's a good response to his claim. And it is a good response because it brings out how his theory about truth is impractical, which was my argument.

Fourth, you're committing the fallacy of appeal to authority here, because Owen doesn't determine when something counts as a good argument against him. If you could actually understand the debate he and I were having, then you'd be able to say something like ,"Oh no, slayer, Owen is right because...." But you can't, which is why all you say is that Owen wasn't impressed with my explanation.

The fact is that you're completely in the dark as to who is right here, Owen or I, but yet you persist with your opinions -- because stupid people need their opinions about everything. That is, if Owen were right, you wouldn't know why -- you'd just be able to cut and paste his response. Like I said, your comprehension is lacking.

It's too bad you were fabricating Owen's impression about my particular explanation, because then he would have told you that I didn't really think I was the present king of France, for at least he would have understood -- as can anyone who bothers to read the explanation -- that I was making a point in claiming that I was the present king of France. That I make the point I wanted successfully should be a clue to you that that's in fact what I was out to do.

And before you, in your disingenuous way, go quoting something Owen said, make sure it doesn't predate my explanation in question. I hope you do try to get over on this, because I'll expose yet another lie of yours.

Wow, there sure was a lot wrong with just two lines of yours. I'm sorry, I don't have the energy to explain your wrong-thinking about the rest.

your benefactor,

slayer

[sonrisa]

--as I recall, Owen wasn't all that much impressed by your "explanation". For that matter, neither am I

slayer--First of all, Owen didn't respond after I gave the explanation, so I'm not sure how you got the impression that he wasn't impressed by my explanation. You're just making things up again, as is your practice.

--nope, just got it mixed up
this is what I was referring to:
Owen
Apparently you do not understand the statement "There is no present King of France"

Your arrogance and insulting manner is not interesting to me.

Evidently the gang here is right about you!

I give up! Have a good day.

but, as you pointed out, he got pissed at you before you posted your "explanation", as far I know hasn't posted anything since.

when I went back to find that topic & doublcheck the above quote, I read that topic all the way thru from the start. I can't believe you two were even arguing about that nonsense



slayer--Second, why the scare quotes around 'explanation'?

-- scare quotes, scare quotes?!!? how are they scary?


slayer--Third, you're using "impressed" to mean 'did not like.'
--nope, was using impressed to mean (un)impressed



slayer--.... you'd be able to say something like ,"Oh no, slayer, Owen is right because...." But you can't, which is why all you say is that Owen wasn't impressed with my explanation.

--slayer, slayer, :shakehead: still hung up on this right/wrong stuff...



slayer--The fact is that you're completely in the dark as to who is right here, Owen or I

--like it really matters? to paraphrase Shakespeare, it's the discussion (or, in posting with you, the game) that's the thing


slayer-- I didn't really think I was the present king of France

-- I should hope not! It's one of your more entertaining posts however. But if being reminded of it pisses you off then I'll stop referring to it. I'm just having some fun, it's never my intention to piss you off.


:)

[slayer]

Sonrisa,

Yes, I remember Owen's frustration, and I remember the quote above. He knew his formal logic, but he took it too far by claiming that truth is that which can be proven. This rendered almost all of his "truths" impractical, which he would have seen had he stuck around to read my explanation. I still think he overreacted.

When you put quotes around a word intending to show that you don't really think the word applies to whatever you're applying it to, then those quotes are called scare quotes. It's not my own private terminology, but a common one. For example: Micheal Moore's "documentary." Here the scare quotes indicated that I don't think he made a documentary but something else, namely propaganda. (I don't wish to start a debate about that here though -- it's just an example).

Sonrisa: "--nope, was using impressed to mean (un)impressed"

Well, you said that Owen "wasn't impressed...", but then it doesn't make sense to say you meant 'unimpressed' by 'impressed,' for then you'd be saying something more along the lines that he was impressed, which isn't what you wanted. What you should have said was that you were using "wasn't impressed" to mean 'was unimpressed,' which is roughly what I said originally.

Yes, I am hung up on right and wrong. I see no reason not to be. It's very counterintuitive to say that there's no such thing as right and wrong, or that right and wrong don't matter, because they very much do. But if there's an argument for your view, I'd be happy to read it.

