Immediate After-death Scenarios

[DavidS]

Hi vicente -

I ran into something which very much reminded me of certain things you had shared pertaining to your Near Death Experience (NDE) which stood out in contrast to what has been reported by others who have also had NDE's. I can't find the thread where you described yours, so I am starting a new one.

It's from Michael Newton's first book, Journey of Souls. I don't know if you have read this. You indicated you were familiar with the sources I had recommended to richie, which included his second book Destiny of Souls, the only one I had read before now. But I ran into a coffee-shop acquaintance who had read that book on my recommendation, and she mentioned and recommended the first book saying it contained interesting material not included or referenced in the second one.

In Chapter 3 of Journey of Souls, titled Homecoming, Dr. Newton presents and discusses transcripts of hypnotherapy-regression sessions with three different clients, focusing on their 'immediate' after-death experiences following their 'prior' lives. The first two accounts pretty much conform with, and so in a way may be considered to 'confirm', what many people have reported (meeting friend, relatives, and/or spirit guides and approaching the light tunnel) about their NDE's. The third one, however, conformed with what I remember of your 'non-peopled' account. He (Dr. Newton) 'explains' that this is more typical of more experientially 'advanced' (my term) souls. I thought you (and others here) would find Dr. Newtons' account and sample transcript interesting and potentially informative or 'revealing'.

Picking up the text towards the end of the above-mentioned chapter, after the first two cases (numbered 7 and 8) were presented and discussed:
======
We have seen the importance of meeting other entitites while entering the spirit world. Besides uniting with our guides and other familiar beings, I have mentioned a third form of reentry after death. This is the rather disconcerting [to Dr. Newton] manner in which a soul is met by no one.

Although it is an uncommon occurrence for most of my clients, I still feel a little sorry for those subjects who descrie how they are pulled by unseen forces all alone to their final destinations, where contact is finally [my emphasis] made with others. This would be akin to landing in a foreign country where they ahve been before, but without any baggage handlers or tourist information desk to assist you with directions. I suppose what bothers me the most about this type of entry is the apparent lack of any soul acclimatization.

My own conceptions of what it must be like to be alone at the spiritual gateway and beyond is not shared by those souls who utilize the option of going solo. Actually, people in this category are experienced travelers. As older, mature souls, they seem to require no initial support system. They know right where they are going after death. I suspect the process is accelerated for them as well, because they manage to more rapidly wind up where they belong than those who stoop to meet others.

Case 9 is a client who has had a great number of lives, spanning thousands of years. About eight lives before his current one, people finally stopped meeting him at the spiritual gate.

Case 9
[My comment: Subject already 'hypnotized' and 'regressed' to the point of passing over from previous life]

Dr. N: What happens to you at the moment of death?

S (for 'Subject'): I feel a great sense of release and I move out fast.

Dr. N: How would you characterize your departure from Earth into the spirit world?

S: I shoot up like a column of light and I'm on my way.

Dr. N: Has it always been this fast for you?

S: No, only after my last series of lives.

Dr. N: Why?

S: I know the way. I don't need to see anybody -- I'm in a hurry.

Dr. N: And it doesn't bother you that you are not met by anyone?

S: (laughts) There was a time when it was good, but I don't require that sort of thing anymore.

Dr. N: Whose decision was it to allow you to enter the spirit world without assistance?

S: (pause and then with a shrug) It was ... a mutual decision ... between my teacher and me ... when I knew I could handle things by myself.

Dr. N: And you don't feel rather lost of lonely right now?

S: Are you kidding? I don;t need my hand held anymore. I know where I'm going and I'm anxious to get there. I'm being pulled along by a magnet and I just enjoy the ride.

Dr. N: Explain to me how this pulling process works which will take you to your destination.

S: I am riding on a wave ... a eban of light.

Dr. N: Is this beam electromagnetic, or what?

S: Well ... it's similar to the bands of a radio with someone turning the dial and finding the right frequency for me.

Dr. N: Are you saying you are being guided by an invisible force without much voluntary control and that you can't speed things up as you did right after death?

S: Yes, I must go with the wave bands of light ... the waves have direction and I'm flowing with it. It's easy. They do it all for you.

Dr. N: Who does it for you?

S: The ones in control ... I don't really know.

Dr. N: Then you are not in control. You don;t have the responsibility of finding your own destination.

S: (pause) My mind is in tune with the movement ... I flow with the resonance ...

