Please Help Answer My Questions On Meditation

[thirst4sun]

I recently was introduced to new ideas to expand my awareness. I am a beginner and I used a Guided Meditation Cd titled, Cleansing Karma. I cried during the session. My questions about this are:
Is it common to cry during meditation??? What does crying during meditation mean???
Thank you for your Wisdom!

[a random hack]

have cried during meditation, but don't know or care what it means, guess has something to do with release of emotional blockage... ::)

[DavidS]

Originally posted by thirst4sun@Nov 10 2003, 10:17 PM
Is it common to cry during meditation? What does crying during meditation mean?
From what I have seen, heard and read, it is not at all uncommon for people to 'spontaneously' cry during meditation. Also, during things like 'deep massage'. Also, when experiencing 'deep' joy when 'struck' by the beauty' of 'nature', etc. or 'touched by 'deep' intimacy. Something about ex·peer·iencing 'goodness' (for want of better words) seems to 'trigger' the 'release' of 'old' (but still 'residual') pain, sadness, etc. (A slightly 'funny' aside: My first wife and I were relatively young when we married, and, as you may imagine, I was totally flumoxed when she would burst into tears after having an orgasm!)

I agree with hack that it is not particularly important for one to 'know' what the tears 'mean' - the 'release' of the old-but-still-residual pain or sadness is what is most important.

At some point, one may become aware of memories etc. which may provide clues to what the pain and sadness were about. One may then be able to 'use' this 'info' to augment a self-directed course of 'healing' or 'clearing', depending on how mentally oriented one is. But the emotional 'healing' and/or 'clearing' is what is most important; 'mentation' is not absolutely necessary in that regard.

P.S. I have, in the past, sometimes woken up in the middle of the might 'sobbing' my heart out, sometimes with, but also often without, some/any sort of 'sad' or 'painful' 'dream'-recollection.

P.P.S. As you probably know, such 'sobbing' may also take place in the context of someones being reunited with someone 'special', itself a very long-desired and happy occasion.

[a random hack]

(A slightly 'funny' aside: My first wife and I were relatively young when we married, and, as you may imagine, I was totally flumoxed when she would burst into tears after having an orgasm!)

'totally flumoxed' describes that well :) funny, they never even went close to touching on emotion in sex ed class in high school.....

[shifu]

Oriental Meditation is i guess all have the same pattern or process. I had some experience of that sort. Some Asian Catholics had developed or adapted some old techniques in meditation. Why cried? Well, there maybe a lot of explanation and IMO it is because of the feeling of being atoned or the attunement of ones disposition, being or soul. Meditation leads us the getting in touch with the inner most/core of the being. And once reach its peak, knew the being and thus, acquainted with it, thus eventually cries.

There is one opinion also. Tears are cleansing of the soul. There is nothing wrong when one cries. But just don’t keep crying.

shifu :)

[DavidS]

Hey there again, thirsty4sun;

Here's another slice of the truth-pie pertaining to the 'topic' of 'meditation' (from John-MacEnulty-today's Thought for the Day zen-mind-heart-flower-arrangement):
__________________

Strange to say it this way, but meditation is about more than spiritual enlightenment. Or maybe it would be better to say that meditation can be about a lot less than spiritual enlightenment.

Meditation is a practical tool for sanity, logic, and order in our lives.

Meditation is about simple calming and clarity.

It is a variation, an extension of the old idea of counting to ten in order to calm down, rather than losing our temper suddenly.

There is a constant insanity in many of us, a madness that can provoke us to irrational attitudes and behavior. The personal therapeutic idea is to allow these storms to pass without inflicting damage on ourselves or the world. Meditation is a way to do that.

When I am overwhelmed I stop and close my eyes, take a deep breath and then let it out and follow my breath into the infinite, relaxing, letting go.

It only takes a few seconds to do this. You may want to stay there a minute or two. Well, once you get there you WILL want to stay a couple of minutes at least.

It is a tool, though, a practical tool for coping with life, how to get back to sanity when you feel like you may explode.

The divine is always here, underlying everything, but honestly, in an emergency emotional situation, the divine may not be what we are concerned about. We don't want esoteric, we want practical, grounded relief now.

And meditation is the perfect tool for that. I probably meditate like that twenty or thirty times a day, not just for crises, but for everything, development of ideas, calming, perspective, appreciation of beauty, whatever.

Then the divine begins to be felt as a component of everyday consciousness, not just a pathway to enlightenment, but the way of inner peace right now.
_____________

Emanations
Copyright © 2003 by John MacEnulty
12/05/2003, St. Louis, MO

Web site address:
http://Emanations.net/

[sahyo]

'meditating' not "about", not reason'goal'

[rich]

@ times, wish that I could breakdown and have one good cry;

but on the other hand, one should be careful of what wished for. :unsure:

[sahyo]

hu<span style='color:gray'>richggg</span>

Tear-filled eyes are capable of seeing truth.

