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vicente
24th November 2003, 04:34 AM
Yes, I understand and even sympathize with most, that "their" reality is not "covered" at all,...however the following is intended for those who have pondered the possibility that we may be as if asleep, and reality, although fully present, is so obscured by beliefs, conditions, individuality, etc., that it simply is not seen.

Contrary to the views of most religious beliefs, Source, the Causeless fulcrum from which nature effects its motion, what many call 'god', is not in all things,...all things rest upon Source. When this is understood, the concept of god, the idea which has produced more strife, conflict and suffering than any other, dissolves. Even the construct of a 'transcendental god' is realized for the oxymoron it is,...which is to say, that what is transcendental, such as Source, could not possibly be of creation or a creator. There cannot be conditions within the Unconditional.

An often asked question (perhaps not so much here) is how can we wake up. Fortunately, many E'Beings (Siddhartha, Tilopa, Naropa, etc) have left that answer, and always the same answer,...which is, when we let go of positive and negative, of good and bad, of useless happiness and useless suffering. In other words, when we move to the middle of duality's seesaw, thus Stilling ourselfs over the fulcrum of Source.

From my observations, neither negative, nor positive emotions are natural, which is to say, they do not exist at the point of the fulcrum. True Emotion is not a generated behavior arising through conditioned, belief driven reflex response-reactions. Real Emotion, from the point of view of Source, is neither positive nor negative,...it, like Real Love, has no opposite. Of course, The Collective considers, and even cherishes, many of these mechanical responses, both positive and negative, as expressions of proper humanness.

If this sounds confusing, that is, what's the difference between a Real and "belief-driven" emotion, simply follow the emotion back to its origin. If it originated from the physical body, its physical. If it originated from the mental body, its mental. Both positive and negative physical/mental emotions arise from beliefs, conditions, individual judgement, etc., such as anger, jealousy, envy, devotion, diversion of useless happiness, and are fed and sustained by these expressions.

Source is not nature, but Source has dominion over nature, which is why E'Beings have been said to seemingly possess superpowers, like Tilopa transmutating bones into a flying fish, or persons like Apollonious who have raised the dead and healing the sick. Such dominion over nature, as in the 30's film 'The Man who could perform Miracles', based on a HG Wells book, who commanded bullets to stop before him, is accessible to everyone. It merely takes our relocation to the middle of the seesaw. The catch is, we cannot realize the middle, the balance in life, until we let go of the beliefs we cling to for our identity.

Vicente
:)

sahyo
24th November 2003, 04:49 AM
Source is not nature



but Source has dominion over nature


can separate which you're calling "So"nature"urce", vicente?

rich
24th November 2003, 09:08 AM
asheera posted:

QUOTE

Source is not nature



QUOTE

but Source has dominion over nature



can separate which you're calling "So"nature"urce", vicente?


asheera, separating "so" from "so" "urce" is ok, but went through extensive computer search of "urce", and could not find any word for those letters. It looks like separation from source is not possible, thus, your post can not stand on its own 2 feet. Sorry, but that is the way it is. :blink: ;)

DavidS
25th November 2003, 10:51 AM
[QUOTE=rich,Nov 23 2003, 08:08 PM]
asheera posted:
[quoting vicente {a} ] Source is not nature

[quoting vicente {B} ] but Source has dominion over nature

[then asheera question-commented] can separate which you're calling "So"nature"urce", vicente?

richie then wrote:
asheera, separating "so" from "so" "urce" is ok, but went through extensive computer search of "urce", and could not find any word for those letters. It looks like separation from source is not possible, thus, your post can not stand on its own 2 feet. Sorry, but that is the way it is. :blink: ;)

David now question-comments: which 'you' you referring to when you say "your post", richie? Looks to me like asheera was saying the equivalent of "It looks like separation from source is not possible, thus, your post can not stand on its own 2 feet." to vicente in the first place.

Which is on second? :lol:

rich
25th November 2003, 11:34 AM
richie then wrote:
asheera, separating "so" from "so" "urce" is ok, but went through extensive computer search of "urce", and could not find any word for those letters. It looks like separation from source is not possible, thus, your post can not stand on its own 2 feet. Sorry, but that is the way it is.

David now question-comments: which 'you' you referring to when you say "your post", richie? Looks to me like asheera was saying the equivalent of "It looks like separation from source is not possible, thus, your post can not stand on its own 2 feet." to vicente in the first place.

Which is on second?