Dr. N: Resonance? You hear sounds?

S: Yes, the wave beam ... vibrates ... I am locked into this, too.

Dr. N: Let's go back to your statement about the radio. Is your spiritual travel influenced by vibrational frequencies such as high, medium, and low resonance quality?

S: (laughing) That's no bad - yes, and I'm on a line, like a homing beacon of sound and light ... and it's part of my own tonal pattern -- my frequency.

Dr. N: I'm not sure I understand how light and vibration combine to set up directional bands.

S: Think of a monster tuning fork inside a flashing strobe light.

Dr. N: Oh, then there's energy here?

S: We have energy -- witin an energy field. So, it isn't just the lines we travel on ... we generate energy ourselves ... we can use these forces depending on our experience.

Dr. N: Then your maturity level does give you some element of control in the rate and direction of travel.

S: Yes, but not right here. Later, when I am settled I can move around much more on my own. Now, I'm being pulled and I'm supposed to go with it.

Dr. N: Okay, stay with this and describe to me what happens next.

S: (short pause) I'm moving alone ... being homed into my proper space ... going where I belong.

[Returning to Dr. Newton's textual discussion format] In hypnosis, the analytical conscious mind works in conjucntion with the unconscious mind to receive and answer messages directed to our deep-seated memories. The subject in Case 9 is an electrical engineer and thus he utilized some techinical descriptions to express his spiritual sensations. This client's predisposition to explain his thoughts on soul travel in techinical terms was encouraged, but not dictated, by my suggestions. All subjects bring their own segments of knowledge to bear on answering my quesions about the spirit world. This case used physical laws familiar to him to describe the motion, wheras anotehr person might have said souls move in this tract within a vacuum.
=====
Whatever Dr. Newton or his client actually mean by their word-descriptions, and to whatever extent the client's experience corresponds or deviates from your own, vicente, I submit to you that this kind of case material supports the proposition, which I have made to you before, that it is possible for widely differeing experiences to each (or all) be 'authentic' and that your 'assertions' that people whose experiences deviate from your own must be being 'inauthentic' in some way is a function of your 'believing' that the 'authenticity' of your personal experience means that it reflects 'universal' 'reality' or 'truth' and that any other kind is therefore a 'distortion' - which is a very ego'centric' conclusion and position (in relation to others) in my opinion.

Also, this case material touches on my assertion/suggestion to you that "No 'path' suits all," which you vehemently disagreed with and belittled. One could say that we all 'follow', or 'proceed' along, the same general path over the same general terrain, but the 'terrain' itself changes as one 'progresses' along the path, such that the kinds of ex·peer·iences had at certain 'points', or 'stages', of development significantly 'differ' from the kinds of ex·peeriences had at others.

Again, acknowledging that there may be 'significant' differences between your personal ex·peer·ience(s) and that of the subject making this 'report', and acknowledging that your interpretations and conclusions in thes regards may be 'significantly' different that Dr. Newtons and/or his client's, I submit to you and hope you concur that this report provides and puts your personal 'trip' and 'beliefs' pertaining thereto in meaningful perspective. For one thing, you are not really 'alone' in THE 'truth' and your are not the only 'enlightened' one presently on the planet!

Salut (from another 'loner' type, probably the 'basis' for the 'kinship' I feel with you, vicente) - David :)
--------
To any and every one else: the 'issue' between vicente and myself is only one 'reason' for my making this post. Please feel free to comment and take the discussion in any 'direction' your spirit moves you to.

[rich]

Interesting topic David, but have and had no memory of past life experiences in this lifetime, thus AFAIK this could be my first time around, as a being on Planet Earth, though some confirmed Hindus and Buddhists may think otherwise.

At present, I have no idea where or what I will be in the next world. I know I ain't an angel.

I also know that if I am to pass judgment on myself, I'd sentence me to hell for eternity.
I just am not happy with myself. I do not like me, and the way I react to others.
This post is a good example. What writing here proves my point.

[Hellas-goldie]

Originally posted by rich@Dec 1 2003, 10:45 AM



At present, I have no idea where or what I will be in the next world. I know I ain't an angel.