-osho

[rich]

thankasheeraing.
hug

[sahyo]

thankriching

[rich]

wink2asheera ;)
ing :)

[DavidS]

'meditating' not "about", not reason'goal'
Is 'true' by de·finite·ion in asheera·mind·heart·constellation·'geometry'-space where only such 'nots' are 'the case'.

Strange to say it this way, but meditation is about more than spiritual enlightenment. Or maybe it would be better to say that meditation can be about a lot less than spiritual enlightenment.

Meditation is a practical tool for sanity, logic, and order in our lives.

Meditation is about simple calming and clarity.

It is a variation, an extension of the old idea of counting to ten in order to calm down, rather than losing our temper suddenly.
Is 'true', because his mode of de·finite·ion is not not-based, in JohnMacEnulty·mind·heart·constellation·'geometry'-space where such thangs are possible and considered desirable (at the 'right' place and 'right' time) as well.

Talk about each of us being able (to a certain extent at least) to 'create' our 'own' 'reality'! Clearly, some people prefer to have more toys-'tools' which 'do' different kinds of thangs (or not!) in their Life-playgrounds than others.

I wonder if there's any limit to the kinds of 'games' which can be in·vent·ed in this regard? Whatever be the case, ain't even the thought of such possibilities wonderfulfilling?
:lol:

[DavidS]

More from John MacEnulty, pertaining to 'pain' and the 'meditation' 'process' and (or 'non-process' as some may prefer to think-n-speak of 'it'), which also includes reference to certain 'non' thangs, showing the fella is also capable of 'integrating' conceptual 'opposites'. :lol:

Enjoy - David
============
An interesting thing about major healing is major pain.

The Sufi greets pain with joy and excitement. Some new lesson is in the process of revealing itself. I am about to see a wonder.

But the Sufi is full time on the path, undistracted. His pain leaves him prostrate with humility and acute awareness. He knows it is all God.

I have not gotten to that point yet. I still experience pain as an obstacle, not a doorway, though I may say I know otherwise.

I do know that growth can be painful and I know that I have so far managed to get through the pain in my life, into the joy and love of letting go, transcending what has happened.

It has been remarkably consistent this healing process, consistent enough to make me believe that it will continue to happen. That is faith.

In the times of clarity of peace and love there is no faith, only knowing, feeling, experiencing.

The paradox is that the knowing could also be called not knowing. The not knowing is absolutely certain though. The not knowing is humility.

There is love and trust in that not knowing.

Emotional, spiritual, psychological pain always reveals something deeper inside that we had not dealt with. Jung said that what we have not dealt with within ourselves would be dealt to us by fate.

The very life process could be said to be for the purpose of offering those lessons we have not yet dealt with within.

So it would seem that meditation can be the doorway for processing things before they appear before us as the fateful lesson.

What a blessing, the trouble a spiritual life can save. And it's the doorway to beauty, truth, and love.
-------------

Emanations
Copyright © 2003 by John MacEnulty
12/08/2003, St. Louis, MO

Web site address:
http://Emanations.net/

[stillmind]

Originally posted by DavidS@Dec 5 2003, 10:04 PM
Here's another slice of the truth-pie pertaining to the 'topic' of 'meditation' (from John-MacEnulty-today's Thought for the Day zen-mind-heart-flower-arrangement):
__________________

Strange to say it this way, but meditation is about more than spiritual enlightenment. Or maybe it would be better to say that meditation can be about a lot less than spiritual enlightenment.

Meditation is a practical tool for sanity, logic, and order in our lives.

Meditation is about simple calming and clarity.

It is a variation, an extension of the old idea of counting to ten in order to calm down, rather than losing our temper suddenly.

There is a constant insanity in many of us, a madness that can provoke us to irrational attitudes and behavior. The personal therapeutic idea is to allow these storms to pass without inflicting damage on ourselves or the world. Meditation is a way to do that.

When I am overwhelmed I stop and close my eyes, take a deep breath and then let it out and follow my breath into the infinite, relaxing, letting go.

It only takes a few seconds to do this. You may want to stay there a minute or two. Well, once you get there you WILL want to stay a couple of minutes at least.

It is a tool, though, a practical tool for coping with life, how to get back to sanity when you feel like you may explode.

The divine is always here, underlying everything, but honestly, in an emergency emotional situation, the divine may not be what we are concerned about. We don't want esoteric, we want practical, grounded relief now.

And meditation is the perfect tool for that. I probably meditate like that twenty or thirty times a day, not just for crises, but for everything, development of ideas, calming, perspective, appreciation of beauty, whatever.