I'll be frank. I'm not into any Eastern philosophies, I have no desire to learn any, I don't believe in enlightenment through methods beyond logical reasoning, and I don't believe in awakening (whatever that is). I have a very rough general understanding, but what I know is enough to put me off.

I think philosophy as it is practiced in the West is the only way to achieve a sophisticated understanding about the world and ourselves, and any philosophy or religion that countenances something different is unacceptable to me. Unacceptable in that they don't cut the mustard. But what seems truly futile is for someone to tell me that things are thus-and-thus and expect me not to take apart their argument using logic. Logic just is the body of knowledge that evaluates arguments. Thus, their arguments for favoring some Eastern philosophy will always be scrutinized with respect to logic, so they had better be up on their logic (not formal logic per se) in order to give a compelling argument. But if I can take apart the argument, they can't turn around and tell me that I'm just using my Western way of thinking. No, it is the only way of thinking when evaluating arguments.

I disagree with Shakespeare here, for it's the answers that matter. If debate were always about something trivial, then it would lose its appeal. We discuss things passionately when the subject is one we're passionate about. Like you said about Owen and my argument, "like it really matters?"-- thus expressing that the answer wasn't interesting to you. Well, the answer was interesting to us, and it's an important answer, but it doesn't mean you have to recognize its importance. What it does mean is that the discussion isn't the important thing, but the significance of the answer is, even the possible significance.

No, you calling me the present king of France or referring to me as 'your majesty' doesn't bother me one bit. What bothers me is that you give the impression that I actually thought I was the present king of France. This is an unfair characterization of what I did in claiming to be the present king of France. My explanation suggests very clearly that I never thought this, which I didn't, so it's just a falsehood to say I did. This is the part that bothers me, nothing else.

Despite the impression some of my more vitriolic posts would suggest, I'm typically rather composed. I'm not aloof towards people, but their insults can seldom reach me. So I don't get upset over the name calling, I get upset over rhetoric, dogma, falseness, and the dishonesty I detect in people. (Get out the violins!). I don't think I'm fault-free, but, please, all I ask is an argument for one's claims. If a claim is intuitive, then our intuition is our argument. But counterintuitive claims need arguments. Otherwise you're just asking me to believe counter to my commonsense, which I can't do without reasons.

Take Asheera, for example. She is fond of asserting all sorts of preposterous claims without even the semblance of an argument. And these are very counterintuitive claims. E.g., that langauge cannot say anything about the world, or can't be used to communicate. And it's obvious that she doesn't have good reasons for believing what she believes, yet she persists in believing them, which makes her irrational. She just is an irrational human being. If you believe things counter to our intuitions -- and I say our because we all generally share the same intuitions -- then, in the absence of reasons, one is irrational. This is why I don't discuss things with her anymore, because it's useless.

Now, I am of the opinion that some of the regulars here are poor to very poor reasoners. So while it's not useless to discuss things with them, their lack of reasoning abilities makes explanation a chore. They put forth problems that aren't problems. They ask questions which should not be asked. In other words, they can't completely ascertain what is being explained -- they aren't very good judges of arguments. I'm not the world's authority on arguments or good philosophy, but I'm able enough to know who isn't even adequate.

And the thing is that people remain adamant about their position in the face of a much stronger counter-argument. They are dogmatic even after I dissect their argument and reasoning. When this happens, one realizes that there isn't even a discussion going on, just a screaming match. I'm all for screaming matches, but I am not into wasting my time explaining things to people incapable of being or unwilling to be objective with respect to the argument.

this has been my unsolicited view of things,

slayer

[sonrisa]

now why can't you post this way all of the time to everybody? Ok, most of the time. Is it really that much of a chore?

Sorry it has taken me couple days to get back to you, but I have 2 jobs & all hell is breaking loose at one of them, so my time has been rather limited, & I want to take the time to give this latest post the proper attention it deserves.