I also know that if I am to pass judgment on myself, I'd sentence me to hell for eternity.
I just am not happy with myself. I do not like me, and the way I react to others.
This post is a good example. What writing here proves my point.
I will say to you something very common that I am sure you have heard a lot of times.You have to love yourself.After all, you have nobody else to really understand you apart from yourself.
I really can't hear people think so negatively of themselves.You say you would sentence yourself to hell for eternity..Mama mou!
Mamma mia!
Think then how strict a judge you would be if you were to sentence someone else.
You don't like you??I don't like myself either, not always,but quite a lot of times.But that's me, I have learnt to be patient with myself and not too strict, otherwise I would go mad.
So please, be gentle to yourself because it's really bad not to go along with your inner self.

Now DavidS...it's your turn :D

I find all this about death,strange experiences ,mysterious events , really exciting.But having been challenged a lot of times by people who have a more rational way of thinking than mine,people who passionately search for evidence about everything,I found myself in a difficult position..I couldn't explain the unexplained when I was asked ''why?'' ''how do we come to this?''..
So my point here is that we maybe more sceptical towards people for example who have this kind of death experience you described above..
Do we really know if they lie?Do we really know that it has nothing to do with the brain function after some minutes or even seconds following death?

[vicente]

Hey DavidS,...Michael Newton was the one person on your pervious list that I haven't read,...I did enjoy your above post however.

To the point; my contention that experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief, is a transcendent point of view. Yes, there are " widely differering experiences", but there can be only one authentic experience, which would be experienced without preferences. Yes, people may take all sorts of paths to Source, but eventually all those paths dissolve, save one. So why not go for the one path that never dissolves to begin with?

Because I have experienced preferencelessly, in no way is suggesting that I'm superior in any way,...but merely has helped me to understand the needlessness of beliefs, crutches, diversions, etc.

When I surrendered to my death, and the key word is surrender, I had no belief, nor desire, that I was going to meet relatives or a Guide, or angelic beings. In all honesty, I simply lucked out in my so-called NDE. I most definitely had beliefs at the time, and am still in the process of identifying the core of others.

For myself, I feel it was my beliefs that brought me back,...beliefs which would not allow the severing of the cord that holds me bound in this dimension,...and I really did not want to come back. I had let go enough to get to this thresholdless threshold, but not enough to remain.

We can hate the truth that "experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief", but such thoughts do not make it any less true, nor changable.

Beliefs suppress, disempower, deny, disconnect, etc.,...we can think that only negative beliefs are like that, but if we look at it openly, what we say or consider to be positive beliefs, are the same diversions as the negative ones.

A "positive belief" is an oxymoron.

Vicente
:)

[a random hack]

I really can't hear people think so negatively of themselves.You say you would sentence yourself to hell for eternity..Mama mou!
Mamma mia!
Think then how strict a judge you would be if you were to sentence someone else.
Imagine how harshly this person has been judged, to judge so harshly...:)

[rich]

rich, the author of my post: [color=purple]
I also know that if I am to pass judgment on myself, I'd sentence me to hell for eternity.
I also know that if I am to pass judgment on myself, I'd sentence me to hell for eternity.

I could not sentence anyone else to damnation, for the only actions and thoughts I can pass judgment on, are my own. The sentence is harsh. How else can I wake myself up , and take myself away from my mood swings?

Thanks to Hellas-goldie and a random hack, for your replies. Shall try to be more patient with me, and try not to be as harsh on me as I appear to be. </span>

[Hellas-goldie]

Originally posted by a random hack@Dec 2 2003, 09:01 AM
Imagine how harshly this person has been judged, to judge so harshly...:)
É don't agree to this.When someone has a healthy ego and more importantly a healthy and critical way of thinking then he can be able not to judge the others in a harsh way, even if he hasbeen judged harshly.
When you have been judged harshly you usually want to be better and not become like one of your judges.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by vicente@Dec 1 2003, 11:54 AM
Beliefs suppress, disempower, deny, disconnect, etc.,...we can think that only negative beliefs are like that, but if we look at it openly, what we say or consider to be positive beliefs, are the same diversions as the negative ones. A "positive belief" is an oxymoron.
I agree with most of what you say, vicente. In relation to the above quote, however, again, I think your 'view' is 'negatively' biased. Why? Because, in my view positive beliefs , liberate, empower, affirm, and connect, etc..