Then the divine begins to be felt as a component of everyday consciousness, not just a pathway to enlightenment, but the way of inner peace right now.
_____________

Emanations
Copyright © 2003 by John MacEnulty
12/05/2003, St. Louis, MO

Web site address:
http://Emanations.net/
Again,there are many mis-conceptions about meditations.I can attest to that since I've been a buddhist for years. One thing is for sure,there are no guarantees that anything will happen (aside wishful thinking).

Allow me to recommend two items,one is an excellent book,the other, well, you'll see...

1) 'Instinct for Freedom' by Alan Clements

2) http://www.well.com/user/jct/


Best Regards,

stillmind

[sahyo]

2) http://www.well.com/user/jct/


:D

[DavidS]

Originally posted by stillmind@Dec 13 2003, 11:22 AM
2) http://www.well.com/user/jct/
Excellent site, stillmind. I've been alerted to as well as appreciated U.G.K's 'wisdom' before.

There still a 'matter of interpretation' or maybe it's just a 'matter of image·in·ation' worth considering in relation to statements like "When the movement in the direction of becoming something other than what you are isn't there any more, you are not in conflict with yourself." which is worth considering, I think.

It boils down to the facts that there are differences in what people image·in's and 'believe' that "you are" thang referenced actually is in reality. What if what "you are" is is somethang that is 'innately' Intelligent, Curious, Creative, and both Desirous and Capable of Self-Evolution (into some 'future' else-different psychospiritual configuration than one 'has' or 'is' at present)?

First image·in what a tree-'being' is like. It's entire 'evolutionary' or 'growth' design is 'innately' 'in' the seed, 'in' the sappling, 'in' all of its 'forms', all the way up to the fruiting-n-seeding 'mature' tree. It cannot be anything else, short of some 'mutational' event 'happening' to it, maybe. For it to 'desire' and 'aim' to be something 'different' or 'else', would indeed in that case mean that is was in some sense 'in conflict' with what it is.

Now, if human-'beings' are just like tree-'beings' in the above sense, then the same 'wisdom' would apply.

However, if human-'beings' are 'innately' different from tree-'beings' in some life-dynamic·ally-significant way (that is, if, humans have different kinds of 'souls' than tree-'beings'), that would not, at least not necessarily, be the case, and the same 'wisdom' would not, at least not necessarily, apply.

It is my considered opinion, based on my observations and experiences, that human-'beings' are 'innately' 'gifted' with the capacity for image·in·ing what it would be like to have a 'different' past-present-n-future life-pattern than one 'has' or 'is' in one's present mental-n-emotional 'configuration', that they have a degree of 'free will' to flow into 'patterns' which are significantly different than then 'are' 'in' the past-present-n-future embedded 'moment', and that they can, if they so desire and choose ('utilizing' their 'free will') 'masterfully' 'craft' their own 'self'-pattern-evolution. (I neverthless agree that it is 'important' that one learn to 'peacefully' accept and embrace one's present 'pattern' - it is the 'place' or 'base' from which one ever-begins any new becoming venture, and therefore it is 'unwise' to conflictually 'hate' and/or 'rail' against that by 'seeing' or 'feeling' that it is 'defective' or 'deficient'.)

IOW, it is my considered opinion that, in this regard, human-'beings' are not like tree- or other creature-ly 'beings', 'dogged' by with 'problematically' hyperactive mental-imagination-n-emotional-desire-n-aversion 'systems'. The fact, IMO, is that above and beyond that, we are creative-creator-'beings' in the process of learning to 'master' our own 'creative' ('hellishly' so if, but only if, 'unwisely' miss-direct·ed) mental-n-emotional energies.

Assuming my perception-based-opinion is 'accurate' in this regard, it would be 'foolish' for human-'beings' to simply choose to 'behave' like tree-'beings', at least it wouldn't necessarily be 'wise'. Possibly the lives of those who choose to do so would be more 'peaceful', but, in my considered opinion, in doing so they would be 'denying' or 'rejecting' their own 'innate' 'gifts'.

Hey, if nothing else, some of us enjoy a bit of excitement, image·in·ing (potentially attainable) 'goals', and 'aiming' for them. Every kind of aspiring (to play-do 'better') athlete and artists of every creative stripe do this all the time. In this regard, they are not necessarily at least 'in conflict' with who they 'are'. As a matter of fact, if they adopted the kind of approach which the U.G.K quote above is generally used to 'advocate' and 'logically justify' they would be bored out of their gourds, dude.