Yeah, that does not make much sense, saying I used impressed to mean unimpressed (these things happen when you're sleep deprived, I guess) But what I actually said was ".... Owen wasn't all that much impressed..." & that is what I meant at the time. But rereading his post he appears to me now to have been rather pissed, but that is how I'm reading it. ICBW.

As for Asheera, I'm guessing you're referring to her "language cannot say" post. Haven't you ever been at a complete loss for words? Never? Something has never come up that has totally confounded you verbally, simply defied a verbal description? Never? Hmmm.... interesting....

Sure there's right & wrong-- on the street. If we were having this discussion on the street & somebody jumped you & mugged you, I'll be the 1st person to say that was wrong, hell I may even call the cops for ya.
But we're not on the street, we're posting in a discussion forum. We are (supposedly) exchanging ideas, sharing pov's. So there are all these different pov's. That doesn't mean some are right & some are wrong (assuming the posts contain no factual errors, but that's another matter) they're just different pov's. You say you're an atheist. I'm not. Who's right & who's wrong? Vicente can post linx to Paschal's Wager all he wants. Doesn't make him right, doesn't make him wrong. Just expressing his pov.

That's it for now. I will get to the rest of your post when I got more time.

[NeverMind]

First, candidate Bush said we needed to give millionaires a huge tax cut because the surplus was too big. Then President Bush said it was because the economy was in recession. Now America has a record deficit and the economy is still dragging. At the same time, millions of our kids need health care, Head Start, and decent schools—and there’s no money to pay for them.



What’s Bush’s solution? You guessed it. Stay the course! Continue cutting taxes for rich folks and leave basic needs unmet at home and abroad. Oh, and let our kids deal with the fiscal and social mess sometime in the future – after he’s out of office anyway.



This time, Bush wants to extend $75 billion in tax cuts for years into the future. These cuts are scheduled to expire at the end of this year. Bush’s backers want to push the giant tax cut extension through the House this week, before lawmakers head out of town for vacation, and then celebrate the victory at the Republican convention this August.


Here are the facts:
Under Bush’s three tax cuts to date, the wealthiest one percent of millionaires (with annual incomes of over $335,000) will be keeping an extra $60,000 this year—and for the next six years. Folks who make less than $16,000 per year (the poorest 20 percent) will get $100 or less in tax cuts this year (Citizens for Tax Justice, www.ctj.org).



Meanwhile the federal deficit has risen to over $400 billion—the highest in American history—and it’s projected to grow even higher next year (Congressional Budget Office, www.cbo.gov).

Yours for responsible fiscal policy,

[sonrisa]

click here for some info re: jobs & unemployment (http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/072004E.shtml)

[sonrisa]

or click here for some fun (http://www.dtriptv.org)


:)

[zygoat]

Sonrisa,
Consider just one figure. Since June 2000, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the number of adults considered "not in the labor force" - those who don't have jobs and are not looking for them - has grown by about 4.4 million, to 66.6 million.



But in this recovery, optimism remains muted. The "labor participation rate," the percentage of people who either have jobs or are looking for them, has barely begun to revive after dropping sharply since 2000.

Among adults in their prime earning years, ages 25 to 54, the work force participation rate has dropped to 82.8 percent from 83.9 percent in 2000. That may seem a minuscule decline, but it is the lowest rate since 1987, and it translates into millions of people. In June 2000, the Labor Department estimated that 62.2 million people over the age of 20 were "not in the labor force." By this June, the number had jumped to 66.6 million. The extra 4.4 million amounted to more than half of the 8.2 million people officially labeled unemployed.


ALL a result of the CLINTON RECESSION!!! :nono:

[sonrisa]

what Clinton recession? The economy was going full throttle during the 90's, when Clinton was in office. those figures you posted are from this millenium.

Look Paris, or Nicole, or whatever your real name is, why don't you stop regurgitating that crap from Faux News? It is uninteresting. And why do you flame all the time? It is juvenile. This forum doesn't have many rules, but do you know there is one about flaming? Anyhow, you got the world wide web at your fingertips. Why don't you take advantage of it & get your news from some real news sites (& there are plenty) you may even learn a thing or two.

or is that what you're afraid of?