It is the notion that one can have no 'beliefs' which is 'moronic', in my view. IMO, you delude yourself if and when you think that you, vicente, are operating 'objectively' (and then, of course, think that anyone who thinks and operates in a different way is doing so 'faultily' on the basis of 'beliefs' -- 'negative' or 'positive' ones. You think you are the only one who is really 'liberated', 'empowered' and 'affirming' (of THE truth) and 'connected' - when the fact is that by 'believing' that you are operating without any 'beliefs' you are actually (IMO) closing off options, distorting your power (power is ALWAYS PRESENT, no matter what), denying (THE TRUTH, which pertains equally to all, positive and negative 'believers' included, no matter what) and conceptually disconnecting yourself (from others, by placing yourself in a category that is 'above' and 'beyond' them -- it is you who is cutting yourself off from the Life that is all around you, which, like it or not, you are part of by the very fact of your being present 'amidst' others).

The fellow in the transcript is (reportedly) at least on his way to meet others (in his soul group) just as the folks doing it 'differently' are going to meet theirs -- he is just going about it more 'directly', that is all.

Again, as I said in my post in the Philosophy section, take care of yourself, bro - the way I see it, I am throwing out a rope in the hopes of giving you means whereby you can, if you so choose, still reverse your hellish psychospiritual·state-ward 'plummet'.

Have you thought of the possibility that you were 'sent' back by 'positive' ('guiding') forces despite your 'beliefs' which were what got you to the 'verge' of 'death' in the first place? This, so you could conceivably have a chance of changing your then-'destined' 'direction'?

Not that I know one way or another, bro. However, this is something which (as in the case of people who have NDE's in general) I strongly, logically (based on my understand of Life's dynamics) suspect.

David :)

[vicente]

DavidS,...Vicente does not "operate object-ively". There are no objects,...nothing exists (stands alone) out there.

In my view, it's "moronic" to suggest that beliefs "liberate, empower, affirm, and connect". How can what is not true, exhibit such qualities? They cannot, by any ratiocinative understanding.

A child should grasp this. If a belief was true, it wouldn't be a belief. That isn't to say that some beliefs may be proven to be true. But as soon as it is proven, it is no longer a belief, but true.

Beliefs are always dishonest. Because a belief is not true.

What your post is saying DavidS, is that you are not honest, subsequently, to cover up your dishonesty to yourself, you project stuff like,...ie., "being present 'amidst' others",...how can that posibly be? How can one be present with another? That's like saying there is an instant in time, or that objects exist.

What I'm talking about is not the clinging to ropes, but the letting go ropes, ie:

THE PARABLE OF THE ROPE

We are like a person holding on to a piece of rope.
He holds on for dear life, knowing that if he were to let go he would fall to his death. His parents, his teachers, and many others have told him this is so; and when he looks around he can see everyone else doing the same.

Nothing would induce him to let go.

Along comes a wise person. She knows that holding on is unnecessary, that the security it offers is illusory, and only holds you where you are. So she looks for a way to dispel his illusions and help him to be free.

She talks of real security, of deeper joy, of true happiness, of peace of mind. She tells him that he can taste this if he will just release one finger from the rope.

"One finger," thinks the man; "that"s not too much to risk for a taste of bliss." So he agrees to take this first initiation.

And he does taste greater joy, happiness, and peace of mind.

But not enough to bring lasting fulfillment.

"Even greater joy, happiness and peace can be yours," she tells him, "if you will just release a second finger."

"This," he tells himself, "is going to be more difficult. Can I do it? Will it be safe? Do I have the courage?" He hesitates, then, flexing his finger, feels how it would be to let go a little more . . . and takes the risk.

He is relieved to find he does not fall; instead he discovers greater happiness and inner peace.

But could more be possible?

"Trust me," she says. "Have I failed you so far? I know your fears, I know what your mind is telling you -- that this is crazy, that it goes against everything you have ever learnt -- but please, trust me. Look at me, am I not free? I promise you will be safe, and you will know even greater happiness and contentment."

"Do I really want happiness and inner peace so much," he wonders, "that I am prepared to risk all that I hold dear? In principle, yes; but can I be sure that I will be safe, that I will not fall?" With a little coaxing he begins to look at his fears, to consider their basis, and to explore what it is he really wants. Slowly he feels his fingers soften and relax. He knows he can do it. And he knows he must do it. It is only a matter of time until he releases his grip.

And as he does an even greater sense of peace flows through him.

He is now hanging by one finger. Reason tells him he should have fallen a finger or two ago, but he hasn"t. "Is there something wrong with holding on itself?" he asks himself. "Have I been wrong all the time?"

