Zen Buddhism

[rich]

Please open this link for a reading, re: The Equinox.


http://www.dailyzen.com/zen/zen_reading0309.html

[a random hack]

:lol:
That's a wonderful site, rich :)

[...]

From that link: I vow to save all sentient beings, even though there are no separate individualities!

So much has been said about this subject Rich and the article intertwines above realisation with compassion. Posting that link must mean it struck a chord with you? How do you harmonize this?

[rich]

Originally posted by ...@Sep 24 2003, 05:35 PM
From that link: I vow to save all sentient beings, even though there are no separate individualities!

So much has been said about this subject Rich and the article intertwines above realisation with compassion. Posting that link must mean it struck a chord with you? How do you harmonize this?
...,
[/QUOTE]
From that link: I vow to save all sentient beings, even though there are no separate individualities!

So much has been said about this subject Rich and the article intertwines above realisation with compassion. Posting that link must mean it struck a chord with you? How do you harmonize this? [QUOTE]

All of us, are beings which undergo suffering to some degree.
All of us, have good and bad days.
It is easy to say, not easy to realize, that all suffering is intertwined. By not making judgments of others may be a way
to harmonize and understand whast was written in the link.

How would you harmonize, that which was written in the link?

[...]

All of us, are beings which undergo suffering to some degree.
All of us, have good and bad days.
It is easy to say, not easy to realize, that all suffering is intertwined. By not making judgments of others may be a way
to harmonize and understand whast was written in the link.

How would you harmonize, that which was written in the link?

There's no need here to harmonize what was written for it doesn't express a paradox. Could you explain what "even though there are no separate individualities!" means to you in respect to compassion? How can there be suffering when there are no separate individualities?

[a random hack]

So how many sentient beings are there?

[rich]

How many?

Look it up on the Internet, i.e.:World Population .

Six-Billion, Three-hundred and forteen million, is the latest estimate.

Enough to keep all of us busy, for a very long time. B)

[a random hack]

Six-Billion, Three-hundred and forteen million sentient beings, and no seperate individuals?

[rich]

Originally posted by a random hack@Sep 26 2003, 03:02 PM
Six-Billion, Three-hundred and forteen million sentient beings, and no seperate individuals?
Random,

How do i know if they are married/ [together] or unmarried, divorced or single, [separate]?

Since you asked the question, you could look the statistics as well as i can? :huh: ? :unsure:

[...]

..rich, woosh again?

So how many sentient beings are there?

How divided do you percieve reality to be?

Six-Billion, Three-hundred and forteen million sentient beings, and no seperate individuals?

All seemingly parts of one and the same...

[rich]

...., All seemingly parts of one and the same...

2 questions for ... ,

How many pov's are there? :unsure:

Seemingly one and the same? :unsure:

[a random hack]

<tries to think of something to say without sounding stupid....>

Oh well :)

Six-Billion, Three-hundred and forteen million sentient beings, and no seperate individuals?

All seemingly parts of one and the same...


How divided do you percieve reality to be?

In this particular instance, 6,314,000,000 divisions.
In 'reality', infinitely divisable... :)
In 'reality', indivisable... :)
In reality, no 'reality'?
:unsure:

[...]

How many pov's are there?

An indefenit number...

Seemingly one and the same?

No, not seemingly...

[...]

In reality, no 'reality'?

What is considered reality is the unseparable dancing partner of perception...

[sahyo]

What is considered reality is the unseparable dancing partner of perception...

only asif seemingly

[...]

only asif seemingly

Ofcourse...

[rich]

In order to "save all sentient beings" , we must forget our individual problems, and replace our personal problems with the problemsof others. :mellow:
That should be our prime concern. By so doing, we are putting our compassion for others above ourself. :huh:
I t is not easy to do, but it is something that we should do. :)

[...]

..are you your brothers keeper, rich?

[DavidS]

Hi rich,

In order to "save all sentient beings", . . .

OK, but in any 'attempt' in that 'direction', let's keep sight of fact that the "free-will" operating-system "setting" is such that one "Can't 'save' a 'fool' from the consequences of his/her 'folly'."

we must forget our individual problems, and replace our personal problems with the problems of others. :mellow:

This is a very questionable pro·position, I think, richie. The the way the 'system' is set up, you (anyone) can't 'swim' for anyone else and you (anyone, everyone) is 'limited' in terms of how long and how far you can 'carry' someone else along. Everyone ultimately must 'swim' or 'sink' on the basis of their 'own' 'choices' and consequent 'learnings'.