Confusingly stated i must admit. Was trying to say that the wordsource can not be separated, in the manner which asheera posted, for there is no such word as urce. Never gave much thought to which vicente stated:

Source is not nature, but Source has dominion over nature, which is why E'Beings have been said to seemingly possess superpowers, like Tilopa transmutating bones into a flying fish, or persons like Apollonious who have raised the dead and healing the sick.

Vicente, didn't Jesus also raise the dead and healed the sick as you mentioned Apollonious did? Never heard about Apollonious before, so. :huh: :o

DavidS
25th November 2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by vicente@Nov 23 2003, 03:34 PM; note: the David mistaken-identity has used its spirit-liberty to underscore and colorize certain words in the quote:

{a} Contrary to the views of most religious beliefs, Source, the Causeless fulcrum from which nature effects its motion, what many call 'god', is not in all things,...all things rest upon Source. ... which is to say, that what is transcendental, such as Source, could not possibly be of creation or a creator.

{b} Source is not nature, but Source has dominion over nature, which is why E'Beings have been said to seemingly possess superpowers, like Tilopa transmutating bones into a flying fish, ...
Hey vicente, Jesus also has been said to have seemingly possessed superpowers, reportedly also having 'done' several 'fishy' 'transmutational' miracles ;) , this even though be 'believed' the 'truth' was configured differently than you propose is the case. At least he is remembered as having said things like "I am in the Father, and the Father is in me" (I hope you will join me in 'believing' that this is what he authentically thought was the case, and that he wasn't just telling people what he thought they wanted to hear, or what they 'needed' to hear, etc.)

I sympathize with your wanting to get rid of any kind of 'God'-concept and notion of there being some sort of 'God'-identity-association with Life given the fact that you 'see' that people image·in·natively thinking along such lines has resulted in great 'evils' being perpetrated and justified by people (IOW, you 'realistically' image·in that if only people didn't image·in·natively think along such lines, such 'evils' could/would not be 'justified' and 'perpetrated' by people, that 'the problem' lies in the falsehood and deficiencies of the concept and associated notions, and that if people 'believed' otherwise - i.e., along the lines you propose - they (the people) couldn't/wouldn't be able to 'justify' and 'perpetrate' such 'evils').

However, let me ask you, do you really 'believe' (I mean, does it really strike you as a logical and reasonable conclusion) that whether some 'unconditional' 'thang', like what you refer to as 'the Source', is image·in·natively 'located' 'in', 'under', 'around', 'above', or 'beyond' the realm of Living Beings, 'you', 'me', and 'others' as such are norm·ally considered to 'be' ... let me reiterate, upon reconsidering the matter as I ask you to now do, do you really 'believe' that 'assigning' any of the mentioned 'locations' or 'positions' relative to us critters (represented by words such as in, under, around, above, or beyond) will in and of itself significantly preclude and/or prevent 'mass'-idiotic perpetration and justification of the kinds of 'evils' you emotionally, "There's the bad guy, go get him folks," tar, feather, and string-up scape-goat (IMO) the 'God'-concept and 'Godly-identity'-notion with?

This is not meant as an 'argument' - just a statement, deriving from the fact that I definitely don't 'believe' so, that it looks to me like 'you' (hence 'your' perceptions and concept-bashing perpetrations and justifications) are negative-emotion driven, bro.

Sincerely - David

rich
25th November 2003, 10:54 PM
Have not read all in this URL, it is very long, but am posting it as an excellent source of information for this thread.

My Webpage :) (http://tridaho.com/kuhn/abkindia.htm)

DavidS
26th November 2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by rich@Nov 25 2003, 09:54 AM
Have not read all in this URL, it is very long, but am posting it as an excellent source of information for this thread.
Hi richie -

Yes indeedy, it is very looooong, but a quick perusal of the first dozen pages-equivalent leads me to concur that it is an excellent 'source' conduit for discernment pertaining to the 'issues' raised in this thread.

Backing up, by 'erasing' the kuhn.htm part, etc. and exploring the site from the home page, leads to quite an impressive array of information and 'informed attitude'. This would certainly qualify for my Top 10 list of websites!

Thanks for the 'lead', Richie, A.L.

(A.L. = August Librarian 'degree' conferred upon thee by yours truly - 'August' in it's 'titular' sense, not referring to the 'month', obviously)

:lol:

rich
27th November 2003, 10:22 AM
:D Thank you David, for the honorary title of
August Librarian. ;)

Hope that this honor will not make my head swell. :)