[sonrisa]

actually, the economy is too complex to be reduced to some misleading (& therefore meaningless) numbers. This is from The Bull Market Weekly Advisor:


HOUSING

HIGHER RATES THREATEN TO END HOUSING SWEET SPOT

The U.S. housing market, led by major cities in California and on the East Coast, has been on a four-year winning streak, with home prices rising and demand for new and existing homes running unabated. But the boom was spawned by an unusual set of circumstances, including interest rates at a level typically seen in the midst of a depression and expectations for income growth rates that you'd see in a booming economy. Those unusual circumstances have created a rickety-looking housing market, and now that interest rates are climbing, home prices in many parts of the country are on the verge of coming down.

TODD'S TAKE: It is just as difficult to predict a market top as it is to predict a market bottom. You can't. But you can see the signs, and in the housing market they point to a slowdown in home buying, and potentially a decrease in home values. The effect on the economy could come quickly or slowly, but any way you cut it a drop in the Home business is going to hurt.

The problem has a lot to do with interest rates, and thus mortgage rates. To start, low rates and rising home values have lured many buyers into purchasing homes they might not otherwise have ever considered, for the prices were too high. The prospect of growing their home equity, and selling a few years down the road with a huge return, has proven enough to convince many buyers to take on houses that eat up 50% or more of their monthly budgets. That has left them with little room to adjust to any change in their income or their costs.

Unfortunately, higher costs are on the way for those who have mortgaged their homes with adjustable-rate mortgages. As rates climb, so do monthly payments, and with so many people walking a fine line between what they can and can't afford, it is obvious many who just jumped into the market are going to have to jump out even more quickly. This is obvious in the fact that the ratio of home prices to median family income is at a record 3.5, or 20% higher than it was just four years ago. Many people have been buying homes they can't afford.

Obviously that trend can't continue. Home prices cannot continually climb faster than income, which they certainly have done during the Housing boom. At some point that has to end, and odds are that it won't end with a huge surge income growth. That means a slowdown in housing prices is coming, and in some markets prices will actually fall as people move out of homes they can no longer afford. The fact that homes now are more leveraged than ever will magnify this situation: Mortgage debt has grown sharply in last four years, leaving home equity at 55% of housing value. If home prices slump, home equity for highly leverage individuals can be wiped out.

The pressure on home values is also going to come from rising interest rates. As mortgage rates climb, so do monthly payments. That's going to price many homes out of the range of buyers, which means in a rising rate environment that in order for demand to remain just where it is, home prices are going to have to come down. For instance, if fixed mortgage rates climb 200 basis points, home prices would have to decline 20% just to keep mortgage payments at current levels. That makes it clear that a 200 bp jump in rates, which isn't out of this world, would certainly push many homes out of reach for the average buyer.

THE BOTTOM LINE: The problem is that a slowdown in the home market will run through Construction, Lending, Real Estate, Home Improvement, and consumer spending. Some economists argue that declining home values have twice the negative effect as a comparable decline in the value of stocks. Yikes. Other estimates suggest that a 5% decline in home prices over the next five years will cut GDP growth in half from current levels to 2% by the end of next year. To avoid such a major fallout, home prices are going to have to decline slower and less drastically; and incomes are going to have to climb steadily. Right now, the Housing market has been the fuel for the economic engine since 2000, and the tank is running low.


********************

CURRENCIES

WHAT'S UP WITH THE DOWN DOLLAR?

In mid-May, the U.S. dollar was up from 8% from the levels hit in January, when it was at a two-year low. The prospect of higher interest rates went a long way to luring investors back to the greenback, yet the upward march was reversed even before speculation of a Federal Reserve rate increase was finally affirmed at the end of June. The change in direction might appear confounding, but with the dollar now at a three-month low, the factors behind the drop are clear, and they point to more softness ahead.

TODD'S TAKE: Higher interest rates attract foreign investors, for they mean that dollars invested in the U.S. will reap higher yields. In order to invest in the U.S., foreigners must buy U.S. dollars, which pushes up the value.

