Decision-making And Predestination

[NeverMind]

I'd like to prompt a discussion on why human being decide and do what they do.
What is it that makes us do and say whay we do?
Why do we have the opinions we do?
Do the causes for our opinions prevent us from ever really having free will?
Me and one of my friends are trying to write a paper on the subject (on our own time, not for school or anything) and I would like to know some other educated opinions on the subject.

[pnklphnts]

What defines us? Who are we?

The human-body is bound to matter as is all in this universe. All an anthropoid is is his/her body. His/her decisions are made up of his genetically created brain and experiences which affect the brain. Both of these things are uncontrollable by the human. You were born with your mind, and your experiences were because of the environment you were born into to. Your first decision was influenced by these factors, as is every decision made currently. The first atom held the entire world’s fate.

[HolyTao]

The above post may be true, but for practical purposes I find it helpful to see life like a river. We are swept along to a certain extent, but we have some control, and when we come to a "fork in the river" we can chose the path to take. The current varies from time to time, etc.

[pnklphnts]

Thanks for the reply,
i am intrested as to how we make this decision to go one way in a fork of a river. As in what is making the decision? What is you? and can you control what you are?

[NeverMind]

There are certain factors which come into play when a decision is being made:

Your body: Basic human nature, instincts, DNA, etc.

Your prior experience: Everything you have gone through changes you and affects which decisions you make in the future.

Therefore: You have no control over the decisions you really make.

I'd really like someone to come up with a GOOD argument against this.

Also, does anyone know anyone who has done some writing on this topic that i may refer to? I've got the whole summer ahead of me and I'd like to figure this out.

[HolyTao]

Yes, well, you had to post that, didn't you ... and I have to post this, in reply. :unsure:

So, "Free Will" is an illusion <_<

You could also consider the larger question...

"Is the fate of the Universe Predestined?"

and more interestingly... "the fate of Life in the Universe!"

[HolyTao]

Actually, I think Life will (if it hasn't already) begin to break out of it's "prison" of being bound by predestined forces, and it will begin to take more "control" of the future development of the Universe.

[NeverMind]

No offense dude, but you're kinda straying from the questions I'm trying to answer. I'm trying to talk about basic human nature and decision-making and you're off on the Predestination of the Life of the universe. C'mon man, that just aint cool. Try to stay on track a little bit more.

;)
Quote: "There is absolutely no truth to what you just said"

[pnklphnts]

Mr. Nevermind,
he is not straying from the question at all, predestination is what we are talking about, just on a larger scale.
HolyTao,
I'm interested in how it can stray? for whatever we have will always be materalistic inside of us, and, by nature, predetermand. How can fate chang? What changes it?

[NeverMind]

Cam, you are a penis. :o

Suck on that!

[pnklphnts]

please, the name is Doctor Cam

[NeverMind]

If you're Doctor Cam, I am DOCTOR DOOM!!! And i will totally shoot you will my cosmic death rays that come out of my palms! :lol:

[todd]

Thinking, comparing interior options, ideals and dreams to the exterior material, real, possible. Sounds like here is the decision.
So why do you do it this way? Because you already decided so. Why have you decided so? Because your thinking capacity and state of mind allowed you to reach that specific decision.
I was trying to think how could it be if you would live your life twice, in exactely the same point, would you take the same decision.
Not sure. Faith is another element here.

[NeverMind]

Todd, I think you just summed up our whole philosophy in a sexy little nutshell. Thank you very much. I love your choice of words.

Also, if you lived the same life twice I believe you would make the EXACT same decisions. And even if you didn't it wouldn't be under your control. If God was involved, that variable would also be completely out of your control.

Basically: YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER YOUR LIFE!

[a random hack]

Basically: YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER YOUR LIFE!

if that's the case, why d osome people learn and change their ways?
maybe the decissions you make determine the life you live?
:)

[NeverMind]

Yes, the decisions you make change the course of your life, but those decisions are made based on prior decisions and a few other factors. Basically, I'm saying the decision-making process is controlled by these factors and so you do not have control.

Say someone is a drug dealer, what makes them turn things around? usually an event or a person. Something out of their control. :knockout:

[sahyo]

yes :), so still think decision is happening?

[NeverMind]

i think YOU do not control your decisions. Prior experiences, DNA, etc. dictate your decision-making process.

[sahyo]

YOU do not control



B)

...but is happening decisions?, or seeming decisions?...
can imagined YOU decision?

[NeverMind]

Please rephrase

[DrewPollock]

Its simple. pre-destination is non-existent. Not real. Only something made up by our own ego.
All decisions we are goin to make, we base what decision to make on our experiences in the past, or our craving to be "accepted" or please others, or raw sensation. You are not pre-destined to a certain decision. You can choose any decision. There is no such thing as destiny. there is only now.

[a random hack]

i think what asheera is asking is, if you don't believe in free will, do you still believe a decision is happening? perhaps, anyway :lol:

[NeverMind]

Newbie, you said we base our decisions on our past experience, right? Well that's just what I'm saying. Prior decisions are made by even earlier decisions and it goes back to our birth. We don't have the choice because the factors that affect what choice we make are out of our control

[DrewPollock]

yes the factors that effect our choice are out of our control, but the choice is not.

The choice we make is completely our decision. we base that decision on what kind of effect it will have on us later also.
if we are pre-destined to a certain decision, what if we all of sudden chose the decision that goes against the influence our past decisions have on us. Would we change what we were pre-destined to be? :unsure:

[sahyo]

nm/drew

if which seems choice/decision is reacting the past which not happening, and hope for the future which not happening, would say you is happening choice/decision?

and does/can 'you' which is imagined chose/decision?


HAck :D

[NeverMind]

but why do you make the decision that you make? because you think it's the best decision. and why do you think your choice is best? because of factors that are out of your control!

[sahyo]

yes no controlling
....can/does no controlling choice/decesions?

:)

[DrewPollock]

yes, you do think the decision is best because of factors that are out of your control. i agree. but just because you think the decision is best.... what does that matter? It doestn matter if you thought the decision you made was best, because the reaction from that decision will be the same whether you think it was a good decision or not.
Pre-destination is imagined. The choices that we make effect us. and our next choices. But as you get on down the line of choices, you have made so many choices to effect your decision that there is an argument for each choice.

the decisions we make will effect us, and the next decision too, and so forth. we are not pre-destined to a certain decision. we sometimes make a decision against our better judgement.... so that crushes our "pre-destination".

[sahyo]

....can/does no controlling choice/decisions?

rewording:

cannot happen controlling
so how can happen called 'choice/decisions'?

[sahyo]

Pre-destination is imagined.

yes

[DrewPollock]

I watched "Butterfly effect" last night. It has alot to do with decision making and pre-destination and stuff like that. I thought i would be disappointed but i wasnt. It was a great movie.

[NeverMind]

I think I'll take that into consideration.