If you accept that as a 'valid' notion, it follows that the best thing for one to do is to first attend to and resolve one's own 'problems'. Then (and only then, IMO), the 'platform' of one's 'own' 'well-being', one will be in a 'position' to devote personal-life-'overflowing' energy to 'stimulate' and possibly even 'facilitate' the growth-n-development of someone else's personal-problem-solving ('response'-)abilities, such that they, too, are able to 'swim' around "on their own 'steam'," so to speak.

And one has to be 'selective' in deciding who has what it takes to be 'stimulated' and 'facilitated' -- those showing 'potential' in the response-ability arena. Otherwise, if and as you simply 'take on' other people's 'problems', your own (and any cohort's) 'foatation-raft' will ultimately be 'sunk' by the (growing) 'weight' of the (increasing number of ) 'problems' you take 'on board'.

That should be our prime concern.

The logic above suggests it should be a 'secondary' concern (this is not meant to imply it is of 'negligible' importance, by any means).

It may be intgeresting for some to note that this pro·position is 'in line' with the [u]notion, held in high regard in certain circles at least in times past, that "God's" first, and therefore 'most important' 'commandment' is to 'honor' one's 'own' "God", putting 'honoring' planet-cohabiting neighbors is second to that. For example, as stated in. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:30-31)

By so doing, we are putting our compassion for others above ourself. :huh:

Based on my personal experience, in my estimation, that's a kind "putting the cart before the horse" 'mistake', which, ultimately, in due course, results in one's 'waking up' to find one's 'raft' sinking in a deep-do-do-layered ditch-hole. Statements like "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not." now 'ring' a quite cautionary 'bell' in my ear - done played more than enough having to 'climb' out of a sh*t-hole 'acts' or 'roles' in my life so as to be very wary of any possible skid-down-a-slippery-slope-chanelled repetition.

It is not easy to do, but it is something that we should do. :)

Going 'against' life-flow principles is always exhausting. IMO, that's not something anyone 'should' do.

I have nothing 'against' compassion, richie. As a matter of fact I am very much 'for' it. But I think it's important, for reasons I hope I've helped make more 'obvious', that one's 'compassionateness' be 'guided' by wisdom, not simply 'driven' by aversion-to-seeing-others-suffer-and-joy-at seeing-others-happy sentiment.

At first 'Tough'-Love 'stinks', I know, not just to lovees but to lovers as well. It's an 'acquired' 'taste', as in the case of 'stinky' cheeses, methinks.

David :)

[thirst4sun]

Thank you for your wisdom!!!

[sonrisa]

6 billion, 314 million- & that's not counting apes, is it? I mean any being who's computer literate &/or can do sign language sounds sentient to me. Then there's the whales & dolphins....

[rich]

David S,

Sorry that I never replied to your post, and ...'s too.["save all sentient beings", . . .]
Allow me to ask you folks a question too. Isn't that a person with a Buddha nature would do, or at least, try to do, ie: "save all sentient beings", . . .? ICBW, if so, please correct my misinterpretation. :unsure:

[DavidS]

Originally posted by rich@Nov 11 2003, 10:14 AM
Allow me to ask you folks a question too. Isn't that a person with a Buddha nature would do, or at least, try to do, ie: "save all sentient beings", . . .? ICBW, if so, please correct my misinterpretation. :unsure:
To think that people 'need' and (therefore, in a sense at least) 'should' be "saved" from, let's say, psychospiritual 'sinking' and 'drowning' is a very popular notion in both Xian and Buddhist circles. Naturally, once 'accepted' as an 'axiom', this becomes associated with and attributed to things like Buddha-nature or Christ-nature (i.e., whatever is conceived of as being the 'highest' or most 'essential' 'nature' of Being).

However, using the being-surrounded-by-and-immersed-in-'water' analogy, the 'truth' is that 'pulling' someone out of their 'troubles' or giving them a formulaic 'way' whereby they can get out of of these, is a temporary 'solution' at best. Much 'better' is letting them 'know' and/or reinforcing their 'knowing' that the human spirit naturally floats (if it has 'faith' that it will 'naturally do so in due course and doesn't 'thrash around' and 'struggle' to the point of exhaustion).