So why has the dollar declined, even as rates have increased? To start, the economic data has taken a turn south, showing weakness in new hiring and factory output. Where in May the outlook called for steady interest rate increases, it now appears to bond investors that the Fed can take a slower approach to cranking up rates. Look at the 10-year Treasury yield: It is hovering near the lows last seen in April.

Second, there is no shortage of U.S. debt to buy. The trade deficit in April hit a record $48 billion, up from $47 billion in March; it is on track to approach $600 billion this year, or 6% of GDP. This is a deficit that foreigners are financing, and when the dollar is strong, the ability of foreign investors to take it on is diminished. Why? Their local currency will account for a smaller part of the deficit. What's more, as the economy expands the deficit tends to grow.

What's particularly troubling is that in the past the U.S. has typically come out of a recession with a small or positive current-account balance, which is the measure of the trade deficit and net income from foreign investments. This time, however, when the economy slowed dramatically in 2001, the current-account deficit was already 3% of GDP. What this means is that we had big current-account and trade deficits even before the economy truly started to expand. Now that the economy is growing, those deficits are getting even larger, as we've seen so far this year. For foreigners to lend us a sufficient amount of money to handle these deficits, they have to get more for their money. That means something has to give -- and it is the value of the dollar.

Interestingly, interest rates play a key and conflicting role in this situation. Most of the current-account deficit has been financed via bond and stock purchases as opposed to direct foreign investment. Asian central banks have been the biggest buyers, as they've acted to keep their currencies low relative to the dollar. They've sold their currencies, bought dollars, and then bought bonds. But printing local currency to buy dollars has fed inflation in places like China, and the central banks have eased off on bond buying since this spring.

Here's the crux, however. Over the coming year, interest rates might not rise as quickly as expected just a month ago, but they will rise. And as they do, so too will bond yields. In fact, with the trade deficit growing and the amount of debt rising, yields are going to have to climb to lure buyers. But higher yields suck more money out of the economy, and will actually grow the size of the current-account deficit as measured as a percent of GDP. According to Goldman Sachs, a 6% yield on the 10-year Treasury would add 1% of GDP to the current-account deficit within several years. And so the cycle of debt and a weakening dollar would continue.

THE BOTTOM LINE: Growing debt, rising inflation, and a huge appetite for foreign goods is pushing the value of the U.S. dollar down. This can benefit U.S. exporters, but it weakens our buying power, and it is a sign of a weak economy. We need to get the debt, the trade deficit, and the budget deficit under control. Over the past several years, we haven't, and the currency market has adjusted accordingly. Tuesday we got the May trade deficit figure, and thankfully it came in slightly lower than the record set in April. That was a pleasant surprise, but as noted in Economy Watch, we didn't like the fact that imports rose so much.


Bottom Line- the economy isn't the best in 40 years. Infact, it's rather weak, shaky even. Altho the BMWA doesn't go so far to actually say it, if the euro ever replaces the dollar as the world currency, we're screwed. Please note the BMWA is referring to things that happened after Clinton was out of office....

[zygoat]

sonrisa,
you're the one with the vagina!!

[zygoat]

sonrisa,
those quoted figures are from your post,and yes they are from this milennium,but they are numbers from the clinton administration :nono:

[sonrisa]

what post are you referring to? The BMWA is referring to events over the last few months not years. If you are referring to the info from the Labor Dept in your post, go back & reread it- it's saying that things were better in 2000 (& you are correct, Mr Bill was still in office then) than they are now.

Sorry about the gender mix up- something in one of your posts awhile back led me to think you were female.

[sonrisa]

Hello Slayer,

I got the unexpected gift of some free time tonite, so I decided to use it to finish my post to you, altho you appear to have abandoned this topic. But I like to finish what I start so I'll finish it nonetheless. Here goes:


slayer-Yes, I remember Owen's frustration. He knew his formal logic, but he took it too far by claiming that truth is that which can be proven.

-- this is interesting. Given some of your posts here, not to mention that brights link you posted, I would think you would be the first to agree with Owen. Are you actually telling me that there are some Truths that cannot be poven?


slayer-- For example: Micheal Moore's "documentary." Here the scare quotes indicated that I don't think he made a documentary but something else, namely propaganda. (I don't wish to start a debate about that here though -- it's just an example).