"This one is up to you," she says. "I can help you no further. Just remember that all your fears are groundless."

Trusting his quiet inner voice, he gradually releases the last finger.

And nothing happens.

He stays exactly where he is.

Then he realizes why. He has been standing on the ground all along.

And as he looks at the ground, knowing he need never hold on again, he finds true peace of mind.

[rich]

Vicente,

One can not believe what you say/write.

Just can't believe it. ;)

[a random hack]

É don't agree to this.When someone has a healthy ego and more importantly a healthy and critical way of thinking then he can be able not to judge the others in a harsh way, even if he hasbeen judged harshly.
When you have been judged harshly you usually want to be better and not become like one of your judges.

But how do you get a healthy ego if it is constantly judged harshly?

[Hellas-goldie]

Originally posted by a random hack@Dec 3 2003, 08:40 AM
But how do you get a healthy ego if it is constantly judged harshly?
It depends on your strength...doesn't it??

[sahyo]

"healthy ego"?

:blink:

:lol:

[rich]

Should one have a healthy ego, if one becomes egotistical? :unsure:

[Hellas-goldie]

Originally posted by asheera@Dec 3 2003, 05:11 PM
"healthy ego"?

:blink:

:lol:
You have an unhealthy one? :lol:

[sahyo]

"You have"?
"unhealthy one"?

:lol:

[Hellas-goldie]

I was always wondering how it would be to have an echo in a forum :D ..
Thank you for showing me :lol:

[sahyo]

:D hehe

[DavidS]

Originally posted by vicente@Dec 2 2003, 12:42 PM
A child should grasp this.* If a belief was true, it wouldn't be a belief.* That isn't to say that some beliefs may be proven to be true.* But as soon as it is proven, it is no longer a belief, but true.
IMO, yuo missunderstand the nature (and validity!) of 'belief'. Let me reprise an analogy in the hopes that, on the second time around, it will make some sort of impression on you.

A 'quarterback' (anyone who 'desires' something and 'attempts' to fulfill such desire, really) has to believe that there is a real non-zero possibility (i.e., 'chance') of 'completing' his/her 'pass', if he or she is 'rational' such 'belief' 'emerges' from his/her own past ex·peer·iences in making/completing such passes, or on the basis of actually witnessing others 'capably' do so.

You say: Beliefs are always dishonest. Because a belief is not true.

I say: Whether or not s/he completes a pass on any given attempt does not change the fact that such possibility IS real. Such 'belief' is therefore honest. And such 'belief' truly reflects something that (really!) lies 'potential' and may be actualized (i.e., actually 'manifested') 'in' the framework of reality - it is therefore completely 'true'.

From my point of view, your 'belief' that "Beliefs are always dishonest. Because a belief is not true." is one which indeed IS 'dishonest' and 'untrue' (as logically argued above). This doesn't apply to every 'belief', however.

Certainly not to mine, regarding communication at least, bro -- I see and expeerience the 'truth' (which gives 'rise' to my 'belief') that communication can and does 'take place' in the 'realm' of space-time) being 'actualized' in a whole lot of cases over the course of time, though of course not on every actualization-'attempt', as in the case of my attempted meaningful-communication 'pass' to you. :)

I doubt we will see eye to eye on this and related scores, however, as long as you adamantly continue to 'believe' even in the face of contary evidence paraded in front of your eyes that "Beliefs are always dishonest. Because a belief is not true."

Chacun as son gout! (sp?) - David :)

P.S. A 'belief' that something is possible in any given case, even when such possibility is acknowledged as being 'a fact', is still 'a belief'. It is not known to be a 'fact', again, in any given case, until the 'believed in' possibility is ex·peer·ientially actualized and so becomes directly 'manifest'. This is where thangs like 'hope' dynamically come into the picture. Even when and as something is actualized a trillion-trillion times, there still is no 'guarantee' that the same (sort of) actualization will recur the 'next time'. Thus 'belief' can never be completely subsumed by 'knowledge' - not in real Life situations where there are always 'multiple variables' affecting what transpires, that is!

[Lifebright]

vincente/DavidS:

I believe - lol - that beliefs hold us to a limited perception of who/what we are, in the sense of believing that something or someone is or offers us, truth/reality. If I were to apply a label (language pointer) to that which 'lies closest' to being, it would be value(s) rather than belief(s).

rich:

I was 'in' hell until I exhausted myself, just this past summer. A helluva teacher, hell. The best. How did I climb out of the fire? I forgave God/Reality for hiding 'heaven' from my sight, and then, I forgave myself for not seeing.