Instead of 'teaching' people that they (and then others) 'need' to be 'saved' from a 'watery grave', much better IMO to 'teach' them that they 'naturally' float (usually direct expeerience in this regard is the best 'teacher') and 'coach' them so they 'learn' to swim -- then they'll be/do jes fine no matter how 'deep' the 'water' gets.

In the former case (of those who are 'pulled' or 'helped' to get out of the 'water'), they will be in the same predicament the next time the water rises, because of a personal- or social- breakdown-'flood' or some similar event (which, IMO, since "all is dukka-change", is periodically bound to eventually 'happen').

Now 'teaching' or 'coaching' someone so they 'learn' to 'swim' well (letting the water 'buoy' them up and moving without 'struggling', etc.) may also be regarded as (potentially at least) 'saving' them in some sense, I suppose. But that is a very different kind of 'saving' than the kind that is usually thought of by Xians and Buddhist who seek to 'be saved' and/or to 'save' others.

IMO, Buddha-nature and Christ-nature is best 'interpreted' as involving/including or being 'based' on/in wisdom as much as love. Parents who think their function is to completely 'protect' and/or 'ensure' their children's 'development' may (and often do) 'serve' to place them at greater 'risk' when and as things get rough/tough and they find themselves 'on their own' later on, as you may imagine. It is best to 'jettison' the whole concept of people ('children' included) 'needing' to be 'saved' and think in terms of simply 'loving' and passing on one's 'wisdom' in an 'empowering' way when and where there are others who seek and able to utilize the same, IMO.

At least, that's what I have come to 'believe' based on my observations and experiences -- including those garnered in the 16-year course of first 'studying' to be and then 'practicing' being a 'psychological' therapist-n-counselor, as well as those garnered in the course of being a parent and step-parent.

David :)

[thirst4sun]

Great site. :D

[...]

Isn't that a person with a Buddha nature would do, or at least, try to do, ie: "save all sentient beings", . . .?

There is no-one without Buddha nature...

[sahyo]

no 'one' with"without"

[rich]

no 'one' with"without"
Buddha nature is like having,
Enlightenment's Key :)

[sahyo]

><An office manager was given the task of hiring an individual, to fill a job opening. After sorting through a stack of resumes he found four people who were equally qualified. He decided to call the four in and ask them only one question. Their answer would determine which of them would get the job.

The day came and as the four sat around the conference room table the interviewer asked, "What is the fastest thing you know of?"

Acknowledging the first man on his right, the man replied, "A THOUGHT. It just pops into your head. There's no warning that it's on the way; it's just there. A thought is the fastest thing I know of." "That's very good!" replied the interviewer.

"And now you sir?" he asked the second man. "Hmm....let me see. A blink! It comes and goes and you don't know that it ever happened. A BLINK is the fastest thing I know of." "Excellent!" said the interviewer. "The blink of an eye... that's a very popular cliche for speed."

He then turned to the third man who was contemplating his reply. "Well, out at my dad's ranch, you step out of the house and on the wall there's a light switch. When you flip that switch, way out across the pasture the light in the barn comes on in less than an instant. Yep, TURNING ON A LIGHT is the fastest thing I can think of." The interviewer was very impressed with the third answer and thought he had found his man. "It's hard to beat the speed of light" he thought.

Turning to the fourth and final man, the interviewer posed the same question. The last man replied, "After hearing the three previous answers, it's obvious to me that the fastest thing known is diarrhea." "What!?" said the interviewer, stunned by the response. "Oh I can explain," said the fourth man. "You see the other day I wasn't feeling so good and I ran for the bathroom. But, before I could THINK, BLINK, or TURN ON THE LIGHT, I had already shit my pants!"

He got the job.><

[rich]

:hahaha: :ph34r: :thumbsup:

A good one, asheera, though, in real life I doubt he would have got the job,

having a medical problem of incontinence. <_< . If you were doing the hiring,

would you have hired that person? :huh:

[sahyo]

:D hehe...
but did "the other day I wasn't feeling so good
and I ran for the bathroom" imply "incontinence"
would keep happening? ;)

[rich]

such happenings happen on rare occasions. :unsure:
or:

Listen my children,

and you will hear,

The midnight ride

of Paul Revere,

the 50 yard dash,

to the bathroom door,

Oh oh, too late,

it went on the floor.