--to continue with your example:
that is your pov & it is dependent on how you define "propaganda" (scuse the scare quotes). F911 is based on facts (propganda is based on something else) that are a matter of public record. Most of the stuff in that movie has been floating around, it's been reported in the indymedia, or on the alternet, or in the foreign press. Only the mainstream media has been blowing that info off. (so who has been churning out "propaganda"?) I know lots of folx who don't even bother getting their news from the mainstream media anymore becuz they think it's all a load of crap (their pov's, but I have to agree with them when it comes to Faux News)

According to Time magazine, fact checkers from The New Yorker went thru that movie to make sure everything in it is correct & there are no errors. This makes sense to me- if I had made that movie, I would make doubly sure my facts were straight too. No way would I leave myself open for a libel suit. Michael Moore has stated that the opinions in the movie are his own. I will admit he serves up the info (both fact & opinion) in ways not found in most documentaries. But then traditional documentaries are pretty dry & do not appeal to the masses. Michael Moore makes his documentaries in such ways that the public can relate to them. They may not be traditional documentaries, but I wouldn't go so far to call them propaganda either. That's my pov.



slayer--Yes, I am hung up on right and wrong....yadayada...

--ok, this is where I left off. As I said, there is right & wrong on the street, but this is a discussion forum. A place to share ideas & pov's. As a rule, your opinions/pov are shaped by your experiences in life. So somebody shares their pov re: something, based on their experiences, that differs from yours- who are you to come along & say they are "wrong"? Do you know this person? Do you know what they've experienced? Do you know where they are are coming from, even when they post it? So where do you get off telling somebody they are "wrong", especially when posting in some of the more speculative topix in these forums?

The above "you's" are rhetorical, btw. But these "you's" are not:
You say you only have a rough general understanding of Eastern philosophies, & you think you can tell folx if they are "right" or "wrong" in their opinions on such subjects? This is tantamount to me taking my rough general knowledge of quantum mechanics & telling Stephen Hawking exactly how the universe should be. Well almost tantamount- I'm not saying that everybody here is the spiritual eqivalent of Stephen Hawking- I certainly am not- but those of us who post here are interested in such things & read up on these subjects, & are more knowledgeable on them than you, as evidenced by the posts. Some of the discussions in these topix are on more than one level, but you only appear to be aware of one level- the one you post to. This is another of the many reasons you are so much fun, btw, becuz alot of times you really don't know what you are talking about.



slayer--I'll be frank. I'm not into any Eastern philosophies, I have no desire to learn any, I don't believe in enlightenment through methods beyond logical reasoning, and I don't believe in awakening (whatever that is). I have a very rough general understanding, but what I know is enough to put me off.

--not to be rude, but y r u here? This is not an invitation to leave, I wouldn't do that, if for no other reason than it runs contrary to the 1st Amendment. I'm coming from a place of common sense here. You say that this forum is terrible, a good idea gone bad. You are not into enlightenment, have no desire to learn, infact it puts you off. You say there are very few folx here for you to talk to. Life is short. Wouldn't your time be better spent posting in a forum about topix that interest you with folx you can relate to? Just a thought.


slayer--yadayada .... thus-and-thus and expect me not to take apart their argument using logic. Logic just is the body of knowledge that evaluates arguments. Thus, their arguments for favoring some Eastern philosophy will always be scrutinized with respect to logic, so they had better be up on their logic (not formal logic per se) in order to give a compelling argument.... yadayada.... it is the only way of thinking when evaluating arguments.

-- thank you for sharing that Mr Spock
(sorry, couldn't resist)


slayer--I disagree with Shakespeare here, for it's the answers that matter.....

--but do not the answers (& by that I take it you mean responses to posts) comprise the discussion? If there are no responding posts, then there is no discussion.