[sahyo]

:)

If I were to apply a label (language pointer) to that which 'lies closest' to being, it would be value(s) rather than belief(s).

if thinking"I believe" was absent, thinking "lies closest"
and "belief(s)"- "value(s)" would also absent

[sahyo]

How did I climb out of the fire?

only if thinkbelieve-imagin-'you' were in a "fire" and "climb"ed "out"

I forgave God/Reality for hiding 'heaven' from my sight, and then, I forgave myself for not seeing.

only if thinkbelieve-imagin- "God/Reality for hiding"-"myself"

[rich]

Welcome to tbv, Lifebright. Extracted this from your post:
rich:

I was 'in' hell until I exhausted myself, just this past summer. A helluva teacher, hell. The best. How did I climb out of the fire? I forgave God/Reality for hiding 'heaven' from my sight, and then, I forgave myself for not seeing.

I presume, you were in an unhappy state of mind? What exhausted you? Who, what made you unhappy? How was God/Reality hiding 'heaven' from your sight, and are you to blame for not seeing? :unsure:

[Lifebright]

Thanks for the welcome smiley, asheera, :) back!

if thinking"I believe" was absent, thinking "lies closest"
and "belief(s)"- "value(s)" would also absent

if thinking flowing from essence (transparent values? ;)), then thinking 'making' happy

only if thinkbelieve-imagin-'you' were in a "fire" and "climb"ed "out"

yes, needed to thinkbelieve-imagine-'I' was in a fire before 'I' could see no fire existed for climbing 'out of'

only if thinkbelieve-imagin- "God/Reality for hiding"-"myself"

yes, needed to thinkbelieve-imagin-God was hiding 'heaven' before I could see that heaven is me

[Lifebright]

rich, thank you for the compassionate welcome:

I presume, you were in an unhappy state of mind? What exhausted you? Who, what made you unhappy? How was God/Reality hiding 'heaven' from your sight, and are you to blame for not seeing?

What exhausted me was my lifelong struggling to comprehend the nature of Reality. No one or no thing made me unhappy, just this acute pain of 'feeling' that God/Reality was one step away from my seeing its 'face'.

Peace of mind came when I decided I was tired of the struggle (the good-evil dance I was doing to myself 'and' the world, aka, judging). Forgiveness was the 'means' of releasing the emotional tension that had pooled since my belief in struggle began.

[sahyo]

thanks lifebright :)

if thinking flowing from essence (transparent values? ;)), then thinking 'making' happy

can separate and assign "values" "transparent"nottransparent?.... ;)

yes, needed to thinkbelieve-imagine-'I' was in a fire before 'I' could see no fire existed for climbing 'out of'

so thinking"I-"in"out of" asif can separate?

yes, needed to thinkbelieve-imagin-God was hiding 'heaven' before I could see that heaven is me

can clarify "heaven"-"I"me"?

[sahyo]

What exhausted me was my lifelong struggling to comprehend the nature of Reality. No one or no thing made me unhappy, just this acute pain of 'feeling' that God/Reality was one step away from my seeing its 'face'.

Peace of mind came when I decided I was tired of the struggle (the good-evil dance I was doing to myself 'and' the world, aka, judging). Forgiveness was the 'means' of releasing the emotional tension that had pooled since my belief in struggle began.

... B)

was "decided"ing? or haps just "exhausted"ing?

is "myself"?

[Lifebright]

can separate and assign "values" "transparent"nottransparent?....

can separate if needing communicating to another, only then

so thinking"I-"in"out of" asif can separate?

yes, was thinking that, no more, hurray!

can clarify "heaven"-"I"me"?

'heaven' is knowing not separate from Reality

'I' pronoun to speak of Lifebright, her subjectivity, her telling of being

'me' is infinite Reality

[Lifebright]

was "decided"ing? or haps just "exhausted"ing?

is "myself"?

asheera likes bones picked clean :D; Lifebright enjoying being-speak with asheera

"deciding"ing not real once knowing nature of Reality, yes

"myself" not real once knowing nature of Reality, yes

however :rolleyes:

Lifebright also enjoy speaking in 'time' speak, for clarification and meat-spicing

[Lifebright]

asheera

reality dance of cause and effect, no cause no effect, except in speaking so Lifebright and other understand moving where and when and what

does asheera being-speak always, and if so, problem with world understanding?