P.S. The author of this post, recently underwent such experience.
After interviewing myself, I didn't hire myself for the job. ;)

[DavidS]

Originally posted by asheera@Feb 1 2004, 11:33 AM
The last man replied, "After hearing the three previous answers, it's obvious to me that the fastest thing known is diarrhea." "What!?" said the interviewer, stunned by the response. "Oh I can explain," said the fourth man. "You see the other day I wasn't feeling so good and I ran for the bathroom. But, before I could THINK, BLINK, or TURN ON THE LIGHT, I had already shit my pants!"

He got the job.[/color]
Now, that's 'scat·ology' (as 'distinguished' from, or, because of the 'contrast', you might even say "as 'opposed' to" eschatology). Eeeeuuw! I guess, like I said, it's a matter of chacun a son gout! :lol:

[sahyo]

hehehe

does matter sca'escha'tology when happening diarrhea?

:D

[sahyo]

After interviewing myself, I didn't hire myself for the job.


:lol:

:D

[DavidS]

Originally posted by asheera@Feb 3 2004, 03:11 PM
does matter sca'escha'tology when happening diarrhea?
The answer to that would depend on what set and order of 'values' the 'subject' person was soulfully-oriented to 'focus' on at the time, it seems to me, as well as what kind of 'diarrhea' is being ex·press·ed and ex·peer·ienced, of course.

'Mattering' and 'not mattering' related to 'diarrhea' not same for every one or same one every time.

[rich]

think they are talking about :ph34r: russian diarrhea. <_< :hahaha: :o

[sonrisa]

this topic sounds like a load of sh*t to me. :D

[Mental Gremlin]

reading the posts it occurs to me that there is a strong resemblence to the way the conversation has gone and a Zen koan...

[rich]

Well, small things amuse small minds.


:think: :idea: :tao:

[a random hack]

small things ensure small minds... :lol:

[rich]

perhaps, that could be for sure, but still, I am not too sure! perhaps! :rofl: :applause: :dunno:

[a random hack]

:lol:

[Mental Gremlin]

sentient life is not restricted to humans in buddhist belief
what about animals and plants and those beings existing as gods
and those beings being tormented in hell?

[sonrisa]

well dolphins are sposed to be intelligent, & there are apes who can type on pc keyboards....

[a random hack]

damn, my secret is out :lol:

[sahyo]

:goodlaugh:

[sonrisa]

I was looking thru some NY gallery's catalogue & they were selling dinosaur doo-doo for $150.

-_-

who would wanna spend $1.50, much less $150, on that, uh, crap?


check this out-

:reallysad:

little zoloft dude

[a random hack]

:blink: thought this was the post-zoloft dude, but the one time i took it, was just like a mild speed, kept me up all night... <_<

s'funny what people will pay for crap, ain't it? :lol: :)

poopie - not for sale tho (http://www.emory.edu/COLLEGE/ENVS/Research1/ichnology/Dinocopro.htm)

pity they don't have a 'how coprolites are formed' diagram (http://www.twoguysfossils.com/dino3.htm) :duh:

[sonrisa]

thank you for sharing that, Random

:D

[sonrisa]

Random, you need a diagram to find out how coprolites are formed?!!!?
:shakehead:

[a random hack]

who said i need it?:D:lol:

[sonrisa]

:D

y'all don't have the little zoloft dude down under?

click here then (http://www.angelfire.com/alt/distracted)

:badgrin:

[a random hack]

think i need zoloft after all those never ending popups :lol:

guess that's the 'before' picture :)

[Buddhafly]

Hello.
"I vow to save all sentient beings, even though there are no separate individualities!" What an interesting quote!
Dailyzen is such a wonderful and well designed website.
This leads me to mention what a wonderful and well designed website Thebigview is too! :)

[Micheal]

We all get to play in the giant bathtub of life. :)

Peace
-Micheal

[VossistArts]

Originally posted by rich@Feb 2 2004, 03:40 AM
:hahaha: :ph34r: :thumbsup:

A good one, asheera, though, in real life I doubt he would have got the job,

having a medical problem of incontinence. <_< . If you were doing the hiring,

would you have hired that person? :huh:
it seems kind of pointless to go on about this speculating whether or not he wouldve got the job in real life. Whether this story was taken from real life or likely not, he got the job. Maybe the hiring person just had a great sense of humor or maybe the job more required an abstract creative thinking abilility than a practical logical one . who knows. we do know he did get that job, whatever the case.