In one of these topix (please don't make me go back & find which one) you were saying something about the importance of the quality of the posts to a discussion forum. Guess what?- don't pass out on me- I happen to agree. Poo-pooing other folx posts, calling us morons, simpletons, dumb f*ck*ng child, etc.. telling us how we're "wrong" about this, "wrong" about that, "wrong", "wrong", "wrong".... that is not conducive to a good discussion. Eventually, one of 2 things is gonna happen:

a) folx like me will roll our eyes, say F this, & turn the discussion into a game. At this point there is no right/wrong/, right/left, up/down, hi/lo..... at this point, to again paraphrase Shakespeare, the entertainment value is the thing. Nothing more, nothing less.

or b ) folx like Owen will say F you (with aplolgies to Fu*) & stop posting altogether. Course Owen was alot more polite about it, but that basically that's what he said. Somebody dropping out of the forum may not be a loss to you, hell it may not even be a loss to me for that matter, but it would be a loss to others in the forum who were posting with that person. And it would be a loss to the forum as a whole, & as more folx drop out of the forum it withers & dies. And that is sad.


slayer--I'm typically rather composed
--if you say so

slayer--They ask questions which should not be asked.

--there are no questions that should not be asked


slayer-- And the thing is that people remain adamant about their position in the face of a much stronger counter-argument. They are dogmatic even after I dissect their argument

--maybe they remain adament about their position becuz they are unimpressed (& I do mean unimpressed) with the "much stronger counter-argument" Who sez the "counter-argument" is stronger anyhow? And making fun of somebody's pov, calling them names. etc... is not dissecting anything.

& this has been my view of things, not right, not wrong, just something to consider.....

[zygoat]

sonrisa,
as for the gender mix-up,I could say the same about some of your posts,LOL!! no harm,no foul!
but as far as the post we were discussing,the numbers you are quoting clearly state that the downward spiral had started under Clinton. B)

[NeverMind]

Clinton may have lied, but not nearly as many people died.
Why have a Bush when you can have two Johns? (tee hee poop joke)

[zygoat]

no brains,er I mean Never you mind,
BJ(clinton)lied and thousands died,innocent men ,women and children in KOSOVO,but I guess because they weren't Americans they don't count,clinton lied and embassies got blown up and he did nothing!!clinton lied and American soldiers died and got drug through the streets of Somalia!!clinton lied and the WTC got bombed in 93',clinton lied and the USS COLE got bombed,Americans died,clinton lied and you can put his name and murder into any search engine and you will see over 90 people who worked with and for him who died :angry:

[NeverMind]

But Bush has killed hundreds of americans! BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
And that's bad. Thats bad, thats very very bad.

[zygoat]

Nevermind,
American soldiers have died as a result of our actions in Iraq,yes,Clinton himself has Americans who worked for him snuffed,that's bad!!

[NeverMind]

They probly deserved it.
Plus, where'd you get those stats? Clinton (or Klinton as I call him) doesn't seem like the murderer type.
Ya know what I mean? DO ya? do ya? do Ya! DOOOO YYAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[zygoat]

Nevermind,
check these links for Clinton deaths


ARKANCIDE (http://cbn2.tripod.com/dlink.html)

CLINTON DEATH LIST (http://www.lizmichael.com/clintond.htm)

Clinton body count (http://www.etherzone.com/body.html)

do you think they DESERVED IT??????? :nono:

[zygoat]

Nevermind,
also if anyone wants to they can check out all of the rapes and sexual abuses of BJ Clinton,

clinton rapes (http://cbn2.tripod.com/rape.html) :angry:

[NeverMind]

but Clinton pimps hoes.

[zygoat]

Nevermind,
did you click on the link and see the Ho's that BJ pimped? :huh:

[NeverMind]

I don't have time to click on every little link.
Clinton was a pimp, let's leave it at that.
BTW there was no evidence there that Clinton had them killed. (i did read that link)

[zygoat]

Nevermind,
I give you links,and there are links within the links,yet you will still go around perpetuating lies,yet when the truth is right in front of you, you dismiss it!!

[NeverMind]

I am far too busy to explore your links.
I have to play guitar! I play and play!
and i think i shall not click on your links

[sonrisa]

hmmmm, looks like NM has an axe to grind....

[NeverMind]

My fingertips are bleeding. Ouchie.
But I can play Voodoo Child (slight return) totally awesomely. Not as awesome as Jimi but pretty freaking cool.