[sahyo]

can separate if needing communicating to another, only then

ah, so using for communciating :)

is "to another"?

yes, was thinking that, no more, hurray!

are saying "thinking that" has ceased?

'heaven' is knowing not separate from Reality

"knowing"?

'I' pronoun to speak of Lifebright, her subjectivity, her telling of being

"telling" as though can be told?

'me' is infinite Reality

is "me"?

[sahyo]

asheera likes bones picked clean; Lifebright enjoying being-speak with asheera

.... :) B)

"deciding"ing not real once knowing nature of Reality, yes

haps "knowing nature of Reality" also not real? ;)

"myself" not real once knowing nature of Reality, yes

however :rolleyes:

hehe....yes "however" wrote "'me' is infinite Reality"

Lifebright also enjoy speaking in 'time' speak,

"time"?

for clarification and meat-spicing

heheeheheee

:D

[sahyo]

reality dance of cause and effect, no cause no effect, except in speaking so Lifebright and other understand moving where and when and what

still thinking"moving where and when and what"?

does asheera being-speak always, and if so, problem with world understanding?

can clarify asking?

[Lifebright]

ah, so using for communciating
is "to another"?

yes

are saying "thinking that" has ceased?

yes

"knowing"?

yes, complete 'aha!'

"telling" as though can be told?

all songs same singer-song-singing, 'different' notes

'me' is infinite Reality
is "me"?

yes

haps "knowing nature of Reality" also not real?
"time"?
still thinking"moving where and when and what"?

uncle, uncle! :lol:

can clarify asking?
curiosity, not needing response

thanking for dancing!
merrying christmasing!
:)

[sahyo]

ah, so using for communciating
is "to another"?

yes

can 'awhere' "to another"?

are saying "thinking that" has ceased?

yes

yet lifebright wrote "knowing"

"knowing"?

yes, complete 'aha!'

:) haps

"telling" as though can be told?

all songs same singer-song-singing, 'different' notes

"singer"?

"same"notsame"different"notdifferent?

'me' is infinite Reality
is "me"?

yes

lifebright thinking"me"?

haps "knowing nature of Reality" also not real?
"time"?
still thinking"moving where and when and what"?

uncle, uncle! :lol:

yes has happened read expressioning quoted

can clarify asking?
curiosity, not needing response
yet asked "does asheera being-speak always,
and if so, problem with world understanding?"

thanking for dancing!
merrying christmasing!

danc'ng

:D

[Lifebright]

yes, complete 'aha!'
:) haps

no perhaps, yes.

Wisdom is wisdom, but is expressed in many ways. To believe there is only one way to share the taste of oneness is akin to eating one flavour of ice cream or pizza until we take our last breath.

Your way is beautiful, asheera, for you. And, because it is a different flavor than mine, which is also beautiful (and no less 'true') well, we made an ice cream swirl cone together...vanilla - chocolate ice cream swirl danc'ng - mmmmmm.

[sahyo]

no perhaps, yes.

... :lol:

Wisdom is wisdom, but is expressed in many ways. To believe there is only one way to share the taste of oneness is akin to eating one flavour of ice cream or pizza until we take our last breath.

which was posted read was saying "there is only one way"?
...lifebright thinking-assuming-concluding the post was saying which wasn't

not even 'one'

we made an ice cream swirl cone together...vanilla - chocolate ice cream swirl danc'ng -

didn't thinking'about'...didn't analyze danc'ng
...didn't think"we"made"together"

;)

[rich]

:lol: One thing for sure, in this thread, on this forum, find it difficult to comprehend what anyone is talking about. Most of it is way over my head. :lol: :unsure:

Maybe that is what is known as 'emotional immaturity'.

[Lifebright]

which was posted read was saying "there is only one way"?
...lifebright thinking-assuming-concluding the post was saying which wasn't

asheera right... :D

not even 'one'

? :blink:

didn't thinking'about'...didn't analyze danc'ng
...didn't think"we"made"together"

no, that was me...or is that I? :lol:

[sahyo]

life :lol: ;) :D bright

[Trevor]

rich, I sometimes experience the same thing, but I think to admit it is a sign of maturity.