As I've said here before, though there certainly are similarities between all life- or energy- 'forms' on many levels, it is quite inappropriate to assume that the life-dynamics of humans are just like the life-dynamics of other 'natural' creatures, like rats and bats. The 'science' of Behavioral Psychology is very limited, in terms of its 'applications', because it disregards the findings in the 'science' of fields like Cognitive Psychology which (the latter) deals with and is applicably pertinent to creatures with 'higher' intelligence' functions, for instance.

I appreciate the elegance and appeal of philosophical stances (they really can't be regarded as 'approaches') like U.G.K.'s.

In this regard (that is, in regards the fact that there are many different philosphical stances and approaches to 'the human condition', or what 'you are'), my attitude is "Chacun a son gout," (i.e., 'each to his/her own 'taste'). And I recommend, because it is 'wisdom' in 'my' 'view' (stated above), that you and/or others don't undiscriminately assume your (or U.G.K. type) 'gout' is or should be my 'gout' or the 'gout' of anyone, let alone everyone, else, just because you assume that that is 'innately' appropriate, based on what you assume-think everone's "you are" really is and isn't.

I very much appreciate what you 'suggest' as a well-meant 'offering', however; am just declining it by saying that I have 'savored' such morsels before and 'discovered' that my 'innate' 'gout' does not find that appealing or satsifying.

Where my 'approach' or 'taste' differs from such 'stances' and 'tastes' is that I have found that I have (and so think-n-believe that humans in general have), a, potentially at least, uniquely 'aspiring' and 'creative' soul. I have come to think-n-believe that what 'I am' and what other humans 'are' is not just a bunch of 'patterns' which are best 'simply' 'peacefully' (in the 'passive' sense) accommodated to.

Vive la becoming-adventure·some difference!

Sincerely - David :)

[thirst4sun]

Thank you Asheera for the site :)

[sahyo]

2) http://www.well.com/user/jct/


Best Regards,

stillmind


thanking thirst4sun :)

[DavidS]

More muse·ings with 'meditation' as the 'focal' topic:

Subj: Thought for the Day 1/31/04
Date: 1/31/2004 6:45:22 AM US Mountain Standard Time
From: eman8tions@yahoo.com (John MacEnulty)
Reply-to: eman8tions-owner@yahoogroups.com
To: eman8tions@yahoogroups.com

Meditation is more than a technique practiced to gain an end. It is a
way of life, a way of viewing and experiencing. It is a state of
wonder, not questioning.

We begin to contemplate as a response to things that happen in our
lives as meditation becomes the basic tool of living well and
beautifully.

In the beginning though, meditation can be difficult, a challenge,
frustrating in the simplicity of sitting still, doing nothing. It
seems we should be doing something, acting, doing.

The paradox is that we are doing something. What we are doing is not
doing. And that is a big doing indeed!

Doing not doing.

It is not a means to an end. It is the end itself. The very state of
doing not doing means letting go. That state of being is, itself,
what we are seeking.

Meditation becomes itself, not just a means or a tool.

Now I just look forward to the meditation itself, not the result of
it.

That there are results is not in doubt. Many things change as a
result of meditation, the least of which is the reduction of blood
pressure, heart rate, reduction of self induced stress. There are
spiritual and psychological changes that come about, too. In addition
to the physical healing there is emotional healing also.

But the very state of not doing is the thing. That is the stillness.
We cease to be driven. Now we simply go into the moment, allow its
fullness within. This is the real ultimate experience. Once we begin
to go to the still point the game is done and beautiful reality
begins.

It is strange to say it this way, but the searching is over.

Now we can just enjoy.
==========

Emanations
Copyright © 2003 by John MacEnulty
1/31/2004, St. Louis, MO

Please feel free to forward Emanations
to anyone you think will enjoy it or benefit from it.
If you are receiving Emanations as a forward
please feel free to subscribe for yourself.

Web site address: http://Emanations.net/

[beesting42]

Meditation is practice. You do it by stilling the mind. Don't worry about crying... your place in the universe is not the issue. Still the mind.

[NeverMind]

meditation was my second favorite part of my yoga class. So freeing.

[beesting42]

what was your first?

[sahyo]

Meditation is practice. You do it by stilling the mind. Don't worry about crying... your place in the universe is not the issue. Still the mind.



Sri Ashtavakra Gita
The Song of Ashtavakra:

The cause of your bondage is that you are still resorting to stilling the mind. 1.15


well seeming "your bondage" anyway ;)

[thirst4sun]

Stillmind.............Since you have been a buddhist for years, let me ask you your opinion on meditation. Is mediation a tool that you use??? :huh:

[thirst4sun]

Nevermind..............Well if meditation was your second favorite part of ypga class what is your first? :huh:

[thirst4sun]

Originally posted by beesting42@Jul 4 2004, 12:18 PM
Meditation is practice. You do it by stilling the mind. Don't worry about crying... your place in the universe is not the issue. Still the mind.